MrCaptainMan
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Lol no, I just remember it as being a cool part of the film.Originally Posted by Dalghryn
It was a poppy field, MCM. Is there something you're not telling us?
Suppressions one of my faves (anything which gets me singing is good, tbh
).
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Quote:You're speaking pearls of wisdom every post.Originally Posted by macskull
One of the assumptions you are making here is that in order for PvP to be popular with a large number of players, it needs rewards. It should be noted that participation in PvP across all servers was significantly higher before I13 when PvP gave no rewards (no inf, no prestige, no inspirations, no salvage, no chance at a recipe drop). The people who really are interested in PvP will PvP regardless of the rewards, simply because they find competition (or interaction with an opponent that isn't a dumb AI) interesting or fun.
I'd add that the majority of people who really are uninterested in PvP will never become interested, regardless of how good the rewards are. It's simply too much hard work and fiddly build-managing IO-collecting to make it easily accessible enough for a casual PvPer.
My market interaction basically goes like this: I play AE missions until I've got enough tickets for a Pangean Soil or what have you, then I post for 5 inf and immediately get a few million.
That's it.
I'm not making billions, but I don't need to. I'm earning enough to generic IO my toons and I'm plemnty happy with that.
Maybe if I could get a PvP win say one out of every 4 fights, without doing any more 'work' than the equivalent of that 'marketeering', I might PvP more.
This game is supposed to be 'casual-friendly' - it's my experience that its PvP isn't for casual players, however.
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Quote:ROFL.Originally Posted by LISAR
We can fix it by making people PvP at gun point.
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Quote:I'm not sure what you mean by this, but if you're referring to the badges in RV, I say get rid of them.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
"They're not using it, I don't like them, there's not enough of them, take their stuff away." Wonderful attitude there. No, just SKing up everyone that PVPs to 50 would nto be a perfectly fine solution. Think about it for two (maybe three if you REALLY don't get why) seconds. Perhaps you'll figure it out. Do remember to whip that out when the badgers ask for changes as well... oh, wait, that's YOUR community and everything should be perfect for them regardless of numbers, right? Hypocrite.
I should also say that when I suggested this I'd had a glass or two of wine and was only half-serious
When 'you and your ilk' consistently refuse to see why PvEers are annoyed at being forced by stupid game mechanics to run the risk of being ganked by you, we start to feel less bothered about making you happy, yes.Quote:
I'd say "You'll understand if I get a bit pissed off at being told my community doesn't matter and should have things taken away," but I don't think you or your ilk do any longer.
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Quote:Exactly. There are too many zones wasted on the tiny PvP population. RV is the best candidate for taking on ALL the PvP spread across the four zones at present; the others have storylines that could easily be reworked as PvE zones. Use the super-sidekicking tech to bump up everyone to lvl 50 when they enter RV, and RV would be teeming with PvPers.Originally Posted by Nethergoat
The game suffers from having what little PvP there is spread across multiple servers and zones (not to mention the arena).
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Quote:Originally Posted by macskull
If a hypothetical PvP merit system were to be introduced (similar to the bounty system in Siren's Call, perhaps; or maybe simply turn in earned rep for rewards) based on kills, it should only be used to purchase PvP IOs, whether they be random rolls or specific recipes. Shivans and Warburg nukes should be made available via reward merits, not PvP merits, but they should either be a weaker version of the ones found in PvP zones (in the case of the nukes) or only have one use (in the case of the Shivan Shard power). As a PvPer, I wouldn't mind if those rewards were removed from PvP zones entirely (and weakened appropriately) - generally when I go searching for those rewards I'm not looking for PvP in the first place as I want those rewards on my PvE characters, who aren't usually built for PvP.
Summed up my feelings exactly. I'm a PvEer who likes having the Shivans and the nukes. I'm not hugely bothered that they have to be so powerful; if the risk of PvP was totally removed from them I'd be happy to see them nerfed. I like the Shivans and nukes because they do help and they look really cool. If they were lessened in strength, they'd still help, and they'd still look really cool lol.
