Magnus_Star

Pending the possibility of future earnable power respecifications, I've tweaked the current build and managed to up the damage resistances while remaining consistent with defense and damage output of main attack powers.

Changes consisted of removing slots from the following powers:

- Temp. Invulnerability (-2)
- Fly (-1)
- Laser Beam Eyes (-1)

And placing those extra four slots into:

- Unyielding (+2)
- Resist Elements (+2)

The build is now as follows:

Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Ranged : Invulnerability
Secondary Powers - Support : Super Strength

01 : Jab dam(01) dam(3) dam(3)
01 : Resist Physical Damage damres(01)
02 : Temp Invulnerability damres(02)
04 : Punch dam(04) dam(5) dam(5) dam(7) dam(7) dam(19)
06 : Swift runspd(06)
08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(9) damres(9) damres(11) damres(15) damres(17)
10 : Air Superiority dam(10) dam(11) dam(19) dam(31) dam(39) dam(43)
12 : Haymaker dam(12) dam(13) dam(13) dam(21) dam(39) dam(43)
14 : Resist Energies damres(14) damres(15) damres(21) damres(34)
16 : Resist Elements damres(16) damres(17) damres(23) damres(36)
18 : Hurdle jmp(18)
20 : Invincibility thtbuf(20) thtbuf(29) thtbuf(31) thtbuf(37)
22 : Knockout Blow dam(22) dam(23) dam(25) dam(34) dam(39) dam(43)
24 : Stamina endrec(24) endrec(25) endrec(27) endrec(34) endrec(40) endrec(45)
26 : Fly fltspd(26) fltspd(27) fltspd(36)
28 : Rage recred(28) thtbuf(29)
30 : Tough Hide defbuf(30) defbuf(31) defbuf(37) defbuf(37)
32 : Hasten recred(32) recred(33) recred(33) recred(33) recred(40) recred(45)
35 : Dull Pain recred(35) recred(36) recred(42) hel(50)
38 : Foot Stomp dam(38) dam(40) dam(42) dam(48) dam(48) dam(50)
41 : Conserve Power recred(41) recred(42) recred(46) recred(46) recred(46) recred(48)
44 : Laser Beam Eyes dam(44) dam(45) dam(50)
47 : Taunt tntdur(47)
49 : Combat Jumping defbuf(49)

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01 : Brawl acc(01)
01 : Sprint runspd(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)

Resistances (90% Cap)
Smash/Lethal: 101.3%
Elements: 83.6%
Energies: 84.0%
Toxic: 46.4%

I lose a little speed with Fly, and I lose about 25% damage with Laser Beam Eyes, but in the end I have better overall protection from typed damage (namely Elements and Energies) making it more difficult for Elements/Energies based opponents to hurt me.

Any comments, feel free to leave them here or send a private message.

Once again, thanks for reading.

Magnus Star.

Posted my build again (for the third time in six months), here's the link:

Magnus Star's Inv/SS build - For your reference

Because some of you have demanded it (thanks for those private messages, those who sent them), here's my build once again posted, but this time with a level by level guide from 1 through to 50.

Yes, it's unorthodox, not all my resistances are capped (apart from Smash/Lethal), but this has worked very well for me in PvE and PvP. Elements or Energy damage weren't huge concerns of mine, so the resistances for those two damage types are lower than what most Tankers would have, but in my opinion, ample.

This was the build I went with after the free respec went live a few months ago, designing it with the intention of exemplaring down going back and doing early TFs, missions and lighter weight PvP fights.

Enjoy!

Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Ranged : Invulnerability
Secondary Powers - Support : Super Strength

01 : Jab dam(01) dam(7) dam(48)
01 : Temp Invulnerability damres(01) damres(3) damres(3)
02 : Punch dam(02) dam(5) dam(5) dam(11) dam(15) dam(15)
04 : Resist Physical Damage damres(04)
06 : Hasten recred(06) recred(9) recred(23) recred(25) recred(31) recred(7)
08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(9) damres(11) damres(19)
10 : Swift runspd(10)
12 : Haymaker dam(12) dam(13) dam(13) dam(19) dam(21) dam(36)
14 : Hurdle jmp(14)
16 : Resist Energies damres(16) damres(17) damres(17) damres(31)
18 : Air Superiority dam(18) dam(29) dam(29) dam(31) dam(36) dam(36)
20 : Resist Elements damres(20) damres(21)
22 : Fly fltspd(22) fltspd(23) fltspd(50) fltspd(37)
24 : Invincibility thtbuf(24) thtbuf(25) thtbuf(27) thtbuf(33)
26 : Stamina endrec(26) endrec(27) endrec(33) endrec(33) endrec(34) endrec(37)
28 : Knockout Blow dam(28) dam(34) dam(39) dam(39) dam(40) dam(42)
30 : Rage recred(30) recred(40)
32 : Tough Hide defbuf(32) defbuf(34) defbuf(37) defbuf(39)
35 : Dull Pain recred(35) recred(48) recred(48) hel(50)
38 : Foot Stomp dam(38) dam(40) dam(42) dam(43) dam(45) dam(46)
41 : Conserve Power recred(41) recred(42) recred(43) recred(43) recred(46) recred(46)
44 : Laser Beam Eyes dam(44) dam(45) dam(45) dam(50)
47 : Taunt tntdur(47)
49 : Combat Jumping jmp(49)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl acc(01)
01 : Sprint runspd(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)

Total Resistances:
Smash/Lethal = 106.8%
Energy = 75.2%
Elements = 66.4%
Toxic = 37.6%

Thanks for reading.

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Ok devs, I have had almost enough.......

.....first, you change a power that you didn't even have the consideration to tell us you were thinking about changing.

Next, you give us a version on test that even YOU thought was junk and too extreme in the fix.

Then, you let this BROKEN version go LIVE after telling us to our faces that the penalty was too harsh AND didn't then didn't hotfix it so we could use the power.

Not only did you not fix the power, you let it sit on live for two weeks WITHOUT ANY TALK ABOUT A FIX AND NO RESPONSE TO OUR INQUIRIES. All we got was stonewall silence.

You then present a version of Rage to us with penalties AS HARSH as a total endurance crash. Not one penalty now, but 3 penalties that really add up. And again, one penalty which NO STATEGY OR TEAMMATES CAN REALLY HELP YOU GET AROUND.


An endurance drop can be helped with Conserve Power, Unstoppable, Inspirations, or any endurance buff from another player.

Defense penalties can be helped with other defensive powers, inspirations, or defensive buffs from other players.

But a 10-15 second window of no attacking cannot be helped by anything. Not other players. Not inspirations. Nothing.

Please tell us, is this the point? Are we to be penalized with a slow attack set with low damage and no AoEs until our last power with an ability that leaves us no options and no strategy to help, even in teams, for 15 seconds?

Sorry if I seem a bit bitter, but two weeks with a broken power AND no repsonse from the powers on high does that to me. I feel as if the devs deliberately left us with a broken power for two weeks and failed to acknowledge our pleas for information or input so that they could cook up any fix they wanted and expect us to gladly accept it because it's better than what's on live.

Well, I don't accept it. I still think it's too harsh. With endurance problems, and endurance drop is bad enough. A defense buff just stacks on top of that. But a window in which we can't do anything also?!?

*sigh*

I just expected better.....

....I guess my only hope now is that the devs realize their mistake.....

....after the lack of response to our plight for the last two weeks, that hope is very small right now.

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I agree, the devs have really botched this one.

At least with Rage's former disorient, we could counter it with Unyielding/Unstoppable, but now we're facing 10-15 seconds of real helplessness.

Sorry devs, try again.

I'll have to test it for myself, but we can't do anything at all for 15 seconds when Rage wares off now? And this is different from the original Rage, how?

