Jannus

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For me, what Positron said about the expansion, about how it will give heroes and villains a chance to team up and "fight a common foe" makes me think it might be the Coralax (because of the whole anti-human/land-walker thing.)

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I dunno, I kind of suspect that the 'common foe' will either be something entirely new, that we wouldn't suspect, or possibly just something old...that we still might not initially suspect - Rikti, Praetorians, perhaps the return of the 5th Column? The last seems doubtable, but...I want to see the 5th come back, dang it! They're just too cool to let die...

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Hm, I just keep thinking "why would I help people who want to eat me?"

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Um...so they wouldn't eat you?

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Do Warshades, being Nictus, want to feed off of the good-PB? Of course not, it would be too short-sighted.


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Warshades made a pact with the Peacebringers, so they wouldn't.

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So why can't the Nictus make a similar agreement with fallen Khelds?

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I understand what you're saying about the fallen PBs helping the Nictus get more PBs, but some things are still unclear to me. Just as a reminder, I'm basing my conclusions from the Kheldian story arcs. I'm not saying I'm right nor am I wrong.

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I can definitely see your point in this, and why a potential fallen Peacebringer wouldn't want to join the Nictus, though I can still see it as being possible. Even so, however, assuming a fallen Peacebringer would never, in a million years, join the Nictus...why does that mean we can't play them?

They're still fallen, which means they're still villains, afterall...

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Well ok let's remember the Kheldian history:

The normal Kheldian (or Peacebringer) lives only up to 10 years long. Some of these Kheldians didn't approve, so they scientifically enhanced themselves, hence, the Nictus. These Nictus feed on Kheldians. If these fallen Kheldian would team up with the Nictus, wouldn't the Nictus want to eat these fallen Kheldian, and in return, would want to fight against them?

That's where I got "third party" from.

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Not at all. The Nictus have plenty of potential "food" in the PB Kheldians who oppose them. Especially in their currently 'weakened' state as a group, as evil as the Nictus may be, it would be foolish to turn down help from a PB.

Do Warshades, being Nictus, want to feed off of the good-PB? Of course not, it would be too short-sighted.

Now, should the Nictus win their little war with the rest of the Kheldians, then sure, they might, at that point decide to try and start feeding off the fallen PB, but not before then.

And even still, what do you think the primary motivation would be for a PB to join the Nictus? The potential for a little 'help' in that little 10-year lifespan problem.

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Wouldn't a fallen PB not make sense? I mean, they're peaceful people, if they fall, they become a third party..

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I don't see where you come to that concusion. If they were to fall, it would almost definitely be by joining the Nictus. I can't understand, really where you'd come to the conclusion that by falling, they'd have to become a third party...
I mean...I don't see why a fallen PB makes less sense then a redeemed Nictus...

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I would consider them rogue; but I was just using the term 'rogue peacebringer' loosely, it's easier to type than 'scientifically enhanced kheldians', lol, and yes I did, overall, meant 'evil khelds.' For better clarification, here's what I remember:

[*]Peacebringers are the (good) Kheldians, hence the Natural origin.

[*]Nictus are the scientifically enhanced Kheldians, turned evil.

[*]Warshades are Nictus gone good, hence the Science origin.

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That's as I remember, also. Guess we're definitely on the same page, then. Alls I'm sayin' though, is that, as long as we know Kheldians will be opened up for villains, and Heroes get Redeemed Nictus, why can't we get some fallen Peacebringers, eh? Eh?

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Haha, well it's not that bad. It's disappointing because I guess I'm over the whole Kheldian thing, but I've always wanted to play one. Now I'm gonna have the chance so that's good I guess. I sent a PM to Posi (which he probably won't respond to) and asked if there will be any major changes. It would be nice to see new forms for the Nictus, or at least, the rogue Khelds.

IIRC, Kheldians = Peacebringers, Rogue Peacebringers = Nictus, Rogue Nictus = Warshades. I'm not sure where I'm going with that but I think that's how it goes, lol. Let me re-read the Kheldian story arcs to see what we might get.

