I Burnt The Toast
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Posts
1204 -
Joined
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hehehe
Quote:Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Dont worry, word on the street is that Plan Z is on the way.... -
I would have left if it were placed in maintenance mode. All my friends have left because that's basically what CoH is from 8/31-11/30 and they had no interest in a game not advancing. Most of them are in GW2 but I just don't find it very interesting; pretty environment but not my cup of tea overall. I even bought the Premium version with the level 30 pet etc and the highest toon I have is a lvl 9 LOL.
Quote:Originally Posted by Another_Fan
You see this is where we differ. I have plenty against NCsoft. If they had of handled this differently (roll out I24, the superpacks, put the game into maintenance mode and get somebody in who could properly focus on keeping the game going and maybe actually growing it out of maintenance mode), I would harbor no ill will towards them. I likely would have bought GW2 to fill in the gap.
They failed. -
Meh I looked for another game: GW2, DCUO, CO, SWTOR but none of them held my interest at all. So for now I will just wait and see if any new MMO comes out that may interest me. I have other things I can do to pass my time until then. I loved CoH but I have other hobbies I can focus more on. If/When a new MMO comes out that I like I will give it a try. If people can't find another game hopefully they can find some other hobbies to pass their time; who knows they may actually enjoy it more than CoH. I recently started working on music mixing and find that quite satisfying and a lot of fun.
Quote:Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
This. Exactly this.
Also, don't forget:
5. Just find another game. Just because CoH is the only MMO you've ever found that does things in a way you enjoy doesn't mean you can't just instantly replace it with another game.
It's like they're trying to convince people that, sure, you can't have any chocolate cake anymore, but you can eat all the poop you want. They're the same color, so they must be the same thing, right? And don't complain to the company that used to make the chocolate cake, because it's their right to make you eat poop.
... I want my cake back. -
I have been called a robot before - it was by my Ex-husband and he was overly emotional and irrational. Silly humans.
Quote:Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Unbelievable.
A thread where a group of robots are telling humans to stop being humans.
Maybe you should just try saying EXTERMINATE over and over again. -
You did not OWN anything in CoH - you rented it. You were given a 90 day notice that you could no longer RENT the product from the true owner: NCSoft. If they choose not to sell their property; that is their choice - they have their reasons and are in no way obligated to make anyone else aware of those reasons as it is part of their business. Companies make decisions every day that customers have no right to know WHY that decision was made. It is not your company..it is not your product. We were/are customers and if we don't like their methods we don't have to buy their products. I for one have nothing against NCSoft as they are the ones who made CoH playable for years. I am grateful that they gave a niche game a chance when others did not.
Quote:Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
ok, lets recap:
1. Liking stuff and being upset when it gets snatched away from you for no reason is not only wrong, but stupid. [And we were never given a real reason, so dont start about that.]
2. Morality is idiotic. Only fools think that others should behave by moral norms. Corporations are people too, as we are oft' reminded here in the States, and so: ditto.
3. It is wrong to be upset when someone else takes your stuff with no warning, and then refuses to give it back when asked politely. Refuses to give it back, when offered money! Wow.
4. Hell, emotion, PERIOD is wrong and is the province of fools.
Some of you must be a real hoot in real life. Jaysus. -
Lol
+1
Quote:Originally Posted by that_ninja
an excellent example of my point. -
Once i24 hit I had planned on completing my blaster fire/dev (I Got Chutzpah) and was going to work on my stalker (MA/Nin - I Do Kung Fu). Sadly my blaster is sitting at level 38 and my stalker lvl 2.
Quote:Originally Posted by JayboH
Yeah that seems to be a trend too - Stalkers benefited a lot with those changes. -
If you are going to insult me please do it so the word filter doesn't *** it out Blunt *** could be many things, but I doubt you called me a f.a.g
Or maybe you did
Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Save, maybe that it should inform you that being a blunt *** is counterproductive in some instances. -
I honestly believe there is no way CoH could have sunsetted where people would not have been screaming and threatening NCSoft for months.
