Jester

Kora missions used to award EXP for gathering the insps.

Farming them for Insps was not deemed worth worrying about since only those over level 46 could go in and farm, there is a very limited number of insps you can possibly carry, and you use them so quickly in missions (at least the dev's want you to use them quickly) that you should use an entire tray of insps in one mission which really means your going in to farm kora every other mission and slowing down your actual progress in the game.

Just like the mobs that pour out of the Circle of Thorns Portals used to be minions, lt's and bosses giving exp for their kills and people would setup teams of 8 and go afk with auto attacks on that would kill the mobs and gain MASSIVE amounts of exp and inf.

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Yeah, it's not an exploit. The missions are repeatable by design and are intended that way. There's no rules against doing the same mission to completion over and over again. If that's the case, then I guess the Kora Fruit missions are exploits because it allows people to constantly get an influx of the best inspirations?

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Sorry you havn't been around long enough.. the Kora Missions USED to be very different.. they were already nerfed.

When the Devs realize that people are farming the missions in the PvP zones for Prestige and not just playing them for the fun of it.. they'll nerf them.

Its standard procedure to discourage any farming-like activity.

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Yes but some of us perfer not to use exploits to gain the extra prestige. Nor are we asking to have the bases handed to us. What we are asking is a realistc time frame to obtain basic functionality within normal play means.

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Exploits? God you whiners are relentless. Anything that is productive is classified as an exploit?

Cry me a river.. build me a bridge.. and get the F#%^ over it. You guys are like friggin locusts. The moment someone reduces your invalid attempts at crying doom with proven evidence, you flock to a new place to complain about something different.

Oh my god.. Maldini.. your going into a PvP zone? and earning a bonus to prestege while helping your side get buffs and debuff the opposing side? Your using the zone for what it was intended for? OH MY GOD YOUR SUCH A CHEATER! *sarcasm*

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First off, prestige should be earned FROM ANY Gameplay in a reasonable rate where any SG can will be able to create a raidable base in a reasonable amount of time.

Telling people "well go to bloody bay and do the missions there" isn't a solution. Its not even close.

People want to be able to play their characters, run through story arcs not sit in bloody bay doing missions all the time b/c they may or may not like pvp in general but still want to earn a reasonable amount of prestige for their SG.

You all keep saying go to bloody bay. Bloody Bay is not an option for every character, infact its an option for very few b/c the missions are only attainable in a certain level range. Often a group doesn't have anyone in that level range or the level range for other pvp zones or not all of the group members want to go to those zones b/c they're pvp.

Everyone's been posting Evidence of what they're earning, 2.5k has been about the average per hour rate. 50k Per week seems the average for small SG's.

Screaming that they should just go to Bloody Bay b/c you think its how prestige is best earned ignores all of the PvE game that people actually ENJOY about this game.

People shouldn't have to be forced to a pvp zone to earn a reasonable amount of prestige that isn't that reasonable either.

No one is whining. Its poeple like you coming in screaming about whiners that never get anything accomplished. We've been discussing what we're experiencing and how best to change things for the better and all your doing is screaming stop whining.

Try actually discussing solutions, alternatives or providing proof to back up your statements not just "go to bloody bay, this guy said its better".

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Thats just too much free Prestige floating around. Surely we can all see that. There's no way that in less than one year any SG should be able to MAX OUT their base. Barring of course some extremely dedicated Groups. I'm sure there will be at least one. There always is...

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When you factor in the cost of replacing lost items from raids, crafting, and rent its really not that much free prestige floating around.

Wow.. I was just number crunching a bit..

For a group of 10 to earn 5 million Prestige in one month each person would need to play 24 hours a day earning 694 Prestige per hour.

Well lets drop this down to a more casual level... lets say the average player plays 4 hours a day. Not hard to do and many of us play much more.

At 4 hours a day each person would need to earn 4166 Prestige per hour. That is about DOUBLE what the average player can earn just doing missions right now. We've all been tossing around the 2 to 2.5k number.

