Mna_Grok

To follow up - When heroes and villains cross-over to the other side, it has been stated that if when they cross, they will not start over from level 1. If you cross at a certain level, you will start with access to the contacts at that level. You will not have the opportunity to experience the content of a lower level in the same way that a person who is level 1 will be able to experience it.

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So with all due respect the devs never said you can not experience all of the content in this game with one specific hero. And to tell your player base this as a company would basically in so many words be telling your player base we want more of your money for making new alts.

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With all due respect, I remember reading the post by one of the Devs where they said that.

One character is not supposed to experience all fo the content.

Perhaps someone with better Search-fu than me can find the quote, but I haven't.

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What are the real-world implications of making Isolator (and potentially event badges) available in a non-limited fashion?

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Will it require a work effort that far supercedes the reward offered?

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It is this one of your questions that I think is the kicker. Other then making it a flashback or exemplar-type mission, all the other options require a fair amount of work.

Remember, if you do Isolator in Outbreak, there is really no danger in failing it, all it takes is time and effort. When you fast-forward your hero to L50 and do the same mission, you have some serious balance problems. If you balance for an uber-wimpy defender, the scrappers and blasters will walk through it with no real effort. If you balance it for the scrapper/tanker, the defender will have to get help to finish it.

Also, at what level do you make the mission available? 50 is out, why punish the people who haven't gotten their toon to 50 yet? You think the outcry over Khelds being limitted to players with a 50 is bad, wait 'till you do something like this. As you lower the level of the mission, you end up with serious balance problems.

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That logic does not apply here Moon.

We can take our level 50, exemp down and run new content with our friends. I've done every mission in The Hollows, Striga, Croatoa, and the new PVP Zones with my main.

We didn't outlevel and miss our chance. Every other kill # badge in the game is accessible! Isolator was put into a zone we no longer have access too.

And yes, we can roll a new character and get Isolator. And I've done so with every character I've made since Issue 2.

But my two 50s, the two characters I made the first week COH was released, and my two main badge collector characters, have no way to get it. We're just asking for a way to do that.

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For the record, I don't even like the fact that you can exempler down and gain badges that way and hope they remove the ability to do that. It hurts replayability, and it's brought about the nasty little buisness of people "selling" spots on badge missions. (Like to get the Spelunker badge)

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*Hi-fives LiquidX*

Right there with ya. I'd rather see the Flashback system for going back and getting stuff you missed. That would make it MUCH more interesting... that right there would hopefully settle this entire arguement.

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To be honest, I'm against the Flashback system to. It would hurt replayability.

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I'm against not having a sidekick/exemplar system. I've been to other MMO's without it. They are a social wasteland. CoX without the social aspect of playing with whomever you want because you can't do the same missions would result in level stratification .. a level elitism if you will, that is socially hard to break into until you become one of the elite.

No thanks, I'll pass.. just like I passed on those other games.

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You misunderstand me. I'm *not* against Sidekicking and Exemplering. I think that in itself is a good system. I'm against being able to exempler down and get badges that you missed. *thats* what I am against.

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Especially when you consider that once inside the mission, the exemplared person can simply un-exemplar, walk through the mission and get the badge doing no work at all.

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Okay, lets put it this way. Lets say one year you decide to enter a contest for 12-18 year olds. Say, a Marathon. You participate, and win, and get a nice Trophy.

Now lets say its a year later, and your 19 now and uneligible to enter. Well, it just so happens that THIS year, they have a new sponsor who offers up a nice million dollar prize. Does that mean that just because you put up the effort in last years race, when there WAS no prize, that you should be retroactively awarded a million dollars?

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A million dollars?? That is going to the extreme. I think that your example would be more accurate if you used a pretty blue ribbon to all the participants instead.

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Substitute whatever prize you want. 10 bucks. A lifetime supply of Rice-a-Roni. A fancier trophy. It all works out the same.

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True, but work is boring.

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Okay, lets put it this way. Lets say one year you decide to enter a contest for 12-18 year olds. Say, a Marathon. You participate, and win, and get a nice Trophy.

