Memphis_Bill

Errrrr.r..... no.

SOME rare salvage sells consistently for 1-2 mill, yes. That's been dropping, in some cases, but you can still usually get at least around a mill for *some* pieces. The "Old Faithfuls" - deific weapons, mu vestments, chronal skips, pangaean soil, etc. tend to be here.

OTHER rare salvage sells for less than the 5k you could vendor it for. (Heads Up display, I believe, falls into this category.)

Don't just assume Rare = Million dollar sale.

Then she shouldn't be phrasing it as "This is how it was then, and how it should be used through the end of time," which is how it's coming across. And seems to continue doing so with statements like:

meaning the thought of *closing* with them - or turning it off - sure didn't seem to occur to her. Or:
... ignoring the clumping you can do with Force Bubble which they may not otherwise do. They Do tend to spread out or go places you don't want them to. Or some - like snipers - won't move at all, again, spreading out the spawn.

And that she seems to want to make some point about repel vs kb, when she seems to be mistaking the powers I talk about pulsing (Repulsion Field vs Force Bubble) is just *cute.*

She's sure indicating that she *plays* that way, after all. Because - or at least this is how I read it - Statesman, years ago, said so. Because "That's the design intention."

Like that's ever stopped anyone.

Side note, it's been found some male widow spiders wait for the female to have eaten something so they can get away without being dinner.

And armors were meant to be on one at a time, with (IIRC) Rooted actually *rooting* you. Does that mean that's how we should run them now, and that people running more than one are "doing it wrong?"

"Design intention" 7 years ago doesnt' really mean much. Especially when, as you say:

And yet their use CAN, regardless of "Design Intent." Hell, "Design intent" had SOs being rare, with stores hidden, "Power 10" in contacts, forcing us to trade.

Jack also "gushed" over losing repeatedly to a boss on his Nintendo Gameboy or DS or whatever it was and wanted COH to give that same experience. Jack said several things that were multi-facepalm-buy-stock-in-Tylenol stupid, *even at the time they were said.*

For example, "Range is defense." And "Hey, blasters now have Defiance 1.0. Tell the team not to heal you!"

Jack's been gone several years now. It's time to move on to how it's best used NOW, not what someone might have thought 7-10 years ago.

This, actually.

I find most powers useful, even ones most people go "That needs to be pulled from the game." But sonic repulsion... I've tried to come up with some reason to use it. I've got several Sonic Resonance characters - two at 50. So I've had time to play with the set in pretty much every situation.

I actually can't think of a single time I'd use this.

The only use I can find for it is "I have more slots than I need, I can burn 2 or 3 and fit a Knockback set in here for 3 points of KB protection." As the *ONLY* real use. I've never had a time since Issue 5 where I thought, "Hey, I'd like to put some repelling rings on someone ELSE and have them do whatever and knock stuff away!"

Solo, this is useless. I can't put it on myself. As a Controller, I don't want to put it on my pets. Either that or I have everything immob'd, so it wouldn't do anything but cost END. As a Defender or Corruptor, I don't have anything to put it ON.

... actually, Masterminds MIGHT have a use for this, if pet AI were better, but even then there are better options.

If I could put them on ME, so I could corner some mobs and keep them there, it'd be much more useful. But I'd never want to put this on someone *else.*


Also, as far as bugging me... the entire Illusion set.

From the heal-back "Illusory Damage" to the twin Invisibilities (really? What were they thinking?) to the early-and-useless AOE hold to the easily-chased-from AOE Fear to the cornerstone "you WILL be building for recharge whether you want to or not" Phantom Army, the set just annoys the hell out of me. When I have to pick a secondary in order to *regain* some control (Trick Arrow, with a decent AOE soft control, immob, a hold to stack, etc.) there's something wrong.

... um.... OK.

Then again, people were complaining about Trapdoor with their IO'd out characters while I was (and still am) beating him with just plain old SOs, too.

Don't stop moving. The glowies are "clicked" very fast. Two lucks will get you through any aggro, unless you're insisting on running at +4x8 or something, in which case, it's your own damn fault.

I've outrun the ambushes every time but the first - and that's because I stopped to screw around with the mobs. Hell, grab temp stealth, position yourself out of aggro range and click. Not hard to do. They tend to be pretty spread out, or leave a "dead spot" near the glowie.

Winchester: Let me be frank...
Houlihan: I beg your pardon?



That, and really, this gives a few cautions. (Have to enjoy BA.) Also a link to the paper, apparently.

Except she misses one thing - and I don't just mean the "FF is supposed to be on constantly," which I do not agree with, any more than having hurricane on constantly.

