Iceboxer

lolwut?

I think MoldyLunchboxx wins the interweb with the epicness of this thread.

I cry everytime I see him put his knee through Franklin's face.

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whatever bud, I play the AT EVERY day so I know what it does and doesnt do.

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You know what your builds do and don't do.

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Post a build, ...

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this

Look, I'm not FF expert but I understand what concept the OP is trying to do (not that I agree with hit).

I tossed this (incomplete) build together in about 2 mins as a quick (read very quick) example of what kind of def & offense FF/Eng is capable of while maintaining your concept.

Assuming Mid's isn't lying to me, you're looking at soft capped ranged, AoE & Melee def while hovering, a solid ranged attack chain, reasonable melee damage with TF, and solid damage mitigation powers in FB, DF & RB. You've even got solid S/L resist (70% can't be right, is it defender peoples?). You can even drop in an additional AoE attack if needed or wanted. You're also looking at a nice ~30% damage boost with the set bonuses & assault (and I'm sure you can add more with IOs if you take the time to finish the build). The IO's I used are not overly costly.

The only downside I see is it would take time for your build to mature into your concept, but once at lvl 50 and done, you'd have a pretty good IronManlike toon IMO.


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 46 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Force Field
Secondary Power Set: Energy Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Power Bolt -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(3), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Power Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(11), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 4: Force Bolt -- FrcFbk-Dmg/KB(A), FrcFbk-Acc/KB(19), FrcFbk-Rchg/KB(19), FrcFbk-Rchg/EndRdx(21), FrcFbk-Dmg/EndRdx/KB(21), FrcFbk-Rechg%(23)
Level 6: Hover -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(7), Zephyr-ResKB(7)
Level 8: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Power Burst -- Empty(A), Empty(23), Empty(31), Empty(31), Empty(31), Empty(33)
Level 12: Dispersion Bubble -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(13), DefBuff(13), Empty(37), Empty(39), Empty(40)
Level 14: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15), Zephyr-ResKB(15)
Level 16: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Detention Field -- Empty(A), Empty(34)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A), Empty(34), Empty(34)
Level 22: Aim -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(33), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(33), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(36), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(37), GSFC-Build%(37)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(25), DefBuff(25)
Level 26: Repulsion Bomb -- Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(A), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(27), Det'tn-Dmg/Rng(29), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29)
Level 28: Assault -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Tactics -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Boxing -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(40), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(40), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), T'Death-Dam%(43)
Level 35: Tough -- ResDam(A), ResDam(36), ResDam(36), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 38: Weave -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(39), DefBuff(39), EndRdx-I(43)
Level 41: Power Build Up -- Empty(A), Empty(42), Empty(42)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ResDam(45), ResDam(45), ResDam(45), EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Total Focus -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(48), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(48), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), T'Death-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Conserve Power -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
------------

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This could be so epic....or so epic fail. Can't wait to see the details!

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Explain how you think it could fail?
They're adding new animations...they're not changing anything.
There is no way this can fail.

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That's true. What I really should say is it could be great or nothing depending on the details.

I'm just in the "I hate KO blow animation camp" and the thought of having the option to improve it is just so cool, that the thought of the alternative being something I like less, just makes me sad.

But wow, I made like 400 assumptions there so I'll just need to sit back and "wait and see". Overall, I'm pretty excited about this.

God one, but I still like Butterbean's KO of Johnny Knoxville in Jack@@s

This could be so epic....or so epic fail. Can't wait to see the details!

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Twilightphoenix:

An interesting build. Nifty demo. I'll point out, however, that the character has only 10-12% Defense, no resistance and half the damage output of the Scrapper without Criticals.
As I say, mine is something of a concept build, being an Iron Man homage, so the need for some significant melee ability had to be considered. It may not be optimal, but I consider it a flaw in the class if you have to build one specific way to be viable.


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This just isn't a fair comment. Taking a buff/debuff / ranged AT and selecting only 1 primary power, and a 1 or 2 secondary powers and then filling that with melee pool powers and attempt to make them a def/melee/ranged build just won't work the way it does in your head. You want a "tank-mage" i.e. ironman and are mad the game won't let you.

Use forcebolt and det field as damage mitigation powers, use your 3 ranged attacks to keep them in perma knockdown. You may have less "defense" than a scrapper but with the amount of damage mitigation in your primary and 2ndary, you should be fine.

If you don't like that answer, then I suggest car racing with flat tires, or target practice with a blindfold, cause that's pretty much what you're trying to do with all those pool powers.

Hehe, that's like a RL bitter ice blast to the face!

You're talking about a lvl 22 bubble/eng defender with unslotted dispersion bubble, tough!?, and no powerburst. I'd say it's time you posted your build cause I think the issue is closer to your build/tactics than it is a broken AT.

I mean hey, this guy isn't having any problem doing stuff with his bubble defender that Scrappers, Tanks, Warshades, Blasters, Brutes, Stalkers and Controllers have done (to name a few).

You're using a solo test to compare the the *best solo AT to the *best team AT and are wondering why you're getting the those results?

Shouldn't you also test how effective a FF'er is on a 8 person team vs the scrapper too, to be, like, fair?

*take "best" with a grain of salt here.

agreed; I jumped off my couch when it landed.

MC, I want the 10 mins of my life back I just spent watching your avatar. Epic KO.

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It's easier to add offense to a tanker than it is to add defense to a scrapper IMO.

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Can you elaborate? This is the opposite of my thinking so I'm interested to know where you're coming from.

When I look at the IOs and pool powers out there, I dunno, seems easier to add damage mitigation to a scrapper than damage to a tanker.

On a tank...

