Kossy

Personally, I don't see why this is such a pissing contest over who got the damn thing dead first. If we really wanted to, the beta raiders could spam the screenshots all over the board in some sort of ejaculatory blaze of glory, saying "OMG WE DID IT !ST WERE THE GREETIST"

Aside from the feeling cheated, it'd be nice if people took your attitude toward this; that there is still a lot to uncover, and that this strat is only one way of getting it done. I think I speak on behalf of the beta community when we say we want peple to make this better. We want people to find a more efficient, effective way for people to get this encounter done. However, we don't want the extremes of a)people whining about the fact that we had access first (which is disingenuous, since peopel could just as easily whine about how peope had access to inventions and the rudimentary economy first) or b)people acting like they don't know anything and failing to build upon that which we have worked hard on.

To characterize it precisely, we don't want a ticker-tape parade, but it'd be nice if people wouldn't also dismiss what we have come up with at the time as inherently flawed and thus, valueless.

Marut said it best to me: He wanted something available to people right out of the box so that they could, if they wanted to, run it that way to get an idea of how it works. If people get stuck before they clear mitos, or they have no chance of figuring out how they work, then we're back reinventing wheels.

Further, deigning this as "brute force" by virtue of the fact that it isn't what the devs had in mind is a littl disingenuous to the strat's design. The Mk II strat is designed precisely to maximize melee team safety with the only means available to us right now. If we wanted it to be brute force, we'd call for all 20 or so Melee capable toons to pop an EoE and rush yellows. If you think EoE farming is bad with Mk II, try it without team TP.

Lastly, this encounter is not supposed to be easy. We're not supposed to walk in, do some mindless crap, then walk out recipe/HO in hand. Maybe it's not suppsoed to be this hard, but it's stuill supposed to make our lives difficult. If anything, all this talk is reminiscent of the Regen nerf whining. Don't cry when the bottle is taken away because, y'all are big kids now. Old hami is a luxury the devs don't want us to have anymore.

Edit: Major typo. Freudian indeed.

Tch. It's not the same if you don't put it in ALL CAPS

We'd better. Otherwise "Oil Slick, WTH" will cease to be a punchline.

I wish peopel would understand this this isn't an end-all strategy. There's a HUEG amount of room to iron out details, and still then a potentially HUEG amount of room to change things up.

Stop acting like our runs were the real deal. Don't criticize the sculpture before we're even done chipping out the head.

I need a general consensus for the major testers on beta. Mar has already expressed his opinion.

I removed the link to his strat in the beta forums for two reasons

1)I wasn't sure poeple had access to it
2)I wasn't sure what the consensus was among the most prominent in the beta raid community.

I would rather have the strat up, and linked to here. It provides a point of progress, and prevents people from reinventing the wheels we took so much time and effort to carve. Yes, it potentially predisposes people toward a given approach, but it is not dogma. We are not bound to it any more than we are bound to compelting the Katie Hannon TF by normal means or by flying her above ambushes.

However, the choice is only, in part, mine, The only people I want to hear from about this are Mar, LL, Surraht, ZM, and anyone else of note that i left out in the beta discussion threads.

Yes, beta testers have heroside. Castle even said so, so it must be true.

Oh yeah, I'll definitely add that to *thwack*

*grunt*

Ooh. I forgot about that! Adding to above.

Open testing brings with it a fresh playerbase, brimming with ideas and "out of the box" opining, pontificating, and any slew of multisylabbic smart sounding wordamabobs.

However, it also increases the noise to signal ratio substantially.

The purpose of this post is to consolidate and reiterate key facts discovered about Hamidon during the Closed Beta test, without disclosing details of strategy. This allows the expanded base to think and ponder without having to ask questions already answered by exhaustive, debt-aggregating suicide testing.

This post contains no information on, or insights into strategy or execution logistics. Please refer to Marut's MkII Strategy for information on our current availalbe strategy heroside and Silverspar's Overview for a more Villain-focused evaluation.

For information on the new Villain zone, "The Abyss," please refer to Human Being's Quick guide to moving around the Abyss.

