Leo_G

It makes perfect sense. We already can do LR > AS. Not every melee AT is Elec/SD.

What doesn't make sense is Stalkers having better defense on what should be even before considering mods.

Not sure what your stance is, BrandX. That charging with a shield shouldn't keep you hidden or that much AoE dmg shouldn't be in the hands of stalker...because both those are patently wrong.

Okay, so the devs remove shield charge and leave in GC and PF....now Stalkers have higher base defense because they also have Hide? How does that make sense again?

Don't be silly. That would just make AS aanother cheap DPS tool. All you'd have to do then is get down it's endurance costs then max out on recharge to pump it out as often as possible (i.e. button mash)

I've got an Elec/Regen and a Spines/Dark. The only stalkers I occasionally turn off bosses. I challenge you to take down even a tough boss with those sets.

Yeah, Elec and Spines are great for AoE and can manage some decent ST,. but one thing you forget about those sets: They are SLLLLOOOOOOOOOOWW. Any decent ST they manage is at a fraction of the speed of even Martial Arts.

While I could see the issue of Electric armor, I find it a downgrade to try and shoehorn RttC in WP. You have to realize Placate doesn't bring hide back up so it will cause problems with using it like other auras...except it has no effect to mitigate the enemy's attack

Also, needing to stand in the middle of a spawn to heal? Nah, Reconstruction is far superior. Same with Invulnerability, if/when that's proliferated, get rid of Invincibility and replace it with Shadow Meld clone.

Lastly, only those dmg auras were lost for Hide. RttC was replaced with Reconstruction. WP lost Quick Recovery for hide.


What set combos are these that are horrible?

Epics and the new final tier leaping pool power. But I find adjusting the spawn size down to work just as good.

Grant Cover? Phalanx Fighting?

The idea isn't to remove the thing to try and piss off as many as possible, it's replacing the easiest analog so they can be lazy. :P

Just reemphasizing this point because it is a huge misconception that 'scrapping' is for scrappers and what brutes/tankers do is somehow different and so what stalkers do must be different too. Scrapping is for 'melee' and that's about it.

As for hit-and-wait, in one perspective, it *can* be viewed as being rewarded for such actions. However, it's my perspective that Stalkers are simply not *penalized* in situations that pause melee. The other ATs will be penalized in that their DPS will be effected, their buffs are going to waste and they get nothing. Stalkers are given another shot at a crit, the chance to AS and to demoralize and they technically get this for free. And this opportunity is present any time the foes aren't standing around or are out of range, moving to new targets or moving away from special attacks.

Another note:

Lotus Drop is a targetless AoE. Server will calculate ToHit upon pressing the button. You have to pause and be sure foes are in range of the attack. Enemies might be dead or out of range by then.

Flashing steel is a target cone. Server will calculate if foe is in range then ToHit check after depending on your position at that point. You can stretch *any* cone if you move fast enough (easy with inherant hurdle/sprint) and hit target cap far more often. So while that PBAoE is always 8-10ft radius, you can turn 7ft cone into a ~14-18ft cone.

OMG you are *waving* around double standards! You did it right there in that same run-on sentence!

'ANY AoE'? Yeah you say that while holding up EM as an example (as if EM does *any* decent AoE for any AT but Dominators) while protesting you have no AoEs. You have DBs, you have Kinetic, you have spines. Hell, you ask for *any* AoE as if Flashing Steel isn't a retardedly easy 180 degree cone.

This argument really vexes me. I really hope the devs hurry and proliferate Fire Melee, pump out Street Justice and Titan Weapons so these type of posters will finally shut the heck up...

Not to mention he got brute mods wrong. Tankers are .8 melee mod and brutes are *below that*. Brutes pass up tanker though with 20% fury.

You said 'burst AoE'. None of the sets or powers you mention are really capable of that, at least not on the scale I mentioned with a stalker's.

When someone says 'burst' the qualifiers are usually two-fold: 1. being fast in as few clicks/little animation time as possible and 2. consistence not being effected by outside sources (i.e. pull that damage out your pocket or keeping it there).

Spin, Dragon's Tail, Whirling Sword/hands...these aren't really 'bursty'. Even with BU, it's not (which claws doesn't have...you'd need 2 stacks of FU *then* the potential might be there). That isn't to say Scraps and Brutes can't, its just 'burst' is usually limited to specific builds/strats/powersets. Using Fiery Embrace + BU and Burn + AoE is very much burst. BU + Shield Charge is too, but Soul Drain on a WP char or Power Siphon with Inv is not.

