James_Bonnell

Hmm. A friend, now mostly departed (Mekhazzio) and I tested this once with AutoTurret and Siphon Power.

I dropped AT (on my ar/dev) with no damage enhancements in it, to get base damage, then he fired off Siphon Power - my damage went up, AT did not.

Waited until AT refreshed.

Siphon Power first, then dropped AT - AT's damage went up.

I assume, then, if it ends up working the same way, that damage buffs on the player will affect the summoned entity (blizzard, burn, caltrops) if the damage boost is in effect when it is summoned.

(Ponders what that will do to controller pets, if anything. They can already receive Fulcrum Shift buffs and lose them in the course of regular play. Hopefully, then, this change will mean - nothing at all to controller/dominator/MM pets as far as giving them damage buffs).

Instead, caltrops, blizzard or even something like the Acid Mortar might be affected by this change.

Obviously, I'm not a dev, but if it works the same way AT was buffed when we tested... boost damage first then drop the power. Opinion only until a redname comments, of course.

Actually, not being able to pick up a car has a lot more to do with the need to NOT have objects in non-instanced zones be destructible, which would leave them in a near-permanent state of destruction...

... after all, Propel lets gravity controllers throw cars. Well, appear to throw cars. And forklifts. Etc etc.

I would see no balance issue with changing the *animation* on Hurl, for instance, to make it into the car from Propel.

It wouldn't make a lot of SENSE to throw a car while you're in a cave, but how much sense does it make to toss a boulder at someone while you're in a lab map?

So... yeah.

Sorry, it's a guide - I'm going to nitpick: Dark PIT, Tar PATCH.

/pet peeve.

I think this change is not fun, having tried it some on test.

Having the Stealth suppress for *10 seconds*? Sheesh. IF you have to keep the unfun suppression mechanism, why not make it 4 seconds, like the travel powers? 10 seconds can be a very long time.

Also, 1) I still don't like movement suppression, as it breaks immersion and is just plain not fun after a few months of using it, but hey, it's more "fair" to the mobs, I guess... who can, say, if we're seen by a sniper, INSTANTLY and with almost unerring accuracy hit us as an alpha volley - which will be even worse in Update 5 by the way... no, I don't PVP. Bleah. Hunt-the-squishy was not my idea of a good time.

and 2) I think that chopping the +def you get, but then giving us the "bone" of allowing us to have half of the relative pittance you left in the powers, is unproductive at best. Either leave the entire halved amount, or just dump the +def entirely. 3% def is really not worth slotting, in my view.

I am in no way going to be slotting Stealth, Cloak of Darkness, Cloaking Device, or Group Invis for defense on any toon that can take them.

Which, I suppose, is what you are going for - as you considered not being hit to be what made defenders (empaths, presumably) feel unwanted in the high-end game, if I had to take a guess as to why defense is getting a global, ah, adjustment downwards, in Update 5.


Well, if everyone is hit more often, you will probably get your wish - healers get more of a workout with the healing powers throughout the game - and teams that can't find a healer will have to work harder to find one, or do without.


Back to Stealth suppression and one of my major peeves with this update. Having it so that if you're hit or hit anyone -- INCLUDING with an -agro/perception power like Smoke, Smoke Grenade, or Flash Arrow - *instantly* drops all stealth powers you have - often before the -agro/-perception of the power kicks in. So in trying to make it so the mobs can't see you - they instantly see you if you were too close to begin with?

Does that make ANY sense at all? It really doesn't to me.

I would ask that you reconsider AT LEAST having -agro powers ... NOT CAUSE YOU TO BE SIGHT AGRO'D by the mobs by simply activating the power. That's just plain not fun.

It forces me to be EXTREMELY cautious about having all mobs Smoked, PLUS remember to wait at least 10 seconds to have my "basic" stealth kick back in, whenever I toss a Smoke Grenade. It's irritating and breaks immersion.

$.02

Well, actually, you're not going against the grain per se. Your thinking is right in line with the no-attacks-empath playstyle, which is quite common in fact on the forums.

At early levels, yes, a defender trying to attack more than heal, particularly an emp, will have problems.

After a while, though, that usually clears itself up - particularly as defenses from everyone else mature.

The prevailing forum thought for months WAS to suggest that an empath with any secondary powers was doing their teams a disservice.

And what more balanced empaths like Hobo Healer and LadyMage try to say is that defenders who have a few slotted attacks are NOT necessarily doing their teams a disservice, and in fact, can help their groups a lot by attacking every so often.

