Moghedien_EU

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You do realise your argument has gone from being just bad to gone to [censored] now dont you?

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I do know several sets that wont be able to run on higher difficulty without faceplanting all time, while others wont have much probs

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Add another level of difficulty and leave powers alone unless they are blatantly broken.

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All that would do is make already great performing sets even better , while other sets having trouble already are unplayble.

That would lead to the point where only specific sets or combos can run at highest difficulty, therfore getting a huge and unfair advantage in xp and inf gain.

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And what exactly is stopping others from rolling toons more suited to the higher diff if they want to reap the same XP?

I've plenty of toons which can't solo the higher difficutlies, but I don't begrudge those who can.

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Yeah everyone can roll well perfomring toons...
Might aswell remove 80% of the sets then.....cause many ppl will only roll toons that are able to do highest diff.

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Add another level of difficulty and leave powers alone unless they are blatantly broken.

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All that would do is make already great performing sets even better , while other sets having trouble already are unplayble.

That would lead to the point where only specific sets or combos can run at highest difficulty, therfore getting a huge and unfair advantage in xp and inf gain.

mayn ppl who notice certain sets have no prob while other do struggle at highest diff , will roll those well performing sets....
City of clones here we come.....

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So this is really just another anti-farming rant!

Good for farming isn't the same as good for playing.

In a farm you want to fight the greatest number of reltively weak foes, and since you are doing the same mission over again you can choose mobs that aren't smashing resistant.

If you nerfed sets because the where chosen by farmers, then you would end up nerfing every set in the game, one set at a time.

Just let the farmers get on with what they want to do, and the rest of us get on with what we want to do for goodness sake!!

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The common farm mission is *** farm and those mobs ARE smashing resistant, on top of stacked vengeance, crazy buffed damg, acc and def.


This mission is normally run with lvl 52 mobs, which do explode for good damg, and deal fire damg.

2 lvl 52 bosses every spawn, one of which is exploding for crazy damg, minions that explode and dots al over the place on top of stacked veng isnt what i call relatively weak foes :-)

Cant see why a brute should have much probs against others mobs, if that farm can be run easy.

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So this is really just another anti-farming rant!

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Nope, just commenting your statement and proofing my point.

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They don't. There is nothing SS can do better when paired with WP than with other sets (it gains more benefit from pairing with SR). there is nothing WP can do better by pairing it with SS than pairing it with any other set.

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Well you must be right, maybe tell that all the farmers who have SS/Wp brutes and not other combos.


Obviously they all are stupid for rolling SS/WP cause you do know theres no synergy in that combo and any other combo would be as effective :-)

All the ppl posting farming builds on the US forum and discussing why SS/Wp is best farmer must be stupid too.....

But fortunately you know better :-)

Btw the defense crash is much worse for Sr than for WP

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Which brutes set have better synergy than SS/Wp ?

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DM/SR.
Fire/Fire

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Dm/Sr has great synergy agreed, but DM is pretty useless for fighting big spawns.

Fire/fire has godd synergy but not anywhere near the survivability.

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No synergy in SS/WP lol.
Even the ones who disagree they are overpowered would admit there is great synergy.
RTTC needs mobs in meele range, Fottstomp is an pbaoe whose knockdown gives WP the time to regenerate.

Which brutes set have better synergy than SS/Wp ?

To say SS/Wp have no synergy is ridiculous


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ATTENTION ATTENTION, synergy spotted between 2 powers..... split them up now.

This has been a public service announcement on behalf of the Synergy Police.

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Just wanted to show that PRAF68 statement those 2 have no synergy is ridiculous.

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Fiery embrace is secondary.
Against all odds is secondary.

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Yes. You asked "Which buff is better than RAGE ?". You didn't specify that it had to be from a primary. And youyr diatribe was specifically directed at SS/WP. Last time I looked nither Firery Embrace or AAO where in WP.

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Buildup isnt perma

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Nor does it kill your damage entierly.

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Recharge buffs that apply to LR also apply to Fs

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Until you get enough slotted that either is available on demand. there is a reason the devs switched from using recharge to using cast time when balancing powers.

But as I said, none of this is relevent. You like SS, other people prefer other power sets. None of this gives any reason to nerf SS.

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Read the post again you replied to ?
Of all primaries ... see ? primaries not secondaries :-)

You even quoted it without reading it ?

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Rages dmg buff more than makes up for the smashing resists mobs have.

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Not when you also figure in your other damage buffs from enhancements and fury (rage = +80%, enhancments = +95%, fury maybe an avarage of +100%).

And then Rage crashes, and you suck.

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Lethal sets dont have a Rage dmg buff and lethal is even more resisted.


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Yeah. lethal sucks. Doesn't make SS good though.

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that means i can FS THREE times while only use LR ONCE.
Thats 3 times the damg LR can deal.