Overview

A basic rundown of the major changes to the overall encounter is:
<ul type="square">[*]Zone limit has been changed to 50 toons.[*]New inspirations, called Essence of Earth (EoE) have been added that protect only against electrolytic damage, a special type only done by Blue and Yellow Mitos, and Hamidon itself.[*]There are only 18 mitos, 6 each of green, blue, and yellow, arranged in a radially symmetrical apttern about the nucleus (3 hexagons) with the yellows on the outside, blues int he middle, and greens closest to hamidon.[*]Mitos now deal AOE damage as follows, and hamidon has an additional attack. Further, each mito is susceptible to a specific type of attack:

Yellows: Massive Electrolytic AoE damage and Moderate Electrolytic DoT AoE Damage, High Mag stun, High Mag knockback (Both are greater than anti-mez shields such as Practiced Brawler or Unyielding), range 600 feet. Susceptible to: Melee attacks
Blues: Moderate Electrolytic DoT Damage, -Recovery, +Slow, -End(?), Fear, range 150 feet. Susceptible to: Ranged attacks
Greens: Moderate DoT Toxic damage, -Regen, -Heal, range 150 feet. Susceptible to:Holds. After defense drops, ranged.
Hamidon: Massive AoE Electrolyic Damage, High Mag stun, High mag knockback. Has an additional attack that does Massive ST Electrolytic Damage, High Mag Stun, High Mag Knockback. (Again similar to yellows. Overpowers standard anti-mez shields) Range on both: 600 feet
[*]Mito HP has been reduced dramatically, to about 7.5K each.[*]Hamidon can now attack through Phase shift and other self: +intangibility or invincibility powers (i.e. Hibernate, RotP.) This allows him to demolish Phantom Army Decoys, thus limiting their effectiveness (Thanks Rianeva!)[*]Hamidon's Mez protection Mag is now substantially higher than previous incarnations. Mez no longer prevents mito spawns, nor does it reduce his resistances or regen rate.[*] Hamidon no longer spawns automatically in-zone. In order to make him spawn, the raid teams must defeat about 10-20 of the DE monsters that roam the zone. When this occurs, Hami spawns in its designated location, while the monsters flee to several doors around the map, and remain absent until Hamidon is defeated.[*] Hamidon's Yellow Dawn has been replaced by a "bloom" of 6 of each mito. This occurs when he reaches 75%, 50%, and 25% of his total HP, and ONLY ONCE at each threshold. This spawn is unaffected by multiple factors including:

Mez: According to iakona (I think), the bloom acts as an independently triggered click power, much like the Terra Volta reactor core spawn, or AV spawns.
Remaining mitos: Back Alley Brawler has been our patron god of raiding; In one of the test raids, he left one blue mito to illustrate what happens when hami blooms with remnant mitos. Remnant mitos will not prevent blooms, nor will bloom Mitos "overwrite" old mitos. If 3 greens and a yellow are leftover, the next bloom will still add 6 of each mito. That means there will be 9 greens, 6 blues, and 7 yellows. (Scary.)[/list]
EOEs
Essences of Earth are inspirations dropped by the DE monsters that roam the Abyss, Hive, Peregrine Island, and potentially Grandville. There is a guaranteed drop of 1 EoE per DE monster, randomly given to any member of a team that earned credit in defeating it. This drop is singular, no more, no less. No matter how many teams attack the monster, no matter how many members, the monster will drop only one, on a random toon that participated in tis defeat. Since DE monsters have a guaranteed drop of one non-EoE inspiration in Every participant's tray, to harvest EoEs, each member must have two inspiration slots open.

EoEs themselves are 60 second duration inspirations that protect (100% resistance) against "electrolytic" damage, that is, the damage done by Blue Mitos, Yellow Mitos, and the Hamidon Nucleus. They do NOT protect from their secondary effects, including the high mag stun and high Mag knockback. They do NOT grant special attack properties, nor do they add any special damage to attacks. They only grant full damage resistance against Electrolytic damage.

Frequently asked questions and suggested ideas.

These questions/suggestions are some commonly asked, and have been commonly suggested, ad nauseum. Most of them have been dismissed or refuted by virtue of:
<ul type="square">[*]Overly Complex/Unparsimonious: The plan or idea is too complicated or requires too many gimmicks to be practical.[*]Not in line with intent of "AT balance": The devs specifically tailored this encounter ot work such that any AT can be a contributor. Deliberately requiring obscure powers, powersets, or a massive AT shift, does not fall in line with a plausible strategy, much less a practical one.[*]'Cuz Back alley Brawler said so: As stated previously, BaB has been our patron god when it comes to helping us through the encounter. However directly or indirectly, he's really cleared up some of the reasoning behind the design, and has help us draw important conclusions about the encounter. [/list]
1.I've got an idea! What if...?

