Mieux

[ QUOTE ]
Not with my Grav/Storm in the area, I just love people who think that >=)

[/ QUOTE ] One of the best methods I've seen of dropping Stormies is Howling Twilight. Always hits...drops your Hurricane, guess who shows up for dinner?

[ QUOTE ]
but instead utilize space-time metrics.


[/ QUOTE ] But like number 1, any space-time metrics are constructions within the system. The universe does not recognize the concept of "oneness." We use it as form of data compression. But outside of us, it doens't exist. So any "metrics" are inherently limited. In my mind, its like asking us to "know" something we can't conceive of. Like asking a person blind from birth to understand color.

One of lifes amazing attributes is the question of "Why?" We want to see and understand things we have no way of understanding. It think this attribute is present at various levels for many organisms on Earth. Life wants to control, reshape, modify the world around it. Odd that we've reached a stage where we can see the limit to the knowable.

[ QUOTE ]
we have a multitude of theories which draw upon inspiration from extra dimensional spaces, various string/membrane theories, and infinitesimal wormholes as you have suggested.

[/ QUOTE ] Well, it seems to me that John Bell's experiments (reality is non-local) point to this multi-dimensionality. FTL communication between photons suggest that this is the same particle on some other dimension. The experiment shows us how to expose, if you will, that connection. Or put another way, how that connection manfests itself in a way we can observe.

[ QUOTE ]
Those that tout that AS/hide is out of balance are full of crap. The proof is in the pudding.

[/ QUOTE ] Kellen, that is some counterfeit pudding you've been eating. I suspected this from your other posts. You really aren't aware of the capability of Stalkers. Nor does a situation where you have an army of heroes storming the base...represent a justification for status quo. Did it occur to you that the reason they can do that is because they have the critical mass of powers to fend off stalkers? Is this the only time you want Heroes to feel like it is safe to enter into PvP zones?

One of the consequences of CoH/Cov situation is you've created extremes in PvP. Posters on here, are looking for a middle ground. The only time we seem to find it is when Stalkers aren't swarming. I fought a level 30 Brute in SC with my lvl 40 DM/SR. It was a blast. We fought twice we both had so much fun. I lost the first...because he used inspirations...and I won the second because he didn't (but I have a clear advantage). And guess what happened at the end. A stalker tried to AS me after I won....lol. Typical. At least she let me finish the fight...but she missed..because she didn't have BU in her build.

The point is...that is the stuff that will keep people in PvP Zones. Either you enable it or you don't. The devs have to figure out which path gets them to where they want to be.

Btw....do you have Build-Up?

[ QUOTE ]
Not a huge PvPer here, but reading this thread certainly doesn't make me want to go visit these zones. Though the sightseer in me does want to visit and check things out. Maybe after I level up my stalker.....

Lots of interesting theoretical and experiantial arguments here. But game statistics should tell the story: IF an unusual percentage of CoVers in the PvP zones are stalkers, then there is probably something wrong. They are either too effective, or there are not enough useful powers to counteract them. The exact percentage is a decision, but this seems to mirror previous Cryptic behavior. AT sets that were incredibly popular were hit, and those that were taken by only the few concept die hards were buffed.

IF, over time the stalkers really constitute an unusual percentage of the PvP zone classes, something will be done about it.

[/ QUOTE ]Using this approach will lead to a faulty analysis.

PvP zones are a joy as Villian. I can go in with my lvl 15 crtpr and not have a care in the world. Why? Because I know if there are any solo heros out there....they are in fear of getting ganked. This means you'll see a fair number of CoV vllians in PvP Zones because it's relatively safe for them to go solo.

If Stalkers have no one to hunt, they get bored and leave. Just because Stalkers aren't actually "in" the zones doesn't mean they aren't affecting the demographics.

PvP is a lot of fun when you can battle X v X without fear of getting AS'd repeatedly by someone you can't see.

[ QUOTE ]
More and more I'm agreeing with the conclusion that layers of approximation are all science will ever be able to give us.

[/ QUOTE ] On a metaphysical level...it's quite mind-blowing. I analogize our situation to a computer...trying to devine the world around it without any extra-sensory input. The very tools we use preclude us from understanding what those tools really are...i.e. Heisenberg writ large.

