LiquidX

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Do you acyually play this game or do you just sit in the forums "Poo Pooing" everyone ideas from your Ivory tower? What upsets you SOooooo Much about our badge hunting and Isolator? It isnt Fair!!!!! You sream out, then try to cover it up with intelectuals. Its just a stupid useless badge that I would like to have in my little badge window, I am not asking for the ones come and gone. Every time you respond it seems that you dont want us to have this badge and now you hold IT aloft like a victory over us. Jeez man lighten up.

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Are you attempting to be serious, or are you attempting to be funny with this? Because I can't tell.

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Nor have you been able to justify why you should be able to earn this badge outside of Isolator, other then "I want it! I want it! It's unfair if its not given to me!". The simple fact is that you, me, and everyone else who had been around before Issue 2 had already long passed the requirements to get said badge. And the requirements to get it should not be switched around just because of some misplaced belief of entitlement of the so-called "Loyal Customers".

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The issue is: should characters who miss a badge due to level restrictions be allowed to go back and get the badge they missed?

I say yes. Whatever the original point of badges, they have come to represent an extra form of achievement within CoH/V. Going back to get badges represents extra time put into a character, which in turn represents extra revenue for Cryptic Studios and extra involvement in the world of CoH/V. For every other non-event badge within CoH/V, you can spend the time to obtain something that you may have otherwise missed due to lack of knowledge, lack of time or just plain bad luck.

While I see that LiquidX supports a more iron version of CoH/V (ie you miss it, tough bikkies) the nature of almost all other badges within CoH/V does not support this view. I still haven't gotten around to doing the Positron TF with my main, however I will go back at some point to do it for the badge, even at lvl 50. You can still kill x enemies that are below your level if you need to get certain badges - you missed the Kil Skuls badge because it wasn't available when you were doing Skull missions? No problem. Isolator is the special case where if you missed it (and a lot of avatars did because badges weren't even a twinkle in Statesman's eye at the time) there is no way of going back to get it.

Isolator is the special case. It really shouldn't be.

It's my opinion that getting it should be a non-issue. It shouldn't be a hard badge to get - create it as a Portal Corp mission with a special contact, send people to an instanced version of Outbreak at combat level 1 and let them kill 100 Contaminated. Problem solved.

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And this is where we disagree. Once the requirements of the badge have been passed by, you should not be able to get it through alternate means. Same for event badges. Heck, you shouldn't even be able to Exemplar down and get mission badges, either.

Hell, eventually I want to see badges implemented that you cannot get if you have other badges.

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Classy, real classy.

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I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting it.

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Liquid, come up with as many anologies as you want, hey I know quote the McDonalds post...lol

It still does not justify why pre-issue 2 heroes could not be given the chance to earn it just as everyone else did when badge came out and to this day.

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Nor have you been able to justify why you should be able to earn this badge outside of Isolator, other then "I want it! I want it! It's unfair if its not given to me!". The simple fact is that you, me, and everyone else who had been around before Issue 2 had already long passed the requirements to get said badge. And the requirements to get it should not be switched around just because of some misplaced belief of entitlement of the so-called "Loyal Customers".

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Isolator is not a yearly badge and does not change each year, its the same badge day in and day out. So that does not compare to your skipping jump rope contests.

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Except for the fact that you can no longer fulfill the requirements to get the badge once you leave the tutorial. Hell, you shouldn't be able to exemplar down (Or sidekick up) to get badges from missions you missed either.

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As for the special event badges, like I said before earlier in this thread which Im sure you didn't read since all you like to do is argue over what someone else wants. But all your suggestions are perfectly fine...lol

...better yet, Im not repeating myself, not worth the time to argue with you because you are so anti everything people suggest.

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...Except for the fact that I've supported several suggestions by players that have actually been worthwhile. Such as adding an indicator to show if a player in a group wont get experience because of level differences, like Leech suggested here. Or Robotech_Masters request to make things a little more clear in the subscription screen about how to upgrade your CoH account with CoV. And I also liked the idea of adding "Light" powersets to CoH/CoV as suggested by _Technomancer. Or making positron "Bounce" in steel canyon, as suggested by CodeGuy. Or even adding a Shikigami/Possession powerset like KerianValentine asked.

But of course, you don't want to hear that, do you? You'd rather imagine big, bad, unreasonable LiquidX, sitting in his ivory tower, unreasonable and unrationally poo-pooing every single idea that belongs to someone.

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Now I can see why your forum posts are so high, you spend more time spreading your anti-ism on the forums rather then playing the game.

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Ahhh yes, the old ploy of trying to dismiss everything someone says by using their post count. Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, it's because I have been here on these boards since before beta, making suggestions and generally entertaining people? Or maybe, just maybe, I don't always have access to a computer that can run CoH/CoV but CAN spend my time browsing the forums instead? Or that I read the forums AND play at the same time? (Much like KaliMagdelene does). Oh wait, I forgot... If you did that, then you wouldn't have a convenient excuse to try to dismiss anything that differs from your opinion...

