Human_Being

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Maybe a challenge could not be refused but would start a count down timer. So if you were being griefed you'd have time to leave and if you wanted to PvP you'd accept. So of goes against their 'free-for-all-dive-right-in-and-start-fighting' philosophy they have in the PvP zones. But OTOH that's not exactly meeting with universal love either.....

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It would be like a Team invitation with more info. You could accept or decline it. Oh, and though I forgot to mention it in the post, there should be an easily accessible (not buried in the options menu) radio button for "decline all Challenges".

Once challenge was accepted with its settings, the only way out of the challenge would be to complete the requirements (X defeats or what have you), switch back to PVE mode at the base contact, or leave the zone. Otherwise, people could drop out of the challenge if it started going against them and "skipping" or "quitting" would replace "popping". Your options if you don't want to continue to the end are to run and get to the mission-contact/zone door, or be defeated and do the same.

Being in a Challenge would prevent someone from getting the Spoon or a WB Tech and vice versa. Otherwise someone could enter PVP mode for the easier PVE zone game, then join with a friend in a Challenge and be immune to PVP attackers.

Bloody Bay

Story Arc
Do you know how Bloody Bay got it's name? The island of "Ocean View" was once an offshore slave trading and plantation island. One night the captives rose up en masse and rebelled. The revolt was fought down in the harbor area with no quarter allowed. So many people were put to the sword that it colored the harbor red and renamed the island "Bloody Bay" . That's about as dramatic a name origin as Atlas Park has. Yet who in the game knows about it? Like all the other PVP zones Bloody Bay has a fantastic backstory which little use has been made of. Story arcs for Bloody Bay, could show us contemporary events that relate to the island's past history.

In a first arc relating the history of the island: Were the corpses of the rebellious slaves buried at the location of the Ghoulish badge? Is it their bodies that are rising from the grave?
Is this disturbed and restless past what has drawn the Circle of Thorns here?
Do the Banished Pantheon feast upon the lingering stain of misery in the hills and vice from the town?
Are the Freakshow arrived from St Martial and the new twin of the casino that once operated downtown? If so, do they seek something that was left behind?
Who was Malochio, the super villain Recluse sold the island to before his arrest? What was he doing there and what remains of his plans?

In a second arc, go more into the advent of the Shivan meteorites and the heroes who apparently (?) died trying to divert disaster for the world. Who were they and might there be some memento of these individuals left?

Mini-game
The mini-game in Bloody Bay grants the Shivan Shard 5-use temp power. It summons the most powerful pet in the game, an Elite Boss Shivan Decimator. Personally, with unslotted Fly I can get a Shivan Shard in ten minutes having only to fight the eight turrets at the bunker with essentially zero threat. Many others can do it faster...

That is RIDICULOUS!

And everyone knows it. It's been complained about for years. The ease of the task in PVE terms was set with the assumption that it would be a PVP play-element. This has turned out not to be the case as it's too difficult to intercept someone randomly and camping at one of the meteorites is boring when all other PVPers in the zone are sparring elsewhere. When commenting on it the Devs have said they are "aware of the problem" but "have no plans to change things at this time". The hanging inference being that the Shivan Shard was one of the very few things getting people to actually enter the zone and they didn't want to fiddle with the valve on gran'pa's oxygen tank .

With a Flagging system though, allowance for hypothetical harassment by a PVPer need not be made. Different difficulty settings could be encountered depending on whether one is in PVE or PVP mode. If in PVP mode, then possession of the spoon (I know the extractor icon is supposed to be a meteor but it looks like a spoon to me) would send a message to all players of opposite faction on the map currently in PVP mode announcing that a run is being made. The PVE encounters would remain as currently implemented and the mini-game can play out in PVP as it was originally conceived: PVP opponents hunting each other while doing the Shivan run.