So, if they were to double the amount of prestige per kill so that a casual player is earning 4k per hour that means:

An SG of 10 players all playing 4 hours a day for 30 days will earn 5 million Prestige in one month

An SG of 75 players all playing 4 hours a day for 30 days will earn 37.5 Million in one month.

37.5 Million will allow a base to be built on the smalllest "Secure" location with light base defenses and all the amenities that an SG would want with enough left for crafters to have fun crafting and SG's could start shooting for the larger more complex base layouts over a time period of 3 to 8 months.

Doubling the average prestige income will also require a modification to the tax rates, however I wouldn't touch the tax rate on the SG base itself.. just the Prestige in the bank rate. That way if an SG is investing all their Prestige and not just bankrolling a huge amount they'll get a better return on their earnings.

Before anyone goes off screaming about how many SG's have gamers playing more than 4 hours a day, think about how many players are actually on on the average in those SG's. The largest SG's still rarely break 50 people on for more than 3 or 4 hours a day. The rest of the time its 15-20 people playing for 5 or 6 hours sometimes more depending on the day of the week and if they're holding down a full time job.

So lets complicate this up a bit:

Lets say a large SG has 50 people playing for 3-4 hours a day.

Out of those 50, 20 of them actually play for 6 hours a day.

Thats 30 people at 4 hours
Thats 20 people at 6 hours

The 30 People in one day earn: 480,000 Prestige
The 20 People in one day earn: 320,000 Prestige
Thats a total of 800,000 Prestige per day for the average Large SG.

Over the course of a month that's 24 Million.

Thats not an extreme amount. Infact that would leave players not having to worry about weather or not they can place items they craft in bases.. it would leave SG's not having to worry if their reactor gets ganked during a raid and doesn't regenerate afterwards, b/c most likely they'll be able to afford to replace it.

In addition, an SG who does NOT build a base and waits to build one after they get enough to afford the largest plot of land would take nearly six months to afford just the plot of land. They would then take at least 2 more months buying and placing rooms and equipment.

AN Sg who's actively using their base and participating in crafint, raids, etc would take somewhat longer b/c of rent, lost items from raids, etc.

Does that sound unreasonable to anyone?

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If a casual SG could get a Raiding Base built in a month don't you think a large SG would have everything they could possible have in about 3 months. That wouldn't be acceptable either. If you want a decent way to build a Base quickly take your SG and hunt Hot Spots in Siren's Call. One member of my SG did that for several days in a row and still has more Prestige than anyone else in the SG, including me

Which is about 70K, btw

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No Warp, it would take much longer. The largest land plot is 137 MILLION Prestige just for the plot of land. For a small SG to earn 5 million in a month... would mean a large SG would be earning around 20 million in a month.. maybe 40 if they're REALLY good and really working it.

At that point your still looking at over 7 months just to affford that really really HUGE base plot. Now true in 20 million an SG can have a pretty amazing base but the Large SG's are going to want to be able to get those larger plots of land for more options and to make their bases more difficult to raid. Your still looking at a very long time before an SG would get to max things out.

Not to mention a large SG earning 20 milllion a month would allow the crafting to be opened up to more sg members b/c there's be prestige around to build things at will instead of buildling something and then having an arugement erupt b/c all the prestige wsa used up.

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Actually, I believe one of the raid teleporters DOES fit in the 2x2 room. I want to say it's the magic one.

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I'd be highly suspect of that. They did a good job making sure all the tech and arcane stuff took the exact same requirements to place.

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Okay wiseguy, I guess I'll "enlighten" you a little so that maybe by the grace of God up above you'll stop whining.

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First of all many small SGs can't get a full team of 8 together on a consistent basis.

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There's a simple solution to this problem: if you can't get a team of 8 then get a team of 4 or 5 or 6, etcetera. Be a good SG leader and set some time per week that SG should team together. Make it mandatory if you must, but if you want a raidable base then you need to be more affirmative with your SG. If you can't get a group of at least 4 or 5 then just forget about a raidable base because your SG has more problems then just not being able to afford a base. After all why shouldn't a very small SG take a much longer time to create a raidable base than a larger SG? It makes sense doesn't it?