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Have fun tearing this thread apart too.

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Well, as I stated in Emeralds original thread, I'd be willing to compromise IF the "new" earnable Isolator badge had different text.

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BTW? Who the hell made you God Almighty to say you will compromise? Like its your choice if the badge is brought to us by the devs, they will do it, not because you said you will compromise.

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Nor will they do it just because of your self-rightous belief that you are entitled to your every whim just because of you time in the game.

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And to follow this to the logical conclusion... if you were to offer a second Isolator badge for this, would an existing hero who already has Isolator be denied the chance to get a second Isolator badge?

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Yup. You could either get the "original" Isolator, or the "new" one with different text. Not both.

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And what about those of us who *DON'T* want Isolator granted outside of the tutorial? We pay the same monthly fee as you do, after all.

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Do you think it would be appropriate for a hero to get Isolator after the fact if: he did the go-bad TF, got thrown in the zig to Breakout as a level 1 villain, did 50 levels, did the go-good TF, and then was sent to Outbreak as a level 1 Hero?

Or do you just refuse to ever give a way for an existing Hero to ever get Isolator?

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Well, as I stated in Emeralds original thread, I'd be willing to compromise IF the "new" earnable Isolator badge had different text.

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Your entire post supports exactly what I already stated so thanks for understanding my thoughts.

As for the celebrant, I too already said this is a come and gone event badge, if you missed it then there is nothing more you can do to get this badge. I even missed it on some of my heroes, but you don't see me complaining as many of you are, why because the points you and everyone else makes is unreasonable.

As for rolling a new toon, if it were as simple to do this and earn every badge I already have I would do so, but I would be losing many badges for 1 badge that is pretty much given to every new hero that goes through outbreak.

And as I stated before, many heroes that come to these forums, that would like the chance to earn this badge has a legitimate reason to ask for the chance, because they never had the fair chance to earn this badge being a pre-i2 hero.

If you can not distinguish the difference between the two then, I feel sorry for you.

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I stated this in the previous Isolator thread, and I'll state this again... I don't agree with the argument that just because you were playing since beta (Or before Issue 2) somehow entitles you to the badge (Or the right to earn it even if you no longer meet the requirements to do so). It just doesent work.

And, before anyone new to this debate asks, my reasons follow this little analogy I stated in a previous thread:

Lets say theres a Marathon every year that can be entered only by people 12 to 18. So, each year you enter and win, the only reward being the satisfaction of winning. Well, your 19 now and no longer eligible to enter, but now they are also offering a shiny trophy to the winner. Just because now they have a reward doesen't give you the right to be retroactively rewarded a trophy for each win you've ever placed. Nor does it give you the right to demand they change the rules just so you can enter and win this trophy.

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Again I say to the Developers... Does this not show you that we want this? Are we not your customers? MMorgs Die when people stop playing. Let the lvl 50's go back to lvl 1 and do it all over! That would keep the bored on for more months and thats more monthly fees for you. We would get the one badge we want and really... all 50 lvls over again? Isn't that absurb enough? Also didn't those that missed those previous badges aquire one of them this winter? For defeating the Winter Minions. Yep Cold warrior came back and I've heard rumors about Halloween this year. So in the end the only badges you CANNOT collect again will be isolator and Celebrant. Celebrant is for the people who were here then, but why not give us isolator? Is this not harmless? All of you are right it is a useless badge, but how can you "collect Badges" when there is NO possible way of collecting them all? In that respect only then does it lose its purpose. At lvl 50 please give us the choice... to go back and do it all over again. To full back in love with our 50's!

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And what about those of us who *DON'T* want Isolator granted outside of the tutorial? We pay the same monthly fee as you do, after all.

And the only Winter event badge that was brought back this year was the Cold Warrior badge. So there are, what, four other Winter Lord badges you still cannot get again?

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Uhhh...why? Cryptic is making some value judgment on the need to prevent rewarding of the Isolator badge far beyond its inherent value. It's not an accolade or required for anything. Yet there is now a design decision to make it extremely difficult to obtain. Aside from just being obstinate for kicks, what's the negative for allowing completists who through innocent ignorance did not acquire the Isolator? Just to be onery?

Aside from some strange philosophical viewpoint that some things should be denied just because. Especially when a new player is starting out he/she has no idea about badges in the first place.

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That's the thing, though... The basis behind Isolator is to ultimetly be a reward for those who took the time and trouble to defeat contaminated. It's intended to be a suprise, or easter egg, of sorts. (Much like Jail Bird). Allowing people to get it later on defeats the whole purpouse of it.

