MasterGabriel

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I can see the individual IO's remaining at the price they are, but lower the random rolls to the same amount of merits that a Katie TF would give.

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I am no merit system cheerleader but I have to disagree with this one. Katie is too quick for a full drop. Sorry, I hate saying it because I love that taskforce and it was the best choice for a taskforce where the casual and the hardcore player could get together and enjoy themselves. I think Hess at 15 would be a better standard for the taskforce random roll. this would open it up to villains who have very few taskforces above 15 merits as well as revitalize the market.

I think this measure would help fix the problems with the merit system but it would not be a complete cure as much as a way to stem the bleeding.

Master Gabriel

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They also removed the XP award from the Respec trials. (Took me until 2 days ago to realize that.)

So before you could choose a respec or the combination of a Recipe and XP. Now they give you the same respec choice, or a reward of fewer Merits than a Pool D recipe plus zero XP.

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Is the game really coming to this? Is this what the Dev vision is an XP grind and a gear grind. If I wanted to play WOW I would get a trial account. The promise of merit rewards was for us being able to earn recipes doing whatever we were doing. I did not want a gear grind, nor did a lot of other players. I should hope we can get some Dev response on this. A lot of very valid points have been made about how merit rewards works in live. Dev response is the next step.

Master Gabriel

I think you are over stating the ease at which merits can be obtained. Though I do support your thesis of merits V. farming I think the numbers for Merits are overstated.

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There are three different leveled re-speccs, each awards about 25 merits a piece and can be done within an hour (with a good group). Also Manticore awards about 25 Merits and can be done in an hour. So if you do these 4 TFs you get 100 merits, in just 4 hours, yuo can repeat this for the next two days and end up with 300 Merits!, that is 300 merits in 12 hours of play, that is not really bad, whn you think of it.

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I run the three respecs a lot and my best times are 1.25 hrs (1 hr 15 min) with most running 1.65 (1hr 40 min) hrs. I have never gotten one done in under an hour and I do believe you are unintentionally exaggerating your times on a Respec TF. I am not intending to slight you in any way. I merely believe that you are rounding to the time that supports your conclusion.

I have not done a Manticore TF run in a long time so I am unable to present sufficient testimony to refute that statement. I do however believe that time is also unintentionally exaggerated.

I do not farm so I cannot disagree with your farming numbers. The numbers do seem reasonably accurate. I will use your rate of 1 Million influence per hour.

However even given my averages times of say 4.5 hrs for the 3 respec trials and a Manticore run of say 1.75 hrs (1hr 45 min) your method is still better than farming merits by a large percentage margin 18.75 hrs for merit method V. 60 hrs for farming.

oh and with your theory of repeating the Respec Trifecta and Manticore every day for three days diminishing returns could be a problem since you may accidentally finish one or more within 24 hours of the last run which will cut your merit rate in half.

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But I see a lot of pro market folks, slamming the merit system, do they have a conflict of interests? You bet they do.

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Actually I see a lot of Pro Merit folks exhibiting the same behavior and since they have decided the "Market is Evil" they also have a bias. Pro-Meriteers have just as much a conflict of interest as Marketeers as they both have a bias. Both sides biases however are not enough to invalidate the truth in their statements.

I believe it is not the Devs intent to replace the markets with Merits but rather that the two supplement each other.

Master Gabriel

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Actually, the new Recharge Intensive Pet recipe is usable at level 18 by Illusion controllers. The previously existing IO sets weren't particularly useful for Phantom Army, but Call to Arms is.

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Still that is one power out of one set. I agree with you that the biggest problem with low level sets is shelf life. you simply outlevel them too fast.

Master Gabriel

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*Cost Scaling versus Level (Excluding +Special Recipes): A Level 20 Acc/Dmg is not going to be as long term applicable to a character as a Level 30 Acc/Dmg, Level 40 Acc/Dmg, or Level 50 Acc/Dmg. Also, the time required to possibly earn enough Merits to buy lower level Recipes is enormously disproportional to the cost for anything other than a Level 50 character (or a character that has stopped level advancement.)