Wait. Stop right there. I'm not one to curtail intelligent discourse, but please consider the above rubric before you post an idea. Ideas are great, but they just provoke unproductive, and even destructive discourse if they're too ridiculous. Arguments and flaming ensues, and no one gets anywhere, left with a bitter taste in their mouths. Think it through, try to back it up first, and most importantly, check recent evidence/numbercrunching first. Wacky=/=Ingenuity.

2.What if we confuse Hamidon/mitos?

The problem with focusing on one or two powers is precisely that. It seems highly unlikely and impractical that we would need, let alone have, the massive mag to overcome their protections. Back Alley Brawler demonstrated what happens when a mito becomes confused, with much hilarity, but little in the way of effectiveness. Further, he implied that confusion is not a viable strategy, outright saying "This is not a hint" when he used his dev permissions to confuse the mito.

3.What if there's a secret way to prevent blooms/maybe there's a way to "break hami's resistances"

BaB specifically said that the encounter is to be time-regulated by use of blooms. Logically this extends to other properties of hamidon, including damage resists and mito synergy. Each of these aspects is specifically designed to keep the encounter difficult and maintian its time investment. If there were a way to shortcut straight to hami without EoEs and without mito blooms, then there would be no challenge or appropriate preparation needed. This would fly in the face of devs' intentions and would likely result in a fix if it proved to make the encounter too expedient. At this point, we'd all glare at you menacingly for ruining a good thing.

4.What about nukes/shivans?

The jury's still out on nukes, but we're trying to avoid them. They might be good to take out one or two mitos, but that depends heavily on the "type" of damage they are counted as. Shivans are too unpredictable and too impractical to use in mito clearing. Short of Hami pounding, nukes and shivans do little. Doing more damage to hami, which, at 50 people, with guaranteed blooms, is rather meaningless.

5.Geez, if mitos are that strong, tohit debuffs, defense and resists are mostly meaningless; why bother with sets like FF, Sonic resonance, etc.?

You're not thinking fourth dimensionally! In fact, FF, Dark and sonic have a lot to offer the raid execution. The key is to look at the secondary effects of some of their powers, and to draw focus away from that which are some sets' obvious strengths.

Dark, for example offers 8.6 Mag Fear protection. No, it's not enough to save squishies on its own, but it certainly helps during blue removal. Two dark defenders can protect the entire ranged contingent from the fear effect of the blues.

Force field offers three useful powers in the form of their bubbles' secondary effects; the S/L bubble offers tox resists, while the E/NE/F/C bubble offers End drain protection. Dispersion bubble offers and additional 8.6 mag protection against stuns and holds (and immobilizes, but that's less relevant).

Sonic is probably the most valuable of these three sets. Not only does it provide mez protect and tox resists via dispersion and its S/L bubble, but it also has clarity, a clone of CM that is invaluable for the current Yellow mito strat.

Conclusion
We're looking forward to hearing many good ideas, and several not so good ones to help us fine tune the existing strategy. There's still a lot of details to iron out, but we're working toward a clean, foolproof strategy.

And remember, victory is only gained if you RUN FASTER, and use... OIL SLICK, WTH?

Kossy's brief guide to using the Guide to Guides

What's this Guide to guides?
It's a listing of all the notable and available guides ont he guides forum. It is organized (by Zombie Man's auspices) by category and contains any threads with player-documented information relevant to those topics

Where is it?
Here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...=0#Post7529600
Or check near the top fo the first page of the guides forum.

Don't ask questions about powers or powersets on the guides forum, that's not its purpose. Instead, please visit the Guide to Guides thread to see if a guide is relevant to the powerset(s)/AT(s)/binds/etc. you are looking for

I don't see the powerset combination/bind/FAQ I'm looking for! You're full of lies!

Patience. The information is player-generated. Not everything is available becuase it only really becomes available if we make it in the first place. If you can't find exactly what you need, try:
<ul type="square"> [*] Looking for info on single powersets, then drawing your own conclusions[*]Looking for info in other ATs, then drawing your own conclusions[*]Asking in Player Questions[*]Asking in respective AT threads[*]Asking in your server's thread[/list]
Mileage varies by luck and the attitude of others, but the best way to approach people is generally politely and with a forgiving attitude. No shoulder chips, no pride or anything. If you don't get an answer, you don't. Raise your nose high and indignantly, knowing you took the high road.

