Monody

Herm...and malaise would of fit him so well.

Maybe deivos could work. Proto indo european for celestial and conceptual root for demon. >.>

Think I found a way to have an eternal char AND able to have a full personality range, making a fun little character(s)

Name: Eszter Haledor and Malaise
Age: 16 and unquantifiable
Height: 5'4" and usually 6'8"
Weight: 110lbs. and unquantifiable
Origin: Natural
AT: none and katana/willpower scrapper (has almost nothing to do with rp powers, just defines personality a bit)

Appearance:
Eszter is a normal looking English girl, with pale skin, long blond hair with a slight curl to it, and deep green eyes. She is from a wealthy family and dresses accordingly.

Malaise lacks any strong definable trait in it's true form. When it remains in it's weakest bound form, it may take on the appearance of anything but almost strictly takes on the appearance of a tall and thin yet well toned man. Skin pure white with hair to match, the only striking differences in his appearances being the blood red eyes and blood red embellishments upon his clothes, which tend to be a long white coat, but sometimes takes on a more business suit style.

Personality:
Eszter is a relatively serious girl, she will occasionally smile, but normally seems to have a slightly focused expression. Almost always she appears to have the weight of something great and tormenting looming upon her though she always soldiers on.

When threatened she is quick to get out of harms way, but will fight if she finds it a necessity or entirely to trivial to call upon Malaise t do anything.

Malaise is an oddity. In it's "human" form it almost always has a calm slight smirk, as if it knows something no one else knows. Anyone around him tends to get an odd discomfort, as if they are simply there waiting for something terrible to happen.

To a psychic, Malaise normally appears to be a very shallow/simple being. Very few things cross it's consciousness aside from the usual emotions. Digging deeper into this consciousness however will reveal that it is little more than a shell, almost always focused on keeping something else at bay.

This other consciousness that is imprisoned within is the true one. An eternal being captured within an immortal shell. This entity is entirely enveloped with only one desire, to not simply bring chaos, but to bring a much deeper absolute misery to existence.

History:
Malaise "once" was an eternal being which only existed as what we would know as agony and misery. Malaise was the greater aspect of misery though, a complete and enveloping one that created a hell more terrible than any physical torment or simple mental anguish.

Existence as we know it would be an impossible one if this aspect of misery was still a defining trait. As such, the other aspects of eternity found it a necessity to keeo this misery from ever being an absolute.

Malaise was like any other aspect of eternity, having to be an immortal will that was stripped of all other being but it's most absolute form. Temporally, right as Malaise ascended to become eternal, Malaise became bound. The other eternals had devised an immortal shell that would keep Malaise's true form from uniting with the other eternals.

This form became an oddity, as Malaise was an eternal and as such a defining trait to existence, but wasn't able to unite as a defining trait because of an artificial barrier. Malaise wasn't part of existence either, forcing it to idle forever.

After traveling and experiencing many different universes from beginning to end in many different ways, Malaise eventually began searching for a way to break the barrier that bound it.

It's latest plan was to swear servitude to some beings, over time trickling information to them and insights that would push them towards a chaotic being like itself and eventually transcend. At which point that entity would be able to release Malaise from it's imprisonment.

Malaise bound itself to servitude to the Haledors. As such, Malaise endlessly and with zealot like fervor will protect his project from both the eternals and anything within existence which may harm them.

Ta-Da!....anythin' need some work?

Name: Eszter Haledor and Malaise
Age: 16 and unquantifiable
Height: 5'4" and usually 6'8"
Weight: 110lbs. and unquantifiable
Origin: Natural
AT: none and katana/willpower scrapper (has almost nothing to do with rp powers, just defines personality a bit)

Appearance:
Eszter is a normal looking English girl, with pale skin, long blond hair with a slight curl to it, and deep green eyes. She is from a wealthy family and dresses accordingly.

