Kinslayer_

OK, this has gotten out of and hand I realise that I'm possibly one of those who has fanned some of it. I do feel that none of my posts were really flaming or provoking but were actually me pointing out facts as I see them.

They may have been a little blunt but I feel they were no blunter than Dr Deaths comments were in some of my posts about getting a PvP specific VG on Union. So, while I feel that I don't have to apologise, as you should only give what you're happy to receive, I will apologise anyway if my comments have had anything to do with Dr. Death leaving the forums. I'm also more than happy to discuss any of this in game and leave the Union Leaders channel if my views aren't wanted on there.

However, I will also say that I do not think any of the posts I've seen here calling the Violators out are any worse than the posts I've seen from the Violators with their claims of being the best around. Needless to say, no one will dispute they are one of the highest prestige earning VG's on Union and no one will argue with that and Dr. Death does have a lot of lvl 50's.

All of these 'we are uber posts' may be part of some RP but any one could see that the continual claims both on here and in game were going to annoy people. Maybe it was part of a plan to provoke people into challenging the Violators and has backfired. However, there are plenty of other groups on here who are recognised as being good at PvP and people want to fight them as a result of that, not because they go round provoking people

I don't agree with Dr Death leaving the forums over this but I also feel that all of this is a result, not of the Violators being one of the best raid PvP villain groups on Union server and people wanting to knock them because of it(though they are probably the best at the moment from the few on there), but a result of people taking umbrage to the attitudes the Violators have displayed as a whole.

Death, don't leave the boards as losing any of the few experienced PvP players out there's knowledge and views is never going to be a good thing, but, do take a look at your groups general attitudes and here are some examples of what I mean from various Violator posts

[ QUOTE ]
It suprises me that ppl that get so aggitated coz i use the statement uber-VG

[/ QUOTE ]

Why use the statement at all? Saying that you raid regularly, have not actually been beaten yet, have learned things from each of those who have raided you and would like to find more people to raid against would have still shown you as a good raid VG but doesn't have any of the arrogance that has provoked so many people. Reputations are not built by what the group themselves say but by what those who face them say.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm on Union and I'm in the violators SG, the richest in Union and we do kick [censored] raids on Saturday mostly whooping other VG's, we got kick [censored] defences, both turrets and players. We pwn

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, why is there this need to alienate the community against you with such statements. This was made by a member of the Violators and was the entire post, there was nothing quantifying it and, more importantly, it was just dumped in the middle of a thread where it had no relevance. The sole intention of it seemd to be to provoke and annoy people

[ QUOTE ]
my own VG is the strongest PvP-VG on union.(if that comment bugged u, feel free to raid us: sundays 8pm GMT, contact: @.Dr Death)

[/ QUOTE ]

This was again another post thrown completely at random into a thread discussing another matter and just seen as an attempt to hijack the post for self promotion.

There were also several other posts that would have served as better examples but Bridger actually removed them and locked the thread. Death, I don't think you can honestly look at this objectively and say you have no idea why people have a bad opinion of the Violators and want to beat them with the sole intention of shutting them up.

Come back to the forums, contribute to PvP, continue to beat people in raids and let the reputation speak for itself rather than the propoganda and drop the arrogance. PvP should be fun but when people are so intent on provoking others nastiness is always going to creep in.

I've posted this both here and in a PM to you so, even if you're not reading the forums, I hope you're still checking your PM's and I am sorry if anything I've said here has upset you but hope you understand why people have reacted the way they have.

[ QUOTE ]
This is the build I'm aiming for.

I'm only lvl 25 atm so I don't know if this is gonna be the precise slotting. I'm pretty sure about the number of slots in the various powers but dunno how endheavy it will be so maybe some of the end reds will be swapped for something else.

After they raise the lvlcap to 50, I'll hopefully be able to get some more slots into powers such as; Combat Jumping, Aim, Hurdle, Super Jump, Swift and Freeze Ray

(Not sure about the slots in Heat Loss though. I'm assuming it's an autohit power since you can't slot it with accuracies in HeroBuilder but find this very hard to believe...guess it's just one more fault in Herobuilder )

[/ QUOTE ]

He he he cheers Arch but you do know that I'm now going to copy this exactly instead of trying to work it out for myself and blame you if it doesn't work

What do people think of this?

