I Burnt The Toast

Originally Posted by Bad_Influence

fix your own behavior before you start making demands, of me or anyone else. I actually feel a little bit sorry for you, too. I have a feeling that in real life you are a rather lonely person.

Originally Posted by Golden Girl

Well, any NCsoft product is a target in the campaign to get them to hand over the IP and server code.

Originally Posted by Feycat

This is probably going to be my last post on this forum, for what it's worth. The atmosphere has become completely poisonous. And the sad part is, the poison that's driving me away is coming from the direction I had the most hope in. So I hope the Titan folks are still reading.

This is what I'm talking about. The fact that the SaveCOH movement is now mostly focused on a boycot NCsoft movement. It's mostly about bashing NCSoft - and by extension, a lot of that focuses on GW2, since it is a very successful (yup, I said it) recent NCSoft product.

But the hypocrisy is frankly staggering.

You hear a lot about how "this is our fifth dead MMO, we've become exceedingly good at it." FIVE.

And yet, all of you felt fine playing COH - until it was YOUR game that got shut down.

And now that YOUR game is being shut down, now suddenly NO ONE should be playing any NCSoft game ever again, and you do your best to get another MMO shut down. I've seen folks literally posting - some of them prominent Titan/SaveCOH/PlanZ people - that the failure of GW2 and Wildstar will be a victory for them, that it will be justice for what happened to COH.

Are you listening to yourselves? You're all bursting with how much it hurt when YOUR game got shut down, and yet you are ACTIVELY working toward getting ANOTHER MMO shut down! You are working toward inflicting the pain you are now suffering on other people - and too bad, they're just collateral damage and should have known better than to trust NCSoft.

Oh, really? If that's the case? SO SHOULD YOU.

If the ArenaNet devs deserve no sympathy and no support - neither did the Paragon devs. And if the GW2 players deserve no sympathy and to be able to play their game in peace - neither did the COH players. Because this is the FIFTH MMO shutdown, right? Is 5 some mystical number? 4 MMOs ago, you were still playing COH and that was fine, but 5 MMOs means that no one else should be playing an NCSoft game without being labelled a traitor and a moron.

Think about it.

I hope Plan Z succeeds, I really do. But I went from being an enthusiastic supporter of all things Titan to making my way out the back door now. I've been playing this game for 8 years. Since i0. I remember when costume slots were added, the fight to get capes in the game, rubberbanding across entire zones. I've been here since the beginning. I'm not some new person who just waltzed in - I'm a veteran, I earned my stripes. And apparently, the fact that I choose to continue to do exactly what all of us were doing until August, I am now a pariah, and people I considered my community are actively working to make sure that what I lost in August, I lose again very soon.

GW2 has been around in beta for YEARS. Some of us have loved and been invested in it for a long time. And aren't going to simply drop it, anymore than any of US dropped COH when Auto Assault or Tabula Rasa or any of those games were shuttered.

You've taken something that was a positive movement and turned it into something negative and poisonous. Your vengeance won't fix what happened with COH. It'll just repeat the process.


Oh, and as for Terwyn's points:

The hacking wasn't internal. It was external. It was stupid people using their same password/username combo on internet websites that they did as game logins, or as game logins in other games like SWTOR and WoW. That wasn't GW2 or Anet's fault. That was user stupidity.

The game is not more riddled with bugs than any other MMO - and less than most. And I say that having played COH, LOTRO, SWTOR and WAR from launch. GW2's launch was extremely smooth, the gameplay continues to be smooth, and bugs are being fixed at a good clip.

It has as much endgame as COH ever did. Raids are not automatically endgame - the lack of raids doesn't equal a lack of endgame. Some of us hate raids and felt it seriously damaged COH when they were added.

It is very easy to go and find something you haven't done yet. I've got 8 characters, from top to bottom of the game, and I've been playing since beta - there are still zones I've never done. Still events I've never played. Dungeons I've never done. Jumping puzzles I haven't gotten to. Crafts I haven't touched. And I play multiple hours a day. Any attempt to claim there's nothing to do - or in any way LESS to do than COH - is just false.

One of the things I actually love about GW2 is that it feels a lot like pre-incarnate COH. I can jump on whatever character I feel like PLAYING, and play them. I don't have to worry about which one I NEED to grind something on. It's not that kind of game. It's much better.

TL;DR - stop trying to kill someone else's puppy, just because someone killed yours. It won't bring yours back. And you should know better than to wish that on other people.

Originally Posted by Bad_Influence

...Except yeah..... you kind of did. You have been mocking people upset over closure, and people with the temerity to even try something like Plan Z [*clutches pearls* HOW DARE THEY!], for dozens and dozens of pages now, in multiple threads. After a while, the message does get across and the message I am getting from you is: "To hope, to feel emotion, to even try to make a difference or work through a loss: all these things are the province of fools and idiots."

Of course, you did not directly SAY that. But your point got across, very clearly. Then we have that unlikeable Thing That Should Not Be currently known as "Evil Legacy" chiming in, which isn't exactly making the "nay" side look any more attractive.

People who consistently rain on other people's parades usually are not liked all that much. I am sure you could not care less; just saying.

Originally Posted by Bad_Influence

Of courseyou don't get it: you will never get it.

Analogy is dangerous because it is usually misunderstood; often intentionally so. Which I'm rather thinking is the case here.