Quote:Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
In this case I dont think the end result would have changed one single bit. Still would of been protests, still angry people, still devs out of a job, and etc. So if the end result will be the same all that is left is to chose the best way to get it done. Since the i24 and probably the issue after that probably began long time ago, I wouldnt be surprised if early March or prior late last year, then that would have been a factor.
If they just halted production... well they kind of did at the same time of shutting down, just in the last steps of production.
I really think that they picked a perfect time line. If they would of announced it early, players would have jumped ship, still would have the angry people, even though they probably would have created and or nit picked a reason to be angry if it wasnt for the same reasons now, paragon studios probably would start losing employees. If you think of the potential effects of if they announced it earlier, it probably would be worse off than it is now. We have i24 beta. If it was announced earlier, I would imagine that with the devs finding new jobs and or just leaving, then there would have been delays and thus by this time it probably wouldnt even be on beta and thus we wouldnt even been able to get the glimpse we have now. And guess what, that would make the angry players more angry again now they would be angry about i24 not being on beta. And within that time, i24 slowdowns and less devs and employees, more players would leave. Assuming that billing have continued say in June and the announcement made in March, then that would be even less money. Then while the second announcement they made in actuality stated they confirmed the shutdown, if they would have announced the shutdown earlier, the game may have been costing them money and they have to shut down earlier than expected and thus instead of orignal date of Nov. 30th, lights out end up being June 30th. And thus the same reaction. Different day same reaction. Just for example. One may ask of if they announced it earlier and they lose money isnt they losing money now? Maybe, but there is a huge difference between losing money for 90 days and 180 days. If you had to lose money, which one would you choose? 90 days or 180 days? I would pick the 90 days thank you very much. -
If you don't like what I am saying you have the choice of ignoring me; that is what you can control. If you don't want to place me on ignore; that is your choice. You telling me; repeatedly, to stop voicing my opinion is ineffective. If I have something to say I am going to say it irregardless of whether you approve or disapprove of it. If others do not like what I have to say; doesn't bother me and is not my problem.
CoH has been a part of my life for over 7 years. You will clearly see I have said it numerous times: I loved CoH. It was/is the only game I have ever played more than a day or two. I'm not on here saying CoH is a POS so who cares. I am not on here telling people they are stupid for playing. Heck I haven't even called people stupid because of their emotions, but... I have told people their positions are blurred by their emotions and illogical. I have told people their Anti-NCsoft smear campaigns are immature. I have tried to bring some logic and common sense into conversations rife with misinformation and emotional hogwash.
These are my boards just as much as they are yours...so maybe instead of telling me how to spend my last remaining days of CoH you should just ignore me if it truly bothers you THAT much.
And no I am not offended by your post. You have a right to your opinions. What you or "Joe Blow" thinks about me is irrelevant, not because I don't think you are good people...but because I do not know you; you are not a part of my life. I am not so emotionally dependent that an anonymous person's view of me matters. I have very thick skin due to my profession and upbringing. You try growing up the only Asian gay guy in a small town in Michigan LOL! I work in a prison full of murderers and rapists...so not much bothers me.
Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Sorry that not everyone has your level of "clarity" on this.
This has been a part of people's lives for nearly a decade.
And the crew at Paragon has been SUPERB at establishing an emotional, community connection with its player base.
So pardon them if they're upset to the point of outrage.
But please understand, the whole "I'm above it so you're an idiot." posture, even if that's not how you intended it to come out, simply rings hollow and reeks of bridge-base dweller.
If you don't like how people are reacting? Fine! Make your point and move on. Coming back over and over and over to grind people's faces in it?
This shows that the people you're arguing with aren't the ONLY ones with an emotional investment in here someplace.
And IBTT, this isn't directed solely at you. So don't be totally offended (well, a bit of mild taking-of-offense should be a given) at what I'm saying.