I'm relatively new to PvP zones but have frequented them quite a bit in recent weeks and found them both fun, frustrating and annoying. I guess a lot of it depends on who else is in the zone.

One thing that has been a little annoying for me though is the actual bases in there. I would expect the PvP to take place in the centre of the zone but have found this to rarely be the case. Whenever I've entered the zone, it seems that one side or the other is always camping out at their base.

This means the team who are away from their base are a t a huge disadvantage as travelling to the fighting makes it more difficult to coordinate as people die and arrive at different times.

The team at their base have no such problems as they can just sit near the base and provoke the villains into attacking and getting extra damage from the cannons or just wait until they can see enough other members of their side and attack en masse.

Whenever I've had to go to the other side and fight in or around their base I've found it very frustrating as it has not been about just being good at PvP but also being aware of the defences, given the other side a huge advantage. Mobs may be a pain but at least both players have to worry about those!

Yesterday, I actually had a great time in Sirens though as the entire battle was taking place somewhere in the centre meaning that both teams were strung out from travelling back from hospitsal with a real ebb and flow as one group of heroes arrived at the battle and tipped the odds, then a group of villains arrived back from hospital and tipped the battle and so on.

With the base hospitals all having 'doors' to enter/exit why not just have the contacts/insp vendors in the relevant hospital and make the doors only allow those from the correct game to enter and do away with all the defences? You then get a safe point for everyone to regroup and the battles are then about PvP skill rather than being closer to your defences and able to run whenever you want.

On a seperate note, those who were in Sirens yesterday, good fight fellas. Almost no ganking, none of the bad broadcast chat and a fun battle. Felt sorry for Gravitress, Flam Strike and Storm Dragon who seemed to be the prime hero targets and was alittle surprised my Ice/Ice Corruptor wasn't targeted a bit more by the heroes

Was also fun to be chased by JackieBoy/Krusty, my VG's PvP expert, and have his level 39 scrapper just fail to take me down before I ran several times ina row, only for me to come back and get a hold on him before tearing him apart with my lvl 23 ice/ice Corruptor in what was probably my first real taste of a PvP zone

Err,

Why does it say '3 Unique forum Titles'?

There is nothing on the CoH/CoV sites about this so how can unique titles be offered without the Mods organising it?

Some more minor ammendments. Swapped frost breath out as the animation on it is slow and capped all the slow powers with 2 slows instead of 3.

Not sure what the end cost on it will be like but if it's not too bad, I may swap some of the end reducers for extra damage in attacks

01 : Infrigidate acc(01) acc(17) slw(25) slw(25) defdbf(27) defdbf(34)
01 : Ice Blast acc(01) acc(3) dam(3) dam(15) dam(17) endred(33)
02 : Ice Bolt acc(02) acc(34) dam(37) dam(40)
04 : Snow Storm endred(04) endred(5) slw(5) slw(7) recred(7)
06 : Hasten recred(06) recred(13) recred(13)
08 : Freeze Ray acc(08) acc(9) hlddur(9) hlddur(11) hlddur(11) recred(15)
10 : Combat Jumping jmp(10)
12 : Hurdle jmp(12)
14 : Super Speed runspd(14)
16 : Health hel(16)
18 : Bitter Ice Blast acc(18) acc(19) dam(19) dam(23) dam(23) endred(33)
20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21) endrec(21)
22 : Super Jump jmp(22)
24 : Acrobatics endred(24)
26 : Bitter Freeze Ray acc(26) acc(27) hlddur(31) hlddur(31) hlddur(31) recred(33)
28 : Benumb recred(28) recred(29) recred(29) endred(34)
30 : Assault endred(30)
32 : Tactics endred(32)
35 : Sleet defdbf(35) defdbf(36) slw(36) slw(36) recred(37) endred(37)
38 : Heat Loss recred(38) recred(39) recred(39) slpdur(39) slpdur(40) endred(40)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can bring a team on the day but your team will be noted down so if you lose no skiping to another team and once tourn starts no other teams can join.

The Hordenly the strong survive.

Globel:Ronin

[/ QUOTE ]

Think we will also apply a 'no substitute' rule. the team that starts the night must be the same one that finishes it as we don't want people looking at other teams and swapping players to counteract then for specific matches.

