Mad_Cow_Milk

Originally Posted by Rajani Isa

So after clicking on "Billing Summary" on the right (circled in Yellow) you don't have this box in the center of the screen?

Originally Posted by Ad Astra

By going to the NCSoft Account page. Are you currently using time cards to pay to play? You would have to put in a CC # instead.

Originally Posted by Lightfoot

It seems there is only one answer you will accept for "proper transportation for a normal human," and that is: vehicles.

The Devs have gone on record saying that vehicles will never happen.

a) There are too many technical hurdles that need to be overcome for the development to be cost efficient. The technical hurdles have already been enumerated by us and ignored by you in your infinite knowledge of the game's code, despite the fact that many of these technical hurdles have been spelled out for us by the Developers who must work with the code you seem to know so intimately.

b) in order to make them not look ridiculous, they would need to be restricted to outdoor maps and game world only, not available in indoor instanced missions. This makes them severely restricted in comparison to every other travel power in the game, making them a non-optimal choice. Since only the diehard roleplayer will spend a power choice on a vehicle with the restrictions necessary, the development cost would produce little bang for the buck.

c) You know (and the Devs know) as well as I do that a single motorcycle or car skin is not going to be sufficient. Once it is known that vehicles are in development, we, even if we would not want to give up the power slot for a gimped travel power, would be frothing at the mouth for a "vehicle creator." We don't want "Mad Cow on a generic looking cycle." We want the "Mad Cow Cycle," complete with horns on the handlebars and a Guernsey pattern on the gas tank.



How many examples do you want? Klingons. Predators. Really, any sci-fi race with a tradition of hand to hand combat would probably also use thrown weapons.



Did you totally miss where someone you quoted made mention of differing body sizes? Not just models (male, female, huge), but actual heights. Our heroes can be between four feet and eight feet tall. The same motorcycle model that fits a six foot tall character is not going to fit an eight foot or a four foot tall character.



How is coloring our powers or selecting our weapon skins remotely like having sprint / superspeed put your character on a motorcycle or in a car?



If the pose is persistent (Ninja Run, Hover / Fly), then one of two things needs to happen when we activate a power. The pose needs to go away, to be replaced by the power's animation, and resume when the animation is finished; or every power needs to be animated for that pose. Ninja Run does the first, Hover / Fly does the second.

This means that when you activate a power on a motorcycle, either the motorcycle disappears and you assume the power's normal activation stance, or that every power needs to have a motorcycle animation. The first looks stupid and will break your immersion, the second is a hell of a lot of work.



So, what powers auto-adjust to the size of the model? I can't think of any. This would require the creation of new tech to solve your problem.

A vehicle is an example of tech. If your character wouldn't use any of the devices that we have put forth because it would be too much tech in his natural, then how can you rationalize using a motorcycle.

The game doesn't need vehicles, and I'm glad the Devs aren't wasting time and money trying to put them in.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

The biggest technical problem, as I see it, is that this suggestion introduces not one, but a VARIETY of additional stances to the game. Currently, we have two that are functionally different - ground and air. You have two complete sets of every animation for every power ever made, one for use on the ground, one for use in the air. That's TWO OF EVERYTHING. Adding just one third stance would first require about as much work as redoing HALF of all the animations that currently exist, and in a non-trivial manner, because a bike stance would be significantly different from a standing one. Look at flight animations, and you'll notice most attacks are almost identical to their ground counterparts, but with the legs dangling down. A few are more diverse, like Air Superiority in the air vs Air Superiority on the ground (naturally, right?), but most are almost exact copies. Bike animations WOULD NOT.

And that's just bikes. If you try to invent any other kind of vehicle, like a car or a horse or a pogo stick, you're looking at ANOTHER unique stance, as well. That's enough work for BABs to have fits of rage and murder people who suggest it. He already mentioned mentioned that animation work of that scale scares the living daylight out of him in the EU show and tell. I'll find the exact quote later. It's basically a krappton of work that no-one at Paragon Studios is ever going to commission.

And then you have the other side of the problem - bikes don't strafe, bikes don't jump 10 feet up into the air from a standing start, bikes don't climb fire escapes, bikes don't sit on park benches. Bikes are also typically much bigger than regular human beings, so either they won't be able to fit through doors and roll down hallways, or you'd have a really weird form of constant clipping. What's more, bikes are long but narrow, and our collision "boxes" are actually defined as collision RADIUS, which doesn't work well on objects that aren't oblong. No doubt part of the problem Rularuu the Raveger had with his hit box that kept him out of the game.

