Lox_Def

Er, while it's not precisely "smoth-ville" I don't have a problem soloing with my SS/EA brute at all. Now granted I'm only doing 1 up on the reputation scale (I can't recall what that is). But I can solo anymission as a SS/EA at that level with out any problem at all, actually I don't think I've ever died.

Where *I* have problems is grouping. Holy hell I get my butt handed to me day and night when I add more than 1 extra person.

But for soloability, SS/EA works like a champ, no problemo's at all.

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I'd love to get Guildwars but my wife is comes from a relgious background and frankly its annoying that every fantasy games degenerates into involving demons and undead which she is very much against.

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So...no one's told her about the Vahzilok, Circle of Thorns and Banished Pantheon?

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I thought the *exact* same thing. Perhaps he hasn't hit his mid-20's yet? In fact I think the CoT things are actually *called* "Demons". And the Banished Pantheon aren't actors in suits, man... they're dead things Not to scare your wife off, just letting ya know.

You know I never could figure out why people got in such a nit over demons in games, it's not like you're going in to be their best buds

Back on topic. For me, Guild Wars (just purchased this weekend) is likely to act as a replacement for CoH. I just don't feel like the people at cryptic care about high-end content anymore. Hamidon was fun...the first time I guess. I killed him, I'm ready to move on. Or, did I arrest him? Wow that's a deep thought. Could you imagine hamidon in the Zig? He'd be oozing out of all the doors...gross.

Anyway, with Issue 5, far far away, we'll see how long guild wars can keep my attention. Luckily COH has a nifty "put account on hold" option

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Something I've always wondered...

Why do people feel the need that they *have* to be "Optimal" to have fun? Why does everything have to boil down to the numbers?

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Because ultimately... what else is there for most people who play. We're all limited by time. Many want that time to be as optimal as possible.

Is it *more* fun to finish a task force in 6 hours... or 3? Only you can be the judge of that, but I'll take the three hours anyday.

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CoH examples –

Achievers – Power Levelers
Killers – Griefers/KSers
Explorers – Badges
Socializers – Dance Club


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and

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Cuppajoe, how do you like having people telling you and others what you said despite the fact that the author is clearly typed at the beginning of the exposition

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Actually the first quote was Cuppa's take on Bartles MMORPG archtypes and how they relate to CoH. I believe that is what most people are taking exception too. None have said "There isn't such a thing as Killer Archtypes" merely that CoH doesn't meet the needs of the killer Archtype in the method Cuppa sugested.

I think what most would say is that the killer-type personallity people in CoH are starved for content that meets their needs, instead of they are the source of conflict in the game (as Griefers/KSers).

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Actually, I take exception to the charictorization Killers = griefers / KS'ser.


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I think what Cuppa was trying to say is that Killers in CoH really don't have a place at the moment, pure killers anyway. Most people aren't pure killers, they tend to be some form of hybrid. But if you are a pure killer playing, right now your only avenue is Grief/KS, because you want to take on the players, not the enviroment.

I know that when I was playing on a care bear server in EQ, there were many many times when I would say "MAN, if this were PvP I'd just smoke that guy/girl/guild." It certainly would make contested spawns a lot easier ;-)

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I think a more apt description of a Killer is someone who is either 1. enjoying the combat aspect of the game and relishes the fight or 2. is hanging on for CoV / PvP.

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Number 2 is certainly apt, I would think number one would typify a more "Achiever" type, becoming better at what you do, *but* against the enviroment.

I myself am certainly anxious to see the PvP side of things. Nothing get's the blood pumping like a good fight. The computer enviroments are stimulating, but give way to patterns. Humans give way to patterns also, but they are a much more stimulating fare! ;-)

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think I'm probably an Achiever/Explorer. I can't really seem to figure our which I'm more of.

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I think the problem with classifying any type of person is that reality in general does not neatly divide into chunks. I had not read the paper that Jo had posted before I wrote my discussion, yet; in my opening thoughts I determined that I was...

Achiever - My forth point, I just wanted to make 50th
Killers - I strive for competion in PvP
Explorers - I loved killing the Gods/Dragons in EQ breaking into Plane of time etc...
Socializers - In EQ I was extremely political, you can't be in a top raiding guild and not be.

