Myrmydon
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Posts
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Let me put this in a different perspective:
Although I cannot STAND speed running (particularly TFs) missions and such, I cannot STAND having Leaping as my travel power on a character that has had Fly since I3. I will suffer the lesser evil to obtain the desired result.
(yes, I know I can "buy a jetpack", however, a jetpack isn't part of concept, no matter how much I try to go with it.) -
Quote:If I want IO sets to kit out a character (I believe I have 4 in total fully IO'd), I will choose the system that works best for me with the least amount of hassle (A-Merits system), whether I like it or not. I would say that's how the majority of people will operate.Originally Posted by Werner
I think that's a legitimate point, though limited by all the various ways we have now of "buying" items. You can earn and buy things with regular merits. You can convert regular merits to alignment merits and buy even shinier things with alignment merits. You can play the game any way you want and buy things with influence, since nearly all aspects of the game rain influence. You can play the game in certain ways to get the actual drops yourself. Some of these ways DO take significantly longer than other ways, though, so I can understand how you might feel like you're being forced to play a certain way.
Do I wish the system was better? Hell YES!
Will I quit the game over an over-priced IO that's going to let me keep my concept and my IO build? Hell NO! Don't think I'll bother getting one again since the number needed to get 2 of them will let me kit out whole characters with multiple billion Influ builds for confetti levels of influence ( I give away a lot to friends and such, so I only keep from 300 mill to 1 billion liquid at any given time).
I have my system in place to make maximum use of the merit system (Although, I think I'll leave some villians redside earning A-Merits for the sake of mission variety.
) My complaint is the system could use a revamp when an inferior PvP unique costs 30 times more than its PvE "counterpart". It could use a complete revamp, to be honest.
See, the whole thing has reduced my thinking of it to work, something I really hate to do in a game. And I have met many more people in the game that feel the same way i do than I have seen posters in here telling me "that is how MMOs work". Yes, well, men used to kill each other with shard slices of metal until someone came up with gunpowder percussion, then things changed. Everyone used to talk on home phones until cell phones became accessible and things changed.
People use to play basic video games on computers until MMOs came along and things changed.
Our Invention system could use one here.
Funny, I don't mind the Incarnate system being tougher or longer to run through.Quote:If it's any consolation, I feel the same way about incarnate levels and forced teaming. Well, it is forced in I19 if you want to advance, but I hear rumor you can do it solo in I20 - it just takes this side of forever. But hey, I just said I like slow advancement, and it looks like solo incarnate will be really, really slow, so maybe I should be happy. *chuckle* Its supposed to be our endgame, however, I wish there was more to do with it at release. Two trials for four abilites...
Although, I must admit, it looks like the incarnate system is going to wind up as alt-friendly as the rest of the game and, just possibly, a better reward system than the current "trash-drop" Invention system we have in place currently.
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Quote:<--- Does not use Purples (except one to-hit debuff proc in Boxing) and wants the Gladiator to switch back from Leaping to Fly (most efficient build setup at the moment requires a PvP IO, unfortunately, but I have flown on that character since I3 and can't stand any other mode of travel on it).Originally Posted by Roderick
Yes and no. The game is not "work". However, it is, and should be, challenging to get the best, and even the better, equipment in a game. And I'm not "sliding into" that group - I've always had this opinion of games.
Have you ever played a video game where your character starts out with top-tier equipment? Usually, you end up defeated by some overpowered enemy and stripped of the equipment after a few fights. Before this happens, you run around happily one-shotting entire groups of enemies, with no risk to yourself.
Where's the fun in that?
Have you ever played any Final Fantasy game? If you were just handed Excalibur, Masamune, Murasame, Ultima Weapon, Ultima, Genji Armor, or any of the other unique, high-powered equipment, without having to solve a puzzle, work your way through a dungeon, or defeat a boss creature, would there be as much satisfaction or enjoyment?
If you want to just walk in to a room and beat up a million bad guys, go play Gauntlet. If you want to advance and improve your character, be it through levels, equipment, or improving skills/abilities, that's when you choose to play an RPG.
