Malrathad

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You'll be suprised what 1 web grenade can do.

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If we're bringing temporary powers into play (and given we're talking about a Stalker here, we are), there's nothing stopping the Stormer from having a breakfree Discipline running to stop the stun and a heal inspiration or two to counter the damage, making your efforts amount to nothing. Or for that matter just hyper phasing for a short bit while webbed, something I've found to be quite effective. And all this assumes the Stormer hadn't been constantly hugging you with the Hurricane in the first place, in which case your all ready low base accuracy web grenade isn't hitting, if you can even get in range for it. Web grenade ultimately amounts to a "hahaha, here I come!" for the Stormer, and if they're prepared and capable, that's not what you want.

As I said, the tactic is for less experienced, less competent Stormers, because good, well prepared ones aren't going to get shut down by it. Hurricane's best counters were always of the ranged variety, because although there WERE melee recourses, they were of the variety that good Stormers could avoid pretty effectively, and evidently the development team wasn't happy with that.

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NONE of these are major problems for a decently-outfitted team working together.

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Definitely true; none of these things were problematic when you had a moderately well put together team using tactical coordination. The majority of the PvP that happens in the game, though, isn't the sort you describe, it's people in PvP zones in random groups (at least on Infinity). To that end, they seem to be catering to the majority and altering the powers that can be a bit severe for random pickups to deal with if they dont' get lucky with team composition. Hurricane, one shotting, these things were never really issues to solid teams, but they care about more than solid teams, and I don't think that's unwise of them, though I also don't necessarily think it's wise either, I'm pretty ambivalent. A lot of people just want to log in and have fun without being ground into a wall by a hurricane, slammed in one hit by an assassin strike, etc.

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You could do that before with Teleport.

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Only if the Storm Summoner was really, really bad. People who cite this tactic seem to assume the Storm Summoner is just standing there like an idiot; the good ones remain mobile sufficiently that no, you're not just going to casually teleport in and stun them reliably. You might get lucky on occasion, but if you were regularly stomping Storm Summoners with teleport --> melee stun, they weren't being very effective.

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It's just that it took too much skill ...

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And the Storm Summoner being a poor player, which again, you leave out. Against a poor Stormer yes, prepatch you could have your way with them using what you describe. Against a good one, they're going to be too mobile for the sort of precision tactics required. I'm not saying it was impossible, but it was clearly deemed sufficiently difficult against a reasonably competent Storm Summoner that it got weakened.

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Hit Build Up.
TP next to them with ET queued....

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And then watch it not go off because they weren't stupid enough to stand there like idiots the entire time.

I still have Terp ignored; I'll assume his response was insulting and instigatory as usual due to whatever grudge he seems to have against me, and thus understandably am not going to bother with it. Hope for the rest of your sakes that I'm wrong and it was something intelligent and insightful.

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From the way it looks now though is that a melee toon can run into hurricane and get a hit in before the repel and debuffs hit them.

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Currently, my Energy/Regeneration Stalker can leap into a Hurricane and get off a stun before having his accuracy debuffed, yes. The two seem to be inflicted on the same timer as you suspect.

Personally I don't think bringing Hurricane back down to the level of other comprable powers is a bad thing. It makes room for improvements to the other powers in the set. In the past, the literal ONLY thing that was at all intimidating about a Storm Summoner was Hurricane. Now that Hurricane has been lowered to a more reasonable level in comparrison to other abilities, I hope they'll make some of the other abilities in the set more potent.

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I have squishies.

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But no Stalkers, and thus you're not seeing both sides of the issue the way you did with your Scrapper. And the results are pretty obvious.

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In every case, the Stalker stalked while in -perception (that is why they stalk). If they are seen, they flee. If not, it's Bam, 1-shot. No risk, no accomplishment.

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If trying to kill you isn't a risk, you're not in a team (or at least a totally disorganized one with people all over the place), contrary to what you said previous. Cherry picking squishies from a team that's actually using team work is just plain not a risk free endeavor. The risk can be low, it can be high, but there's always some. There's also risk going against an entirely solo squishy, but it's so minimal that I agree it's not really substantial. An Illusion/Force Field Controller, for instance, who you miss an Assassin Strike against could turn things around on you if they're much better than you, but that's not a very common occurance.

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Ditto, when I said my perma-Unstoppable Invulnerable Scrapper was "over the top" and needed something to be done about it. I was identical to a perma-Unstoppable Tanker with much, much more offense. They fixed it, alright.... lol
But, the Scrappers were far more civil, it seems. They disagreed, but man, it wasn't such a big flame fest....

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There is a reason for this. In the case of the Scrapper, you, as a Scrapper player, were making an informed comment about something you yourself benefitted from. Thus your points were undoubtedly thought out and had a valid perspective to them.

In this case, you're making repeated uninformed misconstruances about something you yourself have never played. How can you honestly expect the same response?

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I come back and POW; too many 12-year olds with a loaded gun

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Repeatedly saying juvenille th ings like this while avoiding the question of why is really starting to make you seem no better than a twelve year old yourself Buffy. But given your implict admission of that there's really no point in hassling you about it. Enjoy your insults and hate mongering towards the Stalkers who you are unable to cope with, good day.