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-20% smashing resist, and completly ignoring the possibility of recharge buffs and the advanatage of a ranged attack.

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Which buff is better than RAGE ?

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Build Up (no crash)
Sould Drain
Against All Odds (perma out of the box)
Firey Embrace (when combined with fire primary).



Fairly irrelevant, as it appears you like SS.

This is a good argument: Nerf SS because Moghedian likes it.

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Fiery embrace is secondary.
Against all odds is secondary.

Buildup isnt perma and only lasts for some secs, cant be stacked even with the best rech you can get.

Soul Drain needs many mobs to be as efficient as Rage has a lower tohohit bonus, needs an acc check and isnt perma without lots of + rech.


Recharge buffs that apply to LR also apply to Fs so not really a point there.

No synergy in SS/WP lol.
Even the ones who disagree they are overpowered would admit there is great synergy.
RTTC needs mobs in meele range, Fottstomp is an pbaoe whose knockdown gives WP the time to regenerate.

Which brutes set have better synergy than SS/Wp ?

To say SS/Wp have no synergy is ridiculous

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Does anyone disagree that Rage is the best buff of all brute primaries ?

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Yes.

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Does anyone disagree that Footstomp is the best aoe of all brute primaries?

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Yes. Lighting Rod is better. Some of the toggle auras are better too.

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Does anyone disagree that KoB is one of the best ST atackks with great secondary effects of all brute prmiaries ?


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Yep, Smashing damage, everything resists that, and the secondary effects are usless against AVs.

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Explain your statements ?
Rages dmg buff more than makes up for the smashing resists mobs have.


Lethal sets dont have a Rage dmg buff and lethal is even more resisted.

Other smashing sets dont have rage dmg buff.....

Lr is on a 90 sec recharge and FS on a 20 sec recharge, that means i can FS THREE times while only use LR ONCE.
Thats way more dmg in 90 sec that Lr can ever deal.
Plus Fs is a aoe knockdown every 8 secs which is crazy damg migitaion...

Which buff is better than RAGE ?
Primaries and toggle auras ? Pls feel free to name a few :-)

Btw almost every elemental attack has a smashing or lethal component in it.

How does the carsh matter , if any team got a "few" kins in it ? :-)

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Since it's easy for teamed brutes to reach the damage cap with a few kinetics around damage buffs from rage are fairly irrelavant unless soloing.

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Cause there are always a "few" kinetics in a team.....
To say Rage is irrelevant in a team is just absurd.

Does anyone disagree that Rage is the best buff of all brute primaries ?
Does anyone disagree that Footstomp is the best aoe of all brute primaries?
Does anyone disagree that KoB is one of the best ST atackks with great secondary effects of all brute prmiaries ?


If you disagree, show me where i am wrong pls

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I dont think most players agree with the devs that the aoes of various brute primaries have been cut down in range and radius.

Why nerf the radius of medicore attacks while leaving the best pbaoe with the biggest radius : Footstomp , untouched ?

Maybe someone can explain to me why those aoes with small radius to start with and no secondary effects to speak of needed nerfing while Footstomp seems to be ok for the devs ?

All in patch notes of today.

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Well maybe its because foot stomps a teir9 and there for considered a bit special?

i know lets compare it to another AoE tier 9

Foot stomp Lightning Rod win
end cost 18.5 13.5 LR
recharge 20s 90s FS
range 0 60 LR
cast 2.1s 2.57 FS
accuracy 75% 75% -
duration 13.5 4s FS
radius 15 20 LR
KB 0.67(tgt) 0.64 (tgt) FS
taunt 13.5 (tgt) 0 FS
damage 59.2 (smashing) 133.5 (energy) LR
teleport 0 1 LR

so which is better we can ignore the taunt you would think on one hand you have foot stomp which has a quick recharge and a quick cast time so can be used several time in a fight on the other hand you have lightning rod which has a marginally longer cast time and a recharge 3 times as long as foot stomp but you can use it from range effectively allowing you to negate a alpha strike something foot stomp dose not do as you must be within the mob to use it.

also lightning rod dose 133.5 energy damage compared to 59.2 that smashing dose so not only dose lightning rod do double the damage of foot stomp its also less resisted so more of its going to get thru.

so one really is no better than the other in my opinion both have advantages as well as disadvantages.

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You forget to include Rage in Footstomp damg didnt you ? :-)
Or double stacked rage, which isnt really hard to achieve at least for several seconds without spending billions of inf on the char.

What i really dont understand is , how ppl can actually deny that SS/Wp is performing better than any other brute combos in almost every situation.....

Show me a char WITHOUT bilions spent on sets, who can farm maps or kill 8 player spawns with almost no risk in a very short time solo.
While dealing St damg that is on par with sets that have no aoes and rely on ST mostly.