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I agree any set that caps under 50 (touch of death) or any recipe under level 30, except procs, should only be worth half as many merits as a level 50 IO recipe. The enhancement bonuses are significantly smaller or the set bonuses are usually not quite as good as a higher level set. these recipes definitely have a more limited lifespan than others and should be priced accordingly.

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*What is suppose to be the "Obvious" in-game difference between a Random Trial Recipe and a Random Taskforce Recipe other than cost? On what criteria should a player evaluate this in-game (beyond out-of-game web searching). Would it make more sense just to roll Trial and Taskforce into the same Rare Random Recipe Roll, rather than keep the now outmoded categorizations?


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I agree with your logic but come to a different conclusion. I would like to see the recipes divided up into 5 pools as per my previous post.

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*I feel that if merits are too hard to come by during regular game play, that I will simply horde the merits til either I can earn a garanteed hard-to-get, marketed over-priced recipe that does not loose its character value as the character progresses (like a +Special Recipe), or keep all merits earned from levels 1 to 47, to simply spend them to help, flush out a level 50 build.

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Right now hoarding for level 50 or + special recipes are the only cost effective uses for merits. Having the lower level sets is near useless because we can't afford them until we have outleveled them.

Master Gabriel

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It may be that the Merits needed for Random Rolls is too high, or maybe it's about right and no one wants another Blood Mandate or Call of the Sandman over and over and over....

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The problem might also be that there are not enough pools to draw from and Pool C is too inundated with specialized junk that are not useful to 70% or more of the builds in play. The Pool System creates an artificial imbalance in supply and demand.

One can only assume that the devs want the player base to use merits and the market to IO out characters, otherwise why would the market still be here? The problem is the pools are too big a gamble.

I mean hero side there is no use for pet damage drops below level 32 yet there they are. According to Paragon Wiki Pool C (Taskforces) contains 103 different types of recipes yet most of those are very specific use. Compare that to the pool D list (Trials) which has 8 different recipes and they are all except the snipe generally considered useful. I think a good answer would be to combine pool C and Pool D and divide up the total into 5 categories. I would then give these pools a price based on the commonality of usage (which is largely subjective without intense data-mining)

The pools I would go with would be

Procs
contains all procs including Numina, celerity, etc...
cost 30 merits

offensive
contains melee damage, range damage, targeted AOE, PBAOE, Pet Damage, Sniper attacks
Cost 28 merits

Defensive / debuff
Contains healing, Accurate healing, damage resist, defense,
cost 30 merits

Debuff and control
to hit debuff, defense debuff, endurance modification, taunt
cost 20 merits

Mez effects
Confuse, Sleep, Slow, Immobilize, Holds, fears, stuns, Knockback
Cost 15 merits

By allowing players a choice of pool I think the artificial barriers to supply and demand can be eroded.

Master Gabriel

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I like the idea behind the system, the general concept is pretty appealing, but I just don't feel that it was implemented very well. It just seems... forced, sort of.


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I think you are correct in that the problem with Merit Rewards is no the concept but the implementation and interactions with other game systems. One of the great strengths of this game was that grouped or solo your mission or not everyone pretty much got proportionately the same rewards. Now everything goes to the arc holder. If I wanted City of soloing I would go play a console game.

Master Gabriel

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I want to feel like this is a wash and I have what I would have had anyway - but I don't. Instead I feel like I'm once again behind for no particular reason. I ran many of those arcs - why don't I have any more merits to show for it? In the past it wouldn't have mattered - but now it does (at least psychologically). Sure I could grind to catch up - I could run solo or go back via Oro and earn some merits - but why? Why should I have to do that? Is that really the intended effect of this system? If so, then for me at least it isn't working. It is reducing my enjoyment of the game, not increasing it. But I'm not much for formless whining, so what would I like to see done? What would it take for merits to at worst be neutral and at best improve my game experience (which I would like them to do)?