I also quite enjoy the PvE aspects of getting them too; rescuing the scientists, defeating the turrets. It's the PvP that I find dull and irksome.
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Quote:So how come it's so easy to avoid other players when getting Shivans then? And how come avoiding other players is encouraged by the mechanics of Bloody Bay and PvP?Originally Posted by Shadow State
You can continue to try to claim the PvP interruption are what's broken, but since they are clearly intended to be part of the event you are wrong.
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Quote:They're already PvE content. The PvPers that sometimes get in the way are what's broken, and the excessive strength of the Shivans and nukes compared to the risk.Originally Posted by Shadow State
Then they should be altered in such a way as to better fulfill their intent (giving PvPers non-kill related objectives and rewards to compete over), not re-purposed into PvE content.
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Quote:It's nice to learn that I'm such an outstanding PvPer. Thanks.Originally Posted by Shadow State
That the opponent may forfeit does not negate the fact you are required to submit to PvP in order to get the reward.
That it is neither competitive nor challenging is immaterial to whether or not it is a competition.
If the PvP zone events are deemed to be too easy for the rewards they give I'm fine with that, but don't try to tell me that tag isn't a competition simply because I can make it to base without beating up whomever happens to be It.
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I thought that NCSoft owns the rights to any characters we create, so if your toon was created before the Kickass character, NCSoft could sue them for copyright breaches, perhaps?
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Quote:Originally Posted by ArrowRose
That's really sweet, but your arc is tons of fun even without that.
Keep your win. You earned it.
That's extremely gracious of you, Rose. You really are a very positive element of the MA Community, I hope you know that.
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The similarity is in the evasion. Its inefficient for me to attain the shivans through PvP whereas getting them without is fairly easy.
My gypothetical would still have evasion as a PvP mechanic, so under your 'rules' it'd be an acceptable way to get those mytjical merits, would it?
If you class simply being in the zone as engaging in PvP, then I'm a bloody jedi master, if you look at my ratio of shivans attained to defeats.
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When Issue 17 goes live, this arc's AMAZING SURPRISE ending will change, so I urge you: PLAY IT NOW!
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Quote:I NEVER fight back. I've never experienced a PvPer attack me, and stop before defeating me because I wasn't providing any kind of 'thinking' challenge.Originally Posted by Reiraku
This is a terrible generalization and only reflects a small minority of PvP participants. The majority just want a thinking opponent, regardless if the "lunch" comes free or not. It's not like one goes actively seeking an opponent who doesn't fight back, but rather just another fight.
The equivalent would be like saying PvE'ers liked the old AE exploits because it was like a free 50. Maybe a few vocal ones did, but they were far from the majority.
"But there's no way to tell!" PvPers cry. "I can't risk pausing in case you're the God of PvP and you pwn me!"
Yet PvPers rail aginst any kind of flagging system, which would let them know if their opponents were 'thinking' or not.
Also, if it's more important that the opponent be simply a thinking being and that the 'actively fighting' part is hjust a bonus, that sound like PvPers just like to screw with people.
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Issue 17 fixes the bug with Positron's animation when he's used as a contact in AE. It's completely understandable, because the animation he performs is a bit startling lol.
However, it's slightly unfortunate for my arc Storming Citadel, as i used the animation as a story element.
The arc isn't going to be ruined by the fix; I can easily alter the ending slightly to adjust it to a more 'normal' climax.
However, since quite a few Players have commented specifically on the ending and how cool it is, it's likely in my opinion that it has played a part in the votes the arc gleaned for this.
I don't think it's fair to keep the award since I have to change an element of it which might have been crucial to my win. If my arc's lead had been massive, maybe I could live with it lol, but since it was so close, I think it should be given to the runner up.