But i suppose the 15 ss/WP out of 20 brutes in Gv yesterday evening just roll this combo cause it looks cool :-)

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I dont think most players agree with the devs that the aoes of various brute primaries have been cut down in range and radius.

Why nerf the radius of medicore attacks while leaving the best pbaoe with the biggest radius : Footstomp , untouched ?

Maybe someone can explain to me why those aoes with small radius to start with and no secondary effects to speak of needed nerfing while Footstomp seems to be ok for the devs ?

All in patch notes of today.

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They werent "nerfed". In an earlier patch all of the AoEs had their radiuses inadvertently increased and this patch just corrected them.

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They have smaller radius now than several months ago.
Even if the had unintended buff last patch and they toned it down, they toned them down more than they were before.

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All in patch notes of today.

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Link, please. I've checked here, in the US, both training room forums and I can't see a patch today.

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Click the link at loginscreen :-)

I dont think most players agree with the devs that the aoes of various brute primaries have been cut down in range and radius.

Why nerf the radius of medicore attacks while leaving the best pbaoe with the biggest radius : Footstomp , untouched ?

Maybe someone can explain to me why those aoes with small radius to start with and no secondary effects to speak of needed nerfing while Footstomp seems to be ok for the devs ?

All in patch notes of today.

I dont think that there are players that are running around with lvl 50 chars slotting TO or DO enh do you really believe that ?

Well all the ppl who said SS is not overperforming and that is a fact, and only the devs can know if a set is too good.

What if those devs are nerfing SS in I14 ?
I do think most of the ppl now saying only the devs can datamine are going to say the devs are wrong and stupid then .

There have been some threads of ET beeing too powerfull, and the EM/ brutes said its not too good.
The devs datamined and decided it has to get nerfed....
And guess what......
The SAME players that said only the devs know when to adjust a power, now said the devs are idiots and dont know what to do.

It doesnt matter at all if the devs or players says a power is too good, the ppl playing those powersets will always say their set is ok and dont needs a nerf, sometimes its even underperforming !!

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No i think people read what you said, it was just no one except M agreed with you.

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Of course nobody agrees, cause noone likes their chars get weaker.
Even the ones that DO feel the sets are overpowered wont admit it in a forum.
Every person i know in game, in SG, in friends list agrees that SS/WP is the best brute combo by far....

Would the admit its overpowered if that could lead to a nerf of their best farming toons ?
NEVER EVER....

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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you want me to re roll my toon your kidding right? please tell me your kidding i rolled my DB/WP the day the 2 sets went live and I've made it to 26 you want me to throw away all that time spent on the toon the badges he's errand the inf he's earned any inventions he has?

and why because you see SS/WP as being over powered get a grip your clearly off your rocker and out your mind i don't even have SS i have duel blades a set that when paired with willpower works well it doesnt make me a god it doesnt make me a wet paper bag it makes a good well rounded toon that i like to play and you want to Nerf it because the secondary I've picked happens to work even better with a primary i discounted because it didn't match my idea.

before you go calling Nerf on things here's some things to check once you've checked them all come back here with your numbers and truly prove your point.

compare all the brute primaries to each other without considering secondarys do take into account the type of damage they do and any secondary effects they have

now do the same for the secondary

now compare each and every combination possible so SS/WP SS/elec SS/energy SS/dark SS/SR DM/WP DM/fire DM/elec etc etc etc

then do the same but take into account the power pools and patron pools

now do this with training origin enhancements up to the appropriate lvl

now do it with DOs

now do it with SOs

now do it with higher value IOs eg those that give a better percentage than a standard SO

now do it with HOs

now do it using cheeps IO sets

now do it using expensive IO sets

now do it optimising for specific stats so best end recovery best resistance values best recharge boost

now do it for a completely optimised best it can be build using IOs (standard and invention)

now do it using purple IOs

right done all that?..good now take all that data and now do the same thing for every AT villain side once you've done that start comparing the many many different brute builds that you've came up with in different team makeups until you've tried each brute build with each possible team make up.

Once you've done all that and seen how a build changes dependent on level, slotting, and team make up you can go on to see how your individual brute builds perform against different enemy groups (you should also do this for the teams)

and now that you've done all this you can come and say

"X power set is overpowered"

until that point all you can say is "well i think X power set is overpowered but i cant prove it" because half arsed numbers you put together from comparing 1 type of power or 1 aspect of something don't = proof.

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You do know yourself most of your your requests are just plain lol..and wont proove anything at all...

Its more than enough to compare the primaries without any enh at all to see which sets perform better and you know it.
Maybe what a maxed recharge build can do, but thats it.