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Thank you you just summed up my biggest issue with the Merit Rewards System . Before you could play however you wanted to play to get the rewards you wanted now you have to jump through a lot of hoops and solo a lot to get on story arcs. I really don't like having to say no I can't team right now I don't have your arc.

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The primary thing is to figure out some way for folks who contribute to story arcs, but who for some reason or another don't complete their own arc, to get some level of merit reward. As I mentioned above, I'd probably feel fine (neutral) if I had recieved 1/2 the merits that the arc holder did and I'd feel great (positive) if I had gotten the same number.

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I just think the simplest answer would be to have the arcs totals divided up and awarded proportionately per mission to everyone.

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* One idea that I've seen for this is to open up Oro earlier - at the start of the level band instead of at the end of it. That might help, but I'm not sure that would work for a group like ours. As I said - we have folks coming and going at all points - having to wait for arc start points to add team members would be a constraint. But it would probably be better than it is now.

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Ouroborous needs help to begin with. I would like to see a way to add or remove members of a team every so often because most of the longer arcs become near impossible to complete with pick up teams. These arcs simply take too long to complete with pick up teams. I suppose I would like to see save points put in where a team leader can recruit new members and kick old ones who are offline. My namesake finished all of his mission arcs years ago and has to run anything but Tf's through Ouroborous. The flashback system makes teaming rough for anything but the smallest arcs.

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* Another step would be to allow more control over the contacts and the missions they give out. I'd have more merits today (and be happier) if that darned Shark's contact had given me the fraking arc mission instead of a bunch of drek. This is a long standing bug that in the past made no real difference - not so much now - it needs to be fixed.

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Here I think is the core problem with the merit system and story arcs. Hero side all of the expansion zones such as Striga, Croatoa, and RWZ the contact will talk to you without introduction but in the original content zones as well as all of villainside you have to get introduced and then run the right arc and jump through hoops ad nauseum to get to team and get merits. All of the contacts should act like they do in the hero side expansion zones. All of the contacts should offer you thier story arcs right away and the story arcs should be offered plainly and linearly. If the contact system was working in a compatible fashion with Merit rewards i don't think this would be a problem with anyone.

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* Another idea would be to spread the merit awards out and simply give them for each non-paper/mayhem mish. That would provide the most flexibility in team formation and encourage running contacts (as opposed to grinding papers/scanners).

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This is also a simple answer and one that is possibly worth the danger of merit farming. Not that I have a problem with merit farming. I think people should be allowed to play the way they want as long as it does not hurt anyone else. I could see a the Devs having a problem with people auto-completing through arcs and getting double merits but hey a few more merits isn't going to hurt me.

Master Gabriel

Objective Feedback

Keep an eye on his post as it will be edited and added to as time permits

Merits In General
OBJECTIVE FEEDBACK
The transition to the merit system is a good idea in concept since it allows greater selection in choosing how a player gets the rewards they want . In Issue 12 anyone wanting Pool C or D recipes had to either run Taskforces and / or trials or earn influence to buy them off the market. Now players can run through Story arcs to slowly accumulate merits to get the rewards they want. This change does help casual players who want to use the invention but do not have all the time in the world to run taskforces or who cannot stand the monotony of farming. Greater flexibility among paths to a given reward will encourage most players to stay with the game as they can now play how they want to play to get the rewards they want (eventually).


Subjective Feedback
I feel the Merit system is great in concept but in operation is in need of tweaking and is let down by other support systems within the game. Due to the design of Ourobrous, Story arc contacts, changes and the Merit prices of items themselves. I will go into why each of these individual issues are letting the potential of the merit system go unrealized in more detail in other parts of this post. One of the great strengths of this game was that you basically had free market teaming. There was no holy trinity of AT's required for every mission door, through Sidekick and Exemplar options everyone could participate in a team regardless of level, Furthermore no one was required to team or solo to earn equivalent rewards. A team based character could team and would recieve experience Xp and item drops at a comparable or even greater pace than a solo based character while the solo based character would be able to control the pace of thier gaming by slowing thier rewards and completing missions solo. The rewards for completing ones own story arc were not significantly superior to discourage helping another to complete their story arc. The merit reward system as imposed on the current game system changes this dynamic.