Malaise lacks any strong definable trait in it's true form. When it remains in it's weakest bound form, it may take on the appearance of anything but almost strictly takes on the appearance of a tall and thin yet well toned man. Skin pure white with hair to match, the only striking differences in his appearances being the blood red eyes and blood red embellishments upon his clothes, which tend to be a long white coat, but sometimes takes on a more business suit style.

Personality:
Eszter is a relatively serious girl, she will occasionally smile, but normally seems to have a slightly focused expression. Almost always she appears to have the weight of something great and tormenting looming upon her though she always soldiers on.

When threatened she is quick to get out of harms way, but will fight if she finds it a necessity or entirely to trivial to call upon Malaise t do anything.

Malaise is an oddity. In it's "human" form it almost always has a calm slight smirk, as if it knows something no one else knows. Anyone around him tends to get an odd discomfort, as if they are simply there waiting for something terrible to happen.

To a psychic, Malaise normally appears to be a very shallow/simple being. Very few things cross it's consciousness aside from the usual emotions. Digging deeper into this consciousness however will reveal that it is little more than a shell, almost always focused on keeping something else at bay.

This other consciousness that is imprisoned within is the true one. An eternal being captured within an immortal shell. This entity is entirely enveloped with only one desire, to not simply bring chaos, but to bring a much deeper absolute misery to existence.

History:
Malaise "once" was an eternal being which only existed as what we would know as agony and misery. Malaise was the greater aspect of misery though, a complete and enveloping one that created a hell more terrible than any physical torment or simple mental anguish.

Existence as we know it would be an impossible one if this aspect of misery was still a defining trait. As such, the other aspects of eternity found it a necessity to keeo this misery from ever being an absolute.

Malaise was like any other aspect of eternity, having to be an immortal will that was stripped of all other being but it's most absolute form. Temporally, right as Malaise ascended to become eternal, Malaise became bound. The other eternals had devised an immortal shell that would keep Malaise's true form from uniting with the other eternals.

This form became an oddity, as Malaise was an eternal and as such a defining trait to existence, but wasn't able to unite as a defining trait because of an artificial barrier. Malaise wasn't part of existence either, forcing it to idle forever.

After traveling and experiencing many different universes from beginning to end in many different ways, Malaise eventually began searching for a way to break the barrier that bound it.

It's latest plan was to swear servitude to some beings, over time trickling information to them and insights that would push them towards a chaotic being like itself and eventually transcend. At which point that entity would be able to release Malaise from it's imprisonment.

Malaise bound itself to servitude to the Haledors. As such, Malaise endlessly and with zealot like fervor will protect his project from both the eternals and anything within existence which may harm them.

By your friendly neighborhood...uh...iunno...

Any who.

Eternity defined is a persistent and unchanging state external to time and place. Eternity has also taken on a definition similar to immortality, but mostly only because people who don't take phil or something else where you have to know the difference never really bothered to find out and threw the word about willy-nilly.

Point being, the aspects of eternity and immortality that come into play against or with one another.

Eternity is external to defined and finite existence for the most part. As my pondering went before, eternity and eternal entities would be the only thing to have complete and absolute dominion on a level that is truly irrefutable.

Something to note that almost all if not all eternal entities however would likely be "non-entities" without any trace of any kind of subjective consciousness, instead being the absolute defining factors of existence. These non-entities would lack any desire to alter existence purely because there is no point, existence is much too insignificant.

This would not be the only type of eternal entity however. aspects of being could be locked in an eternal state, unchanging and defined only in the sense that they are what existence is. These eternal aspects would likely be somewhat like blueprints in a grand sense.

There is also the oddities in eternality, entities that obtained it almost prematurely in a sense. These would be entities that ascended in a way, but without a proper understanding or frame of mind to grasp what it was that was happening. Instead of becoming greater than even a god, they achieve an eternal state and their consciousness snaps, basically an information overload leading them into a state of being an eternal pile of flabbergasted mush.

