Leortha

Reported on the Wiki:

Pool C
Pacing of the Turtle: Endurance/Recharge/Slow [20-53]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes you can do each TF/SF/Trial as many times as you want and get a Recipe each time. The only limitation is that you can't get another within 4 hours of getting one (at least not on the same character) - though TFs and Trials are counted separately - so for example you could do a Trial, get a Pool D, and then do a quick TF and get a Pool C, even if it was less than 4 hours since you got the Pool D. If you then did another quick TF then you wouldn't get another Pool C recipe if you completed it less than 4 hours after you got the other Pool C. Also the States TF, Recluse SF and Respec Trials reward screen recipes are once every 24 hours.

Yes you can trade (for 0 inf if you wish) Recipes to other characters, but you can't trade between a hero and a villain (even at the Consignment House).

[/ QUOTE ]

One correction to the bolded part. I beleive that the generic Trials and generic TFs are all on the same, single four hour timer, not on two separate four hour timers. Positron listed expressly the eight different timers here. Only one of the eight timers is a four hour timer. All others are 24 hour timers. From the patch note beta, generic trials and generic TFs are indeed all on the four hour timer. So, putting that all together, there is only the one four hour timer for all the generics.

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, when you say street mission what exactly do you mean? Was it a "defeat x" mission? Pool B is certainly what I would 'expect' it to be, but I'm not clear if you are confirming that or refuting it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The devs have expressly said that non-door missions do not get Pool B drops. So, if he was doing a hunt mission, it would have to be a Pool A drop, as far as I know.

Reported on ParagonWiki:

Pool C
Numina's Convalesence: Heal/Rech

And from Pool A:
Debiliative Action: Rech/Immob
Mako's Bite: Acc/Dam/End/Rech
Positron's Blast: Acc/Dam
Pounding Slugfest: Dam/End
Scirocco's Dervish: Acc/Dam

And four others that you had listed that the Wiki did not. Profitible round of reconciliation in the lists.

A few that the Wiki had that you did not:
Pool B
Devastation: Dam/End
Impervious Skin: End/Rech
Malaise's Illusions: Acc/Confuse (3rd for Pool B, pattern violation)
Miracle: End/Heal/Rech
Razzle Dazzle: Stun/Range
Regenerative Tissue: End/Rech
Touch of Death: Dam/Rech
Unbounded Leap: Jump

Pool C you had one the Wiki did not, and Pool D both have the same 8 listed.

Pool A will take a little longer to compare. The Wiki has them broken out Rares vs Uncommons, and you have them lumped together. Comparing that will take a few minutes...

_Brev_? Could you please post your current, up to date list of which IOs are in which pools? I've been trying to keep the ParagonWiki pages on the pool drops up to date. It would be nice to be able to compare to your list. Then I can add any I've missed to the wiki pages, and any that have gone to the wiki that you do not have track of yet can be listed here. (I know a couple of people have posted Pool sourcings there that were not from these boards.)

An idea for trying to plum the depths of Pool B.

This is based on something I discovered yesterday by accident. When you mission-drop a door mission, you get the same chance for getting a Pool B drop as you get from normal mission completion.

1) Have several slots open on Test. The more, the better. Remember how many you have.
2) Select a character from live who has an active mission, has not dropped in the last 7 days, and has easy access to the mission's contact (either Cell active or standing nearby.)
3) Copy that character over to test as many times as you have slots open.
4) Begin to log in the different copies, one by one, dropping the selected mission with each.
5) Record whatever Pool B drops you get.
6) As you get close to running out of copies, start deleting them and repeat from step 2 above.

In general, I would think that this would allow for many more mission completions than would be possible in normal play. Really only of use for seeing what is in Pool B, but it would be quite useful for that.

Just an FYI to anyone coming in late. I think this has been mentioned before, but it bears repeating. Over at ParagonWiki, we are trying to keep up with a publically availible copy of the results of all this data that people have been collecting here. If anyone wants to see what has already been identified as coming from where, please, come check it out.

Also, the main IO set tracking page has been updated to show the known drop pool origins of the various enhancements. Also trying to keep that up to date as people add more data here.