In PVE mode, the npc opposition can be made much much harder. With a temp this powerful, acquiring it should be an event, it should be a team activity, it should be hard! The aggro range on the rocks for PVE flagged characters should be greatly expanded; no more hovering over the center and never spawning the guards. The respawn rate on the guards should be increased so that in the time it takes 3 or so players to get a sample it resets. And the players are acquiring a five use Shivan Decimator as a pet? Fine. Let them fight a Shivan Decimator six times. Make each PVE generated spawn of guards at the rocks consist of an EB and a coterie of Boss Shivan Destoryer bodyguards giving token xp so they can't be farmed. Make all of the pillbox turrets boss level strength and give them a regeneration rate so they can't be round-robined. These are supposed to be the all-important central masses of an interplanetary destroyer of worlds, one should not be able to wander up as if taking tourist photos. The pill boxes are supposed to be automated gun systems tough enough to survive in an environment where no people can survive for any span of time. If I can solo it on my Brute, it's still too easy! This should be a Team play-element. Without even the empty threat of PVP interference the Shivan run can have its difficulty brought in line with its reward.

A criticism might be leveled that on a low-population server someone could enter PVP mode and do the run just as simply as today. That is true, but in that case it is also no worse than it is today and the player might just get unlucky.


Siren's Call

Story Arcs
The creation of Siren's Call was a tragedy of epic proportions for Paragon City. And it was done on purpose. Yet again, who knows this story beyond a few old-hand forumites who remember the Paragon Times from Sept 14 and 28, 2005?
The zone itself makes for a "what happened" investigative story arc looking into the life of Thomas Danner and his brother Robert's campaign to clear his name. Once evidence appeared that throws doubt on the idea that Sunburst "lost control", a second arc might become a quest to find any evidence hinting at culpability on the part of heroes, and a job to eliminate any lingering clues by villains. In the end the real instigator could be left unconvictable and unnamed but known to the players all the same.

Mini-Game
There are two existing mini-games in Siren's Call. The first is to control battle hotspots in the zone to gain access to the zone temp powers. Since those rewards would be co-opted by the merit-alike system, that one would likely disappear. (Or at least no longer effect the availability of the temps.) The second is to collect "bounty" on randomly determined opponents who enter the zone. Since not everyone who enters will be PVPing, that no longer is true (not that it was true before as any villain who base-sat for the Born In Battle accolade pre-req can tell you). But with an opt-in Contact option one could still add them self to the pool of bounty-seekers if they wished to participate in that type of game.

There really is no draw for PVE in the Siren's Call mini-games. Nor do either of the PVP games seem to have been terribly popular. That leaves some room for a possible addition. I mention this following not because it is any way necessary for a reconditioning of the zone, but just because it's the one thing I thought of during my ruminations that made me stop and go "that would be really neat". Siren's Call is supposed to be the gap in the war walls that Recluse made to slip Destined Ones into Paragon right? So have them do that.

Have two teams combine into a challenge grouping with agreed upon difficulty settings. Each member must have a prerequisite X-token-amount of merit-alikes which is deducted from each of them. (In other words, PVP activity in the form of merit-alikes is gating further PVP content.) Then they zone into a Mayhem Map. All of the side missions would be currently open and marked on the map and a normal Mayhem timer would be running. There would be no NPC enemies present on the streets for either side. Destroying objects in the mayhem adds time to the meter in the normal fashion, but though heroes can't fire at destructible objects they might select, their attacks can still damage them if they are in the area of effect. The heroes must be careful to limit damage to their home city while trying to expel the villains. Any mission door, including the bank, which a villain character enters activates that mission for scoring and sends a warning that this is so to the hero faction (phoned in to the police from some concerned citizen, I'm sure). Bonus time is awarded for each mission the villain faction completes successfully. The winning team is the one with the greatest number of mission completions for their faction. The bank is weighted slightly greater than 1 for this tally so it can break a tie. A bonus is granted to the final award scaling upwards with elapsed time above the original value (so there is reason to "gamble on" and try new side missions). A flat win earns back the original ante of merit-alikes to each team member and the bonus adds a percent to this. A loss regardless of elapsed time earns no merit-alikes (but the team is out no more than they were originally). Defeated characters respawn at their starting area (not the prison) with minimal HP and End, causing a delay before they can re-enter battle to support their teammates; getting defeated matters.

