Leo_G

And I'll reiterate my point: Bringing up stamina is moot, as everyone will have it. But when you post n00b sounding posts with n00b sounding problems, expect n00b level answers. If you've got to choose between death or running away which you consider both lame, claim you've got the know-how to handle it yet don't want to be bothered to use the other options...

And before you say it, I'm not calling you a n00b, but what does this sound like?


Sounds like someone that is faced with a problem, knows there are solutions to solve it but refuses to learn them. Notice, in my response, I didn't bother listing every little solution you can use to mitigate the issue. But listing them all would *really* make me sound condescending. I guess I could have just posted a /facepalm picture and said you're exaggerating, but that ain't my style.

I'd rather not put out fake etiquette or 'spare feelings' when I don't agree, even with a poster I deal with often (yeah, just because I post with T_A elsewhere doesn't mean I'll spare his feelings about the little pictures he posts at times. don't really need to press on it again, but it does annoy me at times >_>) No sugar coating here, even if I *am* in a good mood.


I'd say 'bratty' = 'l2ply', at *least* considering l2ply isn't even a direct insult. But if that's the only thing people consider offensive about my first post, then I will retract it and apologize. Again, I don't see it as all that offensive (if someone says that to me, I just laugh because I *do* know how to play under a slew of circumstances) but apparently others do.

So sorry, Sam. I didn't mean it the way you read it so I'll retract that.

I honestly don't know >_>

But how is it suppose to be 'someone obsessed with Japanese culture'? Holes aren't known for their obsessive nature, I surmise.

I'm most likely the best they're gonna get. We're j-holes, afterall.

While I agree, what I'm saying is, to properly tell the reader what a power does in the detail you're looking for, it'd basically have to write up an entire paragraph explaining it to the minutest detail because the way some powers work are odd. Perfect, I suppose, for if you're wondering how a certain proc will work in a power or whatever...but even then, it'd be like reading a bible and may require a guru to reassure you're comprehending it correctly.

IMO, you're better off seeking the guru who will most likely know the numbers and how to explain the powers' function.

Just to bring that discussion full circle: some believe the loss of AoE and utility for Hide and those criticals is an equivalent price. I honestly couldn't say if that's true or not, only that I don't agree. But I could also be bias, as I see strong ST attacks (and AS, and demoralize) as strong alternative tactics in battle in contrast of the popular 'AoE is king' perspective.

...and I might have had a few beers, so that might be changing my perspective.

I was speaking on behalf of the j-holes past, present and future. I'm not typing too fast for you to keep up, am I? >_>

I honestly doubt moderately abrasive posts every now and then will make that big a difference. So long as I don't pull an Umbral and sound completely condescending (and don't say I am. I haven't gone through everyone's posts and said how 'wrong' they are yet) or resort to name calling (how about slapping B_I on the wrist for putting down that 'bratty' comment?), I'll at least be tolerable...which is all I ask for.



I'm always in that position. Notice that I don't pick posts apart and comment on every little segment even though I have a lot to say. It was hard once, now I can do it with some consistency. So I try to bump curious/interesting threads and say my piece but at the same time, try not to *keep* pushing it further onto another tangent...I guess this whole 'behavior on the forums' is another tangent, but I at least wanted to point that out and hopefully drop it.


Just to reiterate, I'm not skimming, I'm consiously shortening my responses so the thread doesn't hurtle into off-topic zone. If your management and tactics are up to snuff, then what was with the hyperbolized statement in your first post? As if you'd die without stamina over running like a coward? And I'd hardly paint non-fitness builds as either obsolete, gimped, cowards or dead, which is all I get from reading many of the posts so far.

This isn't about the haves and have-nots, just making a general point. That people latch onto the 'l2ply' phrase and completely forget anything else in the post is probably more a point. Not that that is important, but have at it. I'm not going to drill all the hyperbole posted so far as I'd be here all night...

Glad we could amuse you.

To save you the surprise, you won't lose the option to respect otherwise have fitness thrust onto your build. Instead, if you currently have no fitness powers, you'll magically have them all once you log in. No respec required. I think the only way around it is picking up swift/hurdle and leaving the other pool alone. As long as you never respec in that circumstance, you can stay away from either swift or hurdle + health/stamina.

Example: My Spines/Dark stalker and EM/EA stalker that don't have fitness at all now, will have all 4 when logging in i19. But my Claws/EA brute has hurdle and health but not swift and stamina and will have to respec to get the rest of the pool.

But it's just like many people say, inherent fitness is subtle enough to be ignored. You won't be suddenly regening your HP back in a blink, you won't be suddenly leaping over tall buildings or able to run unoptimized attack chains without worry.

Well, the NA way to do it is find someone that RPs (like someone you've RPed with before), ask them if they're interested in joining a thread, and then just make it yourself.

I'm sure there are people, like you, that are kind of waiting for 'new stuff' to pop up to join and other RPers that wouldn't mind joining something else on the side.

I like it this way. Just seems to me, EU is exclusive while NA is more inclusive even though I don't really RP post that much.

You caught me, you know me so well >_>

I am a tad grumpy (who wouldn't be? althought this year's black friday wasn't that bad at all) but I'm not any more confrontational than the original statement was obtuse. It's just, in my grumpy-ish state, I don't really care who I'm saying it to. But if there were little credibility in what I say, I should just be brushed off like any basic troll, right?

