MrQuizzles

It's technically a debuff, but practically soft control.

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I of the electric blaster school have a complaint. Electric defenders drain more end than blasters. So no, there are cases where blasters get hosed.

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But blasters really don't get hosed because the increased damage that blasters get by far outshines the increased drain that defenders get. The main purpose of these blast powers is to do damage. The -end is a rather minor secondary effect in all but one power (short circuit).

Now, if there was an Electric Blast power that did nothing but drain endurance, and defenders did it better, then you'd have an argument.

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It seems almost like controllers were put together as an afterthought

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They were. They were added late in the beta process, after the other four ATs had been worked on for some time. Granted, they probably existed in some stage of design before we heard of them, but there's no question that they became fully formed later than the other ATs, and were still being finalized when the other ATs existed basically as we know them now.

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Which brings up an interesting point. Over the course of CoH, defenders have seen relatively little change. Sure, powersets were changed here or there, but the AT as a whole has hardly changed at all. Instead, everything's been changing around defenders.

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...how do Illusion and Weather powers fit together without coming up with some convluted explanation?

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Ghost Pirates.

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Lol, yes! Now if only heroes could be pirates.

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Explaining why you made a mistake does not excuse the fact that you flat out told prominent members of the community that they were lying.

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what exactly is a 'prominent member of the community"?

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That would be defined as Erratic.

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... don't know if the game could support this...

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I'm almost 100% sure gravity powers' secondary effect is -speed, but no -recharge.

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Tar Patch, too, is -speed but no -recharge.

Looking at blaster issues? He just started to scratch the surface of defender issues. He looked at our list, responded to each and every point, and by doing so revealed some relatively major imbalances that basically end up with defenders getting shafted. Look at his post in the defender forums for details.

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All Buffs and Debuffs throughout the game are applied to the Base effect, not the Enhanced Effect.

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This kind of bugs me. It basically makes those powers very ineffective in pvp, with crits, aim and buildup powers almost completely negating the debuff. They basically only work against other squishies that don't have massive damage buffs.

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But everyone has massive damage buffs through enhancements.

I'm also not so sure about the whole "all debuffs work off of base damage" deal. Defense debuffs? To-hit debuffs?

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*Statesman reads whole thread. Nods his head. Shrugs.Goes to lunch.*

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He should watch out for the Ninja I placed in the fridge *evil laugh*

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How ever Short Curcuit's primary function is end drain.

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It largely depends on whose hands it's in, really. For defenders, the endurance drain is enough to make it it's primary function. For blasters, the end drain is smaller, but it doesn't do bad damage at all. It does quite a bit of damage, actually.

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So lets take a look at debuffs in powers primarily debuffing in nature in controller primaries. Smoke, for example. Smoke is a controller primary: should its debuffing effects be larger in magnitude than all other debuffs in all other defender secondaries? Would you consider that a mandatory balancing requirement?

Ice control is loaded with slows. Should they be stronger than all other defender debuffs not in defender primaries?

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These two examples aren't the best ones because the answers to both are "they already are".

Smoke is better at to-hit debuffing than any one defender secondary power. It's auto-hit, and has a greater value than Dark Blast.

Nothing beats Ice Control at slows, nothing.

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But as I said, the rosetta stone is electric blast drain. If my view is correct, defenders should have higher end drain for electric blast than electric blast blasters. If yours is correct, then electric blast blasters should have higher end drain than electric blast defenders. Which one do you believe is proper, and which one do you believe best reflects the devs intentions?

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Defenders are supposed to be the best at buffing/debuffing, so it makes sense in that portion, but the -end in electric blast is a minor secondary effect when compared to the main purpose of the powers (damage).

Blasters do 1.5 times as much damage as defenders do, and their blasts cost a bit less. Overall, I'd say that more than balances out the higher endurance drain that defenders get.

What we're seeing here is when a power's primary function is control, and it's being done better by another AT's secondary.

So I guess this exposes a rather large flaw in the AT modifiers system. I hope that powers can be changed individually for each AT, or else this will require a far more complicated fix.

The devs have always said

Primary>Secondary>Power Pool

And let's put it like tihs: Controller secondaries *should* be working at 80% of defender primaries instead of somewhere between 80 and 110%.

Whoops!
Nearly forgot to add a thanks for taking your time to look at this large list of stuff. It's much appreciated

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* Bug: Petrfying Gaze power description and combat messages suggest that the power reduces the targets defense, which does not happen. (Dysmal)


This is apparently fixed.