Say, Short Circuit 6-slotted for drain, or Tenebrous Tentacles and Dark Pit for a pseudo-hold.

Or indeed, if you 6-slot an attack power, you don't do terrible damage. Funny thing, that.

Heck - way back when, maybe a month into live, I only even started my kin/dark because I saw how useful an empath with Moonbeam (for pulling, a self-heal is not a bad choice when drawing agro) and Tenebrous Tentacles was on a TF with my kat/regen scrapper (then around 18)... after the tank and two blasters didn't return from a hiatus when we all got tired of the TF.

Look - if you like it, that's all that matters, but... there are some choices you made in there that I think you could trim without any problems at all, even if you don't want to have anything to do with dealing with mobs at all.

For instance - if you don't use Air Superiority at all, why not Hover? That seems very strange to me. If you at least have it as, say, your Autoattack for some personal defense (mobs on their butts aren't hitting you), that's one thing, if you have it as a stepping stone to Fly, um... Hover would be far more valuable to you as a melee avoidance power. Fly costs a TON, Hover is dirt cheap to run. If you tend to run Fly in combat, that's probably the reason you...

... put 6 end reductions into Assault. You need, at best, one end reducer, and frankly, IMO, you'd be better off with any other power than Assault. It adds less damage than an enraged. After 22, most builds just don't benefit very much unless you run with 3 or 4 others who also run Assault.

Personally, I'd have not taken Assault. Similarly, Vengeance is a nice buff, but... shrug.

Plus, Gloom (which you don't ever use) rather than Absorb Pain? Seems odd to me. Even one slotted, Absorb Pain would provide you more value than Gloom if you never use it.

You say you draw agro. You're drawing agro from ranged mobs because they can see you.

Having Hasten and Superspeed (SS for the stealth effect) would make your powers recharge faster, and give you a bit of stealth to boot.

SS, even one slotted, is probably faster than using Fly in combat, although if you don't have any toons with it, may take some time to get used to.

Since you are at the epic levels, I would submit that you could swap out the Psy pool for the Energy pool, drop Stamina (!!), pick up Hasten and Superspeed, pick up Conserve Power, and come out *far ahead* on your energy useage. Conserve Power is tremendous, and you could cycle that and Recovery Aura, and be vastly ahead of where you were on endurance usage with Stamina alone, when RA wasn't up. CP is a lot better than Stamina when its up, in my experience.

Edit: Admittedly, if you exemp, you are at a disadvantage. That would have you keeping Stamina. But I do think you might be better off dropping the Leadership pool - and you have Recall Friend to do rezzes, right? So every 2 minutes, you can Rez someone? I think I might drop that, if it were me. Hasten/Superspeed would help a lot more than Recall Friend. Drop Recall and Assault, and there's your Hasten/Superspeed, and you get to keep Stamina.

If you have Recall Friend to cart everyone to missions, well, that's your call, of course.


So, to recap, what *I* would do if I were you: drop Gloom, pick up Absorb Pain. Drop the fitness pool, that's three powers, and pick up Hasten/Superspeed (net gain: one power and no slots). Drop Psy pool, pick up Conserve Power. As long as you are at least 43, you could fully slot CP for recharge, and it would have 60 second downtime for 90 second uptime. You'd have a full blue bar at all times between that and Recovery Aura.

Exemping, of course, that probably won't cut it, but ... oh well, can't have everything I guess.

Drop 5 slots from Assault, put them in Fortitude (season to taste). Maybe 6 recharges. That way, you could keep Fort up on about *4* toons at a time. Or toss more to-hit buffs or +def.

Drop Air Superiority, pick up Hover. Move two slots from Fly to Hover, so that you're not utterly crawling when you use it. Or make a bind to switch back and forth. Fly is crazy-expensive to run at all times.

And, you'll like this. At 44, pick up Powerbuildup. That will add another +100% of effectiveness to your heals, buffs, etc.

If your AP is, say, 1000 points, with Powerbuildup, it would be 2000 - with just one recharge slot in AP. If your 6-slotted Heal Other was, say, 600 (no idea, it's an example), it would go to 800. (base 200 hypothetically, *3 from 6 heal SOs, *4 with PBU running).

Okay, it's only 15 seconds, but those 15 seconds might be very useful to you.

$.02

Even with your good team-support build, I think you have room for improvement in power choice and slotting.