Arson mission
The Arson mission is set up as normal with a token representation of npcs in it. These npcs are less an obstacle than a trigger device; as soon as they are defeated, the bombs start ticking. The npcs may have been placing the bombs, but the villain team seized them and set them off right now. The hero team receives notification that the bombs are now ticking and have XX seconds before they go off. They must enter the mission, seize control of the room sufficiently to be unhindered, and click all the glowies before the time runs out. If they succeed, they win. If they fail, the villains win and set the building on fire. (It also occurs to me that while in a PVE Mayhem players simply exit at this point, opposed PVPers would have to fight their way out...and do so while the building burns around them. How dramatic is that?)

Kidnap mission
For the Kidnap, the villains must enter the map, fight or bypass hostile npcs, and locate the kidnap victim. Once the victim's bodyguard is defeated it will behave like a Warburg Tech (though hopefully with a somewhat smarter AI ), tethering to a character that clicks on them and tells them to follow. The heroes receive notification when the villains enter the map as usual, but not when the victim is found. If they enter the map, any surviving npcs will attack them as well. They must find the kidnap victim and defeat the villain to whom they are tethered. Once this is done, anyone is free to click on the victim and re-tether it. The victim will not respond to a hero until it has been tethered to a villain at least once. The winning team is the one who gets the kidnap victim back to their starting area. (This is basically capture the flag with a particularly slow and stupid flag.)

Store mission
The Store is set up like a Mayhem with the sweeping search lights, but sans any patrolling guards. If a villain crosses one of the searchlights, an ambush spawn of guards scaled to the number of villains in the side mission (or a token force if that's not possible) is generated and attacks (that Longbow militia is -everywhere- these days). Heroes pass through the searchlights unhindered and without generating an ambush. If a villain clicks the four outer glowies, that is all that is required for the first portion of the time bonus and to count that side-mission a win for the villains. They can however open the vault and take the additional two glowies for the other half of the time bonus and the SO reward. (I envision this more of a rapid-sneak type of mission than a brute force one. The heroes can move much more rapidly and maneuver their force more easily with reinforcements ready to hand. Better to have a Stalker fade out while the rest of the team is occupied elsewhere and quickly hit the mission, deftly avoid the spotlights, and snag the easy glowies before the heroes can react. They could even make a return engagement later for the vault if opportunity allows. If the heroes arrive before the villain is finished, they know it is in here somewhere...but where? Where?!?)

Jailbreak mission
The Jailbreak is relatively straightforward. The villains enter the police station and are met by a small token of ppd on the first floor (again this is a token force acting more as a speed bump; the hero team is the real opposition). In the cell block they are met by a spawn including a Boss or Elite Boss depending on team size and a timer starts. If the villains can fight their way through the guarding spawn, any hero team hindrance, and the prison door, they win and gain a pet to fight with them. If the heroes can delay them until the timer runs out, overwhelming reinforcements spawn from the elevator making a team wipe likely and a second attempt impractical. If the prisoner-pet's door has not been opened a few tens of seconds after this reinforcement spawn begins arriving, the mission is counted as a win for the heroes.

Raid mission
The Raid mission is a race to the glowie. The mission map is packed wall to wall with spawns of hostile npcs that will attack either heroes or villains. The npcs should be perception boosted so stealthing the mission is not an option. The villains will be forced by weight of numbers to fight their way through to find the glowie. The heroes on the other hand, begin generating a stream of large ambush spawns keyed directly to them (because the npcs consider the heroes the greater threat you see). This is a three way brawl with the team that can mow through fastest winning. If the villains are too slow the heroes will catch up. If the heroes try to move too fast they will meet the villains with an army of hostile npcs at their back. The first person to click the glowie gains a win for their team and a chance at a temp power as normal. (Yes this one should he hard and exhausting of resources. Funny that it's the easiest one in PVE.)