If we do get a huge turnout and have to run it over sepereate days, substitutions and matchscheduling will be discussed then and Red and I will take any requests on board and make decisions on the night.

I will be co-ordinating the hero side as D-Zol and will be based in the Saphire zone on the night.

[/ QUOTE ]

Saphire in which arena mate?

[/ QUOTE ]

Err, I thought the arena were linked so no matter which entrance you took, you still ended up in the same arena, like the Pocket D exits?

I don't go there much so ma proboably wrong though, in which case I will be in the Galaxy City one

Also, a little note on this whole 'Heroes have an extra 10 lvl's of slots that make a big difference'

Fair enough, they do. However, I think people's opinions on how much use those 10 lvl's worth of slots are may be a little OTT.

- When exemped, there IS a weakening of those SO's to try and stop SO'd people exemping down to PL people. There is a thread about this knocking about at the moment and it has been confrimed by a Dev. Yes, there are still some benefits but not enough to really make a difference.

- The other point is that most of these extra slots are normally taken up on epic powers. As the exemp does not let you use those powers, you've essentially not got another 10 lvl's worth of slots.

OK,

I've got my villain to lvl 23 now and can see how some of these work and some don't. That in mind, I've come up with an altered build and would appreciate any comments. At a glance, I seem to hve no offence but can't actually see where I can free space up to try and fit another attack in.

The obvious question is 'why SS and SJ?'

I've tried just having SJ as my travel power but the fact I can't run SJ and CJ at the same time left me choosing between mobility or immob resistance so slotting SS in solves it a little.

Any comments on the actual slotting would be nice as well

Archetype: Corruptor
Primary Powers - Ranged : Ice Blast
Secondary Powers - Support : Cold Domination

01 : Infrigidate acc(01) acc(17) slw(25) defdbf(25) defdbf(27) endred(34)
01 : Ice Blast acc(01) acc(3) dam(3) dam(15) dam(17) endred(33)
02 : Frost Breath acc(02) acc(37) dam(40)
04 : Snow Storm endred(04) endred(5) slw(5) slw(7) slw(7) recred(34)
06 : Hasten recred(06) recred(13) recred(13)
08 : Freeze Ray acc(08) acc(9) hlddur(9) hlddur(11) hlddur(11) recred(15)
10 : Combat Jumping jmp(10)
12 : Hurdle jmp(12)
14 : Super Speed runspd(14)
16 : Health hel(16)
18 : Bitter Ice Blast acc(18) acc(19) dam(19) dam(23) dam(23) endred(33)
20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21) endrec(21)
22 : Super Jump jmp(22)
24 : Acrobatics endred(24)
26 : Bitter Freeze Ray acc(26) acc(27) hlddur(31) hlddur(31) hlddur(31) recred(33)
28 : Benumb recred(28) recred(29) recred(29) endred(34)
30 : Assault endred(30)
32 : Tactics endred(32)
35 : Sleet defdbf(35) defdbf(36) slw(36) slw(36) recred(37) endred(37)
38 : Heat Loss recred(38) recred(39) recred(39) slpdur(39) slpdur(40) endred(40)

[ QUOTE ]
You can bring a team on the day but your team will be noted down so if you lose no skiping to another team and once tourn starts no other teams can join.

The Hordenly the strong survive.

Globel:Ronin

[/ QUOTE ]

Think we will also apply a 'no substitute' rule. the team that starts the night must be the same one that finishes it as we don't want people looking at other teams and swapping players to counteract then for specific matches.

If we do get a huge turnout and have to run it over sepereate days, substitutions and matchscheduling will be discussed then and Red and I will take any requests on board and make decisions on the night.

I will be co-ordinating the hero side as D-Zol and will be based in the Saphire zone on the night.

[ QUOTE ]
Just wanna make sure i got it clear before i run my mouth. I understand that we're only allowed to enter once, but wanted to make sure that multiple teams from the same VG are allowed. Think i already know the answer, but no harm in finding out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, we definitely do not want to make it an Sg event as that will exclude a lot of PvP players who happen to be in mainly PvE groups, not to mention that any of the 1 AT SG team won't be able to enter

That said, there will clearly be single SG teams there so we're not going to penalise them for being in the same VG if they can put more than one team together.