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Is there anything wrong with this? No, the Devs have NEVER said a small SG should not have an item of power. When/If the Devs say this I will drop my whole argument.

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Like I said, all SG's could have a raidable base, but it's obviously going to take a 1 to 10 man SG much longer than a 75 man SG.

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Second, various people have said that by just doing missions (not counting the PVP zones) they can get about 2.5k per hour. Well 2.5K per hour times 8 people is 20K for the SG per hour...This means 5 hours for this team of 8 to get 100K, not a "couple hours."

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Acutally when you start factoring in multiple mission bonuses, boss and Lt prestige values, and maybe even some AV bonus for the sake of argument, 2.5 K per hour is an understatement. I was farming Dead Scanner with 8 of my SG mates and brought in over 100 K in around 2 hours. Can't fight AV's yet so that it can't factoring into your Prestige farming? Then either find some high level friends or focus more on leveling the characters in your SG before you think about base building. Besides if you try to raid, and go up against an SG of 50's they'll have an advantage over you in slots and enhancements. So yes, you can get quite a few hundred K prestige in a week, you just have to work as a group with a goal in mind. Can't do this? Then work on your leadership skills and authority in your own SG.

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Third a raidable base, which is perfectly reasonable for a small SG to want, costs about 4.5million.

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Wrong, a basic raidable base will cost about 1.5 to 2 million. How do I know? Because I'm just about there and that's how much I've spent.

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Even using your incorrect figure of 200K per week

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Now that I think about it, that may have been an understatement on my part.

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for a small SG the group who want a raidable base will take about 21 weeks. (Note: with the 300K bonus it would take 21 weeks, without more like 22) Now I don't really think 21 weeks is that bad (although I do think it is about 6-8 weeks too long, but I am not arguing over 6-8 weeks), but remember we were using a 200K per week figure that is possibly overstated by a factor of 4...So that 21 weeks becomes 84 weeks, which IS too long.

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If you guys really want a raidable base and have such a small SG, then you're going to have to focus your energies for a while. It can be done in less time than that, but you'll have to sacrifice your time and try and get more people to work together. Can't do that? Then stop complaining. The larger SG's have an advantage in that some of them actually have enough to form full teams to farm for prestige. You can't do that? Well then build up your SG, nothing more to say about that. For a raidable base you have to make sacrifices. If you don't want to do that, that be quiet and settle for a PvE base, plain and simple.

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Fourth, various small SG/VG are saying they are averaging 50K a WEEK. This totally blows out of the water your assumption of 100K in a DAY.

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Well then they're not trying their best and are obviously a casual SG. They're not? Then I could show them a thing or two about farming prestige. The more higher level players in a group, the easier it will be to farm prestige on a massive scale. If you don't have a lot of high level toons, then focus on building up your characters before all others.

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Please go back and read some of the data that has been presented.

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The data is skewed because not all of the smaller SG's on all the servers are represented here. And I don't have enough time in the day to read through every post. I got the jist of the thread in the few posts I did read. You should spend less time complaining on these forums and more time getting in the game and raking in the prestige.

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Your cocky I'm better than you attitude can just take a hike. These folks are describing THEIR EXPERIENCES and discussing them. Just b/c you (In City of Villains from what I gather) have found a way to make 100k in a couple of hours doesn't mean that every SG can accomplish that. "Shared Mission Complete Bonuses" well guess what.. those arn't IN CoH yet.

Your automatically assuming that these folks who are only earning 50k per week arn't teaming together, generally the point of a supergroup IS TO TEAM TOGETHER. More than likely they always are.

Beyond that, I can state for a fact that the Villan Group I run on Protector averages 15-20 people online (having over 60 members) playing during afternoons and into the early morning and all of them working their missions together are making under 100k in a day not a couple of hours. Several of them are already in their high 30's, many are in their mid 20's. These arn't casual gamers, these are folks who know what they're doing and that's all their making. A smaller SG who can just barely form a team of 8 for more than an hour, isn't going to be able to make anything close to that. Its been stated over and over again by numerous people as fact that they arn't earning that.

