Krank

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Ah the thing is...this world has it's own references. Yes you can slip in movie references those are fine. The game has a history all unto it's own completely seperate from 'our' world. There's an official timeline somewhere on the main site (would post a linky but not sure where to find it) which fills in a lot of story. Everything pre-1900's is pretty much the same though. Check out Paragon Wiki for background details to quite a few of the enemy groups (Paragon Wiki>table of contents>enemies and then choose a group).

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I've looked at them, and at a bunch of other stuff as well. The thing is, most of the stuff I've managed to dig up is directly supervillain/hero- related. What I'd need is other stuff - like I said, movies, music, politics, that sort of thing. Or are superheroes always politically correct in this world? Is there no room for political dissent, for radical thought, for non-conformist views?

Is EVERYTHING in this world superhero-related?

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Warning: What follows is a personal view, please do not take it as criticism or having a go at you personally.


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As a person who often try to question the status quo and the time-tested truths, I'm kind of an expert at not taking critizism personally =)

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You have to understand this world isn't ours but with superheroes and supervillains, it's a completely different dimension if you will with it's own timeline, brands etc. (for example heroes often use up-and-away Cola or my villain does his weekly shopping at Big Al's supermart both of which exist ingame).


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Agreed. But did you know Big Al's use sweat-shops, or that Cola actually put addictive substances in their soft drinks?

Corporativism kind of creates these kinds of dark situations. I'd have a very hard time swallowing a world in which capitalism is completely unproblematic.

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There is superhero merchandise however, it's been made note that there are action figures of the surviving 8 and others, dvd's such as 'greatest battles of the statesman' i can assume would exist, Halloween costume parts of Statesman, Lord Recluse, Back Alley Brawler and even a Hamidon costume are all ingame. I can easily imagine there's a Hero Corp cartoon on TV as well.

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Great. I'll change the Superman reference right away (though I still like the original title's eyecatchiness)...

(and there's a new blogrant there now as well - see if you can spot any "wrong" references I might've missed. We still got a Gill Scott-Heron, right?)

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politics: it's pretty iffy, i don't think Bush is President in CoX world.

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OK, so no mention of Bush by name. Do we have a president? Are there still CIA? Do the US still intervene in the affairs of others? Is there still a "Guantanamo Bay"?

Or is it completely impossible to actually have a conversation, in-game, about politics? Is it impossible to have a politically active superhero?

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It's hard to judge what is and what isn't going over the boundry of what would be in the game. Do what you feel like what i've said above is just a personal view on things, others will have vastly differing views, that's the beauty of life.

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Yup. The problem becomes interaction. I can believe the world is flat, but as soon as I'm gonna discuss geography with someone who doesn't, there will be friction.


My goal here is to have a superhero (or team) that has a more "dark" view of things (society and its politics and structure). Given that the Avengers and Punisher can exist in the same universe, why can't the Freedom Phalanx and A-bomination?

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I think there's a fair amount of difference between the TLF and the LF. From what i see, the LF is merely against government, where as the TLF is against... everyone, basically.

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((Correct. But the LF is not only against "government", but rather it adopts the anarchist ethic that hierarchal systems are harmful in themselves - "communication is only possible between equals", to quote from my favourite novel, the Illuminatus! trilogy.

And yes, this creates kind of a problem since every supergroups *has* to have a leader, but on the other hand - there are no problems with temporary, informal leaders who rules simply for as long as others agree to follow him, from their own free will, without coercion. ANd leadership can be rotated, I think.))

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The LF are probably a lot more moderate, looking for reform rather than hostile takeover.

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((Not all of us - however, as the LF keeps a pretty small "common ground" in order to open up for as many brands of anarchists as possible, it's certainly possible that some (or many) of our members have different agendas.

A-bom, for instance, wants to do away with all leaders - he's just beginning with the most corrupt ones, working his way up. The bigger problems first, so to speak.))