CoH is an RPG. I want my character development and advancement, thanks.
<--- Uses level 35 IO sets with the minimums for uniques to be able ot make the most use of set bonuses and powers while exemplared into the level 32+range (Taskforce and exemplar sweet spot)
The correction I would suggest does exactly that, give you development and advancement more fitting to the genre, to be honest. -
Quote:For me, I hate the perception I have of feeling like I have to play a certain enforced way (tip missions, market madness) to get a certain result rather than being able to play the game the way I like (teaming, exemplaring and running story arcs) to get the result. Will I still run tips to get Merits for IOs? Yes, because that is the best way (by my perception of things) to do what I want. Pity it has to be that way, but this is how it is today. Maybe if there's enough interest, it could change.Originally Posted by Werner
This.
Though to be fair, I doubt very many people want to create a new character and immediately be purpled out. Maybe some PvPers (certainly not all), but that seems a legitimate issue there, because some want CoH to be more like a first person shooter with equal and near immediate access to the best equipment so that it is mere skill that determines the outcome. In the PvE game, though, I suspect almost everyone likes character advancement. The argument is more about how fast this character advancement should be. Some people like it fast, some medium, and some slow. I'm in the slow camp. But there's nothing strictly wrong with the fast camp, other than that they never seem to recognize that other camps are legitimate. Kind of drives me nuts. (Edit: Mind you, the fast camp may feel exactly the same way about the slow camp.)
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Quote:100 million to Phillyboy if he can get the reference (without Google or assistance).Originally Posted by Myrmydon
Evidently, Mr. Silas is an educated man. Now, I really hate him...
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Quote:Originally Posted by Silas
Corr cheerleader retard crew?
Haha, what?
Edit: Oh right I forgot your thing about the word corr
corrcorrcorrcorrcorr
Evidently, Mr. Silas is an educated man. Now, I really hate him... -
Seeing "Corr" is akin to an all-day Jimmy Buffet session, but you already know that...
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Quote:Bite...your ...tongue...Originally Posted by BlackTabby
Sinny needs some anti aging cream
but otherwise great -
Quote:#1. See Aneko's post.Originally Posted by Rastafari_Man
"Canadian" wierd.
#2. I'm going to let you choose the weapons over this unacceptable insult... -
Quote:Originally Posted by Silas
Speaking of which, FF is best on bad teams.
Only bring the Force Field/Dual Pistols out to team with Silas and the "Corr" cheerleader retard crew. Got it... -
Quote:Well, to be fair, they did only have roughly 16 people working on this game at the time.Originally Posted by Terror1
The pvp drop rate system and weighting is poorly designed.
Also i agree with Intrinsic. It is past time for a change, though, isn't it?
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Quote:You're sliding into the "game is work" group with this idea. What I want to propose is making the game something that doesn't (feel like it) require farming or any of those supposed abarrent behaviors. (I say "supposed" because, while the Devs swear up and down that they hate farming, they certainly go out of their way to make it something we all have to do if we want anything but SOs in this game, a fact that will be hammered home in I20...)Originally Posted by Roderick
IF spending merits were the only way to get those recipes, then I'd agree with you. But it's not. We have the market.
The junk is going to be generated. Whether it's via normal play, farming, merit rolls, it really doesn't matter. A lot of copies are going to be deleted or vendored. But a lot will make it to the market.
Those 124 Ghost Widow triples in my screen shot up above? I bought them. All. I spent about 50 million total; a third of what one of those Luck of the Gamblers cost. Most of them were far below vendor price. And there's already more on the market.
I saw no problem with the system when all we got is what we were given by the drop tables (Well, except for the divided markets, but that's a different discussion). When they added AE and Tickets, then Reward Merits and now Alignment Merits, they've just given us more and more ways to get what we want, easier with each step.
When the devs flag PVP recipes as untradable, and prevent them from dropping in PVP, so that the only method of getting them is to spend a ridiculous amount of Merits, I'll agree with you. So long as they're available on the market for a price determined by a combination of their availability, their desirability, and the price people are willing to pay for them, I have no complaint.