It's unsolicited advice, so ...(shrug).

If nothing else, 5 slots in Assault is massive overkill - switch to Fortitude. Air Sup is useless if you don't use it, switch to Hover. Gloom is useless if you don't use it, get Absorb Pain instead.

If you only changed that much, IMO, your team value would improve.

[ QUOTE ]
I think part of the problem with defenders is everyone expects us to be only used for SUPPORT. On the flip side, you give defenders the ability to damage more and where does that leave the blaster?

[/ QUOTE ]

Got it in one.

Few people expect controllers to "just control, don't buff/debuff/heal"... at least, very few that I've teamed with in game... um... wait... none that I've teamed with in game.

Yet people often express that "in teams, don't blast, your AT's name is 'defender', not 'attacker'" on the boards. Go figure.

Mind you, it should be done judiciously. If the team is about to wipe... unless you can defender-nuke the enemy out of th way... yeah, maybe using a primary power will be a better choice. If the team's doing well... why not blast things? Fights will go faster.

Seems to me like for ANY good player, a very simple rule to remember is... do the most appropriate action at the appropriate time.

A heal is needed? Toss a heal. A debuff is needed? Use it. A buff is needed? Use it. An attack is needed or nothing else needs to be done? Use it.

In my SG play, attacking as a defender was NEVER controversial as long as I *also* did the buff/debuff/heal thing.

Funny how its different on the boards. Of course, that's at decently-high levels, too.

At 10, having a defender attack is often a bad choice, particularly with the need for healing at the low levels, plus, end management pre stamina is very different than post-stamina. At 35... NOT having the defender attack (if I'm the player in question)... seems silly and a meaningless restriction on what is supposed to be a fun activity... as long as the defender is also "doing their job" of using their primary when needed or appropriate.

Actually...

... about Divine Avalanche. It's a great power, buffs melee +def.

What if, just what if, the basic, bread-and-butter blaster powers (burst, power bolt, charged bolts, flares, ice bolt) - FOR BLASTERS ONLY -

... were given a +def of some kind? Maybe 10% for 10 seconds, stackable, and slottable? Flares, of course, could also use an animation time reduction.

Say, +def to melee/ranged attacks? Would still not help against AOEs, and a lot of blasters use those basic powers often (except Flares possibly).

Well, I'd say that some blasters have problems, certainly.

Do I die while soloing? Sure. When I'm not familiar with what particular mobs resist, whether I can two-shot them or not (depending, to a higher degree than for just about any other toon I've ever had, on how fresh my SOs are)... etc.

BUT... I stay in debt a HECK of a lot shorter time than my kinetic defender ever did prior to 35 (when Update 2 came out for respec). And my kat/regen scrapper, who I leveled to 20 before Update 1... you want to talk about debt? Yech.

As to not being able to solo on Invincible...

... well, I don't for Devouring Earth, particularly not Devouring Earth kill-alls -- too many mobs resist my damage types. Those get Rugged. Rikti, I also tend to do on Rugged - too many stuns everywhere. But my goal for this toon was to do all the story arcs, many of which that I missed on other toons, from teaming, or hazard-zone hunting, or whatever else.

But most mobs I do on Unyielding. (Except for the final missions of arcs, which I do on Invincible no matter what, for the xp bonus).

I'll admit that I'll be needing help with some of the late-30s arcs (Nosferatu, Terra, Envoy of Shadows)... but ... I'm not a masochist, I'll probably just recruit a friendly level 50 from my SG (we have probably 30 by now in our 'alt' SG) to help with those...

But some bosses are no trouble at all, for my Trip Mines appear to be fully functional (unlike what some others have reported).

It's a time investment, but I'd rather invest the time to blow up a boss than get debt...

... so I'll lay 9 mines in a grid, lay caltrops, and then Trip Mine / knockback the boss (if they're stationary...) into them... so far, I'm at 100% dead bosses when I use this technique.

That's easy if the boss is standing there, not easy but somewhat doable if they are moving around... not doable at all if they are immune to knockback/down, of course. But that's what luring them into the minefield is for...

Beanbag and Taser (while I have died to Tasering once or twice) are useful, too. I'm hoping to double-stack Cryo Freeze Ray later on, so that I don't have to try to joust-stun bosses.

I am also not useless on teams.

Someone said something about being useless if there's a meleer... I have not found that to be the case.

