LISAR

Originally Posted by Boomie

I'm glad you're back.

Originally Posted by Boomie

The thread was threadjacked long ago and has only went back on track in a few posts.

Originally Posted by Mr_Grey

Lisar, the irony of your argument is that PvPers complain and complain that the Zones are empty. They complain that their would-be opponents flee from them instead of standing and fighting.

Now you're telling the potential newcomers not to even come.

Instead of taking a look at what you're doing and the likelihood that maybe you really are in the wrong with the approach of anarchic combat, you're embracing the entropy that is damaging your experience. You may believe that you're telling players to have a thicker skin, but what you're winding up with is a "holier-than-thou" attitude that is only going to further turn players off from the PvP experience.

We can do plenty well without PvP, and have proven it demonstrably. PvP, however, cannot do without more players. Without the players, you're just floating in an empty zone, waiting for foes who have found that the easiest, and possibly best, way to beat your game is to not play it.

Originally Posted by Tonality

Someone died in PvP. True story.

Reading this topic has actually made me want to PvP some of the posters here. Wanna fight about it?

In the abyss in Aion you are in a PvP zone, but can expressly choose to do only PvE missions which involve you killing NPCs. There is a greater reward to do this. However, you are also a reward to any hunting party that might happen to stop by. It's annoying to get ganked when you're trying to do something besides PvP. It's even more annoying if the other side has complete control over the very area you'd like to be. I suppose I should just ask them nicely to let me go finish my NPC missions there then.

It's why I think Aion toting the acronym "PvPve" is nothing new to MMOs.

In Aion, if I wanted to do a PvE mission in a PvP zone where Elyos controlled that reagion, I had to find some friends to go drive off those self-righteous Elyos. Then a few hours later, I'd join my legion and go camp the starting area and we would kill Elyos by the hundreds. Was my behavior griefing because I kept those Ellies from doing their missions? Hardly. I never was banned, and I did this nearly every evening for a week.

This topic would have been locked by now on the Aion boards, simply because players understand the nature of PvP. Here, PvP is taboo. To actually see some people imply that they should be able to acquire a shivan without being pestered by a PvP'er is maddening. It is not griefing if a player decides to consistently prevent another player from using a heavy, or getting a shivan. It's PvP, and the PvP'er is using the zone as it was intended. I'm not sure the Devs would ever say that our use of nukes and shivans in TF's was ever 'intended'.

None of the PvE arguments will hold water in a PvP oriented game. The reason they do here is because CoH wasn't designed around PvP, and there isn't incentive for a regular player to even consider PvPing. (I'm talking about practical incentives, not pipe dreams). No real resolution outside of a redname posting in this topic is ever going to be found. In the end, the best resolution is to call the shivans a PvPvE mission, because that's pretty much what it is.

I've probably gotten 2 kills in CoH PvP. I got over 1600 in Aion in two weeks. Those numbers alone sum up my position on CoH PvP.

Originally Posted by Mr_Grey

We've been over this. This isn't war, it's a game.

Roleplay PVP has already been soundly rejected.

Originally Posted by Mr_Grey

PvP isn't Russian Roulette. You do your and all the arguments associated with your stance a disservice with such a grossly misappropriated analogy.



I see no reason to let the bullies run the playground.

Originally Posted by Sister_Twelve

If you go into Alterac Valley, there is no particular reason to be there other than to engage in the pvp experience. If you go into any of the CoH zones, there is definitely a reason to be there other than to do so.

Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man

The Shivan mission can not be completed without a PVE component. That doesn't mean that you personally have to engage in PVE, but if nobody does, then the mission simply cannot be completed, ever. You can steal someone's shards and/or wait for them to clear out a firebase for you, but if someone doesn't clear a firebase (ie, engage in a PVE activity), you're left with a useless green glow and some rocks in your nav bar.

The mission can however, be completed without any PVP whatsoever. Even if I see someone glowing bright green and taking out the last turret of a firebase with only a sliver of health remaining, I'm still not going to attack them. It's not required for me to do so.

And the latter is the way that I, personally, prefer it. Sure, I absolutely 100% acknowledge by stepping into Bloody Bay that a million zillion ninj--er, Stalkers might jump me all at once, but there is nothing stating that I'm required to fight them. If they show up, I'm well within my rights to take my ball and go home, and I most likely will.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

Here's the quintessential question - why NOT design something which doesn't work without other people? Why, indeed. Other games manage it just fine, and I don't have to go into things are out-of-genre as Unreal or Quake. Even WoW has PvP... What did they call them... Battlegrounds? Basically, PvP instances that do not start until you have enough people to meet the map's minimum. A lot of them wouldn't even work without other people, as they depend on frags, while some would... But be completely pointless and uninteresting, such as Capture the Flag without anyone on the other team.

