ICF_Zombra

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Hi there. I don't actually have anything constructive to add to this topic. I just dropped in to make fun of everyone who posted here, because this thread is, well, getting kind of long.

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Thanks for dropping by! NERD!!

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Also, I once witnessed a fist fight over whether or not Ripley could wield a lightsaber.

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I love this.

Eh, you see people in public talking passionately about sports teams, or celebrity weddings, or model airplanes, or American Idol, or god knows what all. People the world over have all kinds of ridiculous, shallow, "meaningless" interests.

The people you saw had an interest in gaming, and it's something they had in common and could share conversation about. Maybe they could have talked about politics, or building suspension bridges, or brushing roses against their cheeks or the beauty in the eyes of a laughing child, or something equally Real and Significant. Personally, I find it really difficult to share Real and Significant interests in public, because my social groups aren't constructed around those subjects. They're generally constructed around the leisure activities we share in common, the pastimes we choose to pursue when not earning a living, because a personality type drawn to a certain kind of activity will naturally get along well with others of that same type.

In other words, MMO gamers can get along well with other MMO gamers, and when they hang out IRL, it's a natural topic of conversation. The only reason not to talk about it would be Geek Shame, which is thankfully a form of guilt that "nerd culture" has been able to move beyond in recent years. (Most of us, anyway ... sounds like you're still harboring a hefty burden of shame ... just let it go.)

Good grief, that was fast!

I lolled.

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avoiding Caves and Oranbega

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Guilty.

Hey, not because they're harder! Because they're more tedious. Let the police squads go through and map that crap.

Dammit Jim, I'm a superhero, not a cartographer.

OK, OK, end threadjack.

Wow, do people really not make Science characters because they're scared of the Vahzilok? Wow. Just wow.

Ahem, sorry. Back to the thread.

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I suspect though that many people are basing their impressions on the current level 1 to 15 restriction rather than on what goes on BEYOND level 15. I got up into the mid 30s during the closed beta and the game at level 20+ is wildly different and a heck of a lot more fun than it is in the level 15 and below. There's also a ton more story there in comparison too.

It's basically set up such that you get a taste of things to come and want more. Then when you choose to get more, you find it in spades and the cycle repeats.

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FYI, you are seriously turning me off with this particular line. The words of a good friend of mine keep ringing in my head ... just level up to level X and then the game really gets fun. He tried to get me to stick it out to the high level game in EQ. He tried to get me to stick it out for the end game in WoW. Other games too. "You'll have fun later" is apparently a great sales pitch for a certain type of customer (like my friend). All I can see is "We want to stretch out your fun over thousands of hours to keep your subscription dollar". Give me a game that is fun from start to finish plzkthx.

No offense, and your enthusiasm is appreciated. Keep trying if you like.

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My main issue with the fantasy genre is that it's so horrible over done by now.

Which is funny. I've always loved the fantasy genre. 10 (or so) years ago, it was a horribly neglected genre. There were perhaps a few games. And the only movie anyone could remember was Willow (or Dragonheart it you didn't mind risking getting beat up).

At some point, all that got turned on its head. And it was great, at first. But it's really getting old by now.

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Yeah, good point. I remember being a young D&D nerd and getting excited any time ANY movie came out that had a dragon or an elf in it. Actually I do remember some time ago when more started coming out and I said to myself, "You know, a lot of this stuff is crap, and really not worth seeing." Not that the genre is more or less crappy than any other; it's just that a certain percentage of any art produced is going to be crap. I like cartoons, but a lot of cartoons are crap. I like punk rock, but a lot of punk bands are crap. I was starved for anything D&Dish as a kid, so I couldn't afford to exercise a little judgement as to whether a given movie or game was crap.

It was the same deal in the early days of 3D MMOs. EverQuest was crap, but without any peers to compare it to, I couldn't really make that judgement. The 3D MMO is a really great idea, so I played many many hours of the only one available. Nowadays we can pick and choose between hundreds of them, so the cream will rise to the top.

I realize I kinda got off the tracks of the fantasy genre here. Sorry. Where was I trying to go with that? Oh yeah. I don't consider fantasy to really truly be overdone. It IS everywhere nowadays, and you can't swing a dead cat etc. But I no longer try every fantasy game just because it's a fantasy game, or see every fantasy movie just because it's a fantasy movie. I try to pick and choose the actual quality productions. So I'm not sick of the genre at all. YMMV.

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I don't understand the point of view many people have that they can afford to buy new games but can't afford to overlap subscriptions EVER. It is like they are being unfaithful to their wife or something.

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If it helps, from my perspective it just feels kinda wasteful to pay for subs to two games that have basically the same idiom. If I want to spend a few hours battling stuff with a single character from a third-person perspective in order to level up and gain power, I am basically going to be playing the same type of game whether it is Co*, EQ, WoW, SWG, or whatever. No, they're not the same game, and there are significant differences, but if I want that fix, I may as well just get it from my favorite of that game type.

I guess it just feels like buying tickets to two movies that are playing at the same time. If I get bored with the one movie, I can go into the other auditorium and watch the other one for a while, but why not just pick a movie and stick with it for half the price?

When I buy another MMO, it's because I'm getting bored with the first one and want to try something else for a while, or because a new game is released that looks like it might be better. If I like the new game, I will stick with it until I get bored there, then either go back to the old one if it sounds fun again or look for another new one. I did exactly that with WoW soon after it came out. Actually I stayed subbed to both for like a month before realizing that I just wasn't playing them both. Then I dropped Co* for a few months until WoW's shorcomings became clear and I realized how much more fun Co* was.