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((I doubt that Superman exist as a comic in CoX (because of the trademark laws) and personally I doubt that there's even comicbooks about superheroes since they figure frequently in the news and tabloids (much as our celebrities. I mean... how cool would it be to subscribe to the comics "Steven Gerrard" or "Keanu Reeves" for example.)

The comicbook The Watchmen show this pretty neat I think. In there, supers are present so the comics (or at least the comic that's part of the story) are about pirates.


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((I know... Watchmen is kinda awesome, yeah. However, other comic books about "supers" have had superhero comicbooks in them, so I see no real reason why not... It's like saying there should be no comic books about GI joe in the real world, because there are actual soldiers and ninjas etc... =) ))

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Now I'm not trying to "god-mod" you into anything. If you think that a Superman comic is needed in your playing experience, then by all means! I wont stop you!


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((Not needed, but helpful. Or at least some kind of fictional archetypal hero - if there are "Statesman" comicbooks in the CoX world, they would do almost as nicely. The point A-bom is trying to make is that things aren't nearly as "neat" in the "real world" as they are in the mindsets of people like Statesman etc. It's an ugly world, that sort of thing. It's still possible to have both the "four-color" black-and-white superheroics in the same world - I mean, Marvel has room for both gritty stuff like Wolverine or Punisher (blood, gore, and sometimes political incorrectness) and four-color heroics of people like the Avengers. Same world, seen through the eyes of different people.

if all "real-world" references are removed - well, then it becomes almost impossible to actually discuss stuff in-game. Seen the latest Bruce Willis? Sorry, no Bruce Willis in CoX. Do you like President Bush? Sorry, no such animal. The game becomes, empty, flat, two-dimensional - as all forms of actual communication or discussion becomes impossible. Conversations descend into platitudes and politically correct "weathertalk". I find a world where one can at least make references to pop culture - and history - much more satisfying...))

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But if you interact with my characters and bring up said hero, they wouldn't know who you talked about.))

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((Probably wouldn't. A-boms rants in-game seldom mentuion superheroes by name, but might refer to them as "silly people running around fighting two-dimensional villains in trashy comic books" or something similar...

Until canon in the matter is resolved - not the "superman" issue but the "comic books in CoX" issue - I'm going to assume they exist. I see no indication that they don't. Watchmen may be a great comic, but it's grittier, nastier, and darker than CoH and the explicit lack of superhero comic books is a part of that "realism".))

//Krank, writing enormous posts

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Still no Superman in CoX universe though. ))

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((Not even in comic books?

Well, I might change it to Statesman, but i'd prefer someone who's fictional character in CoX))


((And why is this damn box so small?))

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((TLF are villains and this new one is a hero (?) group.))

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((Exactly. The Terra Liberation front and the Liberation Front are two different groups - one is CoV, the other CoH. Personally, I'd like to think of them as "the People's Front of Judea" and "the Judean People's Front", respectively...))

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Aaah, didn't notice that. I've always played it that Superman is a comic book character, just like here. :P

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((That was exactly my point, yes. Superman - not as a character in COX, but as a comic book character. Thought I was obvious enough but so it goes...))

Kind of sketchy at the moment, but the Liberation Front now has a website.

Expect more to come.

http://www.omegarpg.dyndns.org/liberation

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I simply hold belief in the fact that we must destroy and render all that stands before us, before we can successfully attempt to rebuild society. Giving it a fresh slate as it were.

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This I can agree with; however, one must always be certain that one's actions serve a constructive purpose as related to that lofty goal and not merely random destruction.

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((As for Anarchist's being good, I personally think they're the good guys IRL, fighting the man and the machine, for a fairer world. When you put them in the context of the City of Heroes game world however, I think they're on the Villains side, especially if they deal with people in "The Messiest Way Possible", they're bad guys, cos they could go after any of the Citizens in the city who aren't breaking laws, which makes them bad guys and targets for any Heroes who may oppose them. Simply because the game world is White and Black, Heroes and Villains, Right and Wrong.))