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thats all we are asking for, I dont want you to just GIVE me it. I would very much like to EARN it. Send me on a 10 Day task force full of Circle o thorns and other nasty stuff... Make me have to fly through a Air mine field with single hit kills. I'd try my hardest till I got the badge and I would enjoy it.

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Well, technically some people ARE asking it just be given to them.

...But then, I'm just splitting hairs, there.

I totally say he should use this.

Or this

Or this

You forgot "The Forum Cartel". We just let Statesman THINK he's running things.

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Remove the isolator badge.

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Agreed. If it'll stop this ridiculous arguement they can have mine back.

Take it completely out of the game. Problem solved.

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Down with the isolator badge! Nurf it in I7!

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... when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

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Fair enough. Puretone, go get mah gun!

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Pax, when you quit ranting and can give me a LEGIT reason why my pre-i2 toons are being discrimnated against I'll start paying attention to your posts.

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Legit Reason? Your reason is right here! *Rips off my shirt* Look at this body! Flawlessly scupltured in service of our forums! Feel how the pulse with loyalty, how solid and serious they are! Feel how! If you don't believe me, then they'll make you believe! Feel!

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Why are you so scared of them awarding this to toons who weren't given the CHANCE to earn it?

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I'm not "scared" as you put it. Chew on this:

You keep saying its "unfair" that you didn't get the chance to earn it. However, your not asking for a chance to earn it... YOU are asking for it to be *given* to you and anyone who had created a character before I2. So how is THAT fair to anyone who created their character, and went through Isolator and actually put in the time and work required to take down 100 contaminated?

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Say your cell company starts a new promotion with your plan. But to get it you need to ask for it. It'll give you 100 extra minutes of usage a month.

Now you've had your plan for 6 months. So they tell you you can't get it because you didn't ask for the bonus when you got the plan (when it didn't exist.) How idiotic would that be? You wouldn't get upset and feel cheated?

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I wouldn't expect the deal because IT DIDN'T EXIST AT THE TIME. If you buy a game now for 50 dollars, and a month later it goes on sale for 20 dollars, you don't get to go back and demand they refund you 30 dollars. If I have cable installed, and two months later they start up a promotion where if you subscribe you get a years free of Skinemax, you don't get to go and demand they give you the free service.

This is along the same lines.

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Your argument doesn't hold water and make sense anymore than my scenario would. You can't tell us we should only get it for having beat 100 outbreak mobs when at the time there was NO POINT in it.

You wouldn't ask for that bonus on your plan because at the time it didn't exist and there'd have been no point to ask for it.

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Exactly. And because the plan didn't exist, I would not be entitled to it now. Just as people are not automatically entitled to Isolator, either.

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The point we're trying to make is that had it been available at the time, we'd have it.

I don't have a hero-side toon post I2 that doesN'T have it. I think I can prove it's something I would have invested the time it.

However at the time there was no reason to sit around hunting 100 mobs in tutorial. So you can't hold that against us.

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Yes. I can. And I am.

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But Liquid... barring the badge what would have been the point? Outside of the badge there's still no point.

I get the principle... but the fact is had the badge been avail then or we had the advance notice... those of us who do get every badge we can would have invested the time in.

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So? If you didn't earn it, you didn't earn it. Even if you didn't "know" about it. Odds are, any new player to the game won't know about it either, so they shouldn't have it retroactively awarded to them just because "they didn't know about it".

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That I'd sign off on. Not going back and getting it, but being awarded it retroactively. God knows even my non-badge toons get it simply because if I ever change my mind I couldn't go back to get it.

That being said you know damned well I'd have gotten it on my pre-badge era toons for that same reason ESPECIALLY since most of those ARE badge hunters.

It should be retroactively awarded to toons who were built BEFORE badges were released. I can't imagine pulling THAT data would be hard. Not like data-mining specific mob kills etc. All they'd need is to locate the toons made before I2.

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If they ARE going to retroactively award it, it should only be awarded for those who actually defeated the 100 contaminated necessary for it. But, since they wern't tracking that back then, the chances are low they would be able to do so with little difficultly. So no, it shouldn't be awarded simply for those who created their accounts before I1 or I2.

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When Issue 2 and the entire badge system was introduced the devs really should have awarded Isolator to ALL characters created between Issue 1 and 2, because as the badge says, we all "began our career on a high note."

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Only if you actually defeated 100 contaminated in Outbreak, and odds are most people didnt. So no, it shouldn't have been auto-awarded.

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Not that the xp is huge or the TO's garner a significant amount of inf, but as the prestige glitch showed, people will be persistant if there's 'free stuff' involved.

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Statesman once said way back in the day that you could create the greatest, funnest system in the world. And you could also code it so that people can sit there and get experience just by hitting the spacebar over and over.

...And people would still use the spacebar and complain about how the game is too boring.