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Well, my Super Reflex Scrapper can survive for long periods of time when health is in the red, so hit points is not that important.

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Listen to what you just said. Your Super Reflex Scrapper can survive for long periods of time with health in the red. If you can survive that long from red to dead, think about how long it would take you to go from green to yellow, and so forth. Not AS long, given Super Reflexes gains more bonuses as it gets closer to dead, but still quite a bit longer. Those bonuses also kick in SOONER for you than for a Stalker in terms of "total health left," because you've got more total health.

As I said, defenses are health multipliers. The more health you have, the more successful hits you can live through, and thus the more that defense benefits you. Which would you prefer, taking 3 hits to kill and getting hit 20% of the time, or taking 5 hits to kill and getting hit 20% of the time? The obvious answer is the latter; stop trying to represent Stalkers as being as well defended as Scrappers, it's just not true. Scrappers get more benefit out of EVERY shared defensive set. Saying hit points are not important is just plain ridiculous, more hitpoints is ONLY a good thing, and no amount of you trying to downplay that will change the fact that in a situation where a Stalker has died, a Scrapper may well have lived to get away, or even win due to their extra health.

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Placate is a powerful tool for escape or controlled critical.

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Yes, yes it is, for a controlled critical, or escape from ONE person. If you have two people on you, placate's substantially inferior at promoting escape. If you've got 3, it's even less so, and so on. Every single time you talk about Stalkers and how you feel they are unfair, you talk about a solo environment, which isn't all that common, and only a small part of the picture. Why do you feel misrepresenting the situation through these specific criteria of discussion is a positive aim?

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I wouldn't downplay the defenses or the Placate power so much, unless I was a Stalker, I guess.

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Or unless you had used it much in PvP, I guess. A number of players on my server can continue attacking me after being placated as if it didn't exist. It hits one target, has a comparatively slow cooldown, and breaks on ANY sort of aggression against the target. I can get a free critical with it, I can use it to help me escape one foe, I can use it to stop certain foes from hitting me with targetted attacks for a brief period. It's useful, but it's not something "that makes your foe unable to fight back" the way you describe it. That, Buffy, is yet another misrepresentation.

Once again with your posting you've tried to unfairly misrepresent Stalkers as they exist in real PvP. Thus I'm forced to repeat myself, since you ignored my question last time:

It's not like they (Stalkers) are going to get weakened based on commentary anyone such as a developer would obviously see as only telling part of the story, so it can only be to delude other people and stir up Stalker hate. Why do you feel that is a positive aim?

Why DO you feel it's a positive aim to promote Stalker hate? You've been doing it on every forum I've seen you post in, forcing it into any applicable discussion. Why is that a positive aim in your eyes? Why do you want to stir up hate and upset?

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Do you know where it would be imposslbe to use? 1v1...but wait!!! PvP isn't so supposed to be about 1v1 is it? So why is Castle trying to protect 1v1 only for Stalkers? This is the real impact of a dual range check. It kills AS for repeated use in 1v1 battles when someone knows a stalker is present.

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Oh, if a Stalker misses with AS, Hide drops. What happens when a Stalker's hide drops? Why don't we start simple, and walk through the argument here.

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They run away..

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Only the ones that want a no risk, 1-shot kill will run away. The others know that they have (1) Scrapper's defense, (2) Scrapper's status-effect resistance, (3) 90% of Blaster's damage, (4) Placate so you can't fight back, (5) Almost on-demand critical

If a Stalker runs-away when AS misses or fails to one-shot you, they are only playing to gank, in my opinion.

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Your opinion is based on a totally biased, uninformed state of mind though. By example, in a number of posts, keep screaming about how Stalkers have Scrapper level defenses. We DO NOT have Scrapper level defenses, because of our lower health. All defenses DO is let you get more value out of the health you've all ready got. Less health = less value out of defenses, lower "overall survivability." It's really that simple; having the same PERCENTAGES doesn't equal the same overall in play defensive capability when health isn't identical. Further comments like "On demand criticals" and "Placate so they can't fight back," illustrate again your misrepresentation of the situation. Placate is AT BEST a pause button in terms of "making them unable to fight back," since it ends when you hit THEM; you can't just keep someone placated constantly, and you can't keep them placated WHILE beating on them. Further, Placate and your opening attack give you the only two criticals you're going to get "on demand," and good foes can even STOP you from getting the second one. I'd hardly call that "on demand criticals," I'd call it "about a maximum of 2 criticals, assuming a poorly built foe." What on earth is on demand about that?

A Blapper can 3 shot my Stalker WITHOUT Defiance coming into play. If I miss my Assassin Strike against a good Blapper, "staying to scrap" is a death sentence. No amount of you totally misrepresenting the situation will change that. The same is true of most Scrappers. The same is true of ANYONE grouped, which MOST people are; staying 3 on 1 after you missed your Assassin Strike isn't effective most of the time.

Why, then, are you so desparate to misrepresent the Stalker situation? It's not like they are going to get weakened based on commentary anyone such as a developer would obviously see as only telling part of the story, so it can only be to delude other people and stir up Stalker hate. Why do you feel that is a positive aim?