Now lets say its a year later, and your 19 now and uneligible to enter. Well, it just so happens that THIS year, they have a new sponsor who offers up a nice million dollar prize. Does that mean that just because you put up the effort in last years race, when there WAS no prize, that you should be retroactively awarded a million dollars?

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A million dollars?? That is going to the extreme. I think that your example would be more accurate if you used a pretty blue ribbon to all the participants instead.

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And someone made a McDonalds cheeseburger analogy a while back. The Difference between getting burgers and suddenly getting cheeseburgers and getting or not getting Isolator is this:

Even after I leave McDonalds I can come back anytime an get those Cheeseburgers. I can't go back anytime an get isolator. Not like once they started serving Cheeseburgers McDonalds started blocking people who came in before that from returning...

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Right analogy, but you are using it wrong. In the analogy, you are the peson buying the burger/cheeseburger just as you are the one playing your hero. However, for the analogy to be correct, your hero is the burger you buy. You have the opprtunity upon purchasing the burger, to decide what you want on it. Once you start eating it, you can't go back to the counter and ask for a different burger.

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So it is all right for you to use gross exaggerations to make a point in a discussion, but not for others to use the same tactic.

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Because Ive read this entire thread and no one has come up with a ligitimate answer as to why the Isolator should not be avaialble to all heroes in the later game eventually.

Other then delete your toon and start all over again like someone else did...lol

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Other people have come up with valid reasons. The fact that you think that they are not valid does not make them so. Of course, by the same point, the fact that we don't think that your reasons why it should (which boils down to "Because I want it") are valid doesn't make them less valid to you.

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I agree there are other things more important, so don't twist words around that was never used.

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Says the person who claimed that [ QUOTE ]

Its just the reason to say no, leave it alone, is because you have this badge already and you at any given point can say "Ha I have it and you don't!"

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So it is all right for you to use gross exaggerations to make a point in a discussion, but not for others to use the same tactic.

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Isolator is the only badge that you can not get no matter what you do, if you didn't get it before leaving the tutorial.

EVERY other non-Event badge can be picked up - it might just entail malefactoring down and teaming with someone much lower than you are, in order to get some of the story-based badges.

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And thats exactly everyone's point, what makes Isolator more special then any f the other 300+ badges out there?

Nothing, so we all should have the chance to go back and get this badge as all of the other badges in this game.

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So now convince us why it is so important that the devs should stop working on all of the other things that they are working on so that they can add in this new mission.

Because I want it (and, FYI, I don't have it and don't plan on getting it) is not a valid reason BTW.

I thought about the devs somehow implementing a way for old toons to get Isolator and, in my opinion, it is not a worthwhile expencse of time, effort or money to do so.

There are a number of other things that people are clamoring for on the forums that should have a *much* higher priority than this, including:

<ul type="square">[*]End-game content[*] SSOOCSS[*] AT balancing issues[*] New powersets[*] Fixed animations for some powers[/list]
The time and effort that they would have to put in to create a way, in-story and making sense, for heroes who didn't get isolator to get it through flashback or something like that, to me, just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

RE: Cheese on hamburger

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I knew you would say that, but the thing is It is a different case because this product is not consumed.

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Actually, the game is something that you consume. You consume the content, it just so happens that this content takes a long time to consume and chew on.

Math is fun.

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I'm wondering if I should do this...

Anybody think "I &lt;3 Ex" would be bad?

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Do it!!

The power of the Bond compels you!!

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The fact that you don't like the PvP zones does not relegate them to "not content".


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You can only slightly consider it content though.

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That is like being slightly pregnant.

It doesn't work that way, wither it is content, or it is not.

My definition of conetnt, just so that it is clear, is something added to the game that wasn't there before. Thus, new powersets, new zones, new costume options, hell, even a new button on the UI is new content.

Whether I like/enjoy the content or not is a completely different question.

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Oh and on a side note if Issue 8 is a hero heavy update be ready for the same kind of reaction from the villans that you are getting from the heroes this issue.