Just because YOU don't think they're working hard enough or doing things right doesn't make you right. It makes you a jackass.

You obviously can't see the bigger picture and look beyond your own experiences b/c over and over you've stated that if they can't do what your doing their not working hard enough or doing it right. Thats the beauty of MMO's there's never one way to do anything.

I can say with some certainty that I've seen SG's earn 70k in one hour using 13 people, however those SG's have chosen to keep that method quiet and I respect their wishes.

I've also seen methods where a single player can earn as much as 10k per hour, again those players have chosen not to post this info and I'm not going to do it for them.

However all of these methods are not for the average gamer and definitly not for the average SG.

While there will always be ways to earn prestige more quickly in the game they should not be required to be used in order for an SG to build a base in a reasonable amount of time.

I'm sorry but 20 weeks is nothing close to reasonable. It shouldn't take nealry six months to build a raidable base for a small SG.

Your 1.5 - 2 Million Raidable base is a myth...

A Raidable base requires:
6 Dimensional Anchors
Vault
Raid Teleporter
Mission Computer

A Raid Teleporter does NOT fit in the 2x2 room, which means in order to fit a 4x4 room for teleporting you have to sacrifice 2 rooms in your base.

On the basic Plot you can fit 9 2x2 rooms To fit a 4x4 room you have to give up 3 rooms. Now if you can manage to lay things out just right you can use the 150k long control room to use some of the lost space.. However using a 4x4 room leaves you with a max of:
1 4x4
1 1x4
4 2x2 rooms (*MAYBE a 5th 2x2 room)

Out of those 6 or 7 rooms 2 of them can NOT hold a dimensional anchor (The entrance and the Vault)

In order to have enough rooms for dimensional anchors and enough space for a Raid Teleporter YOU MUST Upgrade your plot to the 3.3 million prestige plot.

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Has anyone realized that it isn't possible to base raid yet, and it probably won't be possible until I7 when they add the 40-50 content?

Consider how long it will be until then, and how long you guys are hypothesizing it will take to build a raidable base... hmm..

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What are you talking about? Its possible to raid people now. Its just that no one has an item of power yet.

ITs still 100% possible to do an instant raid.

Base Raids are set to put everyone at level 40, no matter who's involved.

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Ok now that many of you have done the math & theory. Let's get to the real part.... the reality.

1 SG- 10 players (not toons.. players)
The basic base (PvE not PvP):
Entry
Energy Room 2x2 - 150k
Generator- 225k
Control Room 2x2 100k
Mainframe- 150k
Control Terminal - 30k
Workshop 2x2 - 100k
workbench 25k

My SG currently has all of that, except the workbench, today. As in right this very moment. We will have the workbench tonight. This is what I deem a barebones base. Something to start using the salvage. The medical room and reclamators aren't a rpiority for us because you always have the hospital. We will be building a zone teleporter and all that other good stuff, but that comes with time.
Gaining prestige takes time. I really don't care that a larger SG can build that stuff faster. They have more manpower and should be able to do that. There should be benefits just like there are consequences. IMO, nobody should be able to instantly construct a NORAD sized facilty. The pricing of the items could be scaled down slightly (5- 10% maybe)..... but it needs to be a challenge to earn it. No instant gratification.

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Rubber I can't disagree with everything, but the problem comes in that they've implemented prices for the larger stuff that are unattainable. Thats what we've been discussing.

It should take time to earn a base, however taking months just to get to a raidable base for those SG's who can't afford to conver hundreds of millions of inf should be the case either.

75% of the point of bases was to provide base raiding. Right now its going to be a long time before that happens. Even with a 5-10% reduction the costs of replacing lost items during a raid that don't regen will bankrupt an SG. Let alone worry about the rent.

The real problem is the pricing structure scales up but the prestige coming in doesn't fit the scale. Its not even close.