Now to immortality. Pretty much anything can be immortal in any of it's iterations. But there's a difference between something like a human being an immortal and something like God being immortal.

Immortal in and of itself is simply to "exist without defined end". In this way a human could be an immortal, but without something like invulnerability they could still die. God however lacks any definable mortal characteristics. What this gives god is the ability to anything and everything fathomable with existence. Technically god could almost act as if it was a true eternal.

The catch, though, is that it is not existence itself. No immortal can measure up to the abilities of an eternal entity, purely because "eternity defines existence". Even God could be removed entirely from history and mind at the whim of a true eternal. The reason I don't define God as an eternal though it has been referenced as one in the bible is because God displays a change of mind and actions, which acts completely contrary to the idea of eternity.

Any who...immortals...

There is actually a conceivable way to have an eternal that acted as an immortal in a sense, but their existence itself is almost enough of a mind twist to rip existence apart. If an aspect of existence was to trap itself, it would be eternally bound as an immortal entity. What this means is that that aspect of existence would cease to be, except for the entity itself. It would also mean that the entity would experience existence even though it technically isn't part of existence. Pretty much everything this kind of entity does would be at direct conflict with eternity and existence. And it's not like eternity can actually do anything about it because it is in actuality an eternal entity that broke it's own logics from everything else.

The simpler immortals would be entities that have somewhat neared ascension. Undeniably far superior to most entities, pretty much the only trait that separates these beings from immortal entities is they have yet to let go of their very loosely bound temporal existence. They still fall very well under the dominion of of eternals, but are the closest existence bound entity that won't rip existence apart.

To RP one of these things would be....well....damn near impossible. You could actually RP the bound eternal, but they would be so overpowered in every conceivable way no one would want you to play one because nothing you do could be denied...If you were a very careful gamer you might play one that has been bound and it's bound aspect seeks to learn more in order to either free itself, or snuff it's eternal side and become part of existence. This is probably the only case where an eternal could be destroyed, but only by itself...in a very odd logic that I really don't want to have to explain...

Would anyone find it objectionable to me engineering up a bound eternal for use in some RP? Think my own RP attempt failed pretty well. :P Mostly I think because I haven't the foggiest in how to manage a forum RP and also because i chose such an abstract concept that it was hell for anyone to really come up with something that actually fit well...

Not really sure that Eschatological Pantheistic Multiple-Ego Solipsism has any weight against the concepts of a fundamental universe as it's just pointing to the basic mechanics to which existence runs, the conceptual absolutes.

When you look past the fundamental concept, as you really should, I have just been using that idea as a parameter in regards to what something like the null entity can do.

I personally see no conflict between Eschatological Pantheistic Multiple-Ego Solipsism and fundamental mechanics as they exist on two different levels of conceptual interaction.

As far as the grander situation, Not sure if your theory impacts how the null entity works at all, other than it would mean we have an absolute entity that could completely rewrite the entirety of existence five seconds ago just for the hell of it and not even God would be capable of stopping it...more likely God would end up getting changed by the null entity too, as it's an entity entirely separate from existence.

Or since it is external to existence in every logical way, does Eschatological Pantheistic Multiple-Ego Solipsism not count as you are not imagining anything in a general sense?

It was more of a question on what is your point of view on the topic given your experience and the things you perceive more than a "here's a cookie, now eat it!" situation.

And a few of the points that have been made so far seem to take some assumptions...

Like the comment " We, as humans, applied a standard of "giving no more than you take" as equilibrium and therefore some sort of "natural state" humanity fails to achieve. We're by far not the only species on the planet (multi-celled and everything) that takes more than it gives back. Truth be told, because resources are so scarce for other animals, there are few that wouldn't over eat given the opportunity."

As that comment kinda glazes over the reason for those resources being scarce, namely being humans and their wacky antics with species displacement, environmental destruction, movement of species to non-indigenous territories, so on and so forth...