Quantum theory, more than anything, shows us that perception is a layer. But it also shows us a peep-hole to some extraordinary things. One of the most difficult for us to grasp is that time is no different than any of the other three dimensions.

Another born from quantum entanglement is that it is possible, everything in the universe is connected along some dimensional axis. The distance between you and the star in the sky represents movement along one of those axies. It is possible to reach the star without moving any "distance'...along a different dimensional axis. This is where the "worm-hole" stuff comes from...and folding space (though they represent different mechanisms).

Mind-blowing.

[ QUOTE ]
So even Newton, Heisenberg, and Einstein aren't absolutes. It's not likely we're going to find the grand unified theory of PvP, either.

[/ QUOTE ] Actually, Heisenberg is an absolute law of quantum theory ...at our level. In fact it underscores some larger fundamental concepts.

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, neither are universally true

[/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean in the context of quantum theory. The entire universe...is supposedly probabilistic. The observation is a product of the event and the observer. Observation collapses the probability waveform....so it's hard to know what the "universe" really is when you understand that.

[ QUOTE ]
the search for the Grand Unified Theory, which doesn't exist just yet.


[/ QUOTE ] The search for the GUT is fasionable atm. The media likes it. It may be simply just be another layer of approximation like the rest of our laws of physics.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's about having a PvP experience that isn't just fun for stalkers or Stalker Hunting teams.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're presenting it as an absolute here. "...isn't just fun..." sets this statement up as a universal truth since it excludes counter-examples. Hence the presentation of a counter-example.

[/ QUOTE ]No..I am not presenting an aboslute...I am trying to avoid one. Do really think I mean to say that nobody who is not a Stalker is having fun in PvP? The fact that you would attempt to wrestle that perspective from my statement, even if it is technically supportable, is proof that you are just looking to argue. You don't have a substantive defense and are simply trying to play word games.

[ QUOTE ]
Part of the problem is you keep pigeon holing people.

[/ QUOTE ] I didn't pigeon hole you at all. You don't have to be a Stalker to have bogus examples and analogies..

[ QUOTE ]
My problem is the fact that people keep claiming somthing is broken when it's not.

[/ QUOTE ] Wha tpeople are saying is that it isn't fun. You seem to keep ignoring that. Your whole argument is that because their might some check or balance, then every thing is hunky dory. It's not. I'm not sure why you can't seem to grok that just because something exist in this game doesn't make it an enjoyable experience.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a big fan of the controller AT but if somone wanted to nerf their primary..or any power for that matter..I because some could not find a way to defend against it, I would be aguing just as much against it.


[/ QUOTE ] Then why aren't you out lobbying for the removal of Break Frees? People said Chain Mezing wasn't fun and what happend? Did the devs counter with your "well there are checks and balances, son, so you need to just grin and bear it"? No. The paid attention and the added suppression and break frees.

[ QUOTE ]
My point was missed.

[/ QUOTE ] Your point wasn't missed, because it wasn't made. The things you did to counter AS...had nothing to do with any active effort on your part. You chose that power long before you even knew it might help.

[ QUOTE ]
If it can be countered w/o trying then it most definately can be done when the player is activley trying and thinking about the possible threat.

[/ QUOTE ] First, that's just not even logically valid. Second, ....so what...the question is whether that makes for enjoyable experience. IF the solution to stopping AS was to constaly type 1,2,1,2...who cares. Nobody wants to go through PvP like that. Let Stalkers do that for 1/2 hour to recharge AS and we'll see how much fun it is for them. But hey.."it's easy."

[ QUOTE ]
Also misunderstood and only partially replied to was my comment about AS and aura's both missing

[/ QUOTE ] You completely missed my point Kellen. When AS misses...so what...you run away. When BA misses...you take it in the keyster. How are those situations comparable? They are not.

[ QUOTE ]
I maintain that there a checks and balances for all of these Powers/and ATs.

[/ QUOTE ] That was true before they had Break Frees...so why did they bring in break frees?

[ QUOTE ]
Premise: PvP isn't fun unless you're a Stalker or a Stalker Hunter

[/ QUOTE ] False. Once again...a strawman argument. You have presented the premise as an abslolute..which it is not. As I said..you are attempting to twist the argument into a binary state. It doesn't change the reality of the situation. Continued attempts to ignore that suggest that you are not interseted in solving the problem, just pretending it doesn't exist.