Bank mission
The villains must enter the bank, fight through the speed-bump ppd, rip open the vault, and click the glowie. The villain who clicks the glowie is granted a "money" temp power that produces a gaudy yellow aura (from the gold don'cha know). Any hero who defeats them is in turn granted the temp power, and contrariwise back to a villain. However, the winner is whoever gets the money temp back to their starting area so this is basically capture the flag played at what is likely Recall Friend speed. Best for the heroes not to let the villains "kill" the vault door in the first place (How does a Defender "empathize" with a steel door by the way?). This is supposed to be the most generic and non-team capability related.

Note that the heroes can enter any of the missions on their own at any time, it just does not put them in play as a villain entering does (and in the case of the Raid it is likely hazardous to their health to go too far).

I can see many players finding the new play types interesting: King of the hill in the Arson. Capture the flag with the kidnap. High speed hide n seek in the store. Burst damage race in the Jail. Marathon, cohesive team-PVE play with PVP elements in the Raid. And high speed capture the flag in the bank.

But the real winners would be roleplayers. Now they can actually play out the kidnapping of Penelope, daughter of scientific genius Dr Goodkind. The burning of the records office containing proof of embezzlement. The theft of the priceless statue of Neverwhere. And do it all with opponents who are playing along in kind. Imagine the angst of having to hold fire because your wicked enemy is standing next to a PPD van and you don't want to injure any of Paragon's finest, or the fatalism of choosing to fight in the middle of a parking lot with full acceptance that citizens will have their property destroyed even if it's all your opponent's blows that do the damage. They could even both start out in Siren's Call, battling to enter the city or deny their foes access; then move to the battle to the city streets. With enough time and merit-alikes one might make a marathon of it in a running battle through the city: going from Brickstown to IP to Kings Row to Skyway to Talos for the escape.

Is anyone from Virtue drooling yet?

Not necessary to help PVP, but possible with the proposed changes, and I think it would sound interesting to a lot of players.


Warburg

Story arc
Warburg contains yet more tragically unused story elements. How many people know that the Rogue Isles participated in the Cold War and signed a disarmament treaty with the United States in 1982? Usually, governments are quite careful about the psychological profile and reliability of individuals given responsibility over nuclear weapons, so who is Martial Blitz and how did he come to be in command of Warburg and its research facilities? The ability to paint any failed or exposed Arachnos operation as the acts of the renegades instead of the government of the Etoiles seems awfully convenient for Lord Recluse. How did the coup play out in such a way that the renegades completely lost the bunkers and had to wall the Arachnoids in with battle robots? Malta traded powered armor to the renegades, but what did they get in return and what interest could be so vital to them they would become so overtly involved? Even if the rebellion was a deliberate manipulation on Recluse's part, might there still be something down in the bunkers worth retrieving?

Mini-game
Like Bloody Bay, the Warburg mini-game was apparently designed with the intention that someone making a nuke run would face both PVE and PVP opposition, with the PVE challenge reduced appropriately. Also like Bloody Bay this has turned out to be a false assumption. The PVE threat is so miniscule there is even less threat than there is in Bloody Bay. You just have to kill some arachnoids, usually minions, and then jog past everything else. If a PVPer does appear though, the combination of being tied to one spot with the Technician and a PVE build being most likely helpless against a PVP one makes an attempt at a nuke run futile. (As I've said elsewhere, it's extremely rare for a PVPer to make a nuke run; the people with Technicians in Warburg are almost exclusively PVE builds.) Most people just leave the zone if there's PVP opposition.