We did a successful Freak respec last night, fighting up to level 42 foes (I'm 36, our highest teammate was 39, and I believe the tank was sk'd to 38, the grav/rad troller was sk'd to 38, and by the time we hit the reactor building, I sk'd to 38 as well).

Against +6s, yeah, my Full Auto did ticks of 3. Whoop-de-doo. Against +4s, it was up to 11/tick. The entire team fought, and the entire team took down mobs.

I was KO'd *once*. At the last wave, I think because a tank managed to agro on me and whack me.

I can hardly fault our Tanker, who did a great job otherwise, since that was the last wave of four groups of freaks.

HOWEVER... while I was defeated only once... one of the blasters faceplanted 5-8 times all told, ending up with about 75K debt for the exercise.

Now, I run Superspeed + Cloaking Device at all times (except, of course, when stunned or OOE). So possibly, other targets are easier, the blaster wasn't quite as careful about keeping Stealth on...

... which may be a problem right there.

At 35+, sight agro kills squishies, between ranged attacks, ranged AOE, ranged mez, etc etc. All of my defenders, blasters, and controllers get a stealth power sooner or later.

If anything, I think the main problem blasters face is that the agro they generate is more-or-less in line with their OFFENSE, but not at all in line with their DEFENSE.

Although, some things piss mobs off more than others: for most early controllers, using their early-game ranged AOE immobilize (if there's no tanker even at that level) can often mean a quick defeat, and AOE immobilize seems to get as much agro as some ranged AOE damage powers.

So... 500% cap? Sure. I can't meet it except by popping red insps or teaming, so rock.

Maybe put scrappers back to 400%? Don't care as my scrappers, so whatever.

But it's the amount of agro that blaster take that is out of proportion to their ability to survive that agro that really seems like a major problem to me.

Also, mez. 'Nuff said.

Heh. I kinda like to think of myself as a "fear tanker".

But then, I have a dark/elec with Fearsome Stare, and a fire/axe tank.

My spine/dark definitely can't take the same beating as my fire/axe tank (except, of course, vs psi)... but I often find myself 'tanking', although not, per se, necessarily holding/managing agro.

Well.

It's a bit disappointing, but there are enough wolves in the game (striga) already for the Atlas Medallion, so that's fine.

However, given HOW GOOD portal jockey is, I *would* be upset if I couldn't get my accolade because I failed the Shadowhunter mission. Definitely.

My SG has done some of the WW PL thing, we have one guy who played through a blaster to 50, and then got a second account so he could level to the point where he would have fun with alts (and not, so far as I can tell, to sell on ebay).

I don't see anything wrong with that... he learns how to use the toons when he plays them. Big deal.

What I really hate, about ALL timed missions in the game, are that they are on a real-world timer. You have 2 hours, or 10 minutes, or whatever... and some of them are STILL stealth-timed, say, one you get automatically after finishing another.

What I'd REALLY like, what would make me VERY happy as a player, is if timers only applied to logged in time. They do it in WoW, I don't see it as game-breaking if they'd do it in CoH.

You have a one hour timer to get your AV mission done? Well, log out, log in as an alt, and start recruiting! Or save it until your SG is on (I play mornings before work sometimes, when very few people are on... and I hate hate hate getting timed missions then).

That the WW missions are now timed, I don't really care about. People can herd and farm other missions, unless they make ALL missions timed, or just make it so that no tanker/etc can EVER survive more than 10 mobs (which would piss me off as a player, too... and make the respec TF with its final wave of 4 groups impossible to boot).

If they did that, I'd probably just quit, honestly. All timed missions = no fun for me, as I sometimes have to leave, or do other things, or my wife has made dinner, etc etc.

IF they made all missions timed, but put timers on hold while you were offline... eh. That's okay I guess, but I still probably wouldn't like it.

And preventing the resetting of missions? Yeah, so your 4-person team has gone to 8, or your 8-person team has gone to 4... you're SOL, enjoy your debt now. I'd really hate that if it was done across the board.

So - what I want is for timed missions to TIME OUT while you are offline. I think that would be VERY fair to those of us who, y'know, have jobs but still play at odd hours... and don't like to fail missions even though there's no real penalty for doing so.

Heck, I've been playing since day 3 of live, and I didn't know about alt-number for Tray 2...

Third power tray visible! VERY for it. My 50 kinetic has two macro buttons on Tray 2 to switch between trays, and it's very cumbersome.

