Kitsune9tails

Thanks for the info. It sounds like a neat concept, and sounds much less janky than the roll maneuver and such seen in some games.

Does holding down 'block' impact your ability to move and attack?

A corrallary to what Antigonus said is the following:

To person with a PvP mindset, PvP is so much more fun than PvE that it is worth potentially a lot of effort to get in and get good.

A person with a PvE mindset is already having plenty of fun, and the (seemingly mythical) extra fun you get from PvP doesn't seem worth it. Especially to a PvE person who has never been good at PvP or wanted to be good at it: they don't know what they're "missing".

A workable analogy might be the person who likes reading books versus the person who likes camping out. To an outdoorsman, such activities as "hiking into the mountains" "wading through a stream" and such IS the fun.

To the bookworm, that translates to "trudging uphill a long way" and "getting wet and cold and icky" and they'd rather not, thank you.

It's a task getting each to see the other point of view, and a further task to get either to the point where they could compete in their chosen fields fairly, let alone to the point where it would actually be challenging for both.

Well what Blasters 'do' is hit harder at range than anybody else.

From what I can tell this goes back to the old design idea of 'range as a defense'. Most PvE critters do more damage in melee than at range (there are notable exceptions), and a Blaster is supposed to 'kite'. If the critters can't kill you fast enough because you are constantly making them stop running at you to shoot or run around some terrain you put in the way, that's Blasting.

Blaster tools are meant to keep enemies at out of melee: roots and knockback especially.

However, the devs knew that some players would want to play 'against type', so they also gave them some strong melee damage as well. Many players still enjoy playing Blappers. Also, most enemies who can weather a few strong Blaster attacks and close with them then receive an equal or stronger melee attack once they get to the Blaster, and they should be dead by then.

The one thing Blasters are not supposed to have is significant defense, because offense and range and skillful play are supposed to suffice. Also, a Blaster that can reduce incoming damage by 50% or more AND kite was considered to be overpowered.

Of course, this starts to break down in higher levels, when as you noted, you begin to encounter enemies that break the 'rules' under which Blasters are designed to operate solo: enemies that can't be one-shotted but which can mez, enemies that hit harder at range, or enemies that sneak attack YOU.

The fun thing is that I am old enough to remember when Blasters were Range/Melee instead of Range/Support.

Here is what Blasters do: snipe one guy out of a spawn, root his buddy, then finish of the 3rd minion with a couple ranged attacks and a punch. About now the rooted guy is free and charging so blast him, knock him back, finish him off.

No other AT is supposed to play like that, I don't think. The closest parallel would probably be Controllers.

Heh, I look at your example and immediately imagine thousands of players using exclusively the small damage attack that denies any chance to fight back to defeat all comers, then coming onto the boards to complain that the damage is too low and that the foes are too weak because they never fight back.

But yes, as a long term design goal for this game I think it's doable to set (and hopefully announce, so the players can add their own feedback to the intent and execution) a 'standard' beyond '3 even con minions should be a minor challenge' and gradually place sets and critters in proper order around it.

Even more than the players, I wonder to what extent critters have designed around a standard of combat performance spiced with specialties.

First of all, thank you very much for the explanation. It was clear and enlightening.

Hmmm. Would it be viable to start everyone off as 'ranged scrapper with a team buff' and then allow/force various levels of customization/specialization from there?

Maybe according to theme? Fire does 'more damage/elemental damage resistance', Ice does 'move speed debuff/damage deflection', etc?

You could then encourage teaming by building specific, labelled 'team content' that no one can solo, and giving it rewards unavailable to solo content. Conversely, there could be rewards unique to solo missions. Then you have an auction house so everyone can get everything.

How good can ST damage get, though? Isn't there some point when it's just rediculous after slotting and buffing (yeah, yeah I know, Buffer Overrun)?

Should Blasters be able to one shot Snipe even level Bosses? Elite Bosses? AVs? Is 'twice as much as a Scrapper' too much or too little.

One idea I have had for PvP for awhile is similar: "Battlesuits".

Strt with a zone based on a hostile environment, such as a hellish dimension or deep space. Anyone entering the zone without a battlesuit would die (maybe just story fluff, maybe the zone can actually be entered 'naked', exposing the character to constant irresistable DoTs.

There are perhaps 30 different choosable 'battlesuits', each based on a pvp build: 3 Blaster styles, 3 Dom styles, etc.

Choosing a battlesuit changes your entire build while you are in the zone.

This would even double as a tool for people who want to try out a different Archetype but are afraid to sink time into it.

...that's pretty much all there is to it. Of course there would be some story reason to be in the zone, such as a critter base to be raided. You could even have several bases that could be taken and perpetually controlled, for the people that like to take territory from a foe, with appropriate rewards (although some sort of reset button might be needed).

Just a thought.

I very seldom PvP. However, I will gladly test out any changes that are made.

You are paraphrasing Venture. I mean Syndrome, from The Incredibles. A villain so villainous, he not only wanted to destroy his nemesis, but to eradicate the very concept of 'being super'.

Talk about never getting over a rejection.

But I totally agree with your post. Which is not to say you should not strive for 'different yet equal' in an MMO, just don't be surprised when no one but you ever perceives it as that.

It's a viable design goal, just not the most efficient one to reach for.

Samuel Tow:

Let's start with the fact that in this game, the baseline is (or was) that at level 50, 3 level 53 minions should present a challenge to a solo player, regardless of powersets (she should not be able to sleep through the battle).