Before A-Merits, I bought a Trap of the Hunter Pool C for 200 Merits, because none were put in the market at the level I wanted. Do I regret it? No. I got something I wanted for a price I was willing to pay for it. No IO is mandatory. If you want one, you have to figure out how much it costs and pay that, or go without. There is no flaw in this system. -
Quote:I agree.Originally Posted by Intrinsic
The random world drop loot system has its advantages and disadvantages, I understand that, and for the most part I'm fine with that system. The problem is that the disadvantages of the old reward system are being carried over into newer and different merit systems. And "that's just the way we've always done it" is a terrible reason for perpetuating any system or process. As it stands now, the notion of spending 200 r-merits on your Ghost Widow's Embrace is about as appealing as spending 25 a-merits on my Javelin Volley. Don't you see room for improvement there?
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Quote:You'll have to use the PvP channel if you're looking for that...Originally Posted by Phillyboy
Hey, at least it's not WoW (which I just jumped ship from), where I would already have been called a noob, told to die, and otherwise screamed at in 4chan dialect by a poop-eating Morlock that hasn't seen the sun in years . . .
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Quote:Actually, if they changed the random drop system into a merit system (or something similar to shard drops) and allow people to create whatever they like instead of getting trash drops, the idea of "crap rares" vanishes. This system would allow for people to play whatever they like (be it tips, TFs, story arcs, etc..) and still make use of from 10-50 if they wanted to.Originally Posted by Roderick
My point is that there always has been, and always will be, "crap rares". They will take too much work relative to their perceived value to obtain when you want one, and if you get one by accident while trying to get something else, you'll feel ripped off.
Before crap PVP IOs, there were crap Purples, like Fortunata Hypnosis.
Before crap Purples, there were crap Rares. (Remember getting Trap of the Hunter rares for TF complete rewards? I do!)
Before crap Rares, there were crap Hami-Os; the ones you couldn't GIVE away, let alone trade for the ones you want.
Even in issue 0 it existed. Back then, Training and Dual Origins went all the way to 50. The only way to get a guaranteed SO was to buy it (if you know where the stores are. They're not marked on your map), kill an AV for the guaranteed SO drop or take one as a TF completion reward. Imagine the frustration if you come away from a 5 hour TF with an Intangibility SO for your reward.
Rewards are the carrot on a stick to keep us playing. If we get all the awesome stuff right away, then a significant portion of the playerbase gets bored and leaves. That's a bad thing for a pay-to-play game.
The only way you're going to see the desirable recipes become "easier" to get is if a WoW-style drop table was implemented: Want a Ragnarok proc? Go defeat Ruladak. There'll be a 10% chance for it to drop each time you defeat him, and it will go to someone on the team - not necessarily you. And it will never drop off anything else.
I spent two to nine hours a day for just over THREE WEEKS doing nothing but running around in circles killing enemies that took over 10 minutes EACH to kill, because I wanted a certain skill recipe that came from nothing else and was Bind on Pickup, so I couldn't even buy it. Oh, and they were all deep grey, so I got NO XP.
I'll take a system that lets me play any content I want, and showers me with drops - some useful to me, some salable, and some others not worth picking up - and gives me the ability to purchase just about anything I want with relative ease, over the other option, any day. -
Quote:It is not the difficulty, it is the tedium involved. That's the difference.Originally Posted by Rylas
1. You're opinion of fun is not the same as everyone else's. Some people think the feeling of accomplishment is fun. Sure, you may think running in a race with a paraplegic is fun because you can win, but you're not really making an accomplishment. What you're suggesting is roughly on level with that.
2. You fail to understand how MMO's survive. If everyone gets the best material without working for it, more often then not, they will get bored with the game that much faster. But, if they had to work at it for a while, and had something they've invested time into, they're more likely to stick with it.
Now, you may not like that MMO's make things "harder" because they want you to keep paying money, but without making money, MMO's shut down. I would prefer this one stays open as long as possible. The way it's managed right now (in regards to the OP) works very well for me. -
Quote:Heh, you look at this game as work, I look at it as entertainment. I doubt we'll ever see eye-to-eye on this.Originally Posted by galadiman
PLEASE learn about Supply and Demand.