With Flagging and build switching, the need to limit the PVE threat is removed. The renegade Arachnos on Warburg are supposed to be under siege and on edge, yet they behave in a terribly lackadaisical fashion. I swear I wonder if a Nightwidow mole is mixing Quaaludes into the mess hall chow! So far as I can tell the aggro range for all the npc enemies above ground in Warburg is much shorter than in the rest of the game. I can literally walk past a Toxic Tarantula or column of Crabspiders close enough for my character to reach out an arm and touch them and they might pause to look at me as I go past. It's extremely rare for them to fire off a potshot and they never ever pursue. If you are in PVE mode in Warburg they should shoot on sight, shoot first, shoot to kill, and keep shooting. Going from the bunkers to a drop off point ought to be a fight, not a familiar stroll with the same non-responsive patrols in the same place ("Evening Ms Kringle! Mr Tarantula, I urge you to have a dentist look at those; they're turning green."). The Rogue Arachnos spawns would need to be made more responsive, more aggressive, and possibly even larger in numbers/rank. The arachnoids are a bit different as you are in close quarters with them and must engage in order to get a tech. Though again, 5 minions is not much of a threat to gain a tech from. However, most people don't know that the size of the Arachnoid spawns increases and decreases depending on the number of people in the zone! I've been down there often enough I can actually tell roughly how many people are above me in the zone and when someone enters or leaves by watching the spawn size and complement. Like a Hazard zone, these should just be large spawns as a standard. A few smaller ones would allow a bit of different play style for those who prefer sneaky tactics with the extra difficulty that they would still have to maneuver around the large spawns.

Just like the Shivan Shard, the Warburg nukes are the most powerful buff and debuff a character can acquire in the game! Right now I can get one in ten minutes; I've timed it. And this is while walking (if you use Sprint you dramatically increase the odds you'll lose the tech ). This encounter should be tough. It should be something you earn. It should take a team working together. If I can solo it on my Brute it's still too easy!.

In a PVP context, Flagging allows the mini-game to function as it was originally intended. If someone in PVP mode that does not yet have one of the Codes tethers a Tech to them self, a message should be sent to all other players in PVP mode that "Xplayer_name is attempting to rescue a Technician". Then it becomes a hunt. The npcs could be kept from interfering by applying a Stealth effect (or some other threat magnitude reducer) to PVP-mode characters that only effects the zone npcs.

Again, someone could say that if there was no one else in the zone, a player could enter PVP mode and have a walkthrough of getting a nuke. True, they could. In which case it's just like getting a nuke right now. And they might get unlucky.


Recluse's Victory

Story Arc
There are so many options here it's almost silly to go into them. Time travel now affects the game so much there is a huge body of story work to connect to. For something specific though, a zone arc might be involved with the development of time travel by Arachnos and the rescue of the technicians who created the anchors. In other words: players could be involved with the creation of the zone itself.

Mini-game
The mini-game for RV is a bit different from all the others since it directly effects the zone itself and the entire zone is tallied for a win or loss. Therefore, there really is no PVE element to it. Anyone in PVE mode should be rendered incapable of targeting and attacking the pillboxes or npcs (say that they are subtly out of phase with the temporal locus the anchors and PVPers are at or something ). PVE-mode characters could enter, collect badges, ask questions, learn about the zone game, but not attack anything. PVP play wouldn't need any significant change.

For some of the more interesting and frankly important areas of CoX, these four zones are used terribly short of their full potential.

I don't PVP. At all. But I spend a lot of time in PVP zones for various reasons. "What to do about PVP" has become topical in the last week, but I've actually been thinking about this for the past two months. Ever since Ex Libris last tried to get a list of desired PVP improvements, viewed in light of the Esprit de Corp and "what's good for the whole game?" mentality from the NCSoft buyout, I've been pondering what it is that prevents PVP from performing for the game. Why does it "hemorrhage" (Ex's term) players in this game rather than hold subscriptions. I'm posting this here because it is the rest of the non-PVP CoX community that would need to be addressed for the health of this portion of the game.

I've taken my own experiences, two months of informal canvassing of non-PVPers on why they don’t, PVPers of why they do, and PVPers of why they think non-PVPers don't and come up with what I think is a comprehensive set of solutions. This post focuses on Zone PVP and only tangentially touches on the Arena. Many of the things here have been (or most likely have been) said by others in some thread or another, I don't claim to be the original person to think of it all, but I've assembled this proposal to be a cohesive one. I'll recap the overarching major issues (those not specifically involving powerset vs powerset) facing PVP playability in this game, suggest some systematic changes to address those issues, then focus on each of the zones in turn. Yes this is a long post and if that bothers you, you need to turn back now.