The problem is you can't look at this as just base building. Its the crafting system too. All the little goodies you unlock from SG badges, build at the worktables, etc, costs lots of prestige to place. It shouldn't take an SG 2 weeks to make enough influence to place one piece of equipment that one person built from salvage that they got in one day.

Ok Hairsplitter, your point is moot as well as no one who's been speaking of this topic and providing facts has EVER said in this thread that small SG's wouldn't be able to get a base.

Will they be able to get a raidable base within a reasonable amount of time? No. They won't.

2k Per hour, 10 people, playing 10 hours each a week would be: 22.5 weeks. Nearly Six Months before that SG could participate in a base raid with a base that has no defensive capabilities other than their members.

That doesn't take into them wanting to be able to craft anything beyond the mission computer and a basic telepad.

We've been discussing in this thread how it is impossible for even the largest SG's to attain the largest plots of land and we've proved that quite thoroughly. Its impossible to afford the rent of just the larger plots of land let alone be able put anything on those plots.

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Mathematically its not possible for anyone not even the largest SG's to ever afford the largest plots of land let alone be able to outfit them.

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Hmm no that's not true...

75 people, 40 hours a week, 2k prestige per hour.

That works out to be 6 million prestige per week. 25.8 million prestige per month. That means the above group could buy the largest plot of land in 5 months and 2 weeks.

Rent on that would run them around 2 million/week, at 3.5%.

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Maybe you can find those 75 people that can do that and hopefully they will rent themseleves out to help the others in the game.

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What? Isn't everyone's SG actually just a sweatshop in Asia?

No? Oh ok.

A large SG is not going to be able to earn 2 million in a week.

NO SG that is capped at 75 members has been able to actually have ALL of their members on simultaneously even for a few minutes let alone 40 hours a week for 5 months, 2 weeks.

We've had over 100 members in our SG since last October we've never hit more than 50 members on at any given time. We average currently around 35-40 members on each night. That's split between CoV and CoH. We're not even earing 100k per day in the CoV side, the CoH side has been adjusted b/c of us trying to find the best way to earn, inf-transfers, and the fact that few of our members are still running regular missions b/c when they do they're in CoV doing it b/c its the new thing.

When you take into account reality, such as the fact that even if you find a really really good method of getting prestige getting the entire sg to do it at the same time or constantly isn't possible b/c people want to play their characters, progress through their own story arcs and have fun with the game, not grind for prestige.

Throw that into the equation and your back at NOT POSSIBLE.

JUST for argument's sake lets say our SG on Justice is earning 100k per day. Our SG is full, we have members in other SG's who we swap in and out when we can with those who havn't been online for a while to keep all the active folks in one sg earning prestige.

100k a day means 10 days to earn 1 million. 1 million is only half the rent you said that would need to be paid per week (which by the way rent is bi-weekly so either you mistyped or did your math wrong). Even if the rent is 2 million per 2 week period at 10 days for 1 million your still not making it to the 2 million point intime to pay your rent.

Not to mention the amount of time it will take the SG to earn the 137 Million needed for one of the larger plots will be 1,370 days IF they don't pay rent, maintain a raidable base, maintain a working base, allow members to craft, or well use any prestige what-so-ever. If you factor in a small base of 5 million just to make it raidable, you've just added approximately another 60 or more days onto that total number once you figure in rent and replacing a few lost items during base raids.

So your looking at roughly 1400 days to get JUST THE PLOT OF LAND. 1400 days for those not wanting to do the math is 3.8 years.

The average lifespan of a supergroup is less than 1 year, even many of the large ones never made it longer than a year.

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In the meantime lets keep providing fact based evidence of how the system doesn't work.

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It doesn't work according to whom? You or the Dev's. Yes that was a retorical question... I know who doesn't consider the system to be working.

But based on everything seen so far, the Dev's do in fact seem to think the system works as is. Considering the effect the ton of posts had on ED, well... yeah.

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Mathematically its not possible for anyone not even the largest SG's to ever afford the largest plots of land let alone be able to outfit them. Thats where the system currently and most obviously fails.