Besides, if we did that, the smart ones would just leave their Vg for the duration of the tournament then re-join with most of us none the wiser!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

this is a fact ive actually been thinking of.. and since the entire European community wants to see us dead, humiliated and escorted off test in a bodybag

[/ QUOTE ]

not to burst your bubble or ego but as there ahve been a number of posts not knowing who your VG is, many people not bothering with pvp or its machinations and I personally couldnt care less whichever way it goes. With these facts established its safe to say that "the entire European community wants to see us dead" is by far and away an immense exaggeration.

[/ QUOTE ]

A VG/SG can still be well-known outside of PvP, especially if it's members frequently team with non-members.

[/ QUOTE ]

so why would they want them in a bodybag? and as I clearly showed in my own feelings and those of other posters the "the entire European community" doesnt want them dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

That said, there is a general 'anti-violator' sentiment amongst some of the groups who know of them.

I know the 'Man Utd' syndrome could be quoted in that people don't like those at the top but it may be a little more than that.

E.V.I.L, for example, aren't far behind Violators on CoV yet they command a fair bit of respect. Same goes for The Horde.

On the whole, I've found Dr. Death has been helpful with any questions I've had on the VG/SG Leaders channel but there are many in my VG who do not want to PvP against them purely as a result of the attitudes they've seen some of the Violator members poting on here.

I know i've not seen many Union VG's using the 'we pwn all' posts that some of the Violators do which is why my guys feel that PvP against them will not about fun but about becoming another notch to boast about.

Thinking you are the best is one thing but arrogance and boasting is never the mark of true champions. Especially this early in PvP life as there are only 2 or 3 PvP groups on the Union Villain server so it's only a matter of time before some of the other expert CoX players put in a concerted effort to crack PvP.

Not confrimed the length of matches yet as I need to check what the minimum is. Won't have them too long though as there should be a lot to get through.

D/C's in matches are tough luck but if they happening while zoning into the map, will just reset as long as the delay isn't too long

If I'm about and there's room, I'll bring my lvl 45 scrapper, Kal'tk

Hmm, seems to have gone very quiet in here, even though members of the Violators have been spotted posting in other threads.

[ QUOTE ]
P.S. well done for organising this will be great fun

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't claim the credit, it was Red Fire who came up with the idea las night, he just took too long posting it and I got impatient waiting

[ QUOTE ]
when the 50 zone comes it wont be an issue cause they will be seen by almost everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apart from other villains of course as they don't seem to have any equivalent of the focussed accuracy power that a lot of heroes have access to by lvl 50

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who are the Violators?

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought similar, I thought they were on Defiant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Different Violators. The CoH SG Violators on Defiant has been round since the launch of the game. The VG Violators have only been around since CoV and the fact they were on a different server meant it couldn't stop them from taking the original Violators name.

[ QUOTE ]
Heres a surprise, gonna disagree with ya again Kinslayer lol.

[ QUOTE ]
... They take no skill whatsoever to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely you could label this at all AT's. I mean a scrapper for example, all you do is wade in, hit the buttons and then move onto next target

Stalkers can be very frustrating but to label that it takes no skill is abit much. Alot of heros thesedays have measures (especially when got a good team) to counter stalkers. Now taking down these people surely show an element of skill (im sure i remember a big thread about skill in pvp ).

I would say stalkers are one of the most easiest and forgiving ATs to use due to there nature. Thus most people could do well playing a stalker. However, some people excel (wont mention names) with this AT and you can definetly notice a difference between an average stalker and a great one (in my opinion).

[/ QUOTE ]

But that's exactly WHY I say they take no skill. As a scrapper or any other AT, knowing when to attack and when to run does take skill. If you're going through the zone and are ambushed, being able to escape takes skill.

As a stalker, you can pick and choose your targets and deliberately pray on the weak. There is no fear of getting ambushed. If you approcha someone and they're not reacting, you know you've got an easy kill on your hands. If they do react by running or attacking, you know to run.

Other AT's are forced into uneven contests and that's where real skill shows. Stalkers can just ignore anything that's not going to be easy for them.

I have a lvl 45 scrapper and while he's good in PvP, he still get's killed farily regularly and still has to work for a lot of his kills. With my stalker, that just was not the case as I could bump my rep easily by simply being able to pick and choose my fights.