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Ok, well, I've never *played* a Kheldian, so all my knowledge about their stories comes from the forums, and the plot synopsis I read on the 'net. But from what I've gotten, Nictus as *not* exactly Rogue Peacebringers. They're more like to seperate sub-species of the same main race. I'm sure if you traced their geneology back far enough, you'd find a common root, but, if nothing else, Nictus have manipulated themselves through science, and are seperate, but related entities.

I mean, if nothing else, just look at the falicy in your previous statement:[ QUOTE ]
Kheldians = Peacebringers, Rogue Peacebringers = Nictus, Rogue Nictus = Warshades.

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So effectively...Warshades are...Peacebringers? No. Warshades are, from what we can tell so far, Rouge Nictus. If you want to think of Nictus as rogue Peacbringers, in the sense that they're evil Kheldians, then I suppose there's some truth to that.

A greater truth, to use metaphorical example however, would be if a group of Humans started genetically enhancing themselves, and decided to wipe out regular humanity. Would you consider one of them, who went rogue to help out regular humans, a 'regular human' or would they just be an 'enhanced human', working for the normals?

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According to an interview with Positron:

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There’s an epic archetype planned for the retail expansion, but until then we are looking at introducing Warshades to City of Villains. You’ll not get access to the new epic AT just by hitting level 50 this time. Instead we’ll send you on a special Strike Force or trial.

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I'm sorry this disappoints you, but I'm REDICULOUSLY excited by this! Granted, not as exciting as either Coralax, BotBS, Incarnates, or Avilans, but still, very excited none-the-less. I KNEW they were going to add Nictus, in some form or another to the Villainous EATs, there's just too much plot to support it.

The only question remaining, based on that statement is...will villains ONLY be getting Warshades...or some Nictus equivalent to Peacebringers, also...? Obviously not Peacebringers per se, but some sort of second Kheldian EAT? I mean...if Nictus can reform, and become Warshades, why can't Peacebringers fall and become....I dunno!

Exciting times for CoX right now, I say!

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I PM'ed Posi about avilans or costume piece. He only said and i quote "costume piece". And i realy wanted the avilans. Threre were the only new EAT i was looking forward too. . So i guess we can stop talking about avilans

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There is no way I'll believe this unless a red-name personally posts it in the forums somewhere. It's already far too 'confirmed' as a new EAT.

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wait, what if like trench coats, some of the eATs are unlocked by total subscription time?

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Sounds good to me. Makes it easily possible for anyone to get them, without them being everywhere.

In fact, though it may take awhile for it to happen, I can guarentee you, that at LEAST one EAT for each faction will be unlocked in this way.

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And according to Terminotaur:

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Wings, Trenchcoats - Both are coming very soon. Trenchcoats will be unlocked by the long term subscriber program. Wings are costume options and will not be specific to any certain AT.

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It seems as if the devs have taken it in consideration. Well, let's hope the game doesn't turn into City of Wings, which was my fear before, but I guess we'll see how this turns out.

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For Trenchcoats - Yay! I think that's excellent, it will allow anyone to, potentially, get trenchcoat, without allowing EVERYONE to - no City of Neo-Wannabes.
About the Wings - I dunno how I feel about that. When I first heard they were gonna be an EAT, I was somewhat dissapointed by this, thinking 'But I want to potentially be able to blast, OR fly in and melee!' but I've since realized that that could EASILY be more then possible.
Furthermore, making wings available to any AT, reguardless of the Avilan EAT, will, doubtless, result in, as you said, City of Wings. Don't get me wrong, I think wings are cool, and will assuredly make at least 1 character with wings. In fact, my demonicly possessed Necro/Dark MM, Asto Vidatu would love a set of wings on one of his costumes (each costume is a further perversion of his human body down the road of possession. His final costume would look AWESOME with wings)

Reguardless, I'm hoping they make wings, as a costume option, unlocked for all your characters, by unlocking the Avilan EAT however that will be done, that way, there will, hopefully, at least, not be so many of them. I'm also hoping that Avilans will be unlocked by the new Veteran Rewards system, and only after you've played for quite awhile - perhaps 2 years. Granted, that will make me ineligible for quite awhile, having joined the community JUST before last years anniversary, but still, I don't want to see hordes of people running around with wings. We're supposed to be Super-Heros/Villains here, not Angels/Demons. Thats a different game...