The major problems with PVP are:
<ul type="square">[*]One can build for PVP or PVE, but not both. PVP is a completely different environment and calls for different powers than does a PVE build. Optimization in one hinders effectiveness in the other and PVE is the majority of content in the game. This creates a barrier to entry that is usually over come only by individuals who wish to forego PVE play with a given character and make a "dedicated" PVP toon or lv50s who are now "done" with PVE and respec into a PVP build in search of something new to hold their attention with that character. This barrier needs to be lowered so that PVP can be entered casually, rather than in dedicated fashion.
[*]There is a steep learning curve associated with PVP. In addition to different powers being optimal, different skills are required and a new set of game mechanics must be learned. Never the less, potential new PVPers are thrown in at the highest difficulty with veterans having optimized builds able to attack them. There needs to be a way for new players to find challenges more to their ability while they learn or simply to be able to hang around in PVP zones and ask questions without fear of being attacked by someone who outclasses them.
[*]There is no "reward" for PVP. As it currently exists, the only thing that can be taken away from PVP is "rep" points which are easily earned by attacking PVEers in-zone or "newbs" who have little ability to fight back (see above point). A productive reward with effect on a character rather than spoofable emotional gratification would expand the appeal of PVP. Yet, PVP is a social interaction. Unlike PVE rewards which come from overcoming set situations, the addition of a human opponent who can "throw" an encounter limits what rewards can be given. A PVP reward flatly cannot be: advancement xp, influence/infamy, power enhancements, or anything "tradable" which could be used to distort the market. A reward for PVP needs to be found that is appealing yet cannot distort the rest of the game through cheating.
[*]Defeating someone in PVP does not accomplish anything. A player respawns immediately after defeat in zone-pvp no worse for wear save the need to Rest or heal. This continues until one or another participant gets sick of it. Beyond a lack of reward, lack of a certain end-point means there is nothing to work towards and no reason not to stop and leave the zone as soon as that realization dawns. Furthermore, since a beaten foe can always come back short of certain humiliation, a note of ego ends up coloring victory and defeat. There needs to be a metric for who won a fight short of "I can always push you down".
[*]The PVP zones currently have an overwhelmingly bad play atmosphere. When CoH was first designed, care was taken to lay out a game for casual players that would not suffer from some of the more common griefing in other games. For example, spawn camping, kill stealing, and general harassment were avoided by making the majority of game content Instanced. This grief-proofing does not appear in PVP. The general paradigm is a free-for-all in which anyone can be attacked by anyone at any time. The choice of whom to play with is someone else's, not one's own. Any misbehavior cannot be censured by electing not to play with the offender. Grossly uneven matches, in terms of both strength and numbers, can be initiated and are even sought after. Other players are permitted to be 'objects' rather than people who's continued association is dependant upon their own enjoyment and any protests of displeasure are met with derision (i.e. "cri moar plz QQ"). In comparison with the genial, consensually associative, and casual profile of the rest of the game this environment is repellant and many players refuse to enter PVP zones at all due to it. This is the most overshadowing problem with PVP as it currently exists and any "fix" which does not address it will leave this game element with a sour and unattractive experience. There needs to be a mechanism for avoiding trash behavior while associating with the playmates of one's choice as there is in the rest of the game.
[*]Team vs team play is difficult, if not pointless in PVP zones. It has been stated by the Devs that PVP was "balanced around teams". With the entirely random makeup and capabilities of a "team" in CoX that's always sounded like a cop out to me, but lets take it at face value. When entering a PVP zone, whether on a team or not, you are immediately opposed by the entire population of the other faction present. This random distribution ultimately results in alternating sieges of the opposition's base where one faction will stay inside while the dominating population sits outside. The outnumbered players will eventually leave, causing the higher population group to get bored and lose members. The balance then shifts as more people come in for the previously smaller faction and the cycle repeats. There needs to be a mechanism by which a team of PVPers can find and limit themselves to an equivalent opposing group regardless of the current random population distribution in a zone.
[*]There is no draw for the zones other than PVP. The non-PVP content of the PVP zones consists of badges, BB &amp; WB mini-games (which PVPers do not play), and zone missions which are uniform and boring. If the majority of casual-players in the game are going to consider participating, there needs to be more reason to enter the zones and be exposed to it. The monolithic single-purpose mentality of the zones has failed. The model needs to be more along the lines of a mall food store where in someone walks by with other errands in mind and spontaneously thinks "I'd like to have...a Cinnabon @.@". A high level of traffic is critical for that kind of model. Beyond limiting things that actively repel players (see previous points), there needs to be content in the PVP zones which appeals to a broad section of the playerbase for its own sake
[*]It is not worth the effort to make PVP-only changes. The population of PVPers in CoX has been falling for years. With the Herculean organizational efforts and NCSoft support of the last six months the numbers are at best treading water. I can think of little sadder for a game developer than to see one of their carefully crafted toys sit unused and forgotten by its audience. A list of new developments for PVP would always have to be weighed with the consideration it is likely to be good time and money after bad. This is doubly true when the most brilliant idea could be conceived for PVP play, but the culture and unpleasantness of the current PVP population could drive people to not even give it a second glance. It is the combination of these two points that would prevent and serious undertaking to overhaul PVP. In order for it to be worthwhile for significant development resources to be committed to PVP in CoX, it must come coupled with content of benefit to the rest of gameplay and/or using pre-existing tech.[/list]
Fortunately, I think all of these can be addressed with a combination of three things.