This is a not-insignificant technical hurdle that really has very little merit in the actual game, at least as something added in as an afterthought. If this were Battlefield or GTA which was devised with vehicles in mind, then I wouldn't have a problem with it, but here you'll basically need a whole second game on top of this one to do vehicles, and that won't happen.

*edit*
Exact BABs quote, or close enough to it:



from this thread.

Originally Posted by City of Heroes

You aren't 'super' at all; your amazing talents come from intense training and innate abilities. You might have been driven to physical excellence by some all-encompassing desire for perfection or revenge, or perhaps you are not human at all, and possess powers natural to your race. With your natural origin you have to rely on your cunning and skill. This origin will give you access to Throwing Knives. This attack has a very short range and deals minor Lethal damage, as well as inflicting additional Damage over Time.

Originally Posted by Lightfoot

I am trying to poke holes in everything you say. It is the only way to demonstrate to you that your arguments lack a solid foundation

Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint

pay attention to the vehicles in the game and see how stupid they look turning corners and what not. and also, you do not understand how the game engine works or how it is coded. please do not assume that something is easy when it is not.

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project

Just an FYI, the Martin Jetpack is going to be available for commercial sale this year.

http://www.martinjetpack.com/the-martin-jetpack.aspx

Originally Posted by Lightfoot

Let's talk about that, then. James Bond has always used theoretical tech 10-20 years in advance of what is readily available. In the late 60's, James Bond was using a jetpack to get around (From Russia With Love). While the Bourne movies don't use theoretical transportation tech, they certainly use surveillance tech at least 5 years ahead of what is on the market.

Most anime plays fast and loose with theoretical tech, too; the stealth suits in Ghost in the Shell, the androids in Gunslinger Girl, the gadgets of Lupin the 3rd.

If you are using movies and anime as your guide to what is "natural," I still don't understand where your goalposts are. I suspect that you don't know where your goalposts are either, except to move them further out as you are shown examples within your boundaries that you don't like.

Originally Posted by Warkupo

Out of curiosity, why are we accepting Ninja Run as a 'natural' travel set, even though it requires rather obvious levels of absurd physical perfection (To a degree unrealized in reality) but we don't accept Super Jump even though we could explain it in much of the same way?

I'm merely curious at what level of performance we decide something is too 'super' to be 'natural', and why Ninja Run makes this qualification. Only because it was in the 'Natural' booster pack, or is it something else?

Originally Posted by IanTheM1

How would combat work on a motorcycle?

Originally Posted by Lightfoot

What does "regular working reality" matter? In the City of Heroes universe, the technology is common enough that anyone who stops the Atlas Park bank from being robbed is gifted a working jetpack by the City.

In Paragon City, the technology is just that common. Let your hangups go and have fun.

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill

And yet in working regular reality you jog faster than cars without getting tired? You can get shot, burned, drop from the top of a skyscraper, hit with radiation, etc. and barely notice it? Heal from near-death in seconds?

Also, who cares if it's "a tech power?" Does that stop your natural character from using bows (technology) or guns (definitely technology?) Origin is the primary source of your powers. Using a gun does not change you from natural to tech. Punching someone does not make you go from science to natural.

One last bit: We've had jetpacks/rocket packs in one form or another developed since the 50s. You may be able to find footage of someone at the super bowl using one during half time from - oh, think it was the 80s. Not to mention powered "winged" backpacks - basically the ultimate ultralight - people are using now as a form of "extreme skydiving," most often. This isn't much of a stretch. Or all that "super tech." Had we had continual development instead of fits and starts? Not a stretch at all.

Originally Posted by Slope

Vehicles would be awesome, but until they feel like doing a ton of work for 1 or 2 new travel powers, it won't happen.

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill

If "Vehicles" are OK for your natural (as in "all human," not "game origin definition" natrual) character, why isn't buying and strapping on a jetpack? (Or the previously mentioned piston shoes or jet boot costume pieces.) It would be just as much a "vehicle," in this instance, as a car or motorcycle.

Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down

I have several "natural" characters that are Alien to this planet so their species natural abilities cover their travel powers. A few of the others cross into the sci/tech areas for theirs. Ninja run covers one or two of them.

Cars/Motorcycles, etc fall into the tech side. Not high tech, but still tech.


I'll echo McBoo in wishing there was a different standing pose for Ninja Run. I'll turn it off if I'm stopping anywhere for more then a moment because it just doesn't look right to me. But that's my quibble.