A thanks to all who are taking the time to add notices of what they have found.

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure how this is going to look until I see it in person. However, if we have to do all the "work" of clearing out the hive just to get Hami to spawn and then defeat him then there should be a guarantee of getting a reward instead of this 24 hour limit. What if we defeat Hami after 23 hours? No dice.

[/ QUOTE ]

It looks to be not as bad as you are painting. From the article, there appear to be separate coutners for HOs and Rare Recipes. If you got an HO 23 hours past, you should, in theory, still be able to get a Rare Recipe the 2nd time. Short of a red name confirming this, we cannot be 100% certain of this, but that's how I read the article.

[ QUOTE ]
lets put it one more way: anyone without stealth - what do they do to complete missions? they have to grind through the mission, regardless of what type it is. they might get past a few mobs here and there, but mostly they have to fight through it. stealth and invis already bypass this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not totally true. On both my tanks and scrappers I very often bull through missions, ignoring all mobs until I reach the final room. Stealth is not essential when you have defenses and can just brush off the trivial amount of damage you get from the passing mobs.

I would never try this with a non-stealthed squishy, but the point is that not *all* non-stealthed types have to grind through missions.

[ QUOTE ]
At worst, though, you could alternate between a HO and a recipe, so your time wouldnt be wasted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. Though far from perfect, this does offer at least one solution to the whole 24 hour limit issue. From my reading of the interview, we now will have two separate 24 hour timers on the two choices. If you got an HO in a raid near 24 hours ago, take a recipe this time to be safe.

And, while the following is pure speculation, it would make sense from a programming standpoint... I would not be surprised if the HO/recipe timers are a single timer per reward type, across both Hami raids and LRSF/STF. I'm saying that, if you get an HO from an Hami raid or SF/TF, you cannot get another HO from either for 24 hours. It's one timer for HOs, whatever the source, and one timer for the recipes, whatever the source. As I said above, this is just speculation, until we can actually get onto Test to attack the issue, but it would make sense to me for them to program it that way.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Player A1 puts up a Level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.

Player B1 puts up the same Level 12 TO for 1,000 inf.

Player A2 (trying to transfer funds) offers to buy that level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.

Since player B1 wants less, and is obviously trying to move his items faster, his "for sale" is processed first, so he ends up with 5,000,000 inf (minus fees).

[/ QUOTE ]

Can we assume that it works the other way for LTB listings (looking to buy).

Example:
Player A1 puts a LTB for tech wings at 5 mil
Player B1 had a LTB for tech wings at 10 mil
Player A2 offers tech wings for 5 mil (to transfer to his other character A1)
Player B1 gets the wings since he had the higher offer

And notice, B1 wasn't trying to intercept the wings. His offer could be nearly 7 days old. He just really wanted to buy them for himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO, the concert of Intercept really only applies to transactions intended to transfer Inf. Transactions to try to transfer actual items are much trickier, and much riskier for exactly the scenerio you describe. What you describe is very hard to avoid, and is not, IMHO, an Interception. It's a built in part of the system. Assuming that highest Buy-order gets it, which would be the logical counter to what Positron wrote about the sell-orders, then this would indeed be the logical way to get the seller the biggest profit for his item. That it makes it difficult to transfer items within one account is a side effect, IMHO.

[ QUOTE ]
* that assumes a level range from 1-53. I don't know how someone could get a level 1 SO or DO, but I wouldn't rule out some weird buggy drop.

[/ QUOTE ]

In theory, SK a level 1 character up to assist in defeating an AV that is -4 levels to the mentor. Sking up to fight a AV even to the mentor will get you a +4 (or lvl 5) SO. Have that AV be -4 to the mentor should place the SO drop down four levels as well, or place it at level 1. Possible in theory, but never tried to do it myself. (What would be the point, normally. )

[ QUOTE ]
I'm on ParagonWiki!