ED wasn't going to be stopped, somethings will be changed to account for ED. However its an entirely seperate situation. With ED the change dramatically changes gameplay but does not prevent everyone from being able to use the features of the game. The problems many of us are seeing with Prestige numbers as they are is that NO ONE will be able to afford the upper teir options that have been put into the game. That is where the difference lies.

Posting about issues in the game does effect change. Boss XP/HP Changes of Issue 3 were a good example of this as were countless changes that were reversed or drastically adjusted to several power sets (regen one of the most noteable).

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I'm some what suprised that this is the only point in this thread worth responding to.

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I'm going to hope that its b/c they're forumlating a solution and instead of just telling us they're looking into it they're going to start doing something to improve it.

In the meantime lets keep providing fact based evidence of how the system doesn't work.

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Sorry, but the whole SG peepee waving is complete immature bunk and it has no place at all in game development.

Every SG, no matter how small (even 1 person) should be able to put together a base, build things with salvage, etc. Even an SG of 10-20 people should be able to build a PvP capable base. There should not be obscene rent costs that make hard core play mandatory just to maintain what you have built.

These costs are crazy. The rent is crazy. The fact that you need a huge SG to do anything is crazy.


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No one has said anything to that contrary, the examples provided were to show that NO ONE can achieve the largest stuff. If you had actually SAID THIS in the first place you would have gotten a respectable response.

Instead you opted to whine and not participate in the conversation. Hence my response.

To automatically assume I was saying that only large sg's should be able to do something is ludicrous.

Your "Everyone Pays the same amount" argument still holds no water b/c by that logic everyone should access to Peacebringers, Warhsades without having to work to get to 50. Everyone should be able to raid hamidon wihtout getting to level 45.

Its a tired old arguement that holds no value to anyone but those who want to whine.

The current system caters to NO one.. the "uber SGs" are finding it difficult to build a base just as the little SG's are.

Everyone's having a hard time with this system and there's no doubt about that. This entire thread was never bout Uber SG's, it was about doing the math to prove that no one would be able to use all the features which INHERITLY means that the small groups are screwed.

If you couldn't get that from the countless posts in this thread then you need to go back and reread the whole thing.

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I have not seen anywhere that the Dev's have posted that there is a problem with the Prestige and base system. None in the Dev Digest or elsewhere in the forum. If you have proof of such post please post a link to it so the rest of us can see it.

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Peg, don't even bother, I have no clue what this persons last two posts said but they are here to simply start arguments.

They claim I was insulting when I was simply stating fact that ranting and raving about what the devs should have done and that just b/c one person pays the same amount as someone else means that everyone should be able to access all the content equally is pointless. They're a troll and nothing more.

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it has already been noted by the devs that if the current system is flawed, they will look at changing it.

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once again, read.

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Your absolutly right.

*puts troll food away, puts Ed Anger on ignore*

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Don't Swap Out.. add on.. b/c you'll always need the basic as well as the advanced when working on the expert.

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Given 693k Prestige, I could buy 3 Databases, 2 Workrooms, and all 3 tables, and let them sit around mostly unused. But no one has given me that much Prestige, and I wouldn't want to dedicate that much Prestige to mostly idle gear.

Instead I spend 125k for a workroom and basic bench, and temporarily sell the Infirmary when I need the better benches. Despite having about 7 of us around level 30, we've found almost no salvage requiring the Advanced or Expert tables to turn into refined materials.

Now perhaps I'm missing something. I've assumed that items are built entirely on one table, but your comment begs the question... Are there items which you can only build if you have more than one work bench in a workroom?

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No but you dont' have to be able to edit the base to use the worktables.. you'll be limiting your SGmates on what they can do or you'll have to stand there and swap tables in and out for them as they need them.