Yes, the game has turned into AOE-smash-a-thon. But Force Bubble, which she points out as "spreading things out," is also better than hurricane (thanks to its wider "catch" area) at compressing mobs into corners and the like to *prepare* them for AOE. Plus, being a repel (not KB,) it will even work on AOE-immob'd mobs. Have a bunch spread out in a line because the controller hit that too soon? Get over and mop them up, shove them together, and enjoy.

Flipside being that Repulsion Field moves with the person using it. You will note, though, that when I said blocking I mentioned Force Bubble.
Soooo... don't use it with those powers. Alternately, and more usefully, use it to shove the mobs *together* into a corner so they're packed nice and tightly for Haze and Irradiate.

This falls under "You're doing it wrong," to be blunt. You don't leave Force Bubble on 24/7, any more than you do hurricane.

You team, right?

You *are* aware that you can *walk closer* as you push them into a wall, corner, crates and the like, right? And they cannot move into melee range as you do?

Fortunately that's not the case for everyone, and there's the whole 1-49 game as well. Not everyone screws with IOs, has Barrier up permanently and the like.

Straw man.

Not least because it requires investment in another pool people may not be interested in.

"No one" is false.

I note you don't bother to answer anything I asked. Again. And choose to ignore the examples given. Again.

Which, to me, indicates your mind is made up and you will not take ANY evidence that people do use it effectively. I could waste my time setting up a video and I'd probably get the same BS arguments back about "Oh, look, that's SO SITUATIONAL it doesn't matter, I never see that" and what not.

So, y'know what, you go on hating and sticking your fingers in your ears, I'm not wasting my time on you any more with this.

OK. Again.

1. Do you agree that someone using Bonfire can block a doorway?
1a. Have you seen it done?
1b. Would you believe someone who said that was possible when they SAID it was, or would you insist on a video?


2. Do you agree that someone with Hurricane can keep mobs pinned in a corner, nicely set up for AOE, and/or push them into things like debuff patches?
2a. Have you seen it done?
2b. Would you believe it without someone having to post a video?

3. Do you agree that knocking *down* a spawn can be useful more than once-in-a-while? Especially if it has some other effect(s) such as disorient, slows, etc?
3a. Have you seen it done?
3b. Would you believe someone who said it was useful or would you insist on a video first?


If you can believe, *at face value,* any of those statements without insisting on a video, WHY are you being so pigheaded about it with force field? When Force Field does ALL of those things? Hell, you say you do some of the same things Force Bolt does with Nemesis Staff - so you KNOW what the Nem Staff can do, and Force Bolt does it faster (recharge wise) than NS does. FB +NS do nothing but *complement* each other, for that matter.

Is it SO hard to believe, for instance, that my Earth/FF controller will knock something that WASN'T in an earthquake/VG/QS patch (or managed to get out) back INTO it with Force Bolt? Or that she'll push an otherwise spread out group that's been immobilized into a nice, tight pack with Force Bubble? Is this REALLY such an incredibly difficult concept you won't believe it without a video? Or that my FF/DP Defender will use Repulsion Field - just having to "blip" it - to knock enemies that go after HER back towards something else, when Force Bubble's radius would be too large? Or that my Bots/FF Mastermind will use Force Bubble to keep things out of melee for his Ranged pets, and Force Bolt on things that get too close? These are just standard, everyday usage - no "infinite skill" hyperbolic nonsense needed.

Seriously. *What the hell* is so hard to believe about these that you need video proof?

On top of it, I find *more* of the set useful SOLO than I do some other, more highly praised sets like Thermal. And not just on my mastermind. Solo, my Dark/Therm Corruptor used *three* powers - the heal at Tier 1, and the two debuffs at 35-38. That's an AWFUL lot of unused set. My FF/DP defender? PFF, Dispersion, Detention, Force Bolt, Repulsion - and with another few levels, RBomb and Force Bubble. Yes, that means the solo build will only be lacking *two* powers - the ally shields. And yet Thermal is praised as one of the decent sets while FF is slammed? Really?

Huh. Could've sworn I was reading its info while downloading and it was only allowing fresh installs.

... either way, yeah, this early I'd use a VM anyway.

That would make sense, actually. (Especially in an "X is useless!" thread.) Seems to be a recurring theme in anything dealing with knockback, it seems.

Yep. Cameo with a bunch of others - I *think* it was the end of the "Recluse steals everyone's power" arc.

... ok, I've told you flat out how I use it. I'm not sure why you're insisting you "need a video" to understand the usefulness of the powers. Like I said, if I claimed to be soloing AVs using nothing but Force Bolt or something, I could understand the claim causing rather a lot of doubt - that would be rather "out there." But they're fairly simple examples saying "I do this here."