Better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
This applies to all sides in this little debate. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Thus saving them from having quite so many refunds to give out. -
..just stares..
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Sure, but a lot of companies do things they shouldn't do and regret it later.
Halting production on i24 etc would have also caused a lot of people to leave the game the second such production stopped. I would have left CoH had it went into a maintenance mode. Halting production tells people the game is dying and people would have jumped ship mighty quick.
Quote:Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Shouldn't they have halted development work on I24 then? Or at least, not let the devs advertise the T9 Tech Knight armor set 3 hours before the shutdown announcement? -
LOL marry me
It's gonna have to be in Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont, New Hampshire, New York, Maine, Maryland, or Washington though.. ok?
Quote:Originally Posted by JayboH
I just read they won that lawsuit against Silicon Knights for stealing the Unreal engine. -
If you want to look for the WHY are they doing it - a little research goes a long way. Research CoH subscription numbers, research revenue, etc etc.... it is not a huge leap to then see that their "realignment" is due to flat revenue and a dwindling player base. Why keep backing something that is dying a slow death. Why continue to back something after you have tried alternate (FREEDOM) methods to infuse more customers/revenue without success. I am surprised CoH wasn't shut down or placed into a maintenance mode 3 years ago (happy it wasn't ..but still surprised). So is it a guess; sure, but it's probably the best guess out there on why a business chose to close down one of it's projects...unless of course you subscribe to the ramblings of conspiracy theorists who have blamed NCSoft for being in Korea and CoH not being their "baby." I have never stated my opinion as fact...more like common sense.
Quote:Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Have they said that's why they decided to close it? If not, the decision itself isn't evidence of that particular motive but rather it's just evidence that they had a reason to close it... and the guess about the motive remains a guess - possibly an educated one based on other evidence aside from the mere decision itself. -
Uhmm no you don't leave people around who can sabotage your product. There is a reason almost all companies have people exit the day of a lay off/firing...because it would be stupid to let them still "mess" with your product and customers. People are WAY too emotional (see these forums for a prime example) and when people/employees get emotional they have the propensity to do damaging things. It is better to not risk it and make firings immediate. Don't have to be a business guru to comprehend this - simple human nature and understandable business practice. I have NEVER worked for a company who laid people off or fired them and let them continue working there; which is why most of these things happen on: Friday.
The IP consists of more than just the code.....Lore.
Quote:Originally Posted by GadgetDon
You don't leave a team of people around who could sabotage the product you're shelving. Riiight.
And as for saving the IP for yourself - they've "saved the IP" of Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, Dragon Runners, and Exteel and it's done nothing but gather dust.
So let's assume in 10 years someone gets the smart idea of saying "hey, let's try that superhero thing again that we totally failed to sell in our main market" and aren't shouted down. CoH was already an old code base now, 10 years from now it'll be ancient, like playing Adventure on an Atari 2600 - and that's assuming we'll still be gaming on desktops and laptops running a version of Windows. The hero and villain groups? Will they still have relevance in 2022?
And when it comes to the value of a brand game, anyone who remembers it will remember it as "oh yeah that game that NCSoft killed".
So NCSoft is trading real money today against a vanishingly small chance it'll be worth money in the future. And that's a smart business decision. It's still probably moot - it's too late for a deal that keeps the servers up without interruption, the devs who know the code are moving on to other jobs, so NCSoft has probably destroyed any value in the IP so there may not be much difference between sell now or shelve it. But selling it as an active division with experience development team and well-thought-of update coming down the line, that's where real money was possible. -
See - emotional.
This is a GAME not something dealing with the real world. I didn't realize that saying they wanted to focus on other projects meant people would be forced to spread lies about their other products or games. They told you why they were closing CoH. People have shown how CoH has slowly been dying. It doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together to see WHY NCsoft did what they did. It just takes the ability to not get all emotional and see it from a less biased viewpoint.