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Yeah, it was fixed when they removed the defense debuff from the combat text, the short help, and the long description...

About Black Hole, the power everyone loves to hate:

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It's a very situational power. It can take an cause havoc on enemy teams unprepared for it -- imagine a group of 6 who suddenly don't have a Tanker and a Defender. It becomes a 6 on 4 battle, assuming equal sides. Basically, if your team is aware of it and works it into a strategy, it can be effective.

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For 7 seconds (in PvP, it's 15 for PvE)...about half of which you spend in the animation. Not to mention that the immobilize is incredibly easy to resist in PvP. Phasing a tank is great until you realize he's following you around with KO blow on autofire, waiting to unphase and beat the crap out of you.

And when can we get the name of "Intangibility Duration Enhancements" changed? People are thinking that they actually enhance intangibility duration. Can we get the magnitude of these powers a bit more clear-cut, too? Nobody even knows they have magnitudes until they fail at phasing something. Also, when you fail at phasing something, it turns invisible. I brought a lot of this stuff up a little over a year ago in my frequently-necro'd post "Black Hole is Still Broken..."

I believe the best suggestion I've heard for the power is to just take it out of Dark Miasma and replace it with nothing. Dark Miasma would have only 8 powers, and people couldn't mistakenly take Black Hole any more.

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Looking at the other -Resistance powers (Enervating Field, Sonic Siphon, etc) none of them stack with themselves. The only ones that do seem to stack are Sonic Attacks debuffs, which have very short durations.

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Tar Patch stacks with itself from the same caster, as does Freezing Rain. This is probably because both of them are targetted drops, thus dissociating themselves from the user and ignoring the whole not-stacking deal.

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Trick Arrow as a set needs a bit of work. There are a few issues with making the desired changes at this time, but at some point in the future, we will be revisiting this set.

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I'm sorry to hear that this is coming later than sooner, but at least we know it's coming eventually.

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I did a pass on all the End Costs of the Archery Powers and reduced the cost of Snap Shot, Aimed Shot, Fistful of Arrows and Blazing Arrow.

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Hurrah!

People tend to ask me "Have you beaten it yet?" and get very confused when I give them the answer of "you don't beat it, you just keep playing."

I'm pretty sure they're using sleep darts to do that. It's annoying nonetheless.

It's just mean that they gave it to Chimera, too.

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They were thinking something along the lines of "...carnies, Malta AND KoA in one group!"

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OH! OH! So something like a Knives of Artemis Combined Master Zeus Illusionist Titan?! That would be...

(*Red_Zero is has been sent to the Hospital before being able to finish this post.*)

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Oh wait, I already thought of better. I can't believe I forgot about it! It's a seldom-used boss with an interesting backstory behind 'em. They're some of the most deadly things I've seen in this game: The Rikti Magus.

Indeed, they all are.

I thought of a nifty little idea for Black Hole, kind of a mix between Fold Space and Wormhole.

It's a drop power with a relatively short targetting range (maybe 50 feet). You select the drop area and it teleports all the enemies around it to the spot. Add a mag 1 disorient to it, and we're dandy.

It'd make a useful anti-scatter power or a very interesting opener, certainly a valuable enemy-positioning tool.

I know I'd use it. Even if it's situational, it'd sure make one heckuva novelty power.

Edit: Changed the title to reflect current information.

They were thinking something along the lines of "...carnies, Malta AND KoA in one group!"

I swear, this is my most popular thread ever.

Oh yeah, and I'll add that it was nerfed since I first posted this thread. The duration was halved.

I really can't think of a more counterproductive power to use in PvP. I can phase a team's healer- and the rest of their team- for a whole seven seconds!

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I know this is like Blaster "heresy" and I could get excommunicated from the Church of Blastiness, but...

I frequently find myself wishing I had Defiance on my Corruptor. She regularly gets beaten to around 20% health by the end of a fight, and her damage is, well, less than I'm used to. She's also Ice Blast / Cold Domination, which means no ability to self-heal like other Corruptors have.

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And I frequently find myself hoping to Scourge on all of my characters.

Scourge! Scourge! Oh wait, this is my defender...
SCOURGE, DAMNIT! I need the damage!

I never said they wouldn't be empty threats!

Would some threats help speed things up?
We can arrange for that.

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Minimun 10% damage done (as far as i know, may be wrong.)


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10% of base is indeed the -damage floor from debuffs alone.