Shift + # is teammate? Didn't actually know that either, I've just used mouseclicks.

Ctrl + # for third tray? Sure, why not. It'll be a bit more cumbersome, but ...to mangle a quote from Jerry Maguire a little...


"You had me at third visible powertray."

Actually - I tried out TP on test and it was fine for me for now.

I've still got 3 respecs if I go the (probably smarter) status pro route to take care of immob and knockdown. I might pick up Hover later for air mobility, a TP rest break power, and "sorta" knockdown pro (little flip in the air rather than falling on your back).

I did figure out, thanks to good ol' Hero Planner, a way to:

5 slot Dark Embrace, Death Shroud, Spine Burst, Quills, Impale, and 6-slot Stamina, by moving around where I took the powers some.

Ripper's only 2-slotted at 27.

I really like the new build - now I just wish I'd already gotten Murky Cloud - electric freaks hurt without it. Maybe at 30 if I don't go Cloak of Fear.

Definitely a fun build. With Buildup and Spine Burst, I'm like a mini nova scrapper. Let Quills/Death Shroud get them to 2/3 or half, do Spine Burst - dead minions. Even +2s, and sometimes +3s. I like it. A lot.

Lookin' forward to adding Throw Spines to the mix.

Yeah, my fire tank has CJ/SJ/Acro/Hurdle, and my kat/regen scrapper has CJ/SJ/Integ/Swift/Hurdle, so I know the value of Hurdle/Acro full well. Hurdle absolutely rocks for SJ - it's about the value of adding an extra Jump SO to it, and faster to boot - almost as fast as unenhanced SS. It's definitely a good power for a jumper.

My two defenders and blaster have SS, and so does my spine/dark currently. I've been purposefully not using Hasten for a while with my spiner just to see if I can live without it.

With fully slotted Death Shroud and Quills, and slotted-up Buildup, I think I can... except when I'm slowed. (Stupid swarms/council freeze rifles/etc). I'm also so far going no-hasten on my kat/regen... while my fire tank just picked it back up, my kinetic couldn't deal without it, and my dark/elec and ar/dev prefer it. I'm certainly not anti-hasten, but there are so many things to slot on this build, as many if not more than my dark/elec (which is VERY tight on slots).

I have, however, been used to my Superspeed, and (if the test server copy tool will cooperate!), want to see if Swift + Sprint is "fast enough" combat ground movement... it's quite fast for my kat/regen. Health is a given.

I'll adjust to however fast it is, I just want to see if I prefer Hurdle for the CJ/SJ boost, or would prefer Sprint + Swift for this toon.

CJ/SJ/Acro certainly is the smart choice for status pro, I'll agree with that... the only reason I'm going to at least try TP on test is that, other than a Warshade, I don't have a toon with it... and the guy who posted in this thread about it made me think "huh, that would be different and interesting".

With about 5 active alts that I cycle regularly... different and interesting is good... and besides, I'm burning the free respec to do this one... I have 3 more I can do.

And with Impale and TP, Immobilization is less of a problem than it would be for some - IIRC you can TP while Immobilized. Knockdown will definitely get to me though - but at least Quills and Death Shroud work even when knocked down.

The 30s and 40s *are* knockdown fest, though, as my fire tank knows only too well.... I'd only be able to fit Acro in at 35/38, but that opens up some slots.

I had just decided that my spine/dark (now 27, Porcupine Paul on Infinity) was on hold until stacking armors... and what do they go and do?!

Make the armors stack!

*grumble*... now I need to work YET ANOTHER ALT into my play rotation... Nice problem to have since my spine/dark guy is fun.

So, anyway... I'm working on a build that will either Superjump or Teleport, but have no hasten (maybe until later).

I'm even thinking of putting off Dark Regen until 28, and probably picking up Murky at 30, just because there's no reason not to have it now.

1: Lunge, Dark Embrace (5) (damres)
2: Spine Burst (5) acc, endredux, dmg, dmg, dmg
4: Death Shroud (5) acc, endredux, dmg, dmg, dmg
6: Buildup (3) rchg,rchg,rchg
8: Impale (5) acc, dmg, dmg, dmg, dmg
10: Obsidian Shield (endredux)
12: CJ/Recall Friend (maybe)
14: Superjump/TP (maybe)
16: Swift (probably - currently a speedster)
18: Health
20: Stamina (6 duh)
22: Quills (2 at 27 - acc, endredux)
24: Cloak of Darkness (endredux)
26: Ripper (3 slotted at 27) acc, endredux, dmg or acc, dmg, dmg

I did a quick test mission (against even con Sky Raiders), and really had no problems with anything - the 26 Jump Bot went down pretty fast thanks to the boss rollback.