Also, be patient. Not everyone in CoH is a Nuclear Powered Answer Monkey(TM). If you ask a question at 2PM, don't expect answers within the hour. People work, people sleep. People browse at work, but can't answer becuase giving advice takes a lot of info on-hand and a lot of typing/copypasting. Wait a day or so.

Yeah yeah, patience, whatever, this is too long, conclude now! And do it with an analogy!
The Guide to Guides is a lot like delicious soft tofu. It's full of nutrition, floats in a vat of water, and goes great with a little bit of ginger-infused sugar syrup. I hope this minifaq has been useful. Thank you.

[ QUOTE ]
Clarity: A very useful technique that gives an ally resistance to: Disorients, Holds, Immobilizes, Sleeps, Confuses and Fear. Also increases perception by 86.5%. Sounds pretty useful in the upper levels. In pvp it may also have its marits. I'd take it. But because you already have 2 "Bubbles" to put on your allies only use this skill on the brutes and the MM's biggest pet. It lasts 90 seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagreed. Sonic "bubble" duration is abotu 4 minutes. There's absolutely no reason not to use clarity on everyone in-team if possible. Most of the time, (i.e. PvE) this is a situational use power, but in PvP, every single aspect of this power is used; from the +percep to the +protect(confusion) every AT has soemthing substantial to gain from ahving this power on them.

Further, brutes are likely to need this power the least because they typically have mez protects of their own. While the +percep is valuable, having a full set of unmezzable (mostly) corrs and doms is invaluable in hard fights.

Finally, There is no power that is directly comparable to clarity in other powersets. Thermal (corr), poison(MM), and kinetics(corr) have a mez protect, but it protects against only some of the same mezzes, noticeably leaving out sleep, confusion and fear. A sonic villainside without clarity is like an emp without clear mind. Still effective, but simultaneously sorely lacking.

You make a good point. I should have thought of it in the context of the set. Unlike gravioty, which has little soft control, Plant has two alternatives, one of which is noticeably potent (SoC, as you mentioned).

Still I'm still a fan of aoe holds in PvE, despite their downgrading.

I'm slightly confused at your disdain for Vines. I've never played plant/*, but it seems like a standard Targeted AOE Hold (a la Grav Distortion field.) Could you explain?

Clarity=/=Stimulant

Stimulant
Duration: 45
Protects: Sleep, hold, immob, confuse, fear, stun) 7.2 mag
Resistance?(Mez Duration reduction): None
Interruptible?: Yes

Clarity
Duration: 90 seconds
Protects: Sleep, hold, immob, confuse, fear, stun. Mag 10.4
Resistance?(Mez Duration reduction): 173% Sleep
Interruptible?:No

The clear (lawl, pun) differences are in the level, duration, and reliability of execution. Comparing Clarity to stimulant is like comparing a souffle to a donut. They're both pastry, but one's clearly (Lawl, pun) better.

No. PB only affects powers that you activate, not powers that are used on you.

No, PB doesn't affect damage or damage buffs.

Well written! I always wondered what PB did and did not boost, and a definitive guide is an excellent resource for its potential users.

One thing to emphasize under Vanguard (and I know you mentioned, it, but it's a key difference) is that it's PB lite. As you said, it enhances mez, but not repel, end drain, tohit and defense buffs, tohit and defense debuffs, heals, speed buffs or slows, as per your guide and what little I can read and write whil at work. (It took me 5 mintues to write this)

Yes, PFF is affect self only, so you can use self buffs and travel powers.

Yes, you can use pwoers with Repulsion field. It might not be a good idea, depending on how far it knocks mobs back, to use it in tandem with Nova.