So I cross all four realms, I believe that the more groups you're in the more hard-core and likely you are to be a MMORPG fanatic of sorts.

I would argue that people in one group will have the least enjoyment from the game and are the most likely to quit: This is evidence by some of my friends who were 100% socializers in EQ, most of them were out within a year. In Dark Age, I was a pure killer same with UO (I was a jerk of a Griefer hehe). I retired after only 1 year of playing. In EQ though, I was all 4, and played for an outrageous ammount of time.

*laughs* What an interesting theory! So, I guess my hypothesis is: The more groups you cover in a game, the more likely you are to enjoy it. I believe this is because MMORPG's are not catered to any one group, they don't do anything very well, rather everything is done to an acceptable level.

Ahh, then this leads to why I might be disatified with CoH...

Achiever - I'd like to see 50th
Killers - I can't kill other players saddly, so this is out
Explorers - Atlas Park looks like Brickstown looks like Pergrine... nothing really new out there. Any mob I can see in a mission I can generally see on the street. ...*there is the new shard though, I will see that when I hit 50, but I wouldn't say it "Drives" me*

Socializers - I find that the maturity level *ON THE WHOLE* is not the same demographic as me. I don't really enjoy socializing in CoH as much as I did in EQ. Everquest, the average age was ~26, I wonder what it is in CoH, perhaps it's the same and I've just been unlucky.

Upon reviewing this, it would seem I'm in a single group. This means that my expected CoH life span will most likely be about 1 year... I could probably write a white paper on this if I wasn't moving and starting a new job in 5 days hehe... much to look into though

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I just recently beat the game Fable after a measly 16 hours of game play, which comes down to $3.15 per hour of game play. <snip...and>Did you really get to level 50 after 16 hours ???

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The game Fable is an adventure game for the X-box. It was amazingly well done, looked beautiful and felt like an MMORPG while being single player. It is a *must* rent if you own an Xbox and enjoy that kind of third person fighting It's amazing, your actions dictate your appearance and social standings. So if you're evil, over time your grow frail, horns, glowing eyes. If you're good you devlop and aura, halo, etc... I say rent because the 16 hours I invested wasn't worth the money spent

I want to start by thanking to two individuals that posted research, both made for interesting reads.

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Could you elaborate on this? I'm not a DAoC veteran ...<snip>Could you only do PvP (barring duels) at level 50?...<snip> Was it a matter of being "the top of the heap"

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Actually about 1 year into DAOC they did implement battle grounds for lower level people, this was a nice place to hone your battle skills.

But, hymm... let me try to sum up DAOC. There were three realms. Each realm had 2 relics. These relics provided you with your power. If I had to convert it to CoH terms: Imagine having a relic meant that you recieved an additional +10% accuracy and +10% damage on all your skills. Now, if you loose your relic, the people who stole it got YOUR +10%. Ideally you would want all 6 relics, this would give you +30% accuracy and +30% damage. The reason you wanted to get 50 was because you would be the most benefit to your kingdom in getting these relics. There were also zones that you could control, imagine if Kings Row could only be controlled by one faction. So if the Villians had control of Kings Row *no* one could enter kings row that wasn't a villian. It was really a very exciting time, especially when you had a LOT of relics, newbies leveled faster and quickly became soldiers on the front line.

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No flame intended but I am truly bewildered at someone who's played EQ saying:

Sorry, I just don't see it. EQ was boring, tedious work. CoH is fun.

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It's odd. I never found it tedious, because Alternate Experience came SO quickly at level 65. I'd make 6-7 dings a session. And it was easier to be social in EQ.

On top of that, my Dings had a VERY tangible result. If I got 10AXP, I did more damage or was a better healer, or could do a neat trick. When you saw that you had 400axp, you *really* felt powerful. It's something that you can't explain though...it's something you have to feel. I worry that when I hit 50, I'm not going to feel powerful, and that's the void that concerns me.