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, so what we need then is a single counter-example... one person who is neither a Stalker nor a Stalker hunter, and the premise is discredited, right?

[/ QUOTE ]Your logic does not compute.

<smile> Quason, you're trying to manuever this discussion into some binary truth. A lot of people aren't enjoying the current setup. As a dev, you can ignore it or you can heed it. You can rationalize it anyway you want, but at the end of the day, that is what you have to face.

Cryptic has done an excellent job of understanding that. Unyielding Stance may have been balanced, but it wasn't fun. Being rooted wasn't fun. They changed it.

[ QUOTE ]
So what you're saying then is that PvP right now is not fun for anyone that's not a Stalker or that is not specifically hunting Stalkers?

[/ QUOTE ]Read the boards...do the math.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This isn't about not winning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then what's it about?

[/ QUOTE ]It's about having a PvP experience that isn't just fun for stalkers or Stalker Hunting teams.

[ QUOTE ]
Just because you can't see the stalker doesn't mean you can't defend against it. I've foiled many stalkers w/o even meaning to.

[/ QUOTE ] The latter isn't a support for the former. I don't think you want to suggest dumb luck as your solution.

[ QUOTE ]
Many 2ndarys offer some sort of defensive AoE aura, but can miss, just like AS can miss.


[/ QUOTE ] Another false comparision. First, Hide was given 37% boost to AoE's, specifically so they could nail people with Auras and AoE's. The devs decided it somehow wouldn't be fair if toons with auras could consistently foil stalkers.

Second, BU is reported as giving a 60% acc boost. This will cut through most defense builds and give you a 95% accuracy against anyone without Defense. And if hitting someone is critical, you can use Insights...remember...it's pretty easy when you can initiate the when of the attack.

Third, saying AS can miss like aura's an miss is logically flawed. When AS misses, you don't get hit for 700+ points of unresisted damage do you...you know....like what happens when your aura misses?

[ QUOTE ]
The reason that having many counters for a stalkers AS is bandied about so much is because it's true.

[/ QUOTE ] No. The vast majority of them are false or bogus comparisoins like yours. You compare things that are not equal and try to present as such. Your comparing AS missing to auras missing is a prime example. The best example is the ubiquitous comparison to blasters. But that comparision fails every time because blasters are extremely vulnerable themselves...all the time...no just when they are attacking people. I can count on one-hand how many blasters can successfully kill a defender in a group and escape. Sure...with a bunch of inspirations...anyone can stick around....but guess what ..I see that and I get out of dodge. I'd just love to see the complaints if we gave blasters mez protection in PvP and stackable Stealth. It would have lasted all of three seconds when the Arenas were introduced. Stalkers are getting a free ride because they are new...and making wholesale changes in PvP would tantamount to an admission of a mistake. And I'm sure the devs want to make as few changes as possible so it behooves them to find the best solution.

[ QUOTE ]
And yes, like everything else most of the people would like to see the easy fix.


[/ QUOTE ] You can keep repeating this ad nauseum, and it doesn't make it true.

and FYI, i've killed many stalkers myself. No one said they are invincible. But you seem to be ignoring the point. The situation isn't fun. It has nothing to do with getting beaten. It has to do with the nature of the combat. I have no problem with some sets trumping mine. /SR gets beat up pretty badly by en/en blasters. /Regen gets schooled by controlllers. DM struggles with PvP in general. Defenders are just not PvP powerhouses. This isn't about not winning.

[ QUOTE ]
He never said you HAD or were FORCED to team

[/ QUOTE ]For the vast majority of builds, there is no way to see the stalker otherwise. 50% of the Scrapper secondarys will NEVER see a stalker while solo. Castle is presenting this fact as if to say that Stalkers come out on the bottom. It comes across as a disengenous. As others point out, this is misleading given the context and environment of PvP. This is about normative play, not theortical.

[ QUOTE ]
There are so many tactics to nullify and negate stalkers uber hide/AS ability, but everyone wants an easy fix

[/ QUOTE ] This is constantly bandied about. If Stalkers were only using Hide, then you'd be right. Castle, himself, AS'd a Fire Tankers with Blazing Aura. I've seen Stalkers two shot controllers running two such AS breaking powers.....repeatedly...without inspirations.