The basisc material (tech power, tech material) are used in building things on the advanced and expert tables and can only be built on the basic table..

hence why your better off just sticking with and adding on as you can afford it. Not to mention the higher level the table something is made on the more it costs to place. So if you can't afford to have all 3 tables more than likely you won't even come close to being able to place what you'd create off of one for a long time to come. (Example Advanced Table allows you to create a Turbine Generator, it costs 1.5 million to place and requires a larger energy room than the basic one).

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it has already been noted by the devs that if the current system is flawed, they will look at changing it. there are already many posts with numbers here, some more with people stating their opinions cant hurt to get the message across that the player base is not happy.

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The devs have NOT stated anywhere officially that the 'system is flawed' Unless you've got a redname post that in the Dev Digest about the costs of Prestige that myself and countless others can't see nothing has been said about the system at all by the devs.

Now what was the point of your post? That you want to sit here and whine just beacuse you can? Well congratulations, mission accomplished.

Some of us are trying to actually help effect change. If you come into a thread that I am participating in and you post against that possiblility just to whine then you better believe I'm going to comment about it. I did NOT attack anyone I simply said its not needed and not wanted and to take it elsewhere.

Now lets get back to the topic at hand...

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insulting people who have real grivances does nothing to further the conversation, ie calling their comments "useless"

as it is, i completely agree with him. one of the main selling points of cov was bases and pvp, and everyone should be able to participate, not just the largest supergroups. the way the system is set up now itll take 6 months to a year to build a pvp base for a smaller group, thats not acceptable.

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NO one was argueing that small Sg's shouldn't be able to participate.. every example I used was showing that mathemeatically even the LARGEST SG can't afford the largest base plots let alone all the stuff in the base.

Ranting about what the devs should have done isntead of talking about how to fix what we have is useless and its not an attack its fact.

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Should giant SG's have more nice things? Yes, they should, they have more people and therefore can accumulate the money for more nice things very quickly. But note the use of the word more. My SG can't afford barely ANY nice things. Really, all we have are two big, nice rooms with an awesome layout, but they are all decorative. So it's nice to look at, but I still have a huge amount of unusable salvage. I still yearn for base raids and the high points of having a secret lair in the first place.

I'm not asking for a big [censored] generator for 1.5K energy and however much control a mainframe gives. Hell, I don't even WANT 1.5K energy. All I really want is a worktable, maybe an infirmary or one of those other neat rooms. Then to have my base grow from that. I don't think that's asking too much right?

Hell, I don't mind playing a month before I get the infirmary, but I do mind playing for a month before I can do anything at all. I do mind not being able to do the fun parts of having a base because we're a small VG. I ESPECIALY mind racking up loads of items I can't use. That's like holding candy in front of my face, then telling me to run 100 miles. Let's not forget every two weeks they're going to add onto that distance. This irks me to no end.

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actually, this is what he says. reading comprehension is your friend. hope you and your uber huge supergroup have fun building your base and having no one to pvp with.

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Please read all of a thread before posting. His original post:
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This system is SEVERELY broken in the way that it encourages and rewards only the most "uber" of Uber Guilds, and leaves smaller guilds (and individuals) completely in the cold.

Here's a little hint: we all pay the same for this game.

Designing the equivalent of "player housing" and making it something that is only available on the "Guild/Supergroup level" is a terrible idea.

Then making it so you also have to have a HUGE, incredibly active Supergroup to partake in any of the cool features, is just a terrible idea squared.


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Ed I suggest you pay attention to who's been leading the debate in this thread and not just reading one response to someone who initially posted ranting and raving semi-off topic talking about how things should have been done and attacking the devs for what they gave us instead of doing things his way.

It solves nothing and does nothing to further the conversation.

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2) Large Supergroups should have an advantage over smaller ones. the arguement "I pay as much as they do" doesn't hold water because in actuality you don't. 75 active people working together pay more than you do solo or as a group of 74.
3) Just be patient and try to actually participate in the conversation here instead of screaming useless comments about how you pay as much as someone else and should be able to do anything you want.

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no one here is arguing that a larger group shouldnt be able to have a bigger base. right now if you have a small group you will never be able to participate in a pvp base in any meaningful way. keep your useless comments to yourself, thanks.