[/ QUOTE ]

While we will not really know until we get to start trying things on Test, you gave a step-by-step way to possibly avoid interception. It was seeing the proposals from you and Zombie Man that prompted me to write up that page. I wanted to preserve your ideas so that, when we get access to the system on Test, they can be tried out. If Interception is as possible as it looks to be, it would be nice to have ways to avoid the problems. If your two plans are just left in the middle of this huge thread, who knows whether they will be easily findable once Test goes public? Preserving them keeps them ready for testing and trial once the time comes.

And, in a way, both you and Zombie Man have the same idea at the core. Your plans are not so much about preventing Intercepts as they are about detecting them in time. If you can detect a Interception in progress, you have the ability to, at worst, walk away from the situation and try again another time.

[ QUOTE ]
QR:
How can you grief on this? You can't see the set price, right? Nor who's selling it? So, unless you know person X is selling item y for Z million influence, how can you deliberately intercept the influence laundering item?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cut & Pasting the summary I wrote up earlier today over at ParagonWiki...

Hazards
Given how the consignment houses are understood to function, the above basic transfer method is subject to a couple of different versions of interception, where a different character than the intended recipient ends up receiving the transfer. Both involve the interceptor happening to be at the auction house during the time it takes to swap over from one toon to the other to complete the transfer. This may seem like a small chance of occurrance, except that there are likely to be people specifically waiting around the consignment houses specifically to try to make these intercepts in order to make a bunch of Inf for little effort.

Buy/resell interception
This one is actually the easier of the two to defend against. It involves the interceptor seeing the odd, low level item placed up for auction, buying it himself, and immediately relisting it in order to be the one to receive the transfer. This scheme relies on the fact that items can be bought for much larger amounts than they are actually listed for. For example, player A wants to transfer 10 million Inf from character A2 to character A1. Character A1 only has 10,000 Inf on hand. Because of the 10% listing fee, the most A1 can list the item for is 100,000 Inf. The player wants to transfer much more than that, and so goes ahead and doesn't bother listing it for even that much, instead listing it for a reletively small amount, say 100 Inf. He intends to then swap over to A2 and go ahead and buy it for 10 million Inf. But while he is changing characters, player B purchases the cheep item and immediately relists it. A2 gets logged in, and goes to purchase the item. But since he cannot see who he is purchasing from, he ends up sending his 10 mil to player B instead of character A1.

This one has a simple solution: do not try to transfer more Inf at one time than you are able to list items for. This means that, if you want to transfer 10 million to a character who is starting with only 10,000, you will need to do it in a couple of stages, getting the poor character first to 100,000, then 1 million, and finally 10 million. This protects because at each step the item cannot be purchased for less than the amount that is intended to transfer. The only way to buy/resell will effectively give the poor character the desired amount of money anyway.

Same item interception
This one is harder to protect against, and the strategy designed to protect against the buy/resell interception actually works against defending against this one.

This one is based on the Interceptor seeing the transfer being listed, and happening to have a copy of the same item already in their inventory. While there are a huge number of potential transfer items, it is still a finite list. And some types of items are much more likely to be in the hands of random Inf-poor alts. Low level TOs of various types, for instance. The interceptor watches the consignment listings, watching for a listing that happens to match an item he already has. The moment he sees such a listing pop up, he immediately lists his own copy for sale at a minimum price. According to Positron, the low offers sell first, so when the transfering player logs back in with his rich alt and goes to buy the item, it will most likely be the interceptor's version that gets sold, not the transferer's poor alt's version. Listing high to avoid the buy/resell problem just makes it harder to avoid this one.

I've written up a ParagonWiki page on the subject of Influence transfers. How they can potentially be intercepted, and proposed strategies for avoiding interception. All totally speculative at this point, but it gives a starting point, and tries to be a summary of the hazards, pitfalls, and possible solutions for making this work. Any comments/updates either here or on the wiki are welcome.

[ QUOTE ]
Actually it doesn't matter if it can be seen or not, the odds of someone being able to find the enhancement/salvage needed to match your within the ~3 minutes it'll take to do a transfer, especially if done off-peak hours after I9's lost its shinyness, is virtually zero. Which is pretty much the same odds as someone just by random coincidence putting up the item you offered a buy order for.