My proposal(s):

1) Pre Issue 3 Rage - Leave Rage as it was, no endurance drain, just the disorient at the end; or
2) Current Rage - Enforce the -DEF and Endurance drain, but limit the endurance drain to -50%; or
3) Pre Issue 3 Rage- Stop Rage overlaps, i.e., let Rage fully cycle before the buffs kick in again.

Please devs, Rage is a power I use a lot, and I would still very much like to keep on using it as often and as effectively as I do now. Rage is something that's going to keep us in competition with other Tankers once Arena PvP play kicks in.

Don't murder this power.

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I have unfortunetly trudged through all the posts on the change to Rage and how it is on test. I haven't seen anyone post from extended testing experience.

Part 1: With a single rage running, when it drops a -def, -end penalty is suffered. The end loss is total, virtually guaranteeing toggle drop.

Part 2: With two rages running, (ie stacked), when one drops a -def penalty is suffered. NO -end. I have tested this many many many times. It is no fluke. No -end if there is still an active rage running.

I believe this is intended. There is no way to avoid total end loss, just a way to prolong the time until the drop. And at each individual rage crash there is a -def penalty that lasts about 10sec.

I agree that if there were only part 1 at every rage crash then the power would be useless. But as it stands now on test it is better than the disorientate IMO.

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I've mentioned it earlier in this thread, but I very much doubt the non-Endurance drain on the Rage stack is intentional. If they've managed to get around to "fixing" the effect stack on Moment of Glory, then they'll eventually do the same for this new Rage.

Even more of a reason why Rage should be left as it is.

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I just tried stacking rage's on test. If my rages overlapped, my end did NOT drop at ALL! I had 6 toggles running. I was not attacking at the time. Maybe this change is for the better

Obviously, if I didn't stack them, my end would drop. This (to me) makes it more manageable than the current stun effect.

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I noticed this as well, but I think this was unintentional. The devs will "fix" this just as they did with the Moment of Glory stack.

Rage is doomed unless they leave it alone.

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But I agree that it should have a penalty that can't be "circumvated" by other powers in the tree.

I'd suggest a penalty to END regen (with maybe a -10 drop at the end like Hasten) to symbolize being "tired" out. Maybe even a small movement penalty too.

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Just to play Devil's Advocate here, since I don't get why everybody is on this big bandwagon to gimp Tanker endurance even more, should we then put in disadvantages into all powers that enhance the hero.

Let's have Targetting Drone suck endurance like a sieve, Build Up, after it drops, can lower all your attack damage by 50 percent for ten seconds, have Practiced Brawler make you easier to stun after it drops, or make Integration and Instant Heals clicky powers, instead of toggles.

I hope you see what I'm getting at. Rage has a disadvantage and I think it should be left alone or just give the Super Strength set Build Up and be done with it ... these out of the blue changes the devs are looking at it is wearing me down.. Now granted, I don't see the data that the devs do but I never had anybody come up to me and tell me Rage was overpowered. Heck, if I ever was to see a Invuln tanker running around without Unyielding, I would seriously wonder what he/she was smoking and then I would politely inquire as to why he passed over one of the staple powers. I team with a Invuln/Energy tanker on a semi regular basis. Rage is the only thing that allows me to keep up with him period. His damage output is simply just greater than mine, with his multiple hit ability, per attack.

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Agreed completely and five stars for you.

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Although many of us have come up with alternatives to this thing we have on test, I will re-iterate some of them here:
<ul type="square"> [*]Leave Rage as-is: This is prefered anyway. So many people did not use it at times or even at all anyway that this in itself proves the penalty was not too "soft".[*]Less then complete end-loss: A lesser but significant end penalty would still require you to have end buffs in team or use CP (41+ only though) or lose toggles anyway, since you would be fighting and losing end via attacks and toggle maintenence.[*]Tweak SS and give us Build-Up: Every single other Tanker melee set has Build-Up anyway, simply adjust the set and give us Build-Up. Having only 1 of 7 sets different never seemed right anyway.[/list]
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I would have been happier with the new Rage if the endurance drain was not 100%, but rather something close to a half endurance drain or something. Minus 100% of your endurance is too severe, as it will deactivate your toggles anyway.