Not meaning to point anything out in particular, it's just a thing to note that one should check what they are typing for anything that may be making assumptions or skipping over things that the writer might just assume as common knowledge.

The issue being, most things are highly dependent on the individuals point of view, and no one experiences the exact same thing to learn what they know. I'm not advocating spelling out all the inane details like you're trying to teach physics to a toddler, but rather just think over what ya got and try to consider it from another person's point of view, as if you don't already know everything that makes up your thought.

I just assumed that people will just keep going until their system breaks down and their nation/world withers to nothin'....Sorry would babble more but not thinking all that well...

Erm...interesting point there Bwerp...

Personally I can't imagine human behavior being part of a greater plan...Much too destructive without the constructive...

From what I've seen humans are much too elastic in how they respond to things. Elastic in that they will keep going till either they have to snap back, or something breaks and it all goes to hell.

((Yeah that's somewhat of what the place is. Having a place like this is about as close to a location I could think of without all the entities just existing within null space as little more than wills butting heads...wouldn't be much fun to visualize..

And an Existence should work. Thanks! ^_^))

((By my own parameters as long as it can be dictated from a logically solid standpoint I have no problem with it. ^_^

The only thing I really would ask is that whenever you do something specific, you explain what it is and the theory behind it. If it's something that has been done all ready, then just reference the past explanation.))

Feeling the serenity being clawed at from within itself, the will seems to change. Steeling it's own resolve, the dream scape around it seems to pull itself inwards and solidify in almost a defensive fashion.

Upon the throne within the white gothic castle, the form from upon the throne seems to fade away into nothing. The land itself growing more refined, the only thing that moves within is the blood red water flowing through the territory into the lake near the center.

((ain't doing too much with this, the will I'm talking about more or less just tried to hole itself up a smidgen while it tries to figure out what it is that just entered the...um....not sure what to call this space without it being a paragraph....))

((Masonic was pretty accurate. I don't want to limit people to using historical figures, but i would like them to create their characters with either the basis of the aforementioned reasonings or he theories themselves dictating their existence.

The setting isn't a very solidly built one as the entities we are most likely to deal with are pretty well beyond standard concepts of physicality, so all the locations we will likely see and visit are either temporally bound places we all know and love or twisted wonderlands of each entities own desires. Kind of like you are invading a dream world of someone else's at times.

Things to expect somewhat depends on the individuals introduced and how their different theories end up clashing and playing out. It's likely to mostly be a conversational RP with a pretty good amount of world breaking/building. I conflicts between characters arise one should note that in the context i desire for this rp, that combat will likely begin to have many oddities that other rp threads will never see. It likely will be hellish to try and track any prolonged comflict so try keeping such things short and direct.

The core of the rp is to see how many differing concepts and theories can collide and interact, which ones can stand the trials and torments of other theories to prove themselves sturdy. As such the only rule I really have for this rp is that everything one does must be logically and soundly explainable through generally viable mediums such as philosophy, theoretical sciences, strong reasoning, and some well refined theological concepts.

basically what Mr_Grey said, the characters should somewhat be the embodiment of particular concepts, philosophies, or ideas.

The general unified setting that all these things meet on isn't a traditionally definable setting. It's more of a void space for the most part, anything therein is the willed manifestation and amalgam of all those present. So the location's looks, feel, and other such things is entirely defined by those present and participating, if one leaves then what they contribute to this setting goes with it.))

((With a twist of the wrist
and a scream and a shout
a broken limb
has come about

Anywhoo...this character is actually immortal as opposed to my other ideas of an eternal will. The key being a few things.

With my original concept relying on the fact that everything can be observed as being made up of many different parts and aspects, the being here has used every method at their disposal to slowly strip away the things that he was made of to try and leave only the clear and perfect eternal aspect.