[/ QUOTE ]

The people in another thread who have detailed out how to likely intercept transfers would use one of two solutions. Either they only look for listings of odd TOs that they alreayd have in their inventory. It only takes a moment to look and, if they see a listing for a lvl 3 Flight TO, and already happen to have such in their inventory, then it only takes a few moments to list their own to try to intercept. That's the key. They are not seeing what you have listed and then going looking for the match, they are watching for you to list what they already have.

The other option, assuming that you have not listed the odd-ball TO for a very high price, is for them to simply buy it themselves and relist it, waiting for the large transfer to hit them instead of the alt.

[ QUOTE ]
Just to bring us back on point, early in this thread it was stated by someone who "may or may not" have "insider" "information" about "code" "currently" "on test" from a "friend" or "something" that in fact you not only see the asking price, but you also who the seller is.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's all and good, but it's based on the assumption that things had changed very recently on Test from how originally planned. But then Positron jumped into the thread and reinforced that, no, you don't get to choose which one you buy, you get the one listed for the lowest price, which puts things right back in line for interceptions of the transfers to happen.

[ QUOTE ]
I must've missed it. There's an inf transfer built in?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's being deliberately vague, for some reason, but I'm assuming he's talking about using Buy-orders. I detailed exactly how to do it earlier in this thread. Assuming that the buy orders are not publically listed, it makes a fairly good way to transfer Inf back and forth using the consignment houses. If there is a public listing of the buy-orders, then they are just as bad, or worse, as the list-first method.

Edit: I type too slow.

[ QUOTE ]
Ah, geez, Posi, can you guys just give us an easy way for one of our characters to give another one of our own characters some inf? <_<

I mean, it's great that the inf amount will be increased (makes those 20-30 transfers go by a heck of a lot quicker), but requiring a third party to do this is getting kinda old. The consignment houses looked like a good way to help out our alts, especially on other servers, but I guess the only workaround is to sell some item that currently isn't offered, then quickly switch to a wealthy alt, before somebody puts the same item up for a much lower price. >_>

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a much safer way. Because Buy-orders are (presumed) hidden, they cannot be as easily sniped/intercepted. So you:
1) Find an object that is not currently for sale via your lowbie. Get that item onto the lowbie and get them in the consignment house. Do *not* list the item.
2) Swap to your high level, and have the high level place a buy-order for the item. Since noone is currently listing that item, the invisible buy order should be reletively (though not perfectly) safe.
3) Swap back to your lowbie and list the item, instantly fulfilling the buy-order, and completing the transfer.

Not 100% safe, but it would require a huge amount of luck to intercept these things when the buy-order is placed first.

[ QUOTE ]
whats with all the hate

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the target of the vitriol was just saying that he was going to revel in ripping off other players by intercepting any influence transfers he can. Some people have little tolerence for self-proclaimed theives.

[ QUOTE ]
Player A1 puts up a Level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.

Player B1 puts up the same Level 12 TO for 1,000 inf.

Player A2 (trying to transfer funds) offers to buy that level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.

Since player B1 wants less, and is obviously trying to move his items faster, his "for sale" is processed first, so he ends up with 5,000,000 inf (minus fees).

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh.... My.... Gooodness...

One very interesting thing, though. Reading between the lines, this does pretty much say that there is no intended block on buying and selling the same item within the same account, pretty much confirming that Inf transfers are going to be possible.

Definitely will need to do the buy-order-first strategy to be reletively safe from sharks and theives.

[ QUOTE ]
Unless this changed, the scenario that I outlined is very much possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please read the whole thread. The fact that it has changed is exactly what has been claimed, by someone who "may or may not" be in the closed beta. Beleive the claim or not, but it's now out there, and I, at the least, accept it as a logical possibility for the devs to respond to the situation.

[ QUOTE ]
If what Villain says is true this isn't a possible scenario any more. You get a listing for each sale, and the seller and price are both listed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anonymous and hidden price sales had some definite benefits for the seller, but it looks like the potential for abuse was just too high, as far as the devs were concerned. When we have not even seen the system, and people are already posting solid methods to use the secrecy to rob other players, it's time to change up the game-plan.