Look, you dont care if the game dies: we get it already. What I refute is your idea [also held by some others in this thread] that people who ARE upset are fools, morons, idiots completely out of touch with reality, people with no grasp on economics and persons in need of psychiatric intervention.

Guess what: not everyone thinks like you do. And just because they do not, does not make them a fool, an idiot, or someone about to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge. Sorry.

Originally Posted by JayboH

What is up with my state of Wisconsin anyway? We had Dahmer and Gein.

Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator

Yep. It was a GM. And the response was still unusual even for them.

And I owe you an apology. I should have reserved any analytic comment to a personal reply rather than a public forum. I let myself get a little excited. Do you mind if I send you a PM?

Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator

Oh crap. Yeah, I do know where you are at. No wonder you seem to come off as misanthropic at times. I remember Dr. Yochelson in his seminal work in Criminal Psychology about that being a common problem in the profession (I'm paraphrasing slightly). Right now I'm being a technical witness for one of those cases with HS. Not fun. My original college plans were to go into general CogSci by the way. That's why I reflect such a strong, multidisciplinary background. My being severe sexual assault victim had me put such on a backburner for a while and I've never gotten back to it. I did change much of my focus for a while from neurological problems to general personality disorder and its formation.

I think you need a change of scenery for a while. I suspect this game (and others) have been needful escapism. I just don't know what to suggest. The problem is your sense of security is strongly tied to your current job and role. Maybe consider yourself as a co-dependent in an abusive relationship? That may seem a little extreme for assessment but the information is currently limited (for obvious reasons!).

If you read my communications here I'm trying to establish and sustain positive transference in a hostile atmosphere and working hard to avoid the cycle of accusation/defensive-accusation that has been trending here.

No. Not being lazy. I used an existing channel of communication with a business in a creative manner in order to better record it. I already had a reason to use it for its normal purpose and just combined efforts. Those tickets actually send an email to a company representative. The gist of the message was "...by the way, my company, blah blah blah, is seriously interested in purchasing yours given the recent news about its closure. Who is the proper person or department to direct inquiries?" Reply "We cannot discuss anything related to the shutdown of City of Heroes." Very interesting response. I hadn't asked for information about the shutdown. The response was unusually slow for such too. Companies have standard response patterns with regards to such inquiries, regardless of the channel, and this fell outside the generally accepted reply.

Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator

Actually those tickets are official channels of communication with the organization. They are also logged with copies sent to all parties. The kind of thing needed in court. Given that I've successfully filed lawsuits in U.S. Federal court, and that I'm the writer of the Plan z license agreement (notice that one of the persons to use it is a practicing attorney) I might know a thing or two about this kind of stuff. Matter of fact I've been a consultant to attorneys and have a small business of my own with a senior municipal judge as a client. As a professional consultant my going rate is $300.00 USD/hr.

Legally it is proof that they refused to communicate about the issue of sale. I do this for a living. How about you?

Ad hominems aren't proof of incompetence.

Originally Posted by Terwyn

Which was corrected and clarified as a miscommunication. This is not arrogance, this is carelessness, for which I quickly apologized. If I were truly as bad a person as you seem to believe, I would've let the initial statement stand.

Originally Posted by Brillig

You tried to inquire about the purchase of the game through an in-game ticket?

And because you didn't get anywhere, you concluded that there was no way to proceed?

Honestly, stuff like this is why none of you gets taken seriously, you're so completely lacking in even the most basic business acumen.

Originally Posted by Terwyn

The hacked account issue shouldn't have happened.

Bugs are a reality in all games, it's just the ones I've found in GW2 to be very problematic.

Lack of end game wasn't so much of a problem for CoH as it is for many other titles - it is very easy to go find something to do that you may not have done before, after all.

And yes, I have found the game play of GW2 to be substandard, especially in comparison to the technology they put into the game. They have a lot of great ideas, but the execution just isn't there.

You knowing more people playing GW2 than you do City of Heroes is merely evidence that the people you know have certain tastes.

Originally Posted by Terwyn

Revenue alone does not a success make. Consider the fact that there was a huge problem with hacked accounts just after launch, continual complaints about unfixed bugs, an entire lack of an end game, and the fact that its game play is substandard.



Misstatements are a perfectly legitimate reason for one to issue a correction. Do not presume to conclude that I am a racist based solely on a single statement.

Originally Posted by Terwyn

We shall see.

Originally Posted by Terwyn

I apologize for misstating my perspective on this.

It is my perception that NCSoft has failed to account for the differences in functional culture between Korea and North America.

Or in other words, NCSoft has badly misidentified its Western market.

Originally Posted by Another_Fan

Has TonyV been hearing God the All Mighty's voice now ?


Well that does put a different face on this.

Originally Posted by VoodooGirl

At least it won't run by trolls

Originally Posted by Terwyn

And what of the fact that your culture apparently degrades our community?

Originally Posted by VoodooGirl

It will never be the same community. It will be a new community born from the"death" of the original. You can choose to be a part of that or stand on the sidelines, commenting how it isn't like the original - and you'll miss out on being part of the foundations of that community.

Your choice.

Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter

I think you missed my point. The implication was that Mercedes Lackey was trying to cash in on the CoH campaign in an effort to sell books. Considering the size of the community, that just doesn't make sense. It might for a noob author trying to get established, but that is not Mercedes.

Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter

We're talking about sheer numbers here. People laugh at CoH fans efforts to save the game because they are too few to be worth it for NCsoft to sell to. Why would it be any different for an author?