It went well in the case that many pieces such as the physical aspect could easily be stripped away as well as some of the strongly defined aspects like feelings. He kinda ran into a snag though. As this being stripped more and more away to gain more dominion over itself and everything else, it found that it's more ambiguous aspects were much harder to lock down and remove. The will being one of such things.

Logically speaking for something within existence to become eternal it has to be displaced in a way, unable to mesh back into the rest of existence and therefor forced beyond it. With many things out of the way that might work ok, but the will is a tricky part. Not that a will couldn't be eternal, it's just that to be eternal a will must be singular and consistent. As this individuals will is constantly seeking paths to ascension, fighting with it's own being, and in general still having conflicts with it's own ideas, this being lacks the stability necessary to become eternal. Instead it's stuck on a borderline position between immortality and eternality.

This will resides as an immortal being as it can logically be observed (not as in seen, but as in reasoned). The catch being does have an eternal counterpart which is in fact itself transcended.

Being eternal and interacting with temporal or bound systems means that one exists in a constant state relating to what one does within those bound systems. Like if you make anything at any specific point in time, then from an eternal perspective you are stuck in that state of creation. It is a permanent and unchanging aspect of your being.

Good to note now that it's not possible to be eternal and have a particular form...it would introduce a few too many problems...

The immortal aspect here is the temporal shadow more or less. Basically the situation is that somewhere down the line this entity did fully separate itself from existence to become eternal, "but first it has to get there". It's the problem that it was born as a bound entity and only by stripping away at it's own being does it become external to all bound things. That would be why it has two aspects, it's immortal will and eternal counterpart.

The eternal counterpart gives the immortal will two things, the knowledge that it does eventually reach it's goal and the power necessary to do so. More or less this the eternal aspect reaching out and facilitating it's own manifestation. This means that the immortal will can do things that an eternal will could, like step outside of temporal boundaries and move through and about time as easily as space....and the ability to step outside of space and move about as if...everything was exactly where the entity is at that given moment...

Though as it is not truly eternal yet, the immortal will still experiences a sense of place when it's doing all this. This feeling actually eats away at the "sanity" for lack of a better term of the entity, and as it uses these powers it literally destroys itself. This entity is far beyond any concept of an afterlife...or a life...that if it's being is destroyed it will completely cease to be now and forever with no chance at all of ever coming back.

And goody goody to anyone who interacts, the fact that the eternal will is present in this curiosity actually does little to say that this entity actually does survive, as Deus Ex Machina is something that is actually explainable and likely to be an oft' used thing here...

I can't be the only one loopy enough to have a character doing this kinda stuff >.&gt)

Amidst a crystalline field of snow blanketing a forest of ancient willows and withering maples lies a milky white crystal castle, gothic in style with towering peaks. The only clear contrast within this place being a frozen blood red lake nestled within the woods, threaded and interwoven upwards the nearby mountain face to wrap around and occasionally cascade over the castle which itself is dotted with blood red windows and decorations. In spite of the blood seemingly spurting forth from the earth itself, the aura of the scene when standing in it's presence leaves one feeling empty of emotion and calm as if nothing could harm you. A land of hauntingly beautiful serenity, no war made, no harm felt, yet the serenity is left with a doubt as one looks on, as if the onlooker sees something on the horizon that brings an omen of destruction. They can do nothing however and only watch as this destruction gets closer, the serenity they feel overwhelms their ability to react, instead welcoming their inevitable demise....

Those that reside within this land know of this being only as the "words without a voice" scratching away at their every thought. The only thing that compels them to stay being the disturbing perfection and calmness that penetrates their very soul. Swearing servitude to an entity that they are not even truly aware of, all those that reside here continue their life as if they had never become lost within this hellish beauty...

This is a place of only one will, a will not to conquer or infect, yet neither to mend or protect. The will of this land seeks only ascension. To become the defining trait of existence itself and lord over even the gods.

