Londoner

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No synergy in SS/WP lol.
Even the ones who disagree they are overpowered would admit there is great synergy.
RTTC needs mobs in meele range, Fottstomp is an pbaoe whose knockdown gives WP the time to regenerate.

Which brutes set have better synergy than SS/Wp ?

To say SS/Wp have no synergy is ridiculous


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ATTENTION ATTENTION, synergy spotted between 2 powers..... split them up now.

This has been a public service announcement on behalf of the Synergy Police.

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Does anyone disagree that Rage is the best buff of all brute primaries ?

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Yep, id rather have build up any day, no crash.

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Does anyone disagree that KoB is one of the best ST atackks with great secondary effects of all brute prmiaries ?

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Yea its one of them, its no better than a couple of others though.

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I was just using my examples to show you can target specific combinations, I wasnt proposing they were actually implemented.

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What you actually did is demonstrate very effectively why it is difficult to just target specific combinations.

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Strength of Will could ignore buffs or debuffs to damage WITH THE EXCEPTION OF RAGE.


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Again, you are rewriting the whole game engine in order to address a minor (and completely imaginary) problem. As far as the game engine is concered a damage buff is a damage buff, it doesn't keep track of where they come from.

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I never said it was easy, I never said it should be done. I said it was POSSIBLE.

Im quite open to debate about how much resources should be put into game balancing (as it happens, a small amount in my opinion), and the most efficient way of doing so (as it happens, generally to look at sets individually)

I AM SIMPLY SAYING IT IS POSSIBLE TO MAKE CHANGES THAT SPECIFICALLY AFFECT (POSITIVELY OR NEGATIVELY) TO SPECIFIC COMBINATIONS MORE THAN OTHERS.

Is anyone seriously opposing this statement? You are actually prepared to argue that it is BLANKET IMPOSSIBLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TO MAKE ANY CHANGES WHATSOEVER THAT AFFECT A SET EQUALLY IRRESPECTIVE OF ITS COMBINATION.

INstead of me defending, what is actually a laughably easy proposition (which I have done), why dont people actually try and defend the opposing ludicrious position.

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No one needs to defend anything, you started the thread, people just need to say why they dont agree with you.

Just tell me why it bothers you so much that some combo's perform well. How is that in any way detrimental to your game?

It's your farming rant all over again with another topic aint it, these things dont kill games, stopping people doing what they want kills games.

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And, as I have said, that point is irrelevant. If FoTM build goes from 10% overperformance and, when people swap to the next FoTM, its only 9%, you have acheived something.

Unless you are proposing that the next FoTM combo is equal to or surpasses the first FoTM, which is unlikely as it is by definition "second choice".

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Thats right you will have achieved something, you will have [censored] off another chunk of players for no reason at a time when this game can do without [censored] players off.

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or is deleted then the next highest character will open up and be playable if there is no more characters the player may create a new character

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Before that page loads, you need to add the "vote on my power choice" screen, which sends an e mail to all players, to make sure your choices are ok with them.

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Still possible to get bias towards some sets.

Wouldn't it be easier if ATs and set choices were assigned by the server to ensure that under-represented sets get promoted? Failing to level an assigned character to 50 gets a temporary account ban?

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Once again JD i have to defer to your view of the bigger picture, you are absolutely right!

In fact make it a perma ban, if they cant hear, they will have to feel! Cant have these swines making the wrong char spoiling the game for the majority.

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or is deleted then the next highest character will open up and be playable if there is no more characters the player may create a new character

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Before that page loads, you need to add the "vote on my power choice" screen, which sends an e mail to all players, to make sure your choices are ok with them.

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What i like most with willpower is that it's very non intrusive on your characters appearance.

[/ QUOTE ]What I hate most about Willpower is the horrible pale yellow heartbeat glow, and periodic burst of yellow ripples.

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Still better than the bright rainbow outline of invuln, and the fully obstruction of stone, fire and ice
Why even bother with a cossie when using those powersets ><

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Inv Tanks looks like disco kings and queens.

If you want to something to nerfed too badly i say try to convince devs to nerf Ice shields visual fx's. They ruin my cossie.