Kellen, my guess is you aren't fully aware of what Stalkers can do. This seems to be true of 90% of the stalkers that offers counter arguments. It runs the gamut from perception negating all their powers, bemoaning that they are squishies (nevermind they /SR stalkers have better +DEF than /SR scrappers), to claims that no stalkers can one-shot defenders.

[ QUOTE ]
but everyone wants an easy fix

[/ QUOTE ] Wrong. We want a fix that makes it fun for both sides, not just one.

I'm curious Kellen, why don't we put mobs in the PvP zones that can do this as well? Is it some how "fun" when it can only come from another player? Seriously, let's put Bounty Hunter Mobs that can see Stealthed Stalkers and one-shot them along with everyone else.

[ QUOTE ]
Best solution to TP foe I've heard: 5 seconds of intangibility after the port (as they're pulled through the dimensions).

[/ QUOTE ] That is a good idea.

[ QUOTE ]
Couple things:

One, everyone needs to calm down and stop the personal attacks. We're all here trying to make this a better game, so resulting to name calling or bullying is actually contrary to our goal.

Two, I like to think we are special here at Cryptic.

Three, everyone needs to remember the absolute cap on Stealth is lower than the absolute cap on Perception if the players are even level. This means that a TEAM using non-Temp powers but with a good overlap of other powers will be able to see a Stalker before that Stalker gets into Melee Range. Additionally, while Tactics is a Toggle power which can be left on indefinitely for a +Perception boost, Grant Invisibility is a click buff which has a finite duration. So, a group of Stalkers + Support needs to stop and rebuff every few minutes to remain at the Stealth Cap, while a group using overlapped Tactics can remain on the move constantly.

I'm also aware that TP Foe is a big issue in PvP. In our internal testing, my Stone/Stone Brute used it to great affect on opposing targets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your solution requires that a team have at least two people with Tactics..unless they have one of about 5 specific sets with a +perception power. Generally this means that a team of CoH heros will need two players with Tactics...just to deal with Stalkers. Let's think about this for a second. The buff from Tactics is about 10% correct? Stacked this is about 20%. This completely nullifies /Ninji and /EA defense, and hamstrings /SR's. It also requires that they have either Assault or Manuevers. So because of this stacked stealth situation, the only way to beat it gives you such an advantage, that it skews the balance. Not only will you be able to see them, you'll be able to hit them quite reliably unless they are running Overload.

As an /SR, I know what it's like to have you defenses nullified, so I don't see how this "solution" is going to be fun for the majority of Stalkers?

The other thing I'd like to point out is the inequity of your solution. Who is forcing Cov Villians to team up and get Tactics or some other pool power requires two powers? It isn't Fire/Fire Controllers in Siren's and Warburg.

I've yet to see an explanation for why Heroes should have to team in BB and Siren's, but Villians shouldn't? And it's not just team mind you, but only team with players that can provide overlapping +perception.

[ QUOTE ]
The binary nature of stealth and perception runs into a similar problem that mez and mez protection does.


[/ QUOTE ] I submit that it is quite different. I took my lvl 15 TA/A into BB yesterday and I ran into a Mind/PSi Dom. I had one break free...and I used it when she tried to TK me into a group of mobs while I was held. The BF let me escape...and the rest of the battle, I had to deal with chain mezing...and so what. I beat her. I've got 75% TO's and despite getting constantly mez'd, I was still able to force her to flee ...and ultimately caused her defeat as she ran into some turret that shot her down (she should have let me defeat her). The point is gettting mez'd without break frees, at least when two opponents are at the same level...does not result in a binary outcome.

The problem as I see it, and others, is not just the inviso, or just the AS, or just the escapability, it is the combination of those things. I don't care if I can't see you as long as I know you'll have little or no chance of killing me without a fight. I am less concerned that you can one shot me if I can see you guning for me (though lag makes this a problem). But when I can't see you...AND...you can one shot me...then it's not fun.

[ QUOTE ]
Did Cryptic really think about this when they designed stalkers?