CoH was a great game, but ya know what...it didn't have the numbers to sustain itself. FREEDOM was the last ditch effort to bring some more revenue in..... You can try to make this as emotional as you want, but I am sorry to tell you your emotional distress is of your own making and not NCSofts.
I have nothing against you...heck I even cried at your first video, but there is a time to let things go. NCSoft is not some evil corporation all of a sudden. They are the same business that supported CoH over the years until that support was no longer proving beneficial to them...a simple business decision. I'm sorry you can't/won't see that and hope after Dec 1 you can find something to help you, but a lot of people have stopped...mourned..and moved on. I LOVED CoH... it was the only MMO I played...I will miss it. I do not fault NCSoft for closing it down. I do not fault NCSoft's press release as it it tells me why they did what they did. I will not boycott NCSoft for making a business decision. I do not feel/think I am owed any explanation as I have figured things out for myself and have never "demanded" an explanation from any other company for such things. I am a consumer/customer...if I truly dislike a company it is for more ethical reasons that relate to things that truly affect my life and views (Animal testing for example).
Quote:NCsoft has nobody to blame but themselves for the misinformation, lies, half-truths, etc, with the pathetically minimal amount of information that has been handed out. And what's the alternative? Just accept it? Next time someone shoves my face in the mud, yeah, I'll just sit there and take it, because that will get me way more respect than fighting back against something that every cell of my being knows is wrong.[/QUOTE]Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Because the same BS that went into this business decision is exactly the same BS that goes into driving all sorts of greater destructive forces. The very use of the word business is wielded all the time as a way of minimizing the implications of whatever party A did to party B. It tells business folks that they don't have to think about anything but profit, and that scenario is BAD, whether you're a realist or not.
All the anti NCSoft posts etc do not make CoH seem like a community worth saving IMO; especially when misinformation, lies, half truths, etc are being used as the weapon of choice. It would be different if the opposition to NCSoft wasn't full of hypocrisy and emotional temper tantrums. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Xzero45
It's because you're a snob and horribly venomous with what you say, bro. -
MOST wars are in the name of a God.....or an idea of right and wrong.
Quote:Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
You seem to fail to realize that most wars are ultimately business decisions. Citing human rights or the spread of democracy is just the convenient sugar-coating that gets used to keep the civilians quiet about it. Take the American Civil War. Was slavery a factor? Yes. Was slavery wrong? Yes. But behind all that you had the fact that the South had a free labor class which would make them automatically capable of underselling the North no matter what. Business. Not morality. -
And your statements make it seem like I am some Corporate loving fool... No I am a realist. I don't live my life governed by emotions. I simply fail to see the benefits of arguing using emotions over something like a simple business decision. If ANYONE has a right to be angry at NCSoft it would be the PS staff...after all this decision impacted them way more than you or I. They closed a game...because they wanna focus on other games. Got it. Sucks but I get it. I don't have the time/energy to waste in my life to be angry at a corporation for wanting to maximize their profits. I do not run a bill+ worldwide corporation and have no idea what demands are being placed on them for profits, and getting all emotional over this will not change anything.
All the anti NCSoft posts etc do not make CoH seem like a community worth saving IMO; especially when misinformation, lies, half truths, etc are being used as the weapon of choice. It would be different if the opposition to NCSoft wasn't full of hypocrisy and emotional temper tantrums.
Quote:Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Burnt, I don't totally disagree with everything you just said. Most of it is factual. But your opinion on those facts makes it look like you view capitalism almost like an infallible deity. -
Actually the thread was on topic 100% until this post:
Quote:Oh oops that was you.. post #8 in the DEVS MOVING ON thread.....Originally Posted by shadow35
I keep sporadically checking Hosun Lee's, Melissa Bianco's and Matt Miller's twitters, but nothing yet.
I suspect they're trying to pull something together for a new project although who knows....but if they are, it may take them months longer, even into next year sometime, to fork over an announcement of any sort....
You know, after all this time, I still want to stab the NCSoft powers that be in their collective eye.... My anger over this situation has not resided in the least.