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Quote:Imagine if those PvP merits mentioned earlier were also granted per time spent in a PvP zone without getting defeated and without being within range of a drone. They'd be farmed by PvEers who'd go to the zones and hide in weird places, doing their utmost to avoid any PvP, and the PvP community would be up in arms about this 'cheating'.Originally Posted by Shadow State
This is true if and only of you define PvP as the use of powers directly against a player. One could argue that PvP is anytime you compete against another player, which can occur even if you run away from your opponent. Evasion is part of the game in which you get your reward whilst preventing the other player from getting theirs, and as such one could be said to be engaged in PvP the second they set foot in a PvP zone regardless of whether or not they ever see another player.
But this is exactly what happens now with Shivans and nukes. I find it much easoer to get them by utilising timezone differences to avoid PvP. If this is winning at PvP, then I'll start announcing my victories in broadcast just before I leave lol.
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Quote:So how come no PvPers ever let me 'do all the work', as was suggested up above, and then kill me after I've killed the turrets? It is an assumption, you're right, but I'm just basing it on my own experience. I wonder how many PvP-focussed players can say they always have Shivans and nukes?Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
That would be an assumption, and not a sound one either.
If that PvPer is not slumming in BB at level 50, they still have leveling to do, in which case a Shivan would probably come in handy on occasion.
I am honestly perplexed as to why you're surprised by this, but I guess it illustrates the total disconnect in understanding between the two sides. You don't even remember him, just like you don't remember a hellion you defeated last month. But HE remembers you. If you're ruthless, then I guess it doesn't matter to you wether or not he fought back, or what he was doing. You see the 'fight' as another mob defeated. He may remember it as an annoying, irritating, boring, depressing waste of time. Perhaps he'd been carefully leading the scientists through WB, and was about to get the last code.Quote:
I PvP once in a while, but I play the game for the PvE first and foremost.
That's the mistake the anti-PvP crowd keeps making: Assuming that the PvPers do not care about the rest of the game and only want to make them miserable in PvP zones.
Not every PvPer that attacks you is going to be a rabid noob-ganking sociopath who just wants a chuckle at your expense. A lot of them are people that you would enjoy teaming with in a non-PvP setting.
Like me. I don't ask permission before I attack someone any more than I ask a Hellion for permission to attack them. I'm pretty ruthless in PvP, but I'm a decent guy to team with in the rest of the game. But, to an anti-PvPer that I attack I'm forever a "dirty, cheapshotting PvPer" and they never give me a chance on a team. I've had people kick me from teams before because I showed up on their player notes as someone who attacked them in a PvP zone 6 months prior. This was before a single mission was ever run and they had no idea what kind of teammate I was going to be. They just formed an opinion because I happened to attack them one time....I didn't even remember them.
It doesn't matter wether or not he's justified in feeling aggreived by your actions. You don't have to agree with it, but you should understand it. Then you won't be upset when you're kicked form teams by people you've defeated in PvP before. Think of it as an extension of the fight lol.
I have met pleasant, polite, helpful PvPers. I've been assisted by a stalker in getting the turrets down for a Shivan on the agreement that afterwards I'd return from the Hero base and let him kill me (he was probably as surprised to find me return as I was that he agreed to it in the first place), I've had a brute wait for me to get a heavy before killing me while I stood there (which actually helps get the heavies faster), I've met villains in WB who were going for nukes themselves who said 'hi' and then stayed away from me. The problem is, all these experiences came across as pleasant for me because I can't stand PvPing and so my aims at the time were to avoid PvP.Quote:
But it makes it easier for the anti-PvP crowd to vilify the PvPers if they paint them as all being rude, mean, and petty.
The PvE rewards in the PvP zones DO NOT do what they're supposed to very efficiently. They're a lure for noobs, but only to the zone; not to PvP.
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Hello! I'd say 'welcome!', but you've been here ages obviously.
But nice to see that our game has players so far away (I'm in Poland, but use the NA servers too).