*I don't feel a need to say something about OP because nerfing seems to be new trend on boards. We dismissed "merge the servers" ones and have this for new year i think *

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Nerfing is the new black.

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Merging is sooooo last season dahlinks.

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Im predicting choosing your team mates powers as the next big thing.....

Issue 16 Power Picker

Sick of your PuG mates powers, seen one too many of those damn WP's .....ZAP , hit the new "change my team mates powers to suit me better" button!

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But seriously, -something- needs to be done when the odds of a Brute -not- being SS/WP in a pick-up group are relatively small.


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Why's that then? What on earth has it got to do with you what power sets people choose to use?

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And we can't just keep buffing everyone else forever, or [insert exaggerated example about oneshotting Hamidon here].

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Thats right we cant keep on buff buff buffing, we can add another difficulty level, as has been suggested 30 times in this thread.

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I love it how people always claim the opposing view is the minority in these debates, with magical invisible statistics on this pulled from their backsides.

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Bummer being in the minority aint it.

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Of course nobody agrees, cause noone likes their chars get weaker.

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Well, I disagree that we need more nerfs, we've had more than enough already and some of my toons have been on the receiving end of them. One of them got hit harder than most by ED and IO's haven't made up the shortfall. No more of my toons would be affected by the changes you proposed because I don't use any of those power sets in any of them. I still don't like the idea though.

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Hang on you quoted me, it wasnt me!

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What i like most with willpower is that it's very non intrusive on your characters appearance.

[/ QUOTE ]What I hate most about Willpower is the horrible pale yellow heartbeat glow, and periodic burst of yellow ripples.

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Still better than the bright rainbow outline of invuln, and the fully obstruction of stone, fire and ice
Why even bother with a cossie when using those powersets ><

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Inv Tanks looks like disco kings and queens.

If you want to something to nerfed too badly i say try to convince devs to nerf Ice shields visual fx's. They ruin my cossie.

*I don't feel a need to say something about OP because nerfing seems to be new trend on boards. We dismissed "merge the servers" ones and have this for new year i think *

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Nerfing is the new black.

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No i think people read what you said, it was just no one except M agreed with you.

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Of course nobody agrees, cause noone likes their chars get weaker.
Even the ones that DO feel the sets are overpowered wont admit it in a forum.
Every person i know in game, in SG, in friends list agrees that SS/WP is the best brute combo by far....

Would the admit its overpowered if that could lead to a nerf ?
NEVER EVER....

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Well all that tells me is you are in a minority and need to stop worrying about things that have nothing to do with you.

No one's forcing you to play these sets that you see as over powered, and please dont come out with that chestnut about needing to play a certain powerset to be needed or useful, because anyone that succumbs to peer group pressure in a game, well.....


No ones forced into anything, if a lot of people play a certain combo its because they want to or like them because they are good, if you dont want to follow the crowd, dont. Make a brute with no shields and show everyone what a trend setter you are.

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I think many people just read "NERF" and stop there.

This thread was allways about nerfing only in conjuction with buffing, only to overperforming sets, and only shaving off the excess power (back to AVERAGE, not underperforming sets).

And yet it seems some people think I was screaming for collosal nerfs to everything in order to upset people. Read the original post.

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No i think people read what you said, it was just no one except M agreed with you.

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Or maybe he dont drive himself mad worrying about things that dont effect him, and just plays the game.

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Why bother to post in this thread at all , if he dont cares ?
Is it only allowed to say sets underperform compared to others, not that some sets are overperforming ?

Player cried for buffs for certain sets since beta, and those sets got the buffs, meaning they got balanced compared to the performance of most of the other sets.
Shall now all sets get buffed to the performance of some specific sets or better balance those specific sets compared to the masses of sets ?

Shall it really be buff, buff,buff all other sets till its pointless to team since everyone can beat AVS and SF and maps for 8 players solo ?

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No i think your right, buff buff buff is bad.

Thats why i agree with the idea of adding another difficulty level, that way no one gets a [censored] up char and those that want it harder can have it.

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I give up. I can't be bothered to argue with smug, self-certain fanatics.