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Beyond that, we are looking to release another Issue building up the story towards our next retail box, due in 2007...this will include...a bunch of other cool stuff including new powersets and an epic archetype...The retail box will be an expansion to both City of Heroes and City of Villains.


From Statesman and Posi's address

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What if, perhaps, that EAT is Incarnates, and the entire expansion is built around that to a degree, as a certain theme? Some sort of entirely new game world only accessable to Incarnates? They're available to both heroes and villains, thus, but sort of being an upgrade, bringing them into their own seperate department...neither hero nor villain any longer, but sort of 'too powerful to be put in either section'

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Haha, yeah, but as for LR, we just might see some new Arachnos, like the red and purple ones maybe? Meh, who knows. I can't wait though.

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Red and purple ones? You mean the Fortunatas who set your mish difficulty, and such? That would be pretty cool. Know another way they could maintain the 'standard' 6-7 perma-pets, keep with the Arachnos theme, and still make him uber?
Give him Arbiters as pets.

Edit for "Arbiters" not being possessive

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The Soul Extraction from the Necro set, and such powers like that, including Gang War in the thug set, aren't perma-pets since they're like Controller pets: they have a time limit.

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That was half my point right there - though I must point out about Soul Extraction - it's sort of a hybrid between a MM pet, and a Controller pet. While it as a time limit, it IS controllable. Also, the time limit is kind of a joke. Put a couple recharge redux in there, and it's back almost before it drops.

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...the usual 8 as perma-pets...8 pets is just not gonna cut it.

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Also, except in cases such as Necro/DM, or, to a certain degree, Traps, if you want to count THOSE
(Necro's get the Ghost, also. DM and Traps get uncontrollable, 'Controller' style pets also, but they're nothing compared to the henchmen proper.), MM get a max of 6 perma-pets, not 8.
3 first tier
2 second tier
1 third tier

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But if he were gonna be a MM still, then I would think he would have more than the usual 8 as perma-pets. Afterall, tons of heroes are gonna go after him in RV. 8 pets is just not gonna cut it.

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Very very true. But how many perma-pets would they give him, before starting to worry about slowing down less top-end machines? I suspect, if he's MM at all, he'll likely still only have max 10-15 perma-pets
Also, don't forget, it says his ability as a MM hasn't diminished, but it doesn't say it's INCREASED, either. With his obvious SS/Inv powers added in - even though I doubt he'll have the array of SS/Inv powers an actual SS/Inv tank/brute would have, it will still make him significantly more powerful then your AVERAGE MM sans-pets.

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Arachnos MM I'm assuming.
But I doubt he's gonna be MM-ing it in RV.
I really doubt it.

Anyway, Statesman does have Incarnate powers. It's nothing too special, but Statesman does have lightning powers.

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That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm almost picturing it being somewhat modeled after the new Thugs pool, but with Arachnos minions instead of thugs. Perhaps something like a Wolfspider Huntsman, Blood Widow, and Crab Spider Slicer as his first tier, two Mu Guardians as his second tier, and a Fortunata Mistress as his third? And maybe in place of Gang War, he can summon 10ish random minions? Wolf Spiders, Spiderbots, etc?
I dunno, it's kind of difficult to pick among the current Arachnos baddies to be the pets in a MM set. Maybe a Toxic Tarantula, or a Tarantula Mistress in place of the third tier...I dunno

Thinking on my previous posting a bit more, however, lets think about what we've seen of Lord Recluse so far...
Not counting his lackies, Black Scorpion, Capt. Mako, et al, he seems to be sorely LACKING in MM style powers. Where are his 'pets'? I'm almost thinking he's got some sort of will-bending mind control powers (unlike the current Mind Control set) that allows him to turn anyone (besides PCs) into his pets? Something like that? To explain his use of distinct characters almost as if pets? I dunno, seems kinda out there, and iffy to me, but on the otherhand, once again: if he's a MM, where are his 'henchmen'?