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((Actually, as several comic authors have proven, a superhero world doesn't need to be black and white... Look at Grant Morrison - or for that matter, just look at the original Punisher comics. That's the way I see this, as well: The world in itself doesn't neccessarily have a black/white metaphysics - it's just that everyone has agreed upon such a view of the world...

And "breaking laws"... There are LOTS of ways to break laws and still be a good person, and LOTS of ways to not break them and still be a villain. What is Magneto compared to the G8 people, Marlboro, or all those companies who exploid third-world countries, using sweat-shops, etc? Why doesn't Superman and the others deal with the people who actually ARE destroying the planet, enslaving the people, etc?

Well... As far as the Freedom Phalanx etc know, I'm playing by the book. They Don't Need To Know. =) Most of the "extralegal operations" A-bom is involved in, for instance, involves travelling to other continents and blowing up sweatshops etc - not that anyone knows for certain that A-bom's behind these operations, but... =)

I guess A-bom, for instance, is mostly like Punisher. Sure, he teams up with others to defeat certain common foes - and sure, sometimes he helps the police etc. But, mostly he just does his own thing. Why Punisher isn't behind bars yet is anyone's guess...))

Description from in-game form:

"Too long have the people suffered under the oppression of the military-industrial complex. Too long have the masses starved while those in power gorge themselves on food which they have stolen from us! The Liberation front brings Freedom, TRUE freedom - freedom from the capitalist scumf*cks, free from their oppressive laws. Only in true anarchy can we ever know freedom"

And some background of A-bomination (also the in-game form):

"Created by Dr. Joshua Adams in the early eighties, A-bom was the wonderchild of the secret project codenamed MED-50. When the project was shut down by an unknown group of superhumans, A-bom escaped.

he has since travelled the underbelly of the human condition, eventually adopting a revolutionary anarchistic view of life and society. He styles himself a defender and protector of the lower classes and the innocent. Favourite targets includemultinational corporate bosses, their lackeys, and marketing people - all of whom are hunted down and terminated in messiest manner possible.

Some say A-bom is insane, some say he's a hero - largely depending on political viewpoint. Often portrayed negatively in 'corporate-owned media', and idolized amongst other anarchists, he really couldn't care less"

((I could have written much more, but there wasn't room...))

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The Inevitable Revolution!

The Terra Liberation Front stands beside you, enlightened brother. Your allies will be few and far between, only those like us who see the world as it is meant to be will rally to the cause for now. In time, of course, there will be little choice but Chaos and Disorder as Government loses it's grip and the people rise up to strike down the ageing monster!

The new world order is coming, this is proof. Our paths will meet.

Stay vigilant,
The Hatesman,
TLF Chief Architect


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I am exalted to hear that we are not alone in our struggle. It was inevitable that some of us would be perceieved as "Villains" in the old tradition of black/white thinking. Hagbard Celine once described us as travelling in the third dimension in a world in which most only see two dimensions - I am sure you are aware of the concept of "flatland", as it were.

However, Chaos is not an end in itself - and propagating that Chaos is the same as Anarchy, though understandable given the constrints put on those ideas and ideals by language itself, is counter-productive. The two are not the same, as I am sure you agree.

Whatever our petty differences in ideology or philosophy are, I am sure we can overcome them. The New World Disorder will come to pass, and soon!

Remember: The only true power any man has is to say, to quote Celine, "Non serviam" - I Will Not Serve - To say "No", and take the consequences.

If the Individual, or the Group, are ever to reach their ultimate potential, we must work togeather - unite - against the oppression of the Kapital as well as the oppression of the idea of Government.






((A Hero/Villain alliance sounds neat - You think I should change the name of the Front, or is it OK? As I said, I don't wanna step on any toes here. I'm the "nrew guy" on the boards and in the community, so I'm very open to suggestions etc.