Anyone arguing against the OP is as likely to convert them as they are likely to convert the Pope to Judaism. For the same reason, too. Smug certainty is unassailable when it comes from having seen "the truth", and just leads to circular, irritating arguments.

Edit: 1st after the (Defiant RPS Open Champion)

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Ignorance is as bad as smug, self-certain fanatics....

Btw you didnt argue at any time at all...you just say all i do is make false statements....proof that i am wrong pls and where i am wrong.

WHy dont you just open your Mids Hero designer and check the numbers for SS attacks with double stacked rage compared to the other primaries attacks, and come here again and post that i am wrong and where i am wrong,when i say SS outperforms all other sets ?

Maybe because you prefer to be rude and ignorant before risking to see that i am maybe right ?

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Or maybe he dont drive himself mad worrying about things that dont effect him, and just plays the game.

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Londoner, you seem to be implying that there is some sadistic pleasure people get from nerfing a toon that is overpowered. I think the usual feeling is regret.

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I dont know what you get out of it mate, it's not me calling for more un needed nerfs.

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Im not either, Im calling for needed nerfs. And, once again, in conjunction with needed buffs.

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I seem to remember your last cause to champion because it was going to totally flatten the game was farming.

What happened to that?

I can see a pattern forming here, maybe we should just get on and let people play how they like, how someone having a well performing char (except in pvp) is effecting you is beyond me, they have been here from day dot, they aint killed the game, leave things alone.

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Well, we just have to disagree then. I see effects of changes on the game as a whole, you say if it doesnt individually bother you,or I,or one individual, let it be. Cant see we are going to resolve this one.

However, would you concede that every MMORPG strives to balance sets / ATs? They may allocate different levels of resources to this process of course. YOu may wish to construct an argument that no (or less) resources should be spent (going against the veiw of every MMORPG, but if thats your corner you should fight it), or you may wish to say state how you would like this process to occur (in my veiw, both nerfs and buffs).

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Me, id like to see 90% of resources spent on new content and the rest fixing bugs.

I just dont think that what you are putting forward as a reason for a major power revamp is worth the expense this late in a games life. I dont think that many people care about some chars doing better than others.

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Firstly, a "nerf"isnt a mahor revamp, Simplt shaving off 10% of recharge or damage from something is extremely simple in terms of resources.

Secondly, what you and I completely agreeon is resources should be spent on new content. WIth you entroiely there. If you dont, game dies.

However, am of the opinion (shared I think by every other MMORPG) that investing small amounts of resources in balancing garners greater amounts of resources in the long term. i.e. by balancing you maintain or increase player base, and hence increase available resources.

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I dont think any more "balancing" will maintain or increase anything, in fact i think it will do the opposite.

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Hi mate, see things haven't changed around here

NERF THEM ALL, LET THE HAMPSTERS AND KITTENS SORT THEM OUT!!!

Then the Smurfs can make some burgers

Hahahaha!!!

WP/SS Tank's are fun, SS/WP Brutes are fun.....Brutes are fun, Doms are fun, Corr's are fun, in fact I find all AT's powersets combos fun so nerf them all. That'd give me more time to see my family......

So leave them all alone, I like the game the way it is.

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Hello mate long time no see

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In my opinion and in the opinion of about 30 players i know ingame SS/WP is the best combo for brutes.

Of course they dont want it nerfed, but they admit its OP.

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And that mate, is the sensible way to look at it. Listen to your 30 mates, you are in the minority.

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Actually I may have read that different to you, Londoner. I read it as his 30 acquaintances know that it is overpowered and so should be nerfed/lowered in power, but none of them want that to happen as they enjoy being overpowered.

If something is overpowered then really it should be considered for a reduction in strength - the word overpowered pretty much states that.

The simple fact is that the combination only appears overpowered to a minority - and then partly because they are only considering certain aspects/scenarios in which the combination excels. To everyone else it's probably seen as highpowered with some weaknesses comparative to other combinations - which many combinations are without being overpowered.

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I read that as his 30 whatevers were quite happy with things the way they are, leave it alone.

One persons overpowered is another persons well made char is another persons average char is another persons brutes are [censored] im making a corruptor.