People may disagree but the simple fact is that in half an hour, my stalker gained more kills than any other AT i've played in PvP zones could in 5 times the length of time.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mmmm so its the whole of defiant vs. 1 vg? sounds fair

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, they seem to talk like they're the best. We're just asking to follow up with what they say.

Hell, you guys are welcome to join with them. In fact, that would be even better. Lets get a "The Best Of Union vs The BEst Of Defiant" SG rumble going on. Matches are in teh arena, tactical start with the cap at level 40 so villains can join in too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would be very open to this. I just happen to have a prototype stalker on the test server and would love to see how it does against the best deviants, I mean defianteers.

I think this has more chance of happening then you fighting the violators as I dont think majority of them would have the test server set up (and would be bothered to set it up).

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure they can really turn the challenge down though Max, given the way there are several posts on the forums from Violator members offering open challenges and claiming their uberness

Would be kind of embarassing for them as a VG to be taken up on their challenges and then back out!

If they do accept, I will certainly be keen in coming along to watch and it's not like the test server takes longer than 10-20 minutes to set up anyway.

Personally, I've had a bee in my bonnet about stalkers for a long while. They are horrid to play in PvE and every bad experience I have had in PvP zones has been at the hands of them.

I played one on Beta up to lvl 19 and avoided them like the plague since but, on a whim, I decided to roll one and get him to 20.

So, Felarn get's to 20, rather easily as he just stealthed kill boss missions, hardly challenging. Then I toodle off to the PvP zone, and find out why they are so disliked..

... They take no skill whatsoever to play.

I walked around and got more kills in the half hour or so I was there than I've got with my lvl 40 since CoV went live. It's also worth pointing out that I was only lvl 20 as well so was still on DO's, would have been even more of a breeze if I had SO's.

There is no skill in picking the build, no skill in the playstyle, it's simply about following a few people around and waiting until they're distracted before running in with the AS and walking away with the easy rep to find another victim.

Of course, you may miss but that's not a problem as you just hit TP and wait until Hide kicks in before another attempt.

I'm still relatively new to PvP despite a year in the game but, all in all, playing as a stalker for just short while showed that pretty much any fool can successfully PvP one and it's no wonder other palyers get so frustrated by them

It will be two seperate competitions. One for heroes and one for villains.

Once both competitions are over, we will then have a grand final with the winners from each side facing off.

Main reason for this is that a mixed tournament would have seen it too much in the heroes favours due to all those extra slots.

As Red is happy to sort the villain side, I'll look after things on teh hero side with D-Zol.

Also worth mentioneing that my SG is a little short on certain AT's around that lvl so if anyone wants to take part, send a me a tell in game to @Kinslayer and I'll let my SG know.

Must say that there has been a very good response on the villain side but you cowardly heroes are proving a bit of a let down TBH.

That's good news Ronin as it mean as I can go over to the hero side and organise it from there.

I've posted on the 1 AT SG site to let them all know but the interest from the CoH side seems to be scarce at the moment. I may do some advertising over arena for the next few days so all the non-forum users know about it.

Nope, still not you guys. It's Noir's original SG The Paragon All Stars that are reforming as a lot of the mebers who left are now returning to the game.

That's right guys,

On sunday the 23rd April, a few of the SG leaders are going to be running a PvP arena tournament. Kick off will be 18.00 and the rest of the rules are as follows

- 2 Tournaments. One for Heroes one for Villains
- Battles take place in arena
- Pentad format meaning 5 man teams with one of each AT
- Battles fought at lvl 35-40 (I think that's the one, whichever weight is just below the epic power level)
- Knockout format
- Winners of Hero/Villain side to meet in a grand final

This is open to all and you do not need to register in advance, just turn up on the night. If you have a full team, great, if not there will hopefully be plenty of people wanting a team who you can join.

As soon as you arrive, you will need to give a team name and nominated team leader. You will then be paired up with another team for your first fight. After the fight, the leaders will tell me the result and you will go through to the next round.

Looks like we have plenty of people to help arrange the villain side but if there are any heroes who don't mind being 'marshalls' for the CoH side, please let me know.

We already have E.V.I.L, Horde, Violator, New Blood Rebellion and Bloodline all confirming at least one team. Hopefully it will be a fun event and for those who haven't really had much luck with PvP, 'Pentad' battles are the purest form IMHO and about as fun as it gets.