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I can run from a certain Bridge between talk folks and halflings to the main Tall Folk town and do so in under 10 minutes. That's one of the longest paths in the unnamed MMO and he's grossly exaggerating how slow it is.

Then again, he also didn't mention that you have fast travel available between major cities and a somewhat slower mount travel from town to town.

I also suppose he failed to mention that other forms of teleportation ARE available, just not at the level restricted section the unnamed MMO is at right now until it goes Live.

The bad part is... no one will listen to the facts I've posted and will only remember the untrue negatives the OP stated.

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I'm listening! That's interesting. If travel isn't actually much worse than in Co*, then way to go, developers of that game! Sounds like camping is still an issue, but I'm willing to accept that the old time rotting carcass "travel problem" isn't actually all that bad in the new game. I'm still not especially eager to try it, at least until I hear about other features that will make me like it more than Co* ... and I guess this might not be the appropriate place to talk it way up, but feel free to PM me or post a link to some good resources.

In any case, it's good to hear that another developer has made some progress out of the mire of the Bad Old Ideas.

Also, a 'response' to no one in particular ... I see a few slams here and there against the fantasy genre. I feel like I should speak up for it a little, it is a great genre, very engaging, it sparks my imagination a lot. If there was a fantasy game that gave me incredible character customization, had a sidekicking system or something similar to allow me to actually play with my friends regardless of level, enabled a primarily soloing playstyle, and avoided all the boring behavior (such as endless hours of walking) that fantasy MMOs all seem to have, I would check it out with high hopes.

Also, a couple people misread Arcanaville's post ... go back and look again. She never said that Fun should be erased and Balance and Sanity put in its place. She said that whatever is written right under Fun should be erased and Balance and Sanity put in its place.

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Then find a copy of my Open Letter to Cryptic

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I need better training in the ways of search-fu, apparently.

[EDIT:] Aha. Evidently it got pruned. Lame. Original text posted anywhere else?

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Blacksmith: Thieves? Oh, no! The caravan tipped over into the river and frogs ate my ore. You should go out by the river and start killing giant frogs. Some of them should have my ore.

Me: Say what now?!?

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I love you Sam. Best laugh I've had all morning.

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The slow plodding pace of the new unnamed MMO came as a horrific shock where suddenly I'm walking for 10 minutes to do a 2 minute quest.

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I just need to take a second to say ... what the F. Words cannot do justice to my amazement that developers are still using this ... rotting donkey carcass smeared with rancid vomit ... of a gaming idiom.

Great posts Euler.

In MMORPGs? A thousand times no.

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I have to agree. Hertz's example was top-notch.

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The funny thing is, I just reread it and the numbers are wrong. Super Burger and Electric Mayonnaise should start with 25 hit points, not 100.

Thank you Hertz! Your simple and colorful example made things very clear. I love Arcanaville, but my eyes tend to blur when reading her posts ... no offense, Arcanaville. If it's any consolation, the eye blurring is quickly followed up with, "I love Arcanaville because her numbers are always right, so I trust whatever premise she concludes with ..."

Thanks, _Castle_. Very interesting to hear your take on it, and it looks like your ideal system would be cool. Individual powers would be tough, and more buffs would be significant without spiraling off into uber. I like "force adders" more than "force multipliers" ...

I don't know. I'm kind of annoyed by the Buffing Is King theme of Co*. I'm annoyed that Stone Brute + 7 Corruptors is head and shoulders above every other villain team ever. I don't like hearing about 8-Defender teams watching AVs melt in seconds before their eyes. Then again, I don't actually participate in these ultra teams, so maybe all I've heard is a bunch of hogwash.

Diminishing returns makes sense to me, something like 100% of the largest buff of a given attribute, 50% of the 2nd largest, 25% of the 3rd largest, etc.

I don't see it as a big deal though.

OK, I lolled.

Hairstyle update ... I just got a read receipt for the PM I sent to Positron about Flip, Straight, and Wedge two months ago. I don't expect a reply, but heck, maybe he actually read it!

Will my Peacebringer and Defender get their defining hairstyles back? Stay tuned ...

I like the idea.

I'd want to see it in addition to the current powers structure; not as an alternative to existing pools. Some powerset combos are very slot-unforgiving - why should these characters have less "background" than others?

I agree with Crawler that Merchant is ... to put it bluntly ... bad. Anything that incentivizes switching alts to maximize profit = sucks. Muling is at a minimum in Co*; please please PLEASE don't give higher profits to people who mule.

Good luck. I wonder how similar this type of thing is to the old skills system that got scrapped.

Don't forget a skill somewhere in there for detecting enemies ... i.e. finding that last mob in Defeat Alls.

WOW. I wish I could do justice to this story with my comments ... but I can't, so, just ... wow. I love a good story, and this, my friend, is a good story. Who would have thought from the first post that it would turn into a love story?

But wait! The Steel Rook isn't married. You look at the first post and see a grim, determined, and alienated man, doing the work that needs to be done. I sense impending tragedy ... but in what form? A simplistic "they took my girl from me" revenge story? The depressing "times change, people change" of romantic betrayal down the road? Some way-out event explaining the drastic change that justifies the creation of Dr. Emma as an evil Robotics MM? Or am I way off base? Is Mrs. Emma Johnson simply not represented in game because she has no reason to be?

Tension is building beautifully, and I look forward to the next installment. You've certainly achieved your goal of giving Steel Rook a bit more depth than "some AR/Dev who looks like the Fallout armor guy".