1. How bad do you want it? That's DEMAND.
2. How many are available? That's SUPPLY.
3. How good are they? Well, that's DEMAND.
Re: 1 - you have a 'concept', so that concept will cost you. In some cases, opportunity cost (a less optimal power for RP purposes, for example.) In other cases, Cold Hard CASH MONEY.
Re: 2 - Those blasted PVP IO Farmers are a buncha jerks, I know. [I have it on good intel that they also like to eat kittens.] I wonder what would happen if they were to suddenly... Disappear. Poof! Result: Supply of PVP IOs goes to nearly 0. Demand stays the same. End result? PRICES THROUGH THE ROOF. 3B for an IO? Try 12 Billion on for size!
Re: 3 - That 3% +Def IO is worth... well, it's unique, so you can only slot one. There's only one other IO in the game that provides the same global benefit. AND THE PVP IO EXEMPS FROM 1 TO 50. Allow me to repeat that. IT EXEMPS FROM 1 TO 50. So slotted at 50, IT WORKS ALL THE TIME, 100% OF THE TIME. Running Sister Psy? It's Workin! Why do you think the Steadfast +Def Special is barely worth 1% as much??
PLEASE. Get a grip. The AMerit prices are right on the money, so to speak. The Eeebil Farmers, contrary to your belief, are making it possible for these IOs to be on the market in the first place. And the Kool Aid that you refer to is people dealing with how the system is set up, rather than crying foul because it does not jibe with your playstyle.
Think of the Glad Armor +Def IO as the Lamborghini of the entire IO set. You want a Lamborghini? You certainly don't need a Lamborghini. But if you want it because it goes with your pinkie-ring, by all means, just pony up the $350K, and it's all yours. Can't afford it? Get to work!
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Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
To look at things another way, how long could you grind away at game content before you picked up the specific drop you we're looking for? I'd guess that the amount of time is, on average, more than what is required to collect the needed amount of A-Merits.
I know, I know, you're still right even if this punches holes in your reasoning.
I'll agree that its better now than it used to be, however, just spraying some air freshener over a cess pool doesn't make it something you want to sit next to during lunch... -
"I disagree, and so do all right-thinking people"
I like it, I think we'll go with that one.
Quote:Why? Because, overall, it would make the game more fun.Originally Posted by Fulmens
Go ahead. Explain why the rarest thing in the game should become dramatically easier to acquire. For extra credit, explain why the last thing they did to make it easier (in inf terms, AM's dropped the price from around 3.5-4 billion to 2.5 billion) was not nearly enough.
Extra credit: Because if they reworked the Invention system just a touch more, they would have a better system than any other "trash-drop" MMO system. -
You're lucky, Oath. Mod 5 will not respond to PM replies when he's hammered one of your posts.
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Welcome to Champion, Phillyboy. If you have any questions, feel free to give me a yell @Myrmydon.
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Quote:Agreed.Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
When keeping mobs out of melee actually means anything (which it doesn't, it's counterproductive)
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A Mon-El avatar is a very good sign. Welcome to City of Heroes.
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Quote:Originally Posted by mauk2
....
I strongly suspect that the huge majority of PVP IO's are not gained via 'PVP' at all, but rather via AFK pvp farmers.
A situation which drives me to distraction.
People who are NOT EVEN AWAKE running overnight farms to get the MOST VALUABLE REWARDS IN THE GAME.
Yeah, while I am happy that the PVP IO's exists (because I farm them up using tips) it enrages me that people get the same rewards much faster and easier while they're not even LOOKING at the damn game, much less playing it.
Call it my pet peeve.
See, this is the kind of behavior the current system promotes. -
Quote:I bet there would be more joy if they made the system better than what we have now.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
You can just buy the less valuable ones with inf. There are plenty available and the people who have them, have no trouble parting with them. Anyway the system looks deliberately screwed up so players can have the joy of beating it.