Lording over this land is one man. Not so much of a man though as an entity. Many years ago sacrificing his own mortal coil and feeling to become something more...and less...no one has ever seen what this person has become. To look upon this being would yield no report, as one's gaze seems never able to settle correctly upon them, all detail distorted or missing. Seldom can one even define a basic form this entity resides within, as if it doesn't really exist at all. As it sits upon it's throne unflinching as it waits, reaching out it's will beyond it's nightmarish dream of a domain into the universe...seeking another key to ascension...

((Oki...so...to put it in a cheesy fashion, this is my dream. The concept being my idea from before, where all those that want to participate may choose to do so in their own way so long as it can all be logically defined by philosophy, theoretical science, and somewhat theology. What I just introduced is more or less my character and their personal setting. Will add the basic theory and concept for this entity later, as It's kinda late and I need to sleep. ))

That actually sounds kinda fun, also a bit open to humor, in good taste too. ^_^

I personally am almost inclined to put it from the point of view that none of the characters inherently have any kind of powers at all. Instead they rely on their own knowledge of universal mechanics through philosophy, theoretical science, and possibly theology that they end up being able to manipulate the universe/existence and transcend into becoming something more...or less...depending on how you look at it.

Yeah, I'm figuring on using my concept of an eternal null-entity, if ya don't have a char just make one up using yer theories. >.>

I may have to take a not always participating approach with the null-entity as it's kinda pushing at the end-all be-all of existence...seeing at it dictates what existence even is, every dimension and every plane of existence....kind of a bit much for one thing...

Can also use my character that's more of an eternal will, the not-so-omnipotent-but-still-could-ream-most-theological-gods one...

Was thinking over some of the stuff that had been conversed over in the "a short philosophy experiment" thread, and was kinda interested in the idea of seeing how some of the different concepts hinted at and referred to could be used.

My idea here somewhat was to have the base plot more or less be that those participating would all have methods and concepts driving their efforts to transcend what they currently are in one way or another. Kinda like a story about those who become gods in a way I guess.

The defining factor to this rp would be that everything one does has to be explainable through philosophy, theoretical science, and if it's logical enough possibly theology. Other schools of thought are open to consideration and suggestion, as well you may refer to other schools of thought as long as it's kept logically coherent.

One thing to note here is that we would likely be dealing with characters far beyond most in terms of power and suggestive capabilities, and god-moding might actually have to be addressed in that if someone does something and it is perfectly explainable by the prior mentioned fields of thought then it is passable, but that does not mean that action is absolute if there is a counter theory or point that another may put up to nullify or alter that prior act.

So...suggestion is an rp based on serious reasoning skills and directed in a way that we can observe how differing thoughts can collide and intermingle as we face different concepts such as morality, deism, existence/reality, etc.

I kinda believe that existence has a form and function, though purpose is something I can not perceive nor can I trust there to be one. This doesn't mean I don't want to seek a purpose for myself or my society however. To me no divine goals and such simply means we have to do a bit more thinking is all.

And yeah, I can be pretty damn cynical at times, sadistic too, but that's a different issue...

Aside, I can understand the idea of a self destructive streak within our race even though we are at a base a creature of survival only because our ability to reason easily gets muddled up in our beliefs and emotions, leading us to rather odd reactions and ideas at times. Not to mention these beliefs also would be referring to such things as separate cultures and the idea that even though we are one species that we are somehow different from nation to nation....hell even town to town at times.

War is a mixed emotion topic for me...I'm the kinda person that says things like "what ever happened to the good old days when people went to war for fun?". It's really more a reference to the honor and intent behind many of the older types of battle field conditions. You actually had to physically be next to your opponent most of the time and see their face or reactions as you fought them, actually get to know the person in ways that you would never get to in any other condition. Kinda off from the topic, but yeah...

War from any political, religious, or other similar point of view is rather commonly based on personal opinions that rather than using logic to find a conclusion, it is used to find a justification. That's kinda to me where our ability to reason breaks down and interferes with our tendency to favor survival.