Of course anarchists can percieve themselves as a constructive/dcreative force - in fact, most of them/us do. We/them simply believe that government and hierarchal structures are _destructive_ rather than _creative_... I'd be happy to have a debate on the morals and philosophy of anarchist some time, but perhaps not in this thread. Let's just say there's plenty room for anarchists being heroes...

The problem of RP'ing that you mention can be explained by using out-of-world stories. Things can perhaps not be played out, but in fiction - anything's possible.

In regards to groups who might agree with the idea of "chaos" - well, they're generally destructive, giving anarchy a "bad name" (or at least, that's why A-bomination combats them). His favourite enemies are, of course, the Council...

Any sufficiently narrow political ideology can explain almost any action or opinion... =)

In any case, A-bomination will continue his Punisher-like struggle against... well, against almost everyone... And if the Liberation Front (or whatever its final name might be) takes off, working togeather would be a very interesting idea.

For the future! Togeather!))

((I probably should have mentioned: This is not primarily a supervillain team. CoH, not CoV. That doesn't mean there can't be CoV's who arent' nice anarchists, of course))

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This sounds very.... familiar....

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It does?
Please, explain. I am pretty new to these boards, despite being a common citizen of the City for more than two years now...

Global Name: A-bomination
Server: Union.
City of Heroes
RP Characters:
A-bomination
Type of RP: All kinds - more or less all the time.
Can be contacted: PM, mail, etc
Times on: Varies
Timezone: Swedish (GMC+1)

Group Name: Liberation Front

Server/Game: Union/CoH

Theme: Anarchists

Webpage: None

Contacts: A-bomination (me)

Usual Activities: None yet; newly started. Depends entirely on the voluntary participation of members.

Background & Structure: Started by A-bomination in 2004, not recruiting until recently. Was started because the percieved lack of any truly Freedom-encouraging group. Has a strong political agenda, percieving the events of recent years as a perfect time to propagate the ideas of Social Evolution, Personal enlightenment and the true revolution. Has no actual structure, not any formal leadership.


Admission Notes/Requirements: The only requirement is that member characters are at least somewhat drawn to the anarchistic ideology.

This is A-bomination speaking.

They say every hero needs a villain.
I say every government needs opposition.
The Pope is the chief cause of protestantism, and governments are the chief cause of anarchism.

For several years now, I have roamed the City, as it is. Some say the city has fallen to Anarchy. I say this is not anarchy - this is merely Chaos. There are many elements here who have not yet understood the possibilities of recent events. There are many who still cling to old-fashioned notions of "government" or "order". They trust the police to handle their problems, the military, or so-called "super-heroes".

I am not a superhero. Superheroes are silly people in capes and spandex, populating comic-books created to make people believe in the supewriority of a few select "übermenschen". Those who call themselves superheroes propagate the myth that every problem should be solved by Someone Else. There is no glory down that road. If the People are ever to kinow true Freedom, they must be taught how to solve their own problems. In the meantime, those of us who wish to see a better world need to band togeather, to Unite. Not in the communist or socialist sense, for the absolut reign of the commune is just as bad as the absolute reign of the individual. There is no government anywhere. Government is a dream in the minds of the governors.

Some call me a terrorist, for blowing up the offices of several multinational corporations. Some call me a devil, for killing several heads of churches who endlessly try to force their own religion down people's throats using brainwave manipulation. Some call me a hero, for freeing the minds and bodies of hundreds of wage-slaves. Some call me a revolutionary, because I wish to liberate the people from all forms of hierarchies of power.

In truth, I am all of these - and none. I am not important. What is important, is that mankinds needs to move forward, into a new Age of Enlightenment and Freedom.

I am looking for those of you who share my ideals, or at least sympathise. One man, one machine, is not enough. We need to Unite. The Liberation Front needs you. We are open for applications, which may be posted here - if the Powers that Be don't erase this message first.


A-bomination


So, you want a revolution?



[OOC: in plain terms - are there any anarchist roleplayers out there interested in an Anarchist team?]