I can't wait until Blade & Soul is ready to launch: I'm going to continually spam-bomb every article and forum post about it that I can possibly get my hands on so that every potential player knows what NCSoft is really like to deal with.
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I don't think it's that NCSoft had no interest in the future of CoH, but rather they were smart enough to see that as it was CoH..had no future. The game was not attracting (enough) new players to offset those leaving. FREEDOM was their attempt to infuse cash into a dying game; but it was too little too late. If you honestly think PS decided on Freedom because it "sounded cool" or some other nonsense you have NO business sense. Freedom was their attempt TO meet the profit quotas as set forth by NCSoft.
In other words: NCSoft had the foresight to see the bigger picture and cut their losses; before they actually became losses. All this boo-hooing just shows that very few people understand what it's like to run a large corporation and are simply running their mouths because their hearts tell them to do so.
Everything NCSoft has done has made complete business sense; firing the devs the day of announcement (check), Refunding what was owed (check), not selling the IP (check)...all smart business moves. You don't leave a team of people around who could sabotage your product. You give customers refunds for what they are owed. You save the IP for yourself in case in 10...15 years you decide to use it again in a new project.
Trying to interject all this emotional BS into a simple business decision doesn't make NCSoft look bad...it just makes you look emotionally unstable. NCSoft gave a reason why they did what they did; people failing to accept that reason is their own issues. I wholeheartedly accept it - they are focusing on different products. When I see people demonizing NCSoft for this decision it doesn't make me hate NCSoft; it makes me feel bad that these people can't grasp the reality of the situation. -
You may wanna check Fansy's posting history here and other forums - every "hope" they bring either gets debunked or simply false-hope/rumors. If I had it in me to ramble on like a crazy person I am sure I could come up with similar snake oil to sell ya.
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It is THEIR product. They shouldn't be forced to wait until it's losing money to do what they want with their product. They have a threshold of what their products SHOULD be making; Paragon knew this threshold. If their products weren't bringing in the profits NCSoft wanted it is their RIGHT as the owner of the product to pull the plug. Stop humanizing a fricking video game already. When something is not meeting it's business goals it is the right of that business to pull the product...which is what NCSoft did.
As evidenced by their decision; CoH was not bringing in the profits NCSoft wanted. It is their product and if they didn't want it to be left to become unprofitable so be it. The main reason people are so up in arms nearly 3 months later can be attributed to a very unhealthy codependency on a video game. You can paint NCSoft as evil etc all you want, but it was their decision to make and they made it based off a lot more information regarding CoH financials than you know or are entitled to know. CoH was not some cash making machine..it was BARELY treading water. No amount of NCSoft bashing can hide the facts: CoH was dying a slow death...NCSoft pulled the plug and put it out of it's misery...that humanizing enough for you to understand?
Maybe in 3 weeks when people wake up; the reality of the situation will finally make some sense to them and they can actually start processing the whole thing instead of clinging to false hopes and the whole AntiNC (Titan) propaganda.
Quote:Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Dumbest phrase ever created by humans, done for no other reason than to trick society into believing that being a business somehow mystically ascends you to a god-like status and makes you accountable to nobody. Everyone is just accustomed to it being that way. Doesn't make it right. It's a kind of free-reign that business never should've had. And this isn't the same kind of thing as intense regulation that some people are whining is evil socialism, communism, or whatever they're calling it now. What happens when people start acting immoral? A law gets passed to discourage such behavior. Why should businesses not have to operate under the same pretense?
Just imagine other activities being given that get-out-of-blame-for-free card.
"It's just war."
"It's just terrorism."
"It's just theft."
Doesn't make sense, does it? Neither does it when applied to business, or any other thing you can dream up.
That's cryptic-speak (no pun intended) for, "We just felt like it." Nope, sorry. When a product is still profitable, that should be good enough for anyone. They weren't losing any sleep over it. It should've been left alone. At least wait until it becomes wasteful. -