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Well the thing is we've really had not content updates since August 05.

PvP is not content, more skirts and shoulder animals are not content, ED was not content.

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The fact that you don't like the PvP zones does not relegate them to "not content".

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Since we can't flashback we don't get to experience the hollows or Striga or Croatoa. Yeah we can RSk but thats not the same as having the contacts yourself and being able to run missions whenever you want. I mean we got one TF in striga and one in croatoa, I don't count Hess in striga as content open to 50s because we need to actually unlock him and be within a certain level range to do so.

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*cough*makeanewhero*cough*

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I love playing this game, but I often get strange reactions from people when I tell them I play MMO's. How do you guys justify/explain playing the game/use of the game?

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I get this a lot from my in-laws.

I don't try to explain it. I just say that I enjoy it, and then ask how it is different from sitting on the couch watching TV...

GodSmack - Realign

Metallica - The House Jack Built

Tukan - When you hear the Silence

The Bloodhound Gang - Something Diabolical

Metallica - Human

Metallica - It's Electric

The Bloodhound Gang - Balls Out

Vernon J. Price - Hide &amp; Seek

Evanescance - Bring Me To Life

Green Day - Give Me Novocain

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I wasn't the one who asked the question. I was only responding to your comment that "most people said leave it alone." That's it.

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Then I apologize for the first part of my statement then. I do believe that the Devs sometimes need to take the attitude that if its not broke dont fix it. Improve Yes!

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Meh, no apologies needed. Forums sometimes R teh confuzzling.

Anyways, in retrospect, it is no surprise that this will get looked at. As mentioned somewhere else in this thread, all it takes is one Glowy mission per level and someone could farm that mission for the level.

Combine that with the well-displayed tendancy of Cryptic Devs to come down hard on anything resembling low(no) risk/High Reward and it becomes evident.

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This is bait and switch how?

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Its a bait and switch because most people didnt see this as a problem to begin with and as such needed no solution. Now instead of just leaving it alone, we are happy it just not being nerfed like it was planned.

They can say they listen to the playerbase because it was suggested by a few that suppression be used instead of no clicky, but most people said just leave it alone.

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Just because most people didn't see it as a problem, doesn't mean that there isn't/wasn't one.

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You asked how its a bait and switch and I just explained it.

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I wasn't the one who asked the question. I was only responding to your comment that "most people said leave it alone." That's it.

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This is bait and switch how?

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Its a bait and switch because most people didnt see this as a problem to begin with and as such needed no solution. Now instead of just leaving it alone, we are happy it just not being nerfed like it was planned.

They can say they listen to the playerbase because it was suggested by a few that suppression be used instead of no clicky, but most people said just leave it alone.

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Just because most people didn't see it as a problem, doesn't mean that there isn't/wasn't one.

Gawd I never thought it would be so nerve-wracking to hit the SEND button.

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Welcome Arctic_Sun!!

I should warn about some of the people that you will meet on here.

Remember those kids in school that took pleaseure in nit-picking the tiniest of details, solely for the purpose of making themselves feel better than other people??

Most of them are on these forums.

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Like so...."pleasure"

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Ummm, allow me to respond:


Thpppbbbbbb!!

Welcome Arctic_Sun!!

I should warn about some of the people that you will meet on here.

Remember those kids in school that took pleasure in nit-picking the tiniest of details, solely for the purpose of making themselves feel better than other people??

Most of them are on these forums.

[i]Edit - Nothing to see here, move right along. I really didn't make a stupid spelling mistake. Nope. Not at all. It was all a figment of your imagination.[i]

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Statesman, I for one never expected bases to be available to non-CoV people. However, this is yet another example of your commitment to murkiness biting you in the rear.

Full disclose, early and often. Facts are your friends.

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No this is not an example of murkiness biting him in the rear. This is an example of people jumping to (incorrect) conclusions based on little or no information and then getting angry when their (incorrect) assumptions are exposed when more information comes out.