There's also the thing about hostility towards differing or new things, which when you get the mob mentality going, the opting for exclusion and/or survival kinda leans rapidly towards large scale violence.

I have a hard time seeing most concepts of faith as little more than an ongoing appeal to something greater, which kinda makes sense from my point of view.

People within society like the reliance upon others. FIrst they find they rely upon their parents for everything. Slowly they move and grow to rely on others to teach them and to learn from their peers. Once you're an adult however you are told to think for yourself and stuck in an odd situation of "What am I gonna do?".

That seems reaffirmed in the way many things are worded as guiding, individuals being lost or found, discovering purpose, how to lead a good life. It's all an appeal to a new "parent" figure that we feel we may have somehow lost.

It also can easily be extended that this parent figure is used then as justification to understandings of things that we have no logical explanation for. We used to have no clue what was beyond the sea, and it used to be written that is was a sea of fire and monsters up until people got the balls to venture of and say "Where's the bloody sea monsters?!". Each time we have discovered something new we have gone back and revised the scriptures as it has been accepted. I just find it odd that they could concede that the world isn't flat nor the center of the universe and that the ocean didn't end in a sea of fire and monsters, but they still can't accept the idea of evolution. Maybe too much revising would be in order if they did?

Not to nitpick a single religion so much, just happens to be the only one I know alot about...but all this is still easily applicable to many other religions and as far as I know all major forms of beleif.

The things that stand out for me tends to be that even if there is something that says what one should or shouldn't do, or even if it's directly controlling what we do, that really doesn't change the fact that any range of things still happens.

Someone murders and is brought to court, they say they aren't accountable for their actions as it was a divine order....Well the judge just counters with his own divine order, being a prison or death sentence. If it's this way, then we really couldn't say we are fulfilling anything as we are simply there and doing things as we are told to do. The ultimate goal will be no reward that would benefit us, as we are simple puppets.

If we are free agents then even one should note, it doesn't matter wether or not there's morally right and wrong things to do or not. People will make the decisions they think is best given their particular train of thoughts and feelings, and no amount of divine command saying they shouldn't do that can really sway it. Guess that's why there's an idea of an afterlife that people hope they can get in somethings good grace for. But it's a contradictory situation when people do good to have a god after life as all their good actions belie personal desires.

I'm somewhat inclined towards the biological approach that morals is kinda like chaos, a human term to something that doesn't actually exist, but at face vaue stands consistent with the idea. We will tend to do things that is prone to our survival and our communities survival. We will also tend to try and understand our surroundings as much as possible so that we can be aware of threats or changes. This is easily noticable with people who are self contained or gossip alot. Things that fall outside or contratictory to our understandings we tend to react kinda harshly to at least at first.

On a somewhat related note it actually is a fact that the most easily recognizable face is an angry one. We seem to be genetically hardcoded to pick up and focus on things that most clearly benefit our chances of survival. Kinda an off topic of mine, but I kinda think society is still pretty stuck on the things most prone to our survival and not our communal evolution/ascenion...won't really babble about this unless someone wants to bring it up more...might just start a different thread for it...

I still think it would be fun to assemble a story and rp for this philosophy and theoretical science stuff. Would be kinda hard to do some things as most people would likely have theoretical entities similar to the null entity putting them in soewhat of a god-mod situation...but if we were all gods and intelligent I'm pretty sure we could do something, nnot alrp as to have conlict anyways. ^_^

Yeah I think there was a post on the first page about how this kinda thread becoming derailed easily...I personally have somewhat forgotten, kinda need to re read what I have written and see where I was going with it, aside, people might have a nice time thinkinn over what there is and making some of their own speculations on the concept. >.>

Hum...guess I shoulda expected a mod to remove that last line, hehe...