Wow wall of text I wanted to reply to more but I only have time right now to reply on one specific issue.

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1. It's stingy. Katie Keeps Giving One Random Roll should have been a guideline. Katies were run so often because - news flash - a tiny time investment that everyone could get in on (even casual gamers) gave a nice reward. The idea, in my perception, was to expand that average 'casual gamer' group's task set beyond Katies. Reducing the reward on Katies doesn't give them incentive to try other stuff, it's just nerfing the crap out of what they were already doing. Frustrating, not productive. I'd suggest cutting the random roll prices in half as a QUICK fix, but there are better and more sweeping changes I'd prefer.


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I could not agree with you more on this point. Katie runs were the one taskforce it was easy to start up and run. Katie was the model to be used as a baseline in spirit for merit rewards as it was available for both casual players and hardcore TF runners.

Parts of it are too easy for specific teams but were PUGS. but can easily be fixed. These are my suggestions.
Mission 1 ten times the victor.
make this mission more of an endurance match that one you have defeated Mary 10 times and if the mission timer has been going less than 30 minutes add a mission objective to outlast Mary for 15 minutes as Mary and crew continuously respawn upon defeat or upon 3 minutes passing whichever comes first

Mission 2 Add a redcap Boss that can see through stealth effects same as Nemesis or Cray snipers?

Mission 3 change nothing

Mission 4 this is the big one
Ground bound Katie it is the fact that she can follow fliers that makes this mission too easy. Also make her escape cause a random mob on the map to aggro and attack her or the mission exit every couple minutes.

Master Gabriel

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I am sorry, but I do not feel as if co-op content is Villain content. It is what it is called CO-OP. It is not Villainous

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I am sorry you feel that way but until COV content becomes profitable for the business COOP is the most cost effective answer from a business model.

Villain only content appeals only to a small select portion of the player base. Now I would like to see the Shadow Shard, Faultline, Striga and Croatoa opened up to villains as Recluse tries to widen the front of his attack on Paragon city. I do not advocate making them PVP zones but rather shared zones with different content for Heroes and Villains.

Master Gabriel

Missions never change? Like Outbreak or some of the other escort missions. No they never changed.

Master Gabriel

Ooh If Bluebattler doesn't I will. This story is awesome.

Nice

Ha another great piece. I respond only to favorite them to read more. I am selfish like that.

Master Gabriel

Yeah that is a respec that I would pay for. But then I wouldn't have any more invulnerable toons. Then again neither would anyone else. Sigh.

Master Gabriel

I believe I remeber reading that the in game ads were going to be put back in development however NCSoft could decide tomorrow to put that money elsewhere as it is their money. Heck they could decide to hoard all of it and never develop new content until the game shut down. I am not saying they would but it is their cash once we've paid our subscription fee. If they want to keep those subscriptions they better keep improving the game however and they know it.

Master Gabriel

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So you´re a loooong Vet... and had to learn with your mistakes. We all do. Not doing it is stupid.

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I have to agree with you. As a long time vet I think it is my responsibility to help newer players. Supporting this move is just one more way to do that. When 90% of the "veteran players" started they had someone who helped them, I guarantee it.
Not everyone has the confidence to try to run the respec trials. I mean I can run a respec team through on my tank in an hour 15 without stealthing half the trial but not everyone knows that.

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My wish list for things to buy are:

Costume slots (more! more! more!)
Costume options! (many more!)
Funny emotes! (Yay!)


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/signed
I would like to see more purchasable options like vet reward powers and costume options. Heck I am even in the favor of officially sanctioned infamy/influence sales. The easiest way to put the spammers out of business would be to offer Influence / Infamy sales officially. Though I do draw the line at XP for sale. more balanced options equals more money equals better game.

Right now the only ones who benefit from the respec restrictions are farmers, marketeers and those shady power leveling / influence spammers. if you allow players official options you take away their demand and safeguard the customer base.