I'll sort-of miss Dark Regen (since it costs SO FREAKING MUCH endurance)... but the plan is to put it back at 28 - and I don't anticipate 27-28 taking all that long.

I'll probably also try Cloak of Fear at 28, just to see what it's like for me - the acc debuff can't hurt... if so, Dark Regen goes back at 30, and I'll get by with Health and greens until then.

I just did a respec to my (long-stalled) 22 katana/regen scrapper last week. This was built - and mostly played - preUpdate 1... long ago, in the before-time. When katana and broadsword had the same animations (yech).

Live build (early build, pre-hero planner):

Slash, Fast Healing
Hack
Quick Recovery
Reconstruction
Slice
Combat Jumping
Buildup
SuperJump
Integration
Whirling Sword
20 - Resilience
22 - Hasten

The consensus at the time was "don't bother with Parry, parry sucks". Remember that this was pre-Update2, so I've used the old names for old times sake.

(I don't remember the slotting here at work, but it's mostly attacks, 6-slotted QR, and I think 6-slotted Reconstruction (3 heal 3 recharge).

Okay - it's not a completely terrible build, in teams, I do good damage ... but I can solo even cons. And that's about it. And it hurts, and I use a ton of inspirations. +2s I need to go insp shopping - 3 damage 3 luck and I'm fine...

So I put together the following build on test:

Current test version:

1 Gambler's Cut (1 acc), Fast Healing (heal)
2 Flashing Steel (1 acc 5 dam)
4 QR (6 recovery)
6 Buildup (2 recharge)
8 Divine Avalanche (1 acc)
10 Reconstruction (3 heal)
12 Combat Jumping (jump or def)
14 SuperJump (jump)
16 Integration (1 end reducer, 2 heal)
18 The Lotus Drops (1 acc 5 dam)
20 Resilience (1 damres)
22 Dull Pain (1 recharge)

- this is at 23.

The build is *amazingly* more powerful ... that is... the things it can kill and survive are much harder - even though the single-target damage isn't that great (DA/GC/FS). It doesn't have Stamina (which isn't needed at all with no Hasten and no IH I found). It doesn't have Hasten.

I can outlast and defeat +3 Tsoo named bosses. Note: outlast *and* defeat. I can fight hordes of even-cons, and kill them in 1 combo of The Lotus Drops and Flashing Steel - without buildup if I get them lined up correctly. With buildup, I can take +1 minions no problem.

(Of course, sky raider captains in TV destroyed me.)

The single-target damage is a problem, but I can outlast any boss - sure, it takes a while, but if I'm soloing - if I want max xp I'll kill hordes of minions - if I want an interesting challenge, I can take on a +3 boss - something I'd never do on live. For single-target I plan on both Soaring Dragon and Golden Dragonfly.

Two main things are making this possible, I believe: the heal change to Integration (huge!), and Divine Avalanche (bigger!).

I've read Verxion's non-typical kat/regen guide, and liked a lot of what I saw.

OTOH - my test build doesn't have either stamina or hasten. Personally, I think with DA/GC/FS/TLD/Soaring Dragon and Golden Dragonfly - I won't "need" hasten to get a good attack chain going. However, the briefly-double-stacking Dull Pain and the multiple stacking of DA ideas are making me rethink doing without Hasten.

I figured without Hasten, I might be able to do without Stamina - but that idea has been quickly shot down. I realize that without Hasten and Stamina, I won't be as efficient as possible... and IH may still be impossible to deal with without Stamina.

Anyway - I've figured out how to work them into my build, even though I think it might be possible to do without both... of course, at the cost of some efficiencies.

Point being - Divine Avalanche is *awesome*. Completely freaking awesome.

Thunderous Blast does damage (at range! not like Blackstar/nova), and has a secondary effect of end drain.

You can't regen end normally for something like 20 seconds, but pop a CAB, fire off Transference on a mob in melee range, and you're back up and running. I do that often.

Or, if you're lucky enough to play with a second kinetic, just have THEM fire off Transference.

Well, for me, there's little more satisfying in this game, well, with this toon anyway, than doing a good Fulcrum buff and nuking a group.