You either say you have double standards when it comes to specific builds, be they Brute Scrap or Stalk that are capable of ST, AoE burst/DPS, or you'll simply have to accept that certain sets will do ST dmg and other sets will do AoE dmg. You cannot hold up Stalker MA or EM and whine about lack of AoE or burst when there are sets like DB, Spines and Elec melee and how we'll be getting Street Justice with all the AoE intact and most likely the same treatment for every other new set we'll get.

But Stalkers have AoE burst. Just eat a red, pop BU, and use hide/placate with Burst, 1kcuts, Throw Spines, Thunderstrike/LR, Fire Ball, etc.

You have the potential of doing AoEs with 50% crit chance, and two of them if one is from hide and the other is in conjunction with Placate. Who else can do that but Blasters with Aim+BU?

Well I was only talking about the 'problem' targets. All those other 8 targets are what get in the way of my scrapper (literally. when you're trying to rush a guardian before it pops a quartz, there's the possibility it will be alerted sooner because the other foes between you and the guardian have linked aggro). When there are 2 foes like guardians *in a spawn*, what options do you have on a defense based scrapper...or tanker/brute for that matter. I remember the same conundrum on my SD/DM tanker. Even with high HP, decent resists and near capped defense, if I didn't kill the guardians + quartz with shield charge (or couldn't if it hadn't recharged) I'd have to kite to keep the foes from LoS of the quartz. Then the guardians would be forced to unsummon and resummon in another spot. This gives some time to get at the guardian again if the rest of the spawn isn't in the way of course.

I have been in situations on my Elec/elec brute, SD/DM tanker, Kat/SR scrapper, Kin/Elec scrapper, Fire/SD brute, Claw/EA, and a few others where I wish I had a 'drop dead now' strike, that the normal functionality of the set/AT just doesn't have. That said, there are exceptions. My DB/fire brute just doesn't care. Things just kinda die. It's fun but rather boring. The only choices I have to make is what AoEs to use that fight... And on my MA/SD, he sort of has some 'drop dead now' attacks but then he's not that amazing a survivor or in AoE either.

This is my whole point everytime people bring up buffing stalker damage up past scraps. I love my stalkers to death, but so do i love my scrappers, blasters, brutes and everything else I play. Is it so hard to make a character and appreciate its differences rather than playing the same old set-up.

I guess, if you simply look at the binary. But even on my def capped scrappers, they're limited to just scrapping. Its annoying when you have to go up against a certain foe (over and over again) in a mission that can screw you and your only option is to scramble to deal with them.

On my Kat/SR who is soft capped with procced out attacks and DA for tanking, can run lots of enemy groups no problem. Then he runs into Devouring Earth with the Guardians and their "you have no defense" power. I have to save BU for them, turn on my stealth sprint and pray I hit them before they summon anything. And if there are 2 guardians in a spawn? Scramble!

For a stalker I can outright kill them and if there are 2, placate and turn the corner so his buddies aren't getting buffs. Things are *easy* when you can plan a whole encounter out and execute it perfectly.

The situation most face with stalkers/scrappers is when you min/max. If the scrap can't plan it out? Build them to just overwhelm the challenge. It basically means if there is a challenge in the game, you build the character so it's no longer a challenge. On a Stalker, the fight is still a challenge because you can lose but if you sequence everything, you turn a challenge into a one-sided fight.

I don't want this to change.

Personally, I think Scraps should be the better DPS fighter. If Stalkers were ever to recieve a buff, I'd like their criticals improved. Leave their base damage lower. Make hidden/placate criticals 3x damage vs 2x and make regular criticals 2.5x damage.

Stalkers should seek to sequence their abilities to overcome challenges vs just building to overcome everything.

I think you're looking too far into this combo level thing. I've heard that this system is like what Rogues use in som other game I haven't played but from other discussions detailing SJ...

You use builder attacks to build up your combo level. Each combo level has different effects added upto level 3 which is the max. Using a finisher *spends* ALL your combo levels and returns you to 0.

The only way your argument might seem like a problem is if the builders give less than half a point. Other than that, it's just a matter of 'spend the animation time = get the combo lvls'. You're not missing out on any opportunities if you're just attacking and AS should qualify as attacking.

So the only advantage to building lots of combo points I could see is to give you ample time to choose a target, get in range and use a finisher. Your points would expire but you'd still be at max...then you drop to 0 after the finisher...

This is far and away an example from DB combos.

But the way I see your stance is...you find using AS as a waste so don't want any extra features tied to it. AS itself probably takes the time of *at least* 2 attacks to use so removing this particular feature (AS having a +counter of 2 or 3 when the attacks possible in that time frame is possibly more) is literally making AS a worse choice of an attack in even more situations.