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er, I don't have the quote, but it was something along the lines of "If you don't like the game, then quit"

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My moral dilema is that I *really* would like to like CoH. *reads that twice*. I've even applied for work as a game content designer with them (they didn't want me *sobs*). I think that CoH is one of the best things going right now, but; at the same time I feel that there needs to be more drive out there. Cuppa jo (sp?) said that there are four types of personalities that play CoH, and this is true of any MMORPG, I am what I consider a full-spectrum game player. I play for all the reasons I mentioned in my lead post. Right now, I want to enjoy playing CoH but I'm in a moral ...crisis of digital faith? I continue to play CoH, I *want* to see 50th, my hopes are that the game continues to evolve into something more.

This post is going to probably go long, but I’m going to think out loud about what is the reason for wanting to get to 50 in CoH.

When I played Everquest (about 400days played, that’s a lot) I would often reflect on what it was that kept me going, I would do the same thing for Dark Age and many other MUDs that I would play. Overall four things keep me in a MMORPG.

The first was equipment. There is a competitive side in all humans; it varies in intensity in different people. For a long time on my server I was the “Top Druid” and later one of the “Top Monks”. What drove me was the thrill of being one of the top players. This commitment though, to compete at that level required massive amounts of time invested as well as a lot of political involvement. But, alas, I was in love with becoming more powerful as a player. Saddly, CoH has no equipment to strive for. It could be argued that the super powered enhancements that you get from Hamidon would be “Striveable” worthy, but they just don’t peak my interest.

The second was accomplishment. It was exciting to conquer new things. I loved the Planes of Power expansion in Everquest, and I loved stealing my first relic in Dark Age. Nothing got the blood pumping like a massive raid on a keep or downing a God/Dragon for the first time. I guess it could be argued that the Archvillians and Task Force missions are strivable events, although in general they don’t take much to get through.

The third reason to getting to level 50 was for Player Hunting/Player Killing etc. While the EQ PK system was flawed, it evolved over time making higher levels worth while. Dark Age of Camelot was centered on the combat aspect, the reason TO get 50 was simply to eliminate the other guy. As a Midguard (and you other mids know (ps Albs suck)) it was *always* a challenge to fight for what was yours. There were also the MUDs, that rivaled any MMORPG in their time. While they were text based, some of the most exciting battles I’ve ever been in were through a little telnet connection

The final reason to reach the maximum level was just because it’s fun to get to the end level. When I play a MMORPG, leveling should just be something that happens while I’m doing other things. I don’t think any game has quite nipped that yet though, except for the text based MUDs and games that were designed as single player games, with a multiplayer aspect thrown in.

I just recently beat the game Fable after a measly 16 hours of game play, which comes down to $3.15 per hour of game play. Granted I’m going to play a second time to try the evil path, but really that’s pretty sad. City of Heroes has to me only one reason out of four to get to level 50, and it’s the same reason I got to level 99 in Diablo, “Max Power” in Fable and many other games…just because it’s fun to get to the end. That being said, I’m missing something currently, that’s the fun part. This isn’t City of Heroes issue, it’s solely mine, so please don’t take this as a flame.

When I log into CoH it’s *work*: boring, tedious work. Why does it take so long to level in City of Heroes, I believe the answer is very obvious, it’s because City of Heroes is a business, and businesses exist to make profit. If City of Heroes was like the game Fable, they would no longer be making a lot of money, their money would come in one big surge. You invest a million dollars, then pray you sell a million copies at $35.00 a piece. With MMORPG’s their goal is to make the initial surge of money, then make money over time, as well as micro-surges of cash in the form of expansions once a year or so.

So I guess my philosophical issue is, am I a MMORPG kinda person anymore? I no longer have desires to spend 14 hours of a day camping a zone for an item, I rather prefer to log on for two hours here and there, and then log off. The problem is that MMORPG’s in general reward those that are most likely to cause greater profit. CoH isn’t really interested in players like me; they prefer the people that are enamored by the game.

And with that long stream of consciousness type discussion, I think I’ve come to my answer I don’t expect any made it through all this, really it’s just for my own edification. My conclusion is mine, I hope that this allows others that are confused as to why they play to place their thoughts down, and come to their own conclusions, good, bad or indifferent