Honestly, I end up having to think about where I use the various powers, because they're just so ... how can I put it, work-a-day, when using the set, I don't really have to think "oh, NOW I use Force Bubble... ok, now I use Force Bolt... Repulsion Field, go!" As opposed to "This is an opportunity to use a nuke," say, where the downside (the crash) is noticable enough to have to think about use.

I mean, if I told you I used Bonfire to block a door, would you insist you need a video to figure out someone using it that way? I see it a fair amount, personally. Or how about pinning mobs to a corner with Hurricane or (fewer mobs, of course) Repel? You must have seen that, right? So why would you need a video of me using, say, Force Bubble to do the same thing before you believe it? Hell, play Redside, watch a Ballista knock enemies back with Repulsion Field - then imagine someone with an actual *brain* doing it, toggling it on and off as needed.

Not being snarky... but so what? The point being that yes, I *do* use those powers in that way. They're part of why I choose the set overall when I do. I don't play a set for a single power. I play for the entire set. I don't *care,* for instance, that Cold also gives shields if I want to also have the ability to position (in a few different ways) or provide a mez protection bubble - Cold can't do that for me. Similarly, if I'm going for a cold theme (concept again) or want to do END recovery, I won't look at FF. If I want to stay at range, I won't look at Kinetics. And so forth. And there are times that FF fits just what I'm looking for.

I don't care that "other powers sub in reasonably well" if they aren't part of a set with the capabilities I want. People want to praise Cold - and yes, it's a good set - but it doesn't give me the mez protection of Dispersion Bubble, for instance.

I pick the sets that *over all* do what I want. I don't sit and obsess over spreadsheets or multi-billion post-50 IO builds (especially since those do me no good from 1-49) looking for that last 1% defense or whatnot.

The examples I gave earlier are not. They're what I use 1-50. (Or at least power-availability-level to 50.)

Sonic Repulsion. (Which, IMHO, *IS* a weird and probably among the top 10 least-taken powers.)

And in another odd-selection, Repulse (recently changed) from Stalker energy aura.

They've added them, just not in ways that actually made sense. (Really, who ARE you going to put an ally-only Repel toggle on? This is one I've *tried* to come up with a scenario to use, and really can't.)

Show me where I've said that. Go on. Find me a quote saying "No, Force Fields is absolutely perfect and doesn't need a buff." I'm saying I *find it quite useful as is." IE, "No, it's not useless like some people want to paint it."

I'd say I'll wait for you to find that quote about me being against a buff, but it'd be like waiting to spontaneously turn blue with yellow diamonds containing pink leprechaun hats. You asked for examples of people using knockback powers as part of their "long term" (which I read as 1-50) strategy. I gave you *precisely what I do.* No mention one way or the other of any opinion of buffs, for or against. Just WHAT I DO.

Your alternative is to say "I'm sorry, I must have misread or gotten you confused with somebody else, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth." After all, even though I find a set useful, why would I argue *against* a buff that doesn't DEcrease or eliminate current usefulness?

And yet I use them on my FFers on a fairly regular basis. Not a "parlor trick" any more than a controller cycling a hold is. Of course, I *don't* use it where it's not appropriate (IE, target through tank - use Force Bolt. I'll use Repulsion Bomb for an AOE knockdown and chance-to-stun instead.)

And do tell me how the benefits I listed (such as slotting for accuracy or proccing - things that are seen as *beneficial* in other powers) are "parlor tricks." I wasn't aware knockdown protection was gotten for *laughs* instead of, oh, not being knocked down.

What I *AM* against is nose-in-the-spreadsheet whining about "OMG, why is this set even around still, it sucks, I see no point to it, everyone should love having ALL shielding sets playing almost the exact same way, why would anyone roll this!" posts.

What I'm seeing from you in part, though, is a subtext that I see a fair bit from people - namely, "Knockback sucks!" And every time I hear that, the examples I tend to hear point not toward Knockback sucking - but towards someone using knockback poorly. (IE, "So they hop in the middle of the spawn and send everything flying!" or "So melee has to chase it down.") I've seen tanks without taunt or offense built as a "healer" (yeah, that's painful to think of.) But I don't point at that and go "Tanks suck!" I point at that and say "Bad player." Knockback, for whatever reason, isn't deemed worthy of the same consideration - it's not "That was a bad player, they kept KBing the tank's target," it's "Knockback sucks and is never useful."

If someone's targeting through the tank and using force bolt (for instance,) or hopping in right beside them with Repulsion Field on, yes, I *WILL* say "They're doing it wrong." But the times people are "doing it right" (since it's *helping* the team) tend not to be commented on, since they don't stick out.

IIRC, it's not going to be dual-bootable, if you have that in mind. So if you can't dedicate that machine to Win8DP (broken record time,) get Virtualbox and put it in there.

/thinks the folks making Virtualbox should pay me a commission at this point.
//oh, wait, it's free...