Btw if you rolled Db/Wp as soon as it came out and now its only 26 you either dont like playing it and theres no reason to be upset about changes or you dont play much at all.
Either way 26 lvls since DB/Wp was introduced really means you didnt spent much time at all playing that toon :-)

Infamy can be transfered, as can recipes and sets.....
Many other sets have been nerfed and or buffed over time and ppl learned either to adapt or rolled a new char, simple as that.

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I agree to adding more options (Options is gud! ) for higher diffs, nastier spawns, etc. But DONT NERF STUFF. Nerfing leads down a rocky road to utter, utter ruin.

And whoever mentioned doing to PvE what was done to PvP, well-SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAMMM!!- ...-nods-

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Thats not true, nerfing doesnt lead down a road to ruin.
Stupid, unjustified nerfing does, justified nerfing doesnt.

As a matter of fact there are several mmorpgs where the LACK of adjusting and "nerfing" specific classes and powers, made the games lose many customers, cause the ppl had the feeling the game was unbalanced and broken.

Age of Conan. Warhammer online, Anarchy online even WoW just to name a few.

Reasonable nerfing and buffing is the key to a good mmorpg to achieve a state of relative balance between the classes and powers.

Its not much fun to be forced into playing specific classes or combos just to be competitive, at least imo and some others.

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Or maybe he dont drive himself mad worrying about things that dont effect him, and just plays the game.

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Why bother to post in this thread at all , if he dont cares ?
Is it only allowed to say sets underperform compared to others, not that some sets are overperforming ?

Player cried for buffs for certain sets since beta, and those sets got the buffs, meaning they got balanced compared to the performance of most of the other sets.
Shall now all sets get buffed to the performance of some specific sets or better balance those specific sets compared to the masses of sets ?

Shall it really be buff, buff,buff all other sets till its pointless to team since everyone can beat AVS and SF and maps for 8 players solo ?

Why do ppl see balance as a threat ?

I played warhammer online for some time, and all of a sudden every 3rd player rolled a bright wizard cause they were outperforming all other classes.
The non brightwizards complained its pointless to roll any other class than brightwizard.
Of course all the brightwizard players denied they were overpowered, they didnt want to lose their advantage over others.

The devs looked into them and noticed the players were right, the brightwizards were performing much better than intended, and toned them down to the lvls of the other classes.

Cant see something wrong with it.

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I give up. I can't be bothered to argue with smug, self-certain fanatics.

Anyone arguing against the OP is as likely to convert them as they are likely to convert the Pope to Judaism. For the same reason, too. Smug certainty is unassailable when it comes from having seen "the truth", and just leads to circular, irritating arguments.

Edit: 1st after the (Defiant RPS Open Champion)

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Ignorance is as bad as smug, self-certain fanatics....

Btw you didnt argue at any time at all...you just say all i do is make false statements....proof that i am wrong pls and where i am wrong.

WHy dont you just open your Mids Hero designer and check the numbers for SS attacks with double stacked rage compared to the other primaries attacks, and come here again and post that i am wrong and where i am wrong,when i say SS outperforms all other sets ?

Maybe because you prefer to be rude and ignorant before risking to see that i am maybe right ?

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Roll another secondary ?


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So if i get this right... in order to make Super Strength less powerful, you want to nerf Willpower. But in doing so, that will also nerf all other primaries, so in order to enjoy the other primaries you want people to not roll willpower as secondary.

Sorry but are you seriously listening to yourself or just typing out random sentences?

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I never said to make SS less powerfull i want WP nerfed.

I said both sets overperform compared to others and as a combo they overperforms even more.

Atm i am working on a table of brute primaries and compare damg rech aoes etc, to show it.
Everyone with Mids could easily check it, but i guess noone wants to, cause it would proof my point :-)

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that's all fine and good congrats you've solved the problem of ss/wp now fix my DB/WP as his damage has dropped and that recharge debuff has made my combos harder to pull off

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I notice that the pro nerfs haven't answered this

Quote from The Mess but I'd be in the same boat.

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Roll another secondary ?
Learn to deal with drawbacks ?

if you were /da you would have insane end probs and medicore resists+ kb hole
if ou were fire you would have no psi res at all, no kb prot and no real immob protection
if you were elec you would not have a heal and mezz prot only working when grounded
if you were EA ... oh well :-)
if you were Stone you would have the same problem.
If stone gets major drawbacks for beeing very survivable, then WP with no abvious holes should have drawbacks too.

Every set should have its weak spots that compensate for its strenghts, and as far as i can see every secondary got drawbacks apart from WP.

What i dont understand is, why ppl always want sets that are excellent in every aspect without any weak spots.

At least for me, running around as a demigod without any challenge in game is not much fun.

making overall diff for everyone harder wouldnt help either, cause ceratin sets would still be much better while others which are no very good atm would become totally useless.

Post deleted by GhostRaptor