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When we look at Statesman and Lord Recluse, one thing we have to remember is that story-wise they are Incarnates. The reason "ingame" that they are labeled as Tanks or Masterminds is because the game does not yet support the Incarnate AT, so when making a hero for Statesman (example) to use ingame, he has to create it off an already developed AT. From there (being devs) they are able to play with the powers and numbers, but again, they have to start with an already developed template.

That is all.

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I suspect that when we finally get to see Lord Recluse, in RV, we'll get to see that his powersets are remarkably similar to Statesmans, except with some variety of the current MM power sets instead of tanker power sets as their obvious primary and secondary pools.

The big question is on what kind of MM is Lord Recluse, exactly?

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States has always been a Tanker.

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Thank you.

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No, I meant that he was KIND OF a mastermind BEFORE he drank from the well of the furies. Afterwords he became a Tanker Incarnate.

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Ok...even still, he wasn't even KIND of a mastermind. He was a tanker. He was still Inv/SS before drinking from the well. I have a tanker that's the leader of a SG, is he 'kind of' a mastermind, because he's got people he can order around?

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It's probably too much to hope for that the Incarnate to be a hybrid that's available to an existing character via a kind of epic mission thread and/or badge collection. It doesn't really fit the Statesman origin story anyway...unless he was a already low level tanker when he drank that magic water!

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Statesman was actually a "mastermind" in command of a band of thieves before he drank from the well of the furies. It's in the book 'The Web of Arachnos.'

[/ QUOTE ]i was under the impression that states was a scrapper incarnate.. *shrugs*

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Where are you people getting all this horribly innacurate information? States is, and always has been a Tanker Incarnate. Even with the fact that he used to command a band of theives, that doesn't make him a Mastermind, there's a huge difference. Do his powers revolve around him being able to summon these thieves, and get them to do his bidding? No, so not a mastermind. His powers focus on being COMPLETELY immortal, and nigh-indestructable, and his having super-strength. IE - Inv/SS Tanker Incarnate. I can see where it could be confused that he could be a scrapper, considering the damage output he seems to have - even though SS is not available to Scrappers, since many of the signatures have powers not available to their ATs, but he is not, he is assuredly a tanker. This has been confirmed over, and over again. In fact, though there's less plausable evidence to support it (only the CoH CCG, to my knowledge) so is, in fact, Positron - he's merely a Rad/Rad tanker - which is bad-[censored].

* Villaingroup Name: The Red Fist of the Motherland
* Website (if any): None (yet, will most likely change this as we grow)
* Leader or Recruiting Officers: Crimson Threat, Scarlet Sickle, Huntsman Yuri, Siberian Shredder, Miss Eyecicle, Dr Chernobyl, Dr. Mindmeld, Quiet Strike
* Preferred Method of contact: Ingame email prefferably. Forum PM also works, however.
* Villaingroup Description: An 'RP-Lite' group, we focus heavily on RP, not not enough so to distract from gameplay. We're here to have fun. Considering themselves more heroes, then villains (for the most part, at least) they are simply willing to go to any lengths to advance their cause. That being, spreading a single, socialist, Soviet empire across the globe. For the good of all mankind, of course.
You need not be Russian, you need not, in fact, be Soviet in any manner. Simply be willing to dedicate yourself to the cause. Afterall, in the end, the goal is for EVERYONE to be Soviet.
So far we're on the verge of getting our base to a useful level. We'll be getting power, and control up and running likely by the end of the day. For such a small SG, we make decent prestige, but more is always better.
We are also the Nemesis group to the Saviours of the Motherland, on the Hero side, which is sadly inactive, but that may change given interest.

I'm building my 'Superman' and I have a big, important question.
I'm gonna respec at higher level to adjust for new powers, etc, but for now, I have Jab, Punch, and Haymaker as my only attacks. I want Hurl and Footstomp for sure, when I get to that point. I don't want hand slap, cause I don't like the sound of it. My big question is...I'm tight for powers...for my last attack, do you recommend Airial Superiority, as my ticket to fly, or six-slotting Hover for my fly, and getting Knockout Blow instead...somehow, I already think I know the answer is six-slot hover, I'm just worried about not having enough slots that way...

My guess? April Fools, they're all false!

How about a fake death? Sort of a 'GACK!' clutching of the throat, then falling to the ground in the dead position.