It just doesn't get old.

I'll happily put up with the annoyance of having to retoggle for that kind of power.

Basically, after nuking, I pop a CAB, pop Transference and Transfusion if necessary - and I'm right back in the fight.

The sliver of end stamina provides me is enough to Transference, and that's nice... but do does popping a CAB.

That's me.



I think Quason may miss it, but unless he's used up all his respecs, he can always get it back later. If you don't use a power much, don't take it.

The only argument i might make for keeping it, for a last-ditch "defense" measure when the group agros too much, a nuke - especially a *ranged* nuke like Thunderous Blast - can really save the day, especially if PBU's up and you have a solid fulcrum buff from the current group you're fighting.

...

Total Focus. Yeah, on the boss-killing end, the disorient is great. It's always been frustrating that Dark Pit only disorients minions - but that's the nature of the power. But with Transference alone, I can't always snipe successfully against a boss... if the boss is alone, TF + Transference = very effective sniping, and Moonbeam recharges a lot faster than Total Focus. And while there are debates on the DPS of snipe vs gloom vs dark blast... TF + gloom + Moonbeam > gloom + moonbeam alone.

Now, if OG + DP could disorient bosses... that would rock, and be a point back in favor of /dark.

With our heal, OG is a very safe power to use. Soul Drain + Fulcrum = more consistent damage, and the /dark combo is probably safer, if anything, for nuking than /power.

I think if I do go /dark, the main thing I'd change is 6 recharge in Blackstar. I'm not interested in Dark Consumption, anyway, as Transference fulfills all my endurance needs. Torrent + TT them into a corner, Dark Pit them, run in with OG On, Fulcrum Shift, Soul Drain - nuke.

Quite safe ... unless one of the status mobs isn't disoriented. $%^ sappers.

Well, you were thinking of ditching CJ/SJ/Acro, right Quason?

So put back IR and Hover, there's your extra power slot for Siphon Power.

Technically, I tried three different builds, Syphon. One had power / no hover/CJ/SJ/Acro, one had power / hover, one had dark.

I'm definitely thrown off by hover for regular fighting, as I'm very, very used to superspeed.

Captain Voltaic - I have a dark/elec, and with the exception of Fulcrum Shift, it's going to play pretty similarly. So his playstyle didn't surprise me too much, including being the safest with end drain.

Syphon - definitely seemed to be faster than CV and my toon at arresting the mobs. I felt like I took the longest, even with permahasten. But that's DoT for you. Double-stacking Fulcrum Shift with TT/NF makes for very fast mob-melting.

Bombast - didn't see too much in action, but the whirlwind use was impressive.


I'm definitely still very torn about the two builds to take.

I'm convinced that if you want to smack around bosses better, power mastery is the way to go.

Kin/*/power = boss-killing goodness. Without Total Focus, I just don't feel like I have the DPS to regularly deal with bosses - and I rarely solo missions anymore. However, disorienting minions AND lieuts with DP + OG is great. That's only available to dark secondary, of course. Soul Drain's damage boost - is hard to guage, since you only get the one icon. Of course, since I am used to jumping into melee (aren't we all) to get my buffs... having two damage buffs to fire off rather than just one is not hard to manage at all. The fact that Soul Drain does some damage to the mobs also is just gravy. FS with 4 recharges comes back faster than Soul Drain with 4 recharges... you can't double-stack Soul Drains.

Admittedly I had trouble with a malta group... when one sapper was too far away from the disorient effect... but I was helped by a timely Speed Boost from Captain Voltaic.

Observing Syphon's use of hover to tank, plus FS/SP was definitely quite impressive. I usually try to stay out of melee range of bosses on my live build, and have not bothered to try to tank AVs or giant monsters. For that, people I play with just tend to get a tanker.

And I have a simple, simple workaround for stamina for nuking... I just make sure to carry CABs. Just as for status effects, I carry some disciplines for the few times I solo. It's pretty easy with 20 insp slots to have some CABs available.

Otherwise, I barely use inspirations except maybe for herd-nuking (4 lucks for the win). One of my in-game SG members commented on how little I needed to use inspirations. Unless I fight Malta or nuke, I just don't need them much.

By the way, if you go energy and take Conserve Power - you can definitely do without Stamina. I don't need to change my playstyle with it, as I still fire off Transference every chance I get... the end drain on mobs is too good...