I get uncomfortable around others, sometimes to the point of either yelling out loud and running away or hitting someone. :P

I just don't deal well with people, it's not that I don't like talking to them or whether or not I like/hate them, I just get very very uncomfortable in any large group situations.

Seeing as we are currently sidetracked anyways...

"People live, people die
In the end who cares why

I'm agnostic and I don't really like spending my time on any questions that center around a particular train of thought or faith. Somewhat related it's really the situation that, as prior stated, we really have no complete way of understanding just what we and existence is, or even if it's really anything at all...

The things we can look at here, or that I'm interested in looking at , have a bit more to do with things that can operate on innate logics. In no way do such things tend to discount what people can believe in, which is lucky, at the same time it's a perfectly logical and open subject for people to debate and talk about.

^_^ Let's all have a mental happy place.

I agree on Devious about the killing stuff...

I mean, what ever happened to the good old days when people killed each other just because it was fun?!

...*cough* any who...Yeah, my initial post did get kinda muddled up, think the second entity from what I recall was more or less the basic pieces...or remnants...or something like that...as long it has some kind of will or personality. Guess the will or personality would be to give the entity drive to commit certain acts...those entities prolly are what we would consider traditional gods as they would actually feel and act out of their own desires as opposed to any natural force.

Maybe Devious is stressin' his head too much, he has posted allot. >.> ...I would suggest...uh...iunno...sleep and videogames? Pills and meds are bad...in my opinion...

Then again he may have just been sidetracked. :P

Either way hope he's oki.

AND IT IS OKI, NOT OK!...oki sounds cuter so I like it more. ^_^

Yeah the infallible truths stuff kinda got us off kilter...

Herm, I guess the thing I was thinking of is kinda like some of the monotheistic and other religions, but Worshiping something like null space is just kinda stupid, It's not like it actually likes you or anything and it really doesn't have any cares...it would kinda be like worshiping a rock hoping it will suddenly dance for you...

Ah...that's why then. :P

I'm the kinda person that won't give humanity more credit than I think they really deserve, meaning my views on culture is that they are more of an arbitrary abstraction of survival and comfort seeking that simply came about due to society. As such I can't really consider humans all that far up there, realistically we have no hard evidence that places us that high up. Can we really tell what a rat's thinking when it doesn't emote, communicate, or have the same behavioral patterns as us?

I just made reference to civilization because it has many cultures within it, not that it was in any way culture.

I really wouldn't consider that too much of an argument against at least theoretical absolutes there...you are still appealing to things external to the basic and pure concept, diluting it's meaning with further abstract thought to which we currently really have no ability to tangibly apply...

Ah well :P even if the absolute truths things doesn't work, it was just there as a logical limiter to the concept of this null entity. All that happens without them is that it can dictate anything and everything about ....everything...without argument. >.>

I don't see why rats wouldn't have "fuel" and we do, the concept of a soul or some such here is one we can neither perceive or prove. So for all observable purposes we do operate on the same principles and designs, just being a more complex system with more variables.

Aside, rats have displayed the ability to learn beyond basic instinct, as for culture, wouldn't that really weigh on what you define as culture? They have life cycles and have communal interactions even if they are different from ours. Not even our own race is consistent in cultural design and behaviors, not even all groups have culture as you may find in major civilizations, so to make such a remark is more a display of personal bias.

On the math thing, wouldn't that be introducing separate variables that then wouldn't be an actual pure remark of "2+2=4"? That would kinda be going against my prior stated them being directly the absolute concept of "2" in about a blunt and simple as it can be, same with 4 and +/=.

Oh and x0Four, I was just setting it aside at that moment because they were necessary ,but wouldn't directly help with what I was looking for at the time. I didn't just forget them though, need them as a ground or logical limit to the non-being. If we removed the concept of infallible truths in total it wouldn't disprove the being, but it would make the situation where it is the true dictator of all existence even with things as mathematics, which I thought was a little odd as it wouldn't have any necessity behind existence to drive towards entropy.