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Actually thats exactly what Cambios was arguing.

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DJJester wrote:
2) Large Supergroups should have an advantage over smaller ones.. the arguement "I pay as much as they do" doesn't hold water because in actuality you don't. 75 active people working together pay more than you do solo or as a group of 74.


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First of all, the SG I am in is so huge we actually have to use 4 SGs for the members (and probably need more soon as well). I would classify it is a traditional "Uber Guild" (Forgotten Legion on Triumph, www.forgottenlegion.net) So be careful when you make assumptions.

Secondly, large supergroups should NOT have any coded advantages. They already have tremendous advantages from their sheer size. In our big SG, you can set up virtually any Trial, Task Force, or group with incredibly ease- even on the fly. You barely even have to plan them because there are so many people available. Small SGs already have huge disadvantages because they cannot do that. But that is their choice, so that's fine. But don't go and cripple them even further by deliberately releasing MAJOR content that is heavily biased towards Uber Guilds.

Thirdly, there are a lot more casual players than hardcore, large SG players. So 75 casual players pay just as much to play the game as 75 people in a maxed out SuperGroup. Why should the people in the Uber Guild get to enjoy one of the most significant new pieces of content but the casual players have no hope of enjoying it at all? That's crazy. It is bad game design and it just doesn't make sense.

Sure, some immature, pee-pee waving, Uber Guild nimrods love the idea. Probably the same folks here who think just because their SG has been around for a long time, they should automatically get more prestige. Sorry, stop thinking you are anything special just because you are in a big SG. You aren't special. Each member is still ultimately just a single customer. Thinking you are entitled to a better experirence or more features than anyone else is asinine, selfish, and misguided.

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The more people working together the better a base should be. This game is all about teamwork and if you can't get that then your playing the wrong game.

I never assumed anything in my statement I based my comments off of sheer fact. 75 people is currently the max that can be in any one SG. My sg before I5 had 8 SGs of characters we consolodated that down by removing some characters and filling a few that weren't full. We now have 6 SG's. That is irrelevant b/c no matter what you can not have more than 75 people earning prestige at any given time for an SG. 75 people working towards a common goal should be able to reap a better reward that 74, 73, or 1 person..

Screaming about how they should have implemented player housing isn't going to solve anything. INstead of saying what they should have done try suggesting how to fix what we have. Effecting change will only come from solid fact based posts pointing out where existing systems are failing and need to be adjusted not replaced.

The devs have already gone throught he process of designing the system and desiging what they believe would work best and I can gaurentee you that they know more about the system and what was best to implement than you do.

However showing them shortcomings of the system and making suggestionson how to adjust it at this point is exactly what they need.

Work with the devs don't sit there and whine. It gets you nowhere.

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My understanding is that multiple Robotic Fabricators stack- so you build 8 RFs, you get +40%. Do they stack with the arcane versions?

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Let's see, if I remember right, a robot fabricator is the thing that gives +5% chance of repairing an item if it is destroyed in a base raid. Yes?

If so, then I personally built 3 of them for the base I created in beta. But each one must be "attached" to a workbench. If you want more than 3, you'll need more than 3 workbenches (and the associated costs of each).

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Absolutly correct. so really its a max of 15% without going overboard on tables.

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I went home for lunch and found that we had just barely enough for a basic table as well. Made one, refined my raw salvage, even made a mission computer and basic telepad. Of course I can't place either unless I sell the entire workroom. :-( Tonight I should be able to upgrade it to an Advanced table, or possibly even have both. But that Expert Table is gonna take a lot, since is sucks up so much Control.

I had mid-teens in a couple of salvage items. Buffer Overdose VG has around 50 people, with around 10 toons in the 20s and probably about 20 or more in the teens. I'd call us a mid-sized VG. While I hadn't hit the limit, I definitely would if the VG was significantly smaller.

I have a new villain on Justice named "Tech Mule". :-)

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Don't Swap Out.. add on.. b/c you'll always need the basic as well as the advanced when workign on the expert.