Max_zero

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Well, I for one have a heck of a lot of fun with my Necro/Poison MM.


Just saying...

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To be honest you can pretty much do fine with anything in CoH. The game is just so easy.

I come from a more min maxer sort of view.

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Or you could learn to play your bots and utilize the KB effectively instead of feeling like you have to fight against it.

but you know...to each his own

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I even hear some people take Scorpions cone for even more knockback!

or use the knockup/-back powers from FF to... control

And in the end, they use force wall to pin the mobs against walls, so all that knockback is basically knockdown, and the whole gang is nicely stacked on on the burn patches and the other AoE goodness.

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And what about my other points? Or do you just pick the points you think you have an answer and ignore the rest hoping no one will notice?

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Now that Handclap is Knock up, the only set with KB issues is Bots.

Quite a big issue since Bots rely so much on Burn patch damage.

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use Electifying Fences from Mu Mastery, stops knockback.

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I do but, to be honest, Fences suck. Short range (40) and a tiny radius (10). Unless the mods are shoulder to shoulder you can barely get more then 2 or 3. The Black Scorpion AOE is 15 yards (which for circles translates into more then double the area).

Bots are the only primary that HAS to go with Mu.

Since I have come back to CoH Thugs I have noticed:

1. 2 extra Pet Auras (along with Necro)
2. Handclap being KU
3. Bruiser AI much better (hardly use my GoTo anymore)
4. Hurl Boulder much faster animation time

Thugs were a top set before, now they are better then ever. Basically all the problems the set had have been reduced or eliminated.

Now that Handclap is Knock up, the only set with KB issues is Bots.

Quite a big issue since Bots rely so much on Burn patch damage.

Unfortunately the recent CoH inflation has left my lowbie Thug/Traps relatively poor i'm almost softcapped on Def as well.

3 lvl 30 IOs in FFG, 2 in Enforcers and only one unique. If I can get my hands on a 2nd i'll be at around 48 Def. That means i'll be able to drop one of the +Def IOs in Enforcers (slots are tight with them).

Yeah but Necro is fairly meh as Primaries go.

Before I took some time off CoH (about 9 months) Bots used to be able to compete with Thugs because you could put the Force Feedback unique in the ABot. While he did go crazy sometimes he would absolutely spam missiles. Since he is by far your biggest damage dealers as Bots it was a big deal. While he is still good now you certainly feel the lag time between missile launches.

The other thing Bots had was unrivaled survivability but with Thugs getting access to the 2 new pet uniques its not so clear anymore. Thugs can easily pass hit and pass the def softcap which is a big deal since the last 5% of defense really do make a big difference.

Bots and Thugs used to be neck and neck. But with Bots getting their damage reduced and Thugs getting tougher there is a gap now.

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You vastly overestimate the "annoyance" of knockback and underestimate its mitigation power.

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This.

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It may sound like it, but I am not saying that thugs pwns everything. However, it has most of the advantages of bots and mercs combined but none of the disadvantages.

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Disadvantages in Bots, when compared to Thugs? Not seeing em.

Thugs is DPS, first and foremost.
Control: Bruiser - 2 ST Stuns, 2 AoE stuns

Buffs: Double Maneuvers from Enforcers.

Bots:
Control: Photon Grenade
AssBot: ST Stun, AoE Stun
ProtBot: Photon Grenade, up to 4 Seeker Drones

Buff: Repair Robot
ProtBot: Force Shields (partially stacked), Heal

While Thugs might be stronger in the DPS department, it's survivability is way below Bots. Now... what advantages aside from DPS (argueable) do Thugs have?

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The double Maneuvers don't need to be constantly refreshed plus both T2 pets get double stacks.

Gang War > Repair because Gang War can take the two recharge pet uniques giving your pets +10 Resistance and +5% defense. No other primary can do that.

I'm working on getting a IOed Thugs/Traps to try and see how it compares with my IOed Bots/Trap.

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Thugs do a massive amount of AE to and not just lethal. It was a post a few weeks back with a spreadsheet showing damage comparably.

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Well in theory. I have both a Bot and a Thug post 32 and to be honest I tend to get more overall *consistent* damage from the Bots.

Having most of their damage coming from Assault Bot gives a number of advantages:

1) Can focus your best/rare IOs in one pet.
2) Can get setup faster (since you really only need 1 pet)
3) Even lvl pet means more damage, less misses and a better chance to survive a counter attack. Remember all that Burn damage will cause a lot of threat. Id rather a T3 pet taking the hits then a T1.
4) Fewer stupid AI bugs.

Add to that being all ranged and clumped together means you don't get spread out for buffs/heals.

I'm not saying thugs are bad, they are much stronger pre 32.

But after 32 Bots basically have it all.