Furthermore, a solo player should be able to complete 80% or more of their own missions without outside help while set to standard difficulty.

Is this baseline too low, or are you measuring by a different metric, such as xp per hour?

Having all character types equally combat capable in an MMO would be problematic:

- Even if they were, they would not be perceived as being equal. "That guy does 5% more damage than I do under specific circumstances! Nerf him!"

- If they can all solo equally well, then they must also contribute equally well to teams or the team-oriented ones have an unfair advantage.

- With no one 'needed' on a team there are no roles for people to learn, which makes teaming more problematic than it already is for some players.

- With all players eqully combat capable, there is less room for customization. "But I want to put all of my points into doing more damage!" and conversely, "I want to give up combat capability in return for support ability!"

None of this is impossible to overcome, but the question becomes "Why reinvent the wheel? How does overcoming all of these problems in order to do things differently help the game? Is it worth the extra money (playtesting, development) to even try?"

A couple of thoughts:

It always amuses (read: disgusts) me that the people who are out to break the rules expect to be sheltered by the rules. From the people who use the banner of RP to shield their intent to harrass, to criminals who attempt to use the legal limitations placed on officers of the law to shelter their criminal activities.

A corollary of this is that people often take freedom (whether 'of speech' or 'as thou wilt') to effectively mean freedom for me and me only, with everyone else constrained by the rules (unless acting in my benefit). Not always but quite often, they will say or do something intended to offend, then protest the 'freedom' of others to remove them from their presence or otherwise curtail them.

Fox/wolf tails, please. A variety of animal parts. Fingertip claws (somehow). Bestial run/leap, animated tails and hair (Yes, City of Furries, whatever).

In addition, more assymetrical parts (one arm more bulky and muscular than the other), more ugly/horrific parts (bulgy veins, Medusa snakes for hair, holes through the body).

Maybe more adolescent faces and some costumes that 'teenage mutant runaway' look and feel: ripped, burnt, frozen and otherwise powers/battle-damaged jeans, shirts, skirts and jackets.

Perhaps a 'painful morph' costume change?

Hmmm, what would make a good booster power? How about a self-rez on a long timer similar to Mutation that buffs you after you rez? Hee hee, maybe it would even temporarily change your costume to some horrendously mutant form?

Here is how I divide thing, your mileage may vary.

A normal human, by definition, has a Natural Origin.

But a normal human who becomes a superhero usually has a second Origin, the one that is recorded on their heroing license. This second Origin is the Origin of the abilities that enable them to fight crime in spandex when doing so would ordinarily just put the average Joe in the hospital.

Practically by definition, all superheroes can perform on an Olympic level nearly constantly. How?

NATURAL: Your Olympic Plus abilities result from things like training (Batman), superhuman abilities that are natural to your species (Martian Manhunter), or having something follow you around and do things for you (Johnny Thunder).

MAGIC: Your Olympic Plus abilities result from Magic. This can overlap with Natural and other Origins (Doctor Strange's magic results from training), but is more commonly the result of such things as a spiritual inheritance or grant from a nonhuman magical being (Juggernaut), possession of a magical artifact (Doctor Fate), or being a nonhuman being yourself that is specifically magical (Hercules). I divide Magic from Science here purely in the feel and intent of the writing, but a good rule of thumb is that if it blatantly handwaves physics without even attempting scientific technobabble, it's magic. Basically this one is up to the author, for instance Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha uses blatantly technological devices with digital readouts and what not, but they are defined in that universe as magic.

MUTANT: Your Olympic Plus abilities derive from a unique quirk of your genetics (the X-Men). I personally further define this thus: if your abilities are directly derived from the genetics of your parents, you are not technically a mutant (although you may detect as one, see Rachel Summers) but rather Natural (**** Sapiens Superior). Moreover, these abilities must become active 'naturally', through puberty or trauma; being hit with some effect that chemically or genetically (etc) changes you and also brings out your mutant abilities qualifies as Science in my book (the Hulk).

TECHNOLOGY: Your Olympic Plus abilities are actually result of use of a (and here is the important part) unique device that cannot be replicated by normal (21st century earth, preferably real-world) science. Sure, Flight Rings may be common as dirt where you come from, but around here, they are Technology. If, on the other hand, your device is something that anyone (with an unlimited budget and copious amounts of time) could run around with, then that is more Natural. Iron Man is very borderline here, but I count him as Technology because he always has a few technobabble 'black box' secrets to his armor, regardless of the number of knockoff suits that get built.

SCIENCE: To me, this is the catchall category. Nearly anyone who doesn't qualify as one of the others falls here? Splashed by energized chemicals? Bitten by a radioactive or genetically engineered animal? Survived the Big Crunch of a previous universe and the Big Bang of this one? All Science.

A robot granted sentience does not necessarily possess any super human abilities that would make it more suitable to fight crime than your average Olympic athlete. On the other hand, it may have been built with a very powerful motor and an armored shell (Natural), or be built of Adamantium and have a Prometheus generator at it's core (Technology). Even if it can use Magic, are the spells that it knows the things that make it feel capable of fighting crime?

In the end, it all comes down to what you put on your heroing license as the thing that qualifies you to fight crime by being something other than an upstanding citizen that likes spandex.

Imagine: Your character is passing by a dark alley at night, when she hears a scream. Investigating, she finds a hapless citizen being menaced by armed thugs. Seconds later, she has defeated the thugs and rescued the citizen. When the citizen asks, "how did you DO that?" the answer that comes to your character's mind is her Origin.