Originally Posted by EnD_Reitanna

OK, what i see from thread is this. You guys don't need Ios for pve. I totally agree. Now come to point who would need them? PvPers for most part just because devs fail at balancing pvp in this game but i am not gonna argue about this thema. Fact is with SOed toon you won't come far in pvp enviroment. Now here is the problem, since IOs are rare and amount of pvpers is actually also small one could think, that there would be enough IOs for so lil pvpers. Guess what? Wrong. In reality there are a bunch of RPers playing tanks with shields or catgirls w/e who purple out their toons even if they don't need it. If it would work after your logic they would have to srip their toons now. I wonder who from them would.
I remember times when only pvpers for most part knew how to utilize IOs and actully those weren't so high even and you could actually buy some of them if you had money. Now every catgirl wants to have softcap in pve and even if you have money you simply can't buy it because there is NONE for sale.
You guys also missing the point that there about 1% of all player base are pvpers. Multiply it with chance to get pvp IO (what surely will give you very evry low number) and then take in consideration that half of player base wants those IOs.

And mac, idk about lazy or not but honestly i don't feel like spending 80% of my play time making money like i did this whole year again. And i am sorry i just refuse to buy gold from koreans for dead game, i know many buy it, you know it is not allowed and can get you banned, regardless you still do it and break market prices even more. Surely it is my personal opinion but 2 bill for 1 IO is just wrong. And it wouldn't happen if ppl didn't go to <insert korean page here> and buy bill for 15 bucks.



Wrong, if i get pvp IO that is not for sale but people need it i can put it for any price and people will buy. Because there is NO SUPPLY.

I can see why most people are complaining on this thread, just because as i would guess most of you guys either farm pvp IOs (lol at increased pvp numbers) or play market, it is just suggestion post, no need to get so offensive and insult poster. And i am still the opinion drop rate from pvp IOs should be increased (or at least let us roll it with rep) due the fact that there are not so many pvpers in this game really.

Originally Posted by Dispari

Oh yeah, I forgot that part was required to complete it and retrieve the temp power. I hacked the game though and got all my Shivans without fighting anybody though.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

The lowest common denominator would be the cheapest card that nevertheless had every single feature or capability of all video cards. The greatest common factor video card would be the best card that had nothing but the features everyone else had. You target the greatest common factor, not the lowest common denominator.


Sorry, pet peeve. Carry on. Gravity, light, swirl thingy.

Originally Posted by Dispari

Content that just happens to occur in a zone where PvP CAN happen doesn't make that content PvP. To be PvP content, you'd have to actually engage in PvP. Something can't be "player versus player content" if the player versus player part isn't part of the content. 100% of the mission to get a Shivan involves talking to NPCs, fighting NPCs, and interacting with objects. At no point do you have to fight players.

Just because you CAN go to RWZ at level 5 and do a mothership raid doesn't make it level 5 content. Just because you CAN do the invention introduction while on a team of 8 doesn't make it teaming content. And just because you CAN run into a player that wants to kill you while you collect a Shivan Shard doesn't make it PvP content. It's PvE content that happens to be located in a PvP zone where PvP CAN happen.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate

Just like the ripple effect on some fire shields/water does not work on all card ;P.
Add motion blur plox.

Originally Posted by Eva Destruction

It's PvE content put into a PvP zone in an attempt to ATTRACT people into PvP. The only part of it that could be considered coercion are the badges or plaques required for the villain accolades, when heroes do not have these requirements. (Yeah blah blah blah, I know full well how easy they are to get, I object to the requirement on principle.)

You played without Shivans and Nukes before the PvP zones were introduced, you can play without them still.

Originally Posted by Obscure Blade

No, it's PvE content put into a PvP zone in an attempt to more-or-less coerce people into PvP. Yet another reason why I don't like PvP in this game.

Originally Posted by Spectreblade

Personally, I've visited the zones before to do some PvP'ing when they first came out, but I don't usually go into them these days. I like the concept of PvP, but just got fed up with the attitudes many zone PvP'ers have, so most of my PvP'ing is now in the arena, and I don't even do that very often anymore.

Now, when I was in the PvP zones, my attitude was that I didn't have a problem with people being in the zone who aren't interested in PvP. But I would still attack them on sight regardless of their reasons for being there, and I would expect them to defend themselves, even if that defense is to flee. After all, the rewards there are balanced around that fact you must risk being attacked by other players to get them.

The PvP'ers are well within their rights to attack anyone who ventures into their territory, but by the same token, those not interested are within their rights to choose "Flight" instead of "Fight" as their response. I'd consider it a victory to send someone fleeing to their side's base, and as others have pointed out, they'd consider it a victory to make it back there in one piece. It's only if they choose "Whine" as their defense tactic that it becomes a problem, since they knew the risks when they came in.

Originally Posted by Eva Destruction

Is this some kind of double entendre a la "getsome"?

Originally Posted by Dispari

So... you're saying Batman, Superman, Green Arrow, or Booster Gold would watch a lady getting mugged and say "Meh, he's not attacking ME!"

Originally Posted by Dispari

Including every time your level 3 visits Steel, right?

Do you also sidetrack to attack every single badguy mugging an NPC nearby?

Originally Posted by Eva Destruction

Bring it!