Anyway all will be good after a bit of the consumption later tonight...

Not really, considering the quoted is just a pair of sentences vs, like, half a post. But I was particularly aiming at what I originally quoted to leave the rest alone. However the rest ended up being touched on considering how touchy people get about 'l2ply' when it's in the same thread as the terms 'stamina' or 'fitness'. If you don't see how interesting it is, perhaps you should step back for some perspective. In the offending post and its quote, fitness or stamina weren't even involved and could as easily apply to anyone that has stamina or doesn't...unless what you said is actually what you do, in-game...

Well, I did say I don't really care who I'm saying it to, I just post what sparks my interest in a post. Just stating a fact. No more harmless than the accusations, name calling and generalizations being thrown my way. Please prove me wrong, but it feels like there's some deep seeded prejudice lingering in regard to the subject otherwise the 'When I picked up stamina it completely turned everything around' talk isn't needed. It's as if you must justify the change coming or shift everyone's perspective to your own. What's the deal, anyway? But it won't change the facts: better management of endurance and better tactics regarding the foe is your magic cure, with or without stamina.

Score 1 more for Stalker/stealth tactics, then. It's super easy to tell when an Illusionist is using their phase when you're up close and in their face.

Another tell is the sound they make just before phasing. I've learned to listen for it then wait some time before jumping in to attack (I should really time it so I can put a count to it). Can't remember where I learned either trick of telling they phase so I might not be able to attribute that knowledge to me playing Stalkers a good deal of the time.

Well I don't need the details >_>

But if the 300ft dragon is going to 'do the deed' with a human, he kinda can't be 300ft tall. If he has the power to change his shape/size, that is a useful power that should be described...

And just to make this clear, I doubt anyone said such. I know I didn't say 'you took stamina so you need to lrn2ply'. Is that what you *really* saw? Because that's a big leap. Hell, you can take stamina and *still* run out of endurance. What does that say about any of your stances?

I didn't get an unexpected response, as indicated by the many past 'Stamina is mandatory' threads. Even for the accusations of 'he must play regen' posts and such, it's nothing new.

But to see players will still find a way to separate players into subgroups *is* an epiphany. Especially considering I never stated anything about fitness and those that take it (or not).

Probably because it wasn't really called for either. The statement I quoted in the first post really hadn't much to do with what the OP was even asking nor was it even all that truthful. Only in the context of someone that doesn't know what they are doing does it make complete sense.

It also comes with a 20% dmg buff, a 30% recharge buff and some resistance to endurance drain if you were facing such foes.

It was improving the efficiency of your character. By how much, I can't tell as I'm not a numberz wiz. But to say x% of recovery magically solved your issues is interesting seeing as such a low number can easily be duplicated with a % of endurance redux.

So 'Stamina will fix this'? Yeah, probably similarly to a certain amount of END redux, or a large enough damage bonus would fix it.

It depends what your sense of fun is. I enjoy progress and in the early levels, you feel progress in every respect. But it slows down past lvl 35 which is when I start to switch to previous alts. It's not that it's 'not fun', it's just 'not as fun'. Probably the same most feel with the early levels because, honestly, it's not that challenging...

If you're that offended, you really need to grow some thicker skin. Or is internet speek 'serious business'. Gosh, I should really brush up on my memes.

And how could I be telling everyone who has Fitness that if I take fitness on some of my characters too? Is there some kind of racial divide between humans who do and don't? Is this like that whole Hero vs Villain thing?

Some growing up is needed...

So what I say isn't true? Hardly, considering the whole 'I gotta run scared mid-fight cuz I'm out of blue' isn't magically resolved by getting stamina so there's bigger issues at hand.

Or are you talking about going on a tangent? I'll just post about anything that sparks my interest in a thread.

If we *really* need to go back on topic, the OP isn't asking for advice for his builds so all the 'OP you don't need to' talk is pointless as his dilemma is purely 'to move this unique or not to move'. He wasn't asking for concepts what what fitness is or isn't either so whatever. For my builds, those that don't have fitness going into i19 receive no change as I find it more fruitful to just put a lvl 50 IO in those powers than expensive uniques I only have on a handful of characters (that, incidentally, have them in fitness + extra slots to capitalize on the bonus without sacrifice).

Not particularly. For who the Real Numbers are meant for, they serve their purpose to describe in non-cryptic terms what a power does ('superior' damage doesn't tell us much and often times those type of descriptors *really* are false). For newer players that aren't even looking at how much damage/effect a power does, just 'what' it does and to what magnitude, I don't see the issue.

For people like you and me, that want the specifics, it's not like the information isn't there. Otherwise, how are we knowing the effects of these powers now?

What you seem to want is the inside mechanics of a power (like how does the new Gauntlet work or Jolting Chain function, etc.) because for the general purpose of a power, it kinda doesn't matter if the radius is really 25ft or broken up into smaller areas. All we need to know is, once you click LR/SC, everything blows up.

Then l2ply, use inspirations or stop thinking you need a bloody full blue bar to function.

I'm still surprised to see people popping blue pills when they have over 1/3 a bar left or wait to recover. Newsflash, you can fight with less than half a bar, and the better you slot the more you get out of that 225% END you have sitting in your inspiration tray.