I think I'll still try out 6-slotted PBU and 2-slotted Conserve Power. That would make CP into more of a last-ditch measure, rather than something I use most of the time... but it may prove useful.

I made a quickie supergroup, Kinetic Testers Anonymous - send Syphon3 or Kinetic Barbie3 a tell - that's the build I'm about to respec (if the server stays up long enough to let me).

Well, he's back in the "active accounts" group anyway... since Payens is 50, not like he's got that much to look forward to...

No chance of my fire tanker outleveling my main at this point... after the Update goes live, though, it'll probably be my main for a while... or my spine/dark scrapper, he's really fun at the moment (22, all SO'd up and using spine burst/death shroud/quills for massive AOE destruction).

My kheldian... we'll see.

It'd be neat if we could get Sir Payens.

He's on my home server, Infinity, and he's the kin/en guy.

2 slotting PBU.

I figure I'll use it for the occasional boost, and for nuking.

I really like to nuke, toggle-dropping be damned.

I already have a build like that on test, but for some reason I decided to do without siphon power.

I haven't decided if I'm just going to one-slot Siphon Power (I only use it for AVs anyway these days... Transference is the superior boss debuff and Fulcrum Shift is the superior buff)... or go one acc and 1 recharge.

I rarely solo bosses, although FS + SP + TF + Transference + Moonbeam = not a bad boss killing sequence.

I am going no-stam, but trying out the CJ/SJ/Acro, Stealth, TI, hasten/SS route. With 6-slotted CP for recharge, CP is up 90 seconds, down around 60.



BTW: Picked up Atlas Medallion and Freedom Phalanx. Archmage and Portal Jockey are going to take some work.

On endurance use, particularly since I'm going to bring a no-stam 6-slot CP build tonight (I *think* I'm happy with the slotting... we'll see)...

Combat Jumping costs .08, and provides a defense buff of 5%.

Stealth costs .375, and provides a defense buff of 7.5%.

6 defense buffs in Stealth = 16.5% (from even level SOs, not taking into account ++ SOs here).

5% + 16.5% = 21.5%, end usage is .0586 + .375 for .4336.

Vs 22.5% and .455 if you just put all defbuf in.

If, on the other hand, you switched it and put a def buff in CJ and an end reducer in Stealth, you get the following:

6% + 15% = 21% (or -.5% defense), end usage is .08 + .2745 = .3546
(all from toggle cost calculator).

Net savings by doing this is .08 end, for a reduction in -.5% of defense. Personally, I'm probably going to do it this way going no-stam... but wouldn't do it that way if I had stamina... I'd probably just go all +def.

It probably doesn't matter a whole lot either way, but for me, that .5% loss in defense is worth the .08 end gain. Razor edges, like someone said.


I was surprised at how much getting The Atlas Medallion and Portal Jockey changes the equation though... I don't have any accolades on my kinetic (yet)... should have Freedom Phalanx and Atlas Medallion today... (finally getting around to finding the badges and plaques... all the arrest missions have been done for a while).

A question Syphon - are your defenses such that you rarely get hit now, and thus don't have to heal yourself much?

Or do you still tend to get hit quite a bit, necessitating a lot of use of Transfusion?

I found that, especially pre-respec when I had NO DEFENSES, that Transfusion was my defense. Pretty much my only one. Other than the -acc from my dark attacks, which, of course, I didn't really have anything to compare to.

So I learned to manage my green bar like a hawk.

Once I had Transference, and particularly with permahasten, I simply did the exact same thing with my blue bar.

It took practice, that's for sure. And slotting end reducers in some of my attacks. But y'know... making an attack go from 19 to, what, 14 or so end? That's not a bad tradeoff.

And slotting end reducers in ALL toggles I used.

Sure, it means I have to use Transference pretty much every time it's up, but I would usually do that anyway - as with even one end drain, I can drain an even or +1 mob dry as it is.

I simple run up to a likely mob, Transference, and go on my merry way.. same as I would for green.

All it takes is practice... and I wouldn't necessarily expect an hour or two on the test server would be enough practice.

Huh... now that would be interesting, Quason.

You might just get a tell from Kinetic Barbie(something)... I'm still testing to see what I really want to do.

One reason I spotted your error, Quason - I've been going over and over possible builds for my toon... I've been subbing in the Presence pool for the Epics. Since Lil Pips is apparently out of the game... someone else would have to step up and add the epics, and that won't happen 'til Update 3 hits in any case.