Fine. You don't like using AS. What about everyone else that wants to? It only makes sense that an attack that takes as long as at least 2 builders to complete grants at least 2 combo points.

I don't see what the big deal is. It's not like the stalker version works counter to their playstyle. As the DBs combos aren't essential for damage, it's not far fetched that the max combos finishers are no more damaging than the regular level finisher. As far as I heard, it's just upping the secondary effect.

I will. Shouldn't be too hard considering all my resist/regen stalkers also have defense too. And how often are you not capped if not nearly so on mid-lvl teams now-a-days? LOL you speak as if people don't pick up maneuvers or play SoA or use IOs.

Probably not. I'm actually hoping SJ is an attack st that favors the Tanker/Brute rather than the other 2. Kinetic already leans more toward Scraps/Stalks so it's only fair. If the dmg buff is low (like 30%) and short (10 sec) but quick to recharge (30sec) That would lean the power more toward "click it for a quick finisher" rather than high-end DPS since the animation of the buff might eat into that a bit. It'd result in Scraps using it less like a perma-huge DPS gain and more toward how Stalker uses its placate.

The above might cost its popularity with Scraps but it'd be all the rage for Brutes and debuff-tastic with Tanker gauntlet -res + exploiting finishers. For Stalkers, it'd just be another one of those sets that has decent AoE. But that's just my speculation, no more unfounded that the rest of the stuff being thrown around in the thread.

I'd say your argument *is* flawed. You basically admit you min/max your build to marginalize external mitigation and KB itself. This is not a flaw in the mechanic, a discrepency of the game or a qualifier to alter the game into your ideal scenario.

You see, the characters you build are maximized for herds and minimilized in dispersed situations. I build many of my characters to capitilize on both. I suppose you only have yourself to blame for your incapable build.

*pat's EG on the back sypmathetically* :P

>_<

Detrimental to who? If *you* are being overwhelmed, you're better alive than dead. If there are allies around and you do end up dead, KD foes will only give the team a second to adjust vs several seconds.

And doing that gets rid of the one advantage KD has in that situatio : speed of melee damage. No one likes to wait for herders as it is (except maybe the AoE nazis) so to taunt then move and *wait* just makes wastes as much time as if you just scatter them with KB.

Or what if other KB/KD is present? That make the alternate process take longer.

And this is strictly KD vs KB. KB + taunt beats out KD + taunt for mitigation every time unless you are constantly reapplying it.

My only Kheld is a PB and I still don't understand the hate behind Solar Flare. It's not like a PB has a whole lot of PBAoEs or auras that they need to chain for max effect. And while those foes are on the ground that's plenty of time to throw out a cone, shift into nova and throw out another.

KB enhances other KB. You can simply knock the target back in again. Meanwhile the target is helpless.


Well currently, I don't deal with any complaints except for the occasional mis-timed gale when an ally lays down an ice slick at the same time. Other than that, people deal with occasionally chasing down a target while I blow the foes back into my rain patches. Or on my Energy/fire or DP/fire, the foes are simply dead. Can't complain about dead foes.

Can you promise no one will ever even passively suggest I turn off my KB or some such?

EG, you do know what KB is for, right? It's a multi-facet tool for mitigation *and* positioning.

To claim using a multi-use tool in a manner not fully expressed by its text book function is very close minded and constricting. If one were to need to stop a mass of foes surrounding you because you were being overwhelmed, KB Hand clap is just as good as KD but also giving you the room to position yourself.

If you needed to move a set of targets to a (or away from) a location, KB Handclap is the only solution vs KD. You just need to adjust your position so the enemy is on one side of you. KD wouldn't do the job.

If you needed to clear an ally who is surrounded, KB Handclap would easily and quickly accomplish this. KD would require several applications while your (possibly mezzed) friend can get to a safer spot.

The only real advantage KD has over KB is you can do more (melee) damage before needing to change your position. It doesn't offer more mitigation (less in many cases), you don't have the utility of positioning targets and it requires constant reapplication to close the gap between its mitigation and KB's.

And who do you think you are, a mere gaming mortal, posting such inerior tactics among us gaming meta-gods, the immortals that surpass even the well's omni-statistical-bullcrappery?

Be off! Your puny mortal mind woud never grasp the complexities of knockback such as the "knock it back where it started" method or god-like skills such as "Follow".

And to attemt to prove it by pen picking powers from individual sets is about as useful as proving it does less damage by the same pen picking method.

Hint: it's not very, at least IMO. Sets are balanced wholly, not power by power.