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If anyone is at risk they will run. A Stalker just has so many more tools at their disposal not to have to run.

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No, no they don't. That's what you don't bloody get, having never played a Stalker any substantial amount in PvP. A Stalker who doesn't feel they are at substantial risk isn't going to run. What makes YOU a better judge of what puts a Stalker at risk than the Stalker himself? I mean, if you REALLY believe all the things you're saying in this post, then yes, I can see why you'd think Stalkers wouldn't have run as often as they do, as your version of Stalkers are unhittable, constantly criticalling god beasts. Real Stalkers, on the other hand, live in a much different set of conditions than what you care to make them out to be in.

The following skills are skills in my primary set I use more in Siren's Call PvP than Assassin Strike:

-Energy Transfer
-Bonesmasher
-Stun
-Placate
-Build Up

That leaves precisely one skill in my primary set less used than Assassin Strike in Siren's Call PvP: Energy Punch.

Why is this? Because I maximize my kill count by using those other skills as much as I do. It's all well and good to take Assassin Strike kills when you CAN, but I'm just plain unwilling to limit myself, and I see a LOT more openings in an average day for a Bonesmasher/Energy Transfer combination than for an Assassin Strike smackdown.

You just don't know what you're talking about, ultimately. Like most Stalker detractors who haven't actually played Stalkers any meaningful amount -- if at all -- you lack any sort of real perspective on the issue, and judge based on vague notions you've acquired over time instead of any hard data or solid experience.

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which means you see the Stalkers that don't also run Stealth....which by and large are the lower skill ones.

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I actually feel in the long run TAKING Stealth induces a lower overall skill level. I for one -- and I know at least a few other Stalkers I've spoken to have made a similar choice -- have deliberately foregone Stealth simply to make us less reliant on it. And in all honesty, it's worked to quite an extent in my estimation.

I feel the fact that I actually can and DO get off Assassin Strikes against foes who can see me through precision means (generally leaping from out of their line of sight directly behind them and executing the strike the second I can, leaving them absolute minimum time to respond) makes me a better Stalkers than the ones who desparately rely on going entirely unseen. It's impossible to remain fully hidden from a well made team, and the good Stalker I assert adapts that into his tactics rather than relying further on the dead end that is stealth.

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which means you see the Stalkers that don't also run Stealth....which by and large are the lower skill ones.

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I actually feel in the long run TAKING Stealth induces a lower overall skill level. I for one -- and I know at least a few other Stalkers I've spoken to have made a similar choice -- have deliberately foregone Stealth simply to make us less reliant on it. And in all honesty, it's worked to quite an extent in my estimation.

I feel the fact that I actually can and DO get off Assassin Strikes against foes who can see me through precision means (generally leaping from out of their line of sight directly behind them and executing the strike the second I can, leaving them absolute minimum time to respond) makes me a better Stalkers than the ones who desparately rely on going entirely unseen. It's impossible to remain fully hidden from a well made team, and the good Stalker I assert adapts that into his tactics rather than relying further on the dead end that is stealth.

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Since AS is practically a melee snipe, shouldn't it follow the rules for snipe attacks and have it's range and line of sight checked twice?

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A melee snipe and a ranged snipe are very different animals to balance, and thus it can't be assumed they should follow identical rules.

I've never seen any real proof that Snipes DO have a second RANGE check, but they might. Even if they do, I don't think Assassin Strike should, because it would just plain break the skill. It's all ready the ONLY challenging attack to execute in the game; making it virtually impossible to execute against anyone not held or immobilized would be a pointless gimp to the only Villain Archetype who keeps up with the damage output of Blasters and Scrappers (Of course, that's sort of why Heroes repeatedly suggest this).

Game balance comes before this sort of concern, and Assassin Strike plain wouldn't be balanced with a second range check, period.

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Oh yeah.

They should also add a Temp Power that lets a Defender do 80% of Blaster damage in a PVP Zone and gives them native Mez Protection.

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These temporary powers all ready exist. They're called inspirations.

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*nod* In that case, every toon in the game has 95% accuracy against all targets, capped damage, unbreakable mez protection, infinite endurance and health, 90% damage resistance, and 95% defense against all targets.

NERF EVERYONE!

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The number of inspirations it takes to get 80% Blaster damage compared to the number it takes to get infinite health makes your comparrison a bit silly.

You could pretty easily walk around with 80% Blaster damage for 10 or 15 minutes or so in PvP using Inspirations, and using the long duration "old style" break frees you can get from bounty turn ins you could have some mez protection in a non-toggle format for about as long.

Which is the only reason I mentioned them: because you could actually feasibly use purchased inspirations to obtain what he was asking for over reasonable durations. Why respond to me sarcastically?

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Oh yeah.

They should also add a Temp Power that lets a Defender do 80% of Blaster damage in a PVP Zone and gives them native Mez Protection.

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These temporary powers all ready exist. They're called inspirations.

Anyone who thinks Hurricane isn't eventually going to get nerfed somehow is living in a fantasy world. Even if they don't want to nerf it NOW they will eventually cave in and weaken it, particularly given only one side has it.