Iron Vixen's analysis and suggestions are spot on, and for the most part, I agree and would fully support either of the first three points Iron Vixen has put forward.

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I would prefer it left alone.. I believe the risk is worth the current reward. I am very worried what balance Rage will half to suffer in exchange for no stun. Personally my inv/ss tank has stomached enough changes already. I sense another play style change coming &amp; I am worried...

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Indeed, and if Rage was to be changed, I'm afraid I would have to ask the devs for another free respec.

By the way, Nozybida, it's good to see you back with the old Tanker avatar.

It's interesting to point out that Super Strength is the only Tanker Secondary that does not have Build Up. Rage is our Build Up, and even with all of its drawbacks, we still like it.

One more time, let's keep Rage as it is.

Okay, I've thought this through, and I've got here what might be an acceptable solution to the Rage "woes".

Increase the disorient mag of Rage as you level up, start it off relatively low, build it up to where it is now on the scale as you get closer to level 40+.

As I understand it, Rage currently has a 10 Stun magnitude? So when you first get it at level 28, start it off at level three mag (for example), level seven mag at level 35, and finish it on the 10 mag at level 40.

Keep the power as it is, but start the stun off low, increasing it as you go along.

This keeps the mid-level SS Tankers happy, but basically keeps things the same for +40 Tankers.

But whether others think this is a good idea or not, "the power ain't broke, it don't need fixin'".

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In my tests I did Volante, this end drop to 0 is far worse then the stun we have on live. With the stun you could stay un-stunned with patience or buffs...

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Excatly!

And this is why I thought the new inspirations were made in the first place, so we could effectively "break free" from those 15 seconds of stun. Even someone who isn't using Unyieling (or their primary equivalent) could pop a 'Break Free' after Rage wares off so they could fight normally again.

Like I've mentioned before, running the current Rage is a risk in itself; I know that there's a chance I'll be stunned after it wares off, I know the risks, but I use it anyway. I know exactly what I'm getting.

I've been defeated maybe once or twice while using the Unyielding/Rage combination, but that was my own fault. However, it's interesting to point out that on both occasions, I was defeated after being held (stunned by tazers), and being drained of all my endurance by Malta Sappers (left defenseless, unable to recover any endurance). But like I said, this has only happened a couple of times, I'm more careful against Malta Sappers now, I know now to take them out as quick as I can (preferably the first target I fight).

I can guaruntee you, with the "new" Rage, you're going to see a lot more of these sort of defeats.

A car can't run with a dead battery.

**Edit Note: If they change Rage, that's another free respec I'm going to need.**

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Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasn’t getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts &amp; ideas!

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Considering Rage isn't available until level 28, the point is kind of moot.

Given that a Tanker has taken their appropriate stun-resisting power at their respective level (Unyielding, level 8 for Invulnerability), the resists to Rage's stun should be a lot better now. But even at level 50, I'm not fully insured against Rage's stun, just one additional stun, mez or hold, and I will get disorientated. But that's the risk I take, I'm fine with that.

Using Rage as it is now is a risk for anybody, we all knew that when we took the power. I'm just wondering why people are complaining about an after effect that they KNEW they were going to get when they took the power?

It's like going to a restaurant and ordering a dish fully aware that it has something on it you don't like, but you order it anyway and then you complain to the chef about including that part about it you didn't like. So why order it in the first place?

Issue 4: Colesseum

Or, affectionately known as, "Spartacus vs. Showusur Gletus Maximus".

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how plausible would a hefty speed penalty be?

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Super Speed gets around slows. So much like Teleport currently makes the "limitation" of unyielding stance a non-limitation, all this idea does is make SUPER SPEED the new travel power favored by inv tankers. And many of them like Hasten already as is.