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Quote:This would result in PvPers having Shivans and nukes , unless they could save up for IOs too, I guess, and it would reduce the amount of Shivans and nukes in the PvE-only community. Not eliminate, because people would just team up with an SG-mate using an opposing faction's toon and farm the merits.Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
Just as a thought exercise:
The Devs introduce "PvP Merits".
Defeat a player of equal or higher level to earn one.
Shivans and Nukes cost 10 PvP merits each, and are no longer available the old way.
What would be your (the generic 'your') reaction?
Personally, I have a number of conflicting but interesting thoughts from this scenario.
This still wouldn't incentivise the significant proportion of the playerbase for whom NOTHING will ever make them enthiusiastic about PvP.
I'd be willing to bet that it would also reduce the numbers of 'cheap kills' that the PvP community gets at present from PvEers going for these things.
It's my solid belief that PvPers like things the way they are because they like a free lunch.
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Quote:They've doubled the filesize for Issue 17, Rose!Originally Posted by ArrowRose
Thanks for posting this. You made me smile after a long day at work
I don't plan on deleting or unpublishing arcs. I just am planning to wait and see what happens before making many changes. Who knows, maybe I will get extra space so I can make winged monkeys.
Winged monkeys please!
...Could you squeeze in a take on the sleepy sleepy field, maybe"
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Quote:I have obtained Shivan shards dozens of times. I've NEVER been killed by anyone AFTER defeating the turrets. On a few occasions I've been killed WHILE fighting the turrets, leading me to believe that this particular PvE reward is irrelevbant to the PvPer.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
How do you get Shivans? You travel around the zone clicking on meteors for the shard you need to combine with the other 5, then you defeat a few turrets to unlock another clicky.
There's an easier way......Let someone else do the legwork and then kill them for the shards after they take out the turrets. And, voila! You just obtained a PvE reward through PvP.
Mostly in BB, the occasions I've been attacked have been during the runaraound to get each shard sample before heading to the firebase.
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Quote:Bolded the part that I've often thought, too.Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
The only problem I have with the idea of gaining the Nukes and Shivans through PvP is that, generally speaking, the people who are actually trying to PvP aren't interested in Shivans or Nukes. Then again, it really does seem like the only PvPer that a PvEer will run into is the kind who is PvPing because the devs took away his ability to drag Giant Monsters to Portal Corp. Not saying that there aren't decent PvPers out there, it's just that it seems like they are off on their own server, only playing against other decent PvPers.
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Quote:Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I would LOVE if people would stop with the generalities. Yet there you go again...Can you stop making generalities, please. I'm a PvEer who'd be quite happy to see Shivans and Nukes only obtainable through direct PvPing, as long as they were then only usable on Players. I'm a badger too, but after a short while trying to farm a rep badge, I happily gave up any desire to have it lol, so PvP-only badges wouldn't faze me one bit.Quote:Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Right, there'd be the "Wah! We cannot get Shivans/Nukes/stealth powers or badges without PvPing! The devs are making us PvP!"
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Quote:You aren't factoring in different people's definitions of 'reward', and what they consider the limit of justifiable 'work' they're prepared to do in order to get that reward.Originally Posted by SwellGuy
So truthfully there is more reward to PvPing in the PvP zone than not.
So your assertion that the reward is for avoiding PvP is wrong. The reward is in not losing in PvP.
I consider shivans and nukes to be a reward.
I consider the PvE hoops I have to jump through (downing turrets, leading scientists out of the web etc) to be a more than fair amount of 'work' to go through, including any PvE combat with mobs I encounter whilst doing it, considering their strength.
I consider ANY PvP where my opponent fights me to be too onerous to bear. At that point the rewards cease to be of sufficient value to me to bother trying to get, irrespective of the fact that they are very powerful.
I do not consider PvP IOs valuable enough to make me want to PvP.
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Thanks for the advice all.
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