Master Gabriel

Tell me about it. I have attempted this TF twice so far. the first time was a difficult team to be sure it was a tank 6 scrappers and a brute. there was enough 50 mentors to bring everyone up. It was a gigantic wipe fest for the first mission or two. Casualties every fight, ambushes flattening us but we pressed on, adapted and got better. The Tank and one of the scrappers quit after the first mission. The 3rd mission went well but in the 4th mission we were entirely unable to damage Romy. we had a scrapper who was probably one of the best kiters ever dragging romy around but we could not separate him and the nicti. This seemed like the beat down team from hell and it struggled every step.

My second time through was myself a 50 scrapper, a 50 dominator, and a 50 crab spider with 5 barely 30's we were having to switch Sk's occassionaly but we rolled through right up to Romy where the Stone tank tried to separate them again but could not. Even though this team was not a success either it seemed to be a lot closer to this mythical ideal or we just had really good players. My point is sometimes you can never tell how these teams are gonna go.

Master Gabriel

Are you saying that if your tank pulls Romulus to the top of either the left or the right tower the Nicti cannot follow and if you break line of sight between the Nicti and Romi he will not rez? I have tried this TF twice and ech time we could not separate Rom and the Nicti in any significant way. I would like to know. I would also like to know has anyone tried detention field or the sonic equivalent on either the nictus or Romi? I made an alt specifically to use those powers for this fight and want to know if it is worth leveling the toon.

Master Gabriel

In mission 2 we discovered a way to mitigate most of the ambushes. A guy named Emperon on Champion server came up with the idea of clearing the mission of everything but cysts then take out enough cysts that you have a ratio of one per team member. split up between the remaining cysts and beat them down to a sliver of life and when everyone is ready simultaneously start your attacks. if done right the cysts should all be dead at relatively the same time and you can just mission complete exit to avoid the ambush.

Master Gabriel

Nice try for the April fools guys.

Master Gabriel

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Do you realize that alot of people play this game BECAUSE its very easy to hop in, get something done, and hop out? That is a MAJOR selling point compared to games like WoW where some of the high level raids CAN take all day, and alot of people JUST CAN'T DO THAT. As much as some of us may try to avoid it, or deny it....there is this thing called "Real Life" and sometimes is DOES interfere with our game time. Is that an exploit? It that in the manual?

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Amen to that. Power gamers with multiple accounts may make this company a chunk of change but I bet their are way more casual; players with families than twinkie min max dweebs. We pay 15 bucks a month too and their are a lot of us. We are also fairly loyal and don't cancel our subscription every time a new game comes out. Devs listen to us we are playing this game because it is casual friendly. If we wanted to play a Hardcore game we would all be playing EQ or WoW or some other pointy ear fest.

Master Gabriel

I agree totally. Al ot of my toons are pre-safeguard missions and so missed out on the badges and missions. I would really like to complete some of those missions with my older toons without hawking in Atlas Park.

Master Gabriel

OMFG it's my birthday, Christmas and free lap dance day all rolled into one. I am so impressed with the quality features to be added.

Weapon customization after years and years of player request we get this wonderful option to go with the stellar character creation system. I only hope their are a reasonable number of skins for each power and that eventually all powers will be able to mix and match colors if not animation to customize their abilities.

FLASHBACK!!!!!!!

I have been waiting for this forever I hate having to throw myself into debt and avoid teams just to go through and get all the missions for each level group. Awesome idea combining flashback with new content and awards. I am so totally impressed with your choices fo how to implement flashback.

New Powers

Dual Blades

I have been waiting for this forever. It is dual swords with different weapons options. I couldn't get happier.

Willpower



It is a new power which is good. I was very impressed with many of the choices you had on the list of possible powers. I hope you continue with this trend and eventually produce all of them.

New IO sets

Wow OK I am glad you are adding more IO sets but try to make the sets actually achievable by the casual player please. I don't have the time to farm recipes salvage and influence just to get one piece of a set. One of the strengths of this game has always been its solo friendly nature. Please continue that trend with adding IO sets and hopefully new Temp power IO's

Master Gabriel