[/ QUOTE ] Well, States said they designed very few things for PvP. It appears that Stalkers were designed to work in PvE. Castle posted about his experiences in PvP and apparently it probably fell on him to make sure Stalkers were viable in PvP. I am curious if he stopped to think about whether it was actually fun to fight stalkers given their setup. I don't think the devs considered what it would be like to be in a zone with 10-15 stalkers, while trying to enjoy a Hot Spot, defeat a turret base in Bloody Bay, or just fight mobs in Warburg solo. I also suspect they didn't realize that EM stalkers could basically two-shot such that you really have little or not time to react.

Like the Stamina/Hasten debacle, I am wondering Castle realized 95% of all PvP Stalkers would take Stealth and thus force players to have overlapping Tactics. And remember, a solo /Regen or /Invinc Scrapper will never be able to see a solo Hide + Stealth Stalker. Not even with IR Goggles.

I have somethine else to say about Castle's post...but I'll respond to it directly.

You responded to the wrong person...I wrote that post, not BS.

[ QUOTE ]
It's more than apparent if a player goes into a PvP zone not properly prepared or built and think they will own everything and everyone, they will suffer the consequences.

[/ QUOTE ] Strawman. No one is expecting to "own everything and everyone." You present a bogus argument that no one has made. People are expecting to have fun. If you can't understand how Stalkers are precluding that...then you are delusional....at best.

[ QUOTE ]
My Ice/EM blaster can use AIM + Buildup + Power Boost + Boost Range and 1 shot a Controller or Defender from so far away they had no chance to escape or respond.

[/ QUOTE ] I'm not buying this for a second. Ice does not have a Snipe power. Bitter Ice Blast has a shorter range than the other powers. Boost Range doesn't turn BIB into a snipe range power. BU+ Aim will not allow you to one-shot controllers with any one attack in Ice...unless you have 1 HP. What's more....I can see you...and you may not be able to see me...which means while you are about to take someon else out....I can take you out.

[ QUOTE ]
Add in the boosts I can get through Accolade powers, and I can nearly 1 shot a scrapper or tank.

[/ QUOTE ] And this part is probably a lie. What accolades boost your damage in Warburg? What Accolades boost your damage period?

[ QUOTE ]
I guess Blasters should get nerfed too.


[/ QUOTE ] Yes...this tired disanalogy so often wheeled out by Stalkers. Blasters are highly vulnerable to getting waxed themselves. Let's give blasters status protection, defense, a snipe that always knocks off two toggles, and the Hide, and the ability to stack Stealth...and we'll see who does the complaining.

[ QUOTE ]
Warburg (and I believe the upcoming level 50 PvP zone) are Free For All on either side. So how exactly are ONLY CoH players forced to team in PvP?

[/ QUOTE ] So one zone out of threee is fair? Why don't we allow AS to only work in one zone out of three...Warburg. And please dont' make conjecture about the lvl 50 zone.

More importantly, you have solved the problem, you've exasperrated it. The problem is that solo toons should be allowed to enjoy PvP without constant fear of getting one-shot by an unseen enemy.

[ QUOTE ]
A well built Controller can defeat a scrapper, tanker, blaster and defender all at once.

[/ QUOTE ] Of equal skill? Where they are they same level outside of PvP? Maybe one time in a million....with a tray full of lucks and the others too oblivious to notice.

[ QUOTE ]
Last night there was a Fire/Fire Controller in Warburg who defeated a team of two stalkers, an Ice/Fire Corruptor, an EM/Dark Brute and a Robot/Traps Mastermind - solo. Does that answer your question?

[/ QUOTE ] And I've seen /regens back in I3 die....so clearly I3 /regen wasn't overpowered. Does that answer your question?

Your anecdotes are simply that. Unusable, unscientific observations.

What is very real is the experience players have with the arrival of Stalkers in PvP. Regardless of how you want to rationalize it, the effect is there.

[ QUOTE ]
I highly doubt the developers of the game will make a change that could adversely affect revenues...

[/ QUOTE ] That's the key question which you didn't ask, but assumed was true. Where is the more profitable course? Let Stalkers dominate in PvP...or allow the average player to enjoy PvP?

They thing you and other stalkers completely overlook is the cascade effect that Stalkers have. When I got to Bloody Bay with my lvl 15 crptr and there are no heroes in the zone....or they won't fight me 1v1 because they are afraid some stalker is going to gank them...then Stalkers are precluding my enjoyment as a villian.