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In my opinion and in the opinion of about 30 players i know ingame SS/WP is the best combo for brutes.

Of course they dont want it nerfed, but they admit its OP.

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And that mate, is the sensible way to look at it. Listen to your 30 mates, you are in the minority.

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Me, id like to see 90% of resources spent on new content and the rest fixing bugs.

I just dont think that what you are putting forward as a reason for a major power revamp is worth the expense this late in a games life.

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Make Rage unstackable, add -dmg or - rech on RTTC would not be a major power revamp, and could be done very easy.

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I wasnt talking to you

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Londoner, you seem to be implying that there is some sadistic pleasure people get from nerfing a toon that is overpowered. I think the usual feeling is regret.

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I dont know what you get out of it mate, it's not me calling for more un needed nerfs.

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Im not either, Im calling for needed nerfs. And, once again, in conjunction with needed buffs.

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I seem to remember your last cause to champion because it was going to totally flatten the game was farming.

What happened to that?

I can see a pattern forming here, maybe we should just get on and let people play how they like, how someone having a well performing char (except in pvp) is effecting you is beyond me, they have been here from day dot, they aint killed the game, leave things alone.

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Well, we just have to disagree then. I see effects of changes on the game as a whole, you say if it doesnt individually bother you,or I,or one individual, let it be. Cant see we are going to resolve this one.

However, would you concede that every MMORPG strives to balance sets / ATs? They may allocate different levels of resources to this process of course. YOu may wish to construct an argument that no (or less) resources should be spent (going against the veiw of every MMORPG, but if thats your corner you should fight it), or you may wish to say state how you would like this process to occur (in my veiw, both nerfs and buffs).

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Me, id like to see 90% of resources spent on new content and the rest fixing bugs.

I just dont think that what you are putting forward as a reason for a major power revamp is worth the expense this late in a games life. I dont think that many people care about some chars doing better than others.

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Of course thats the same as just getting on with playing the bloody game without having your chars constantly messed about with aint it.

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Just because something was wrong and overpowered from the start, or became overpowered through changes to the game, doesnt justify for not adjusting it.

Every mmopg is in a constant change of nerfing, buffing, improving different classes, sets.

If you want no changes to powers you need to play single player games.

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In general i'd say increase the difficulty of the game as an option for those that find it too easy instead of nerfing.

In the case of the 2 powers you want nerfing im saying leave them alone because neither of them are an "i win" button.

Just my opinion of course.

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Londoner, you seem to be implying that there is some sadistic pleasure people get from nerfing a toon that is overpowered. I think the usual feeling is regret.

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I dont know what you get out of it mate, it's not me calling for more un needed nerfs.

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Im not either, Im calling for needed nerfs. And, once again, in conjunction with needed buffs.

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I seem to remember your last cause to champion because it was going to totally flatten the game was farming.

What happened to that?

I can see a pattern forming here, maybe we should just get on and let people play how they like, how someone having a well performing char (except in pvp) is effecting you is beyond me, they have been here from day dot, they aint killed the game, leave things alone.

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Let ppl exploit, use bots, hack the game if they like it and only have fun playing the game if there chars are op :-)

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Of course thats the same as just getting on with playing the bloody game without having your chars constantly messed about with aint it.

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Londoner, you seem to be implying that there is some sadistic pleasure people get from nerfing a toon that is overpowered. I think the usual feeling is regret.

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I dont know what you get out of it mate, it's not me calling for more un needed nerfs.

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Good point, I stand corrected. People will gravitate towards sets they think are powerful.

Not "people" meaning you specifically. Or me, come to that. But the population as a whole will tend to grvitate towards perceived powerful sets (other factors come into play too of course)/

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Actually, I won't either. It's those damn [u]people[u] causing all the problems.

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Which is why a proper datamine by the devs is the way to discover if there actually is a real problem or just a perceived problem for a few vocal players/posters.

Got to also remember that not everyone reads the forum, not everyone minmaxes, not everyone reads the guides or plans a build to get a great build. Some people just pick powersets to see how fun they'll be...

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Yea well that wants putting a stop to as well, god forbit people should just play the game how they want, without fear of someone else not liking it and demanding a nerf.