(Note: This is not word for word, but still pretty close)

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1) Oh, I caught it on Page 2, all right. But it didn't take long for you and your cohorts to sink into repeating mean-spirited drivel like this:

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I'll have you know I'm nobodies Cohort. If anything, Celtic is MY Cohort.


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*Your* cohort?! Boy, I'm the first person in this thread to be against the bloody idea!

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Bah, I was hating Isolator long before it was cool!

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Another idea for Isolator!

The Abandoned Sewer System is underneath the entire city, so why not have an entrance in Outbreak!

IIRC, heroes that reach level 35 can enter the Abandoned Sewers. They would have to find the route to Outbreak and would exit a manhole cover in the street. They would be autoexemped to level 1 upon entry.

They could take out 100 contaminated, get the badge, and the only way back to the city would be back through the Abandoned Sewers.

The manhole would only work for L35+ so level 1s wouldn't be able to use it.

This would also be a way to help teach friends that are new to the game. You could meet them in the tutorial and show them the ropes!

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Liquid & Celtic,
What do you think of this idea?

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I don't like it, and theres to much risk to allow Level 50's back in the tutorial zone. What would stop a group of level 50's from getting in, then simply destroying any contaminated they see and preventing people from being able to continue? That's not exactly a way to make a good first impression on newplayers.

What I wouldn't be adversed to, however, is Puretones suggestion. Setting up two "versions" of the badge, with alternative text. If you get one version, you wouldn't be able to get the other. While it would be defeating the purpouse of having Isolator as an "Easter Egg" of sorts, I think it would make for an acceptable compromise.

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1) Oh, I caught it on Page 2, all right. But it didn't take long for you and your cohorts to sink into repeating mean-spirited drivel like this:

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I'll have you know I'm nobodies Cohort. If anything, Celtic is MY Cohort.

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Meanwhile, the Pro-Isolators keep posting their arguments as well as they can.

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Yeah, often things like "Oh my god, its a slap in the face that the Dev's wont let us get this badge!"

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First, the topic of the thread is the Isolator badge. If you have nothing constructive or (as far more typically) destructive to add to a suggestion for Isolator, say nothing. If you have an idea for a totally different issue create your own, seperate topic. The above post doesnt belong here.

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My post was in reply to another poster, so it fits here just fine. If you don't like it, then you shouldn't have read it.

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I reread my post, and it did contain a sharp edge, for that I appologize. But my opinion holds that it obscures the OP's intent of the thread, and remains inappropriate to the discussion. Yes the thread was drifting. I chose your post (which contained a wholely separate topic) as a stopping point for that drift.

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And I disagree. Part of the discussion on the merits of giving a second means of gaining isolator is that if you did so, you would have people using it as a basis for arguments of why every special event badge should also be awarded even if you were not here to obtain it.

This also brought up comments by some people in the thread of why that should be a problem, considering they feel that EVERY badge should be obtainable by every character. This leads up to MY comments of disagreement, and my comments on how it SHOULD be set up. (In fact, doing so as I described would even help increase the uniqueness of characters, as you would be able to see at a glance what choices one hero made in his/her career as opposed to another hero). So I feel its all relevant. Now, if I had made a post contaning nothing but a description of the yumminess of my Dutch Apple Pie with Vanilla Ice Cream, or a post telling everyone to enjoy a nice Ice Cold Wild Cherry Pepsi... Then you would have a point.



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We arent asking for the moon, simply that in some far, dusty niche of Paragon City, some contaminated escape from Outbreak. Heck, as I said before, I'd pay for the privledge.

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But it still wouldn't fit the intent of the badge. The badge is intended as an "easter egg" of sorts. And the badge even SAYS "You started your career on a high note". It wouldn't fit if gained any other way.

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And is that text written in stone? I know that there are 'pre-respec' and 'post-respec' texts to all three Terra Volta trial badges.

Why not 'You began your career on a high note, by personally ending the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone.' If the badge is obtained in Outbreak.

Or... 'You have helped end the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone.' if it's obtained by the 'alternate' Isolator mission.

Something that maintains the rarity of the original Outbreak badge and soothes the OCD of badge collectors without it.

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Hrm. That might be acceptable, but it would still defeat the whole purpouse of it being an "easter egg" type badge.

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Cryptic will never do the datamining necessary to verify that these people are worthy of the Isolator badge; If you were in the same boat, wouldn't you feel just the slightest bit ripped off?

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No, considering I *did* defeat all those Contaminated back with my first character. And I'm one of the "Anti-Isolators".

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Please see my post above, but breifly, other 'kill x' badges were 'cheapened' in a similar manner. Since Isolator does not fit into the category of 'Special Event' (available to every character at the time it was implemented), this arguement holds no weight.

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Of course, when the number of Rikti monkeys needed to get the zookeeper badge was reduced, people complained about having their time and hard work cheepened...