Doesn't seem like this idea deals with the issue at all.

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There's already an immobilise component in place with Unyielding Stance, so i.e. you can't use any travel powers with it. Would it be that difficult to keep that restriction on travel powers but still allow some mobility?

The first thing that comes to mind is the walking/running speed a player has when they're walking through an Earth Thorn Caster's quicksand (or whatever power that is), that prevents sprint/jump and any other travel power. I probably wouldn't have it that slow, but something around that speed and bit faster in my mind would be acceptable.

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MagnusStar, that's a pretty common suggestion put forward, just letting us creep forward a little bit when US is on would be enough to keep plenty of us satisifed (no using travel powers to speed it up). There'd still be a role for Unstoppable (It increases end recovery, has a higher base resist, and would let you be MUCH faster than a slow as molasses US tanker)

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Oh good, I knew I wasn't being too demanding then.

Yeah, basically keep everything the same with Unyielding Stance except for the self-immobilise, give a penalty to movement speed and make sure no travel powers (or travel buffs) can be used with it.

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6. I do know that Unyielding Stance and its immobility is an issue. I'm going to be thinking about that a lot in the coming week.

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Unyielding (adj.) - Not giving way to pressure or persuasion; obdurate.

Personally, that doesn't give me much on immobility there, but consider this; where do you draw the line? How do you tweak Unyielding Stance enough so that it's not like Unstoppable?

I've avoided the Unstoppable flavour myself, I much prefer Unyielding Stance because of its own status protection and also because it doesn't leave you vulnerable at the end like Unstoppable does. And yep, it's a toggle power, very attractive in my mind. Also, I don't want to jump on the bandwagon and make myself a perma-Unstoppable Tanker, I would like to make my Tanker as unique and effective as possible.

My suggestion? Rather than causing your Tanker to become immobile with Unyielding Stance, how plausible would a hefty speed penalty be? Say a 50-75% reduction to speed when Unyielding Stance is turned on? That way you don't lose your mobility, but there is still some sort of handicap. It's very comic-booky.

Issue 3: 'A Council of War' sounds good and all, and the book chapter theory sounds very interesting, but I'm biding my time for Issue 4: 'See Spot Run', I've heard it's going to be a ripper!

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2. As a Tanker lands more and more blows, he'll start doing more and more damage. The longer the fight, the more powerful the Tanker becomes. I can't say that the Tanker will do as much damage as a Scrapper - but it'll certainly be more than he does now. This ability really gets to the core of a comic book Tanker. He's extremely powerful - but at the start of a fight, he holds himself back some. As the battle progresses, he lets loose....I prefer this system to a power because this way it's inherent. It's simply the nature of the Archetype. And it also sets the Tanker apart from the Scrapper's criticals.

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Oh my Lord! Thank you Statesman! I feel like you've listened to me personally on this one!

Last week I sent Statesman a private message on a similar issue, more to the point, it was a suggestion for a new power. Basically, it was an activate power which would enable your Tanker to deal increasing damage as he/she himself took it.

For example:

+Damage taken = +Damage Output

But hey, I'm not taking the credit for this, I'm sure this is something we Tankers have wanted for a long time now.

But after reading what you've just written here Statesman, much better, more true to the comic Tankers. Take Superman for example, holds himself back at first, but as the fight goes on (realising he's facing a tough opponent) or as it gets more difficult, he ups the ante dealing more damage as he goes. A good reference would be the Superman-Doomsday fight or the Superman-Hulk fight in the Marvel/DC crossover.

So would the new "forumla", look something like this:

Successful target hit = Base Damage*xDamage modifier ?

Like

= Base Damage 80*1.05 (5 per cent damage increase)

= 84

Damage Taken

= 84*1.05

= 88.2

??

Someone with a maths brain help me out, I'm an English teacher.

Major props to you Statesman and all the devs, you guys are one of the reasons I keep on playing this game. You guys rock!