You are healed by the Panacea effect for 64.58 points of healing.

Uplift grants you 7.5 points of endurance with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance!
You grant Uplift an infusion of 7.5 endurance!

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I'm guessing you have a tiny fraction of a second gap on Knockout Blow, something in the 1/20th of a second range. Nothing you'd notice, and nothing that will make a practical difference on DPS.

So yeah, I think it's Rage vs. +damage. My calculations say a 70 second rage cycle averages about 126% damage enhancement, and an 80 second rage cycle averages about 110% damage enhancement. Those are probably very close to what we're seeing. So overly simplifying a bit, my attacks average 100% base + 100% enhancement + 126% Rage + 6% bonus = 332% damage, while yours average 100% base + 100% enhancement + 110% Rage + 29% bonus = 339% damage. So it looks like your approach worked out slightly better, with 339%/332% - 100% = 2% better DPS. Yours may fall behind again because of the slightly lower DPS attacks, but the two are very very close.

I'm thinking a hybrid or just your approach but with Ice Mastery attacks might be best at this point, but I don't think I'll bother fiddling with the build at this point. I'm just trying to get a decent comparison. That we're using very similar chains at very similar recharge producing very similar DPS makes me confident that the numbers are good enough for a comparison to other primaries, which is mostly what we're after.

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/agreed. We seem to be discusion very small differences. Thanks for the help.

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The reason you're not seeing many procs is that I'm trying to get endurance consumption down to the point of sustainability, and despite all the effort, it's still not quite there. It's one thing to put out a lot of DPS. It's another thing to do so for the long duration of a tank vs. AV fight. Now, blues could definitely take up some of the slack, but for scrappers, when we talk about AV soloing builds, we usually mean “without temps or inspirations” since its pretty easy to, say, soft cap defense when you're chugging purples.


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Yep, I see where you're coming from. My slotting is not that endurance friendly as I have the advantage of QR in my build. But even with that, I have to pick and choose which toggles I need to really make blue mgt easy.

And don't get me wrong, I was just tossing out what I did as "food for thought", no really as criticism. But with different secondary, some of it breaks down.

And as far as AV's go, I may be a tanker at heart, but when it comes to AV soloing, the little I've done, has been by the scrapper rules.

As for +damage vs +recharge, that's a really good question....

Your build has a .1 sec better rechage on KO blow, but a 9 second better rechrage on rage. So for 10 seconds every 70 seconds, you have 80% better damage, but I'd have 29-6=23% better all the time? How does that compare? That's the real question right?

(don't mean to de-rail this thread too much, but with rage stacking, this +dam vs. +recharge hurts my brain a bit)

Guess would be the 2nd one is a place holder for the PvP +def one.

I'm watching....should be a good one.

Got the same as you, only, as bad as I want Mir to win, I can't see it happening.

I took a slightly different approach with my will/SS.

My basic chain is KOBlow->Hay->Box->Jab->Hay->Boxing. I say "basic" because things get tweaked a little bit when I need to fire hasten and rage. And I thnk I have 1 cycle through when hasten is down that I need to add another boxing in there.

I ended up with this chain for 3 main reasons...I wanted to keep my "theme" of the "super strength" type guy w/out going into the shooting lazer beams out of my head (or trowing fiah) and I, like Werner, dropped punch to save a power and it turned out, the 1 secondish animations of jab and boxing allowed me to chain better. I also wanted to do it with my PvE build, a build that still has hurl, footstomp, stuff that's totally worthless in AV fights, but fun as hell in PvE.

To pump up my DPS I kinda went old school buzz saw with Boxing and added 3 damage procs and 1 or 2 (can't remember off the top of my head) in jab. I also went for +damage in the build (ending up with +29%).

Anyway, this puts my dps somewhere above basic AV regen (I've taken out a handfull of the basic ones, slowly) and below that of a Pylon.

Anyway, I say all this cause I don't see any procs in boxing and I'm curious what you think of them in this applicaiton.

EDIT: You've got 30% more global recharge than me so that will change things, not sure how yet.

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I saw it today. Too damn long. Ridiculous story, and I don't mean in a good way. The animations and special effects were top notch of course, but there was too much clutter to truly appreciate it. Too many explosions and/or cliche action sequences. We get it Micheal Bay, your Pen Is Huge. The Decepticons literally saved this movie for me. Oh that sniveling Starscream.

C-


At least I didn't have to pay for the ticket. Happy Birthday to Quark.

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This hit's it on the head for me, only I did have to pay....for 2

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I love what KO blow does, I hate how it looks doing it.

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It could stand to have a leg drop added to the animation after the baddie hits the deck.

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lol

I love what KO blow does, I hate how it looks doing it.

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The two best tanker attack powersets for the task are, in my opinion, fire melee and dark melee. The others don't seem to come close. Ideally, you also want damage boosts from your primary. Shield is your best bet if you keep foes around to increase your damage output with AaO. Note DM also benefits from fodder with Soul Drain, hence I believe Shield/DM is the ideal pairing for DM.

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Any opinions on Invul/SS? True... all smashing from SS, BUT SS has Rage, with a 2 minute, 80% dam boost (as opposed to 10 seconds for other secondaries). Couple that with 3 min of unstoppable (goodbye endurance worries, hello damage res caps in everything but psionic), Hasten (to keep your somewhat sup-par attack chain rockin'), and attacks slotted for big dam and maybe recharge (to keep that knockout blow coming back)...

No personal experience with it, but it SOUNDS nice, as long as you can drop the AV in 2 min

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I've had limited sucess with AVs on my will/ss, but they take far longer than 2 or 3 mins.