Another completely imbalanced situation is that the PvP zones give excellent Prestige for fighting bosses. Only the Hero side is significantly deterred from engaging in these battles for fear of getting one-shotted by opportunist Stalkers. When I take my Villians to PvP...the difference in stress is like night and day. I can lounge around, enjoy the scenery, talk to friends, etc. If one side is precluded from doing this ...so should the other side...unless you are going to give Heros substantially more xp/prestige for achievements in PvP zones.

[ QUOTE ]
My Illusion/Storm Controller can easily defeat a Stone tank.

[/ QUOTE ] Irrelevant. What does this have to do with being ones-shotted by something that you can't see? Last I checked, Stone Tanks weren't on the hit list for Heros in Siren's.

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen a well built Spines/DA scrapper solo and kill teams of 3 or more stalkers too.

[/ QUOTE ] Bogus. Once again, you provide no details of this encounter. Sure... a lvl 50 Spines/DA in Bloody Bay against three lvl 15 Stalkers. I know for a fact that EM Stalkers in Siren's can BU+AS+ET a /DA scrapper ...any /DA scrapper.

[ QUOTE ]
The devs turned a blind eye toward all the people unhappy about Enhancement Diversity.

[/ QUOTE ] Another irrelevant response. ED affects everyone.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you see me complaining about it?

[/ QUOTE ] And yet another strawman. Do you see anyone else complaining about MM? They are THE weakest AT HP wise in the game. You can completely ignore the pets. And no MM ever snuck up on me unseen. No MM can become invisible to Tactics or any of the Stealth powers while he or she is solo.

Your comparisons aren't valid, mainly because you're not really understanding the nature of the issue.

Regardless of what you think is balanced or not, Stalkers should not be allowed to preclude the fun of others. This is a game. People pay to play it because it is fun. If the devs allow one AT to...regarldess of how elegantly you may think it is designed...result in a net reduction of player enjoyment, then you have a problem.

There are probably now hundreds of posts of people complaining about the affect of Stalkers. We have a problem from a psychological perspective. If they devs ignore it, it may become an economiic problem. CoV and CoH will be significantly augmented by having enjoyable PvP for bothsides.

I would absolutely love to seem them put in a Bounty Hunter Hero what could kill Stalkers with the same effort that they can kill defenders. I'd love to see the tables turned and the responses that resulted.

[ QUOTE ]
That's a good start, but here's some more things that need to be done:

Stalkers take twice as much damage as they deal when they use AS.
Stalkers pay $30/month subscription fee instead of $15.
Stalkers home phone number and bank account/routing number are displayed in character info.
Everytime a Stalker logs on, God kills a kitten.
If a Stalker spends longer than 1 hour in a PvP zone, the player develops inoperable brain tumors.

That should help cut down on the one-shots a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]You can't even be reasonable can you?

It should only be 1/2 hour before the brain tumors occur. Arguing for 1 hour is like asking all the Heros to cutoff an ear.

Jeez...some people.

[ QUOTE ]
How about if (in PVP only) Defenders, Corruptors and Blasters exploded when they were one-shot by a player?

[/ QUOTE ] hilarious.

[ QUOTE ]
You entered the PvP zone without ...

[/ QUOTE ] <lol> So anyone who doesn't enter a PvP zone with stacked +Perception should just stay out? You sure you want that to be the mantra for leaving things as status quo?

[ QUOTE ]
How do you define this?

[/ QUOTE ] Anything you can one-shot without inspirations. Why don't give those AT's a "one-shot Stalker's" power? Sound like fun for you? But we'll allow them to not only become totally invisible...we'll allow them to see you. Sure...they'll have to spend 20 minutes setting it up....and all you'll have to do to avoid it is keep moving...which of course means you won't be able to AS without fear of getting AS'd yourself. Sound like fun? Remember..just keep moving.

[ QUOTE ]
People are forced to team enough in PvE already.

[/ QUOTE ] And yet you think it's fun to force only CoH players to team in PvP?

[ QUOTE ]
No one is forcing you to enter PvP zones alone or with a team that does not have the necessary powers/skills to help combat stalkers.