I can't give you a good one, but I certainly can give you a bad one:

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Pool Boy
Level: 50
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary: Martial Arts
Secondary: Regeneration
---------------------------------------------
01) --&gt; Thunder Kick==&gt; Empty(1)
01) --&gt; Fast Healing==&gt; Empty(1)
02) --&gt; Storm Kick==&gt; Empty(2)
04) --&gt; Quick Recovery==&gt; Empty(4)
06) --&gt; Hasten==&gt; Empty(6)
08) --&gt; Swift==&gt; Empty(8)
10) --&gt; Boxing==&gt; Empty(10)
12) --&gt; Combat Jumping==&gt; Empty(12)
14) --&gt; Super Speed==&gt; Empty(14)
16) --&gt; Tough==&gt; Empty(16)
18) --&gt; Health==&gt; Empty(18)
20) --&gt; Super Jump==&gt; Empty(20)
22) --&gt; Weave==&gt; Empty(22)
24) --&gt; Flurry==&gt; Empty(24)
26) --&gt; Kick==&gt; Empty(26)
28) --&gt; Acrobatics==&gt; Empty(28)
30) --&gt; Stamina==&gt; Empty(30)
32) --&gt; Jump Kick==&gt; Empty(32)
35) --&gt; Hurdle==&gt; Empty(35)
38) --&gt; Whirlwind==&gt; Empty(38)
41) --&gt; Web Grenade==&gt; Empty(41)
44) --&gt; Caltrops==&gt; Empty(44)
47) --&gt; Shuriken==&gt; Empty(47)
49) --&gt; Exploding Shurken==&gt; Empty(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --&gt; Sprint==&gt; Empty(1)
01) --&gt; Brawl==&gt; Empty(1)
01) --&gt; Critical Hit==&gt; Empty(1)
02) --&gt; Rest==&gt; Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------


Slot liberally with anything, or for that matter not at all

Points of note:

You're talkigna bout a Ill/Kin, not a mind/kin. Huge difference.

Indomitable will is a self click power, not a singlr target other. If you want it to be fully effective as a protection power, it should be slotted with 3 recharge reducers.

EPPs work like every other pool. You do not have to take mental blast to get indomitable will. In fact, it's probably better if you just take indomitable will, then mind over body, then psy tornado, seeing as now you can take those powers earlier, and use the extra slots you get on a power like group fly (if you want to be a PA team buffer).

Edit: Yay! Fixt LAWL.

This is a brilliant and fantastical statistical analysis. Not an end-all (nothing can be) but very, very well compiled and presented.

My question is, knowing that some melee types take Aid self, how does it affect survivability as compared to tough/weave, or other efficiency/survival maxers? Also, how about when comparing a 100% success rate with a 75% successful heal rate using said power? (as aid self is interruptable)

Acro is awesome for kins in PvE, and especially in PvP. Nothing puts a damper on Mega Kin Buffing more than an uppity tank or scrapper who pushes you away from the fun spots.

I ran IR only for a long time and it worked out well, until I went PvPing in Siren's. You definitely need a toggle travel. The 1-3 seconds to get IR activated is sometimes enough for something to kill you, especially if they know where you are already.

Not to be a nitpick, but SB is available for 'fenders at 12, not 10.

Edt: I can't type!

Looks okay. I'd suggest taking the recharges out of Speed boost. If anything, speed boost needs one recharge (even that's pushing it), end reduction, or ranges.

I'd put the slots into your Epic shield, and either change or add the slots such that Amplify gets 3 recharge reducers and the accompanying tohit buffs, if you want them, and that siren's gets at least 1 range increase. To play a solo Kin/Son, it's really vital. To use it effectively teaming, you need to be able to incapacitate stray mobs, or secondary aggro with as little movement from the team/main tank as possible.

Experiment on them yourself!
*points to own guide*

I approximated the damage increase from sonic -res values, as well as the duration before they were available on any hero planner or forum guide.

It's not hard. A calculator and algebra did it for me.

Acc isn't too difficult either, granted it's a little time consuming (compare hits to misses against even cons for a sample of 100 attempts, 50 if you're lazy).

Guides are about substantiating opinion with more than opinion or misinformation. I hear using numbers, fact, or well-established (i.e. large portions of the CoH veteran community) common knowledge, to substantiate opnions or make educated guesses are all the rage these days, but what do i know?

[ QUOTE ]
So in a round about way, this is actualy turning into a guid, it will just need to be compiled and redone once this thread is over.

I can take the nembers that I find here, and actualy come up with a GOOD guide for all to learn.

[/ QUOTE ]

So.. why not do that in the first place? You know, instead of posting assumptions, misinformation, and vocal opinions? :3

Oh, and for your comparison.

A:X power + smite = 45% acc
B: 45 acc = Bad
C: X power sucks

A+B, Therefore C? You're missing the point of why people are giving you a hard time about your rather wild assumption.

Well written, though the Slotting list is a bit of an eyesore imho. Be sure to mention that Lightning Storm has a chance to detoggle with each strike.