[/ QUOTE ] So one AT should be allowed to preclude 4 of the 5 AT's from playing PvP solo? Who gets to do that to the Villians? What AT in CoH forces 4 out of 5 AT's to team in CoV? It sure as hell ain't blasters.

[ QUOTE ]
and then come back and tell us how "easy" it is.

[/ QUOTE ] Who cares? I don't care if it's easy or not...the point is that it isn't fun on the Hero side. That's what matters. If the devs feel that Stalkers should have that effect on CoH PvP...then they run the risk that PvP will be underutilized. Do you think Stalkers should be the only AT to get to solo in PvP? What gives Stalkers that right?

Are you so blind as to not see the animosity this situation has created? Is anyone complaining about Brutes, Dominators, Corruptors, Masterminds to the same degree? Do you really think the devs are smart just to turn a blind-eye and ignore all the people that are unhappy about PvP based soley on Stalkers?

We'll see what happens.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its silly, the only people who want the one shotting to stay is stalkers and scrappers. PvP is pointless if all you do is get attacked from behind by some sissy assasain strike bull, and i hope states nerfs the hell out of ya'

[/ QUOTE ]

It's funny how an entirely inclusive statement such as "the only..." or "all..." are RARELY accurate.

I'm a blaster, I'm a stalker. I want one-shotting to stay.

If my blaster can NOVA and one-hit kill people and be vulnerable afterwards... So should my stalker. Difference is that my blaster requires ONE power to do it without insp., and my stalker requires two.

[/ QUOTE ]If AA drained all your endurance...then I don't think you'd see this discussion.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Trick Question. The answer doesn't matter. It has the same psychological effect that a one-shot does.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo. This was exactly my point.

PvP is a very fine balance and there are a lot of ways to creatively combine powers for extreme effect. Assassin Attacks, while powerful, are only the most visable (irony?) example. There are others which are worse and whatever solution we come up with for 'The one shot problem' has to address as many variations as we can identify.

[/ QUOTE ]

I submit...it is not the one-shot that is the problem, it is the feeling that one cannot avoid the one shot and the constant annoyance of reoccuring attempts. I have no issue with running up to a blaster and getting killed by all the mines he or she has laid down. I'd have a problem if that blaster could use an "invisible hand" and get me from anywhere on the map....and there were ridiculously few powers or ways to stop it.

I don't have a problem if I see a brute teamed with three Kinetics Corruptors ...who fire Fulcrum Shift...and I get one shot.

While in Siren's, I get TP Foe'd into a throng of MM's with Tar Patch and minions ..good for them. I saw where they set up and stayed out of range.

But getting one-shot when you can't see the target...or knowing that if the one-shot misses, you still won't be able to defeat the target is not "Fun" (tm) for anyone but the person doing the killing.

It's fun to fight Stalkers who can one-shot me...provided that I can see them...and have an opportunity to stop the one shot...even when I don't succeed and still get one-shotted.


But the inviso + one-shotting + escaping feels like griefing = not Fun.

I am curious why Stalkers can one-shot squishies...but squishies can't one-shot stalkers? Wouldn't that be a fair trade off for PvP?....risk=reward?

As you point out...trying to stop "one-shotting" is a like chasing your tail. There is no functional difference between getting one-shotted versus ten shotted if you feel like you have no recourse in either situation.

However, I have never heard people on my team complain, not even squishies, when they get one-shotted by monsters or AV's. We know where the threat is, we elected to fight that threat, we know that we could have avoided it by staying out of range, popping Lucks before we engaged, or calling for extra teammates. So the it becomes evident that the problem is not the one-shot...it is the events surrounding that experience.

Trick Question: Why not put Stealth + Hide mobs with Assassin Strike in CoH PvE missions?

So why is it suddenly "fun" for players to be exposed to that in PvP?

[ QUOTE ]
Heck, if villains ever get into Paragon proper, now we'll know to hide near the ferry on PI.

*Does a respec next to the vendor*

*Notices she is now on the opposite side of the island*

[/ QUOTE ]Rachel Torres in Galaxy would also be a good place to hide in the open from Stalkers.

[ QUOTE ]
only to have my AS interupted because the damn headless chicken npcs that run thru the bank push me out the way.

[/ QUOTE ] hmmm.....

Castle, is there any way to bring these NPCS's to the PvP zones?