Flagging
The idea of having a separate PVE and PVP powerbuild to switch between is not new and some other games already employ it. However, just on the face of it this would involve doubling the database for powers taken at level, slots placed, enhancements slotted, etc for potentially every active character in the game. And this is tinkering with the system that records the fundamental information which defines how a much-beloved and time-invested character plays. While I am not a DBA, from over here that sounds like what is referred to as a "non-trivial problem". If the only benefit for the game is to PVP with the gamble that it will cause people to flood into the "sick man" of CoX and become a subscription draw then it doesn't seem all that worth it.

However, the value in the development goes up if switching between the build-types is tied directly to the player's PVP flag. Currently, the flag is set the instant one enters a PVP zone and a 30 second counter is started. Consider if one first had to speak to the zone mission-contact and click "switch to PVP mode" in the menu; only then having the 30 second timer begin. This would have an immediate salutary effect on zone behavior since players can choose not to become a target and if someone wants to play with them they will have to entice them. Potential new players also have freedom to explore the zone, ask questions, and make observations without constantly looking over their shoulder or falling prey to outclassing bullies seeking easy "rep" points.

But far more importantly this "clears the decks" so to speak in the PVP zones to add new play content. Issues 8, 10, and 11 featured some stellar new content added to this game; some of which are still very popular after many months. But each of those required a massive reworking or de novo creation of a zone (Old Faultline to new, Rikti Crash Site to Rikti War Zone, and Ouroboros). If there is no concern over PVE players being attacked while running a story arc there, Bloody Bay, Siren's Call, Warburg, and Recluse's Victory would require absolutely -no- development time to geographically rework. They are ready made as they are. Furthermore, each of them has an interesting concept behind it that is little explored elsewhere and even long time players are unlikely to already be aware of. (Go into the general game population and see how many people know what happened in Siren's Call.) In this light, a PVE to PVP build-switching flag could be thought of less as a large change for a small sub-community with a questionable chance of growth than as a way of opening up pre-existing zones for known-to-be-productive content additions.

In practice: the PVP-mode would remain off when one entered a PVP zone. Upon talking to the zone mission contact for the first time, the system would be explained and an option given to create a PVP power-build. Accepting this option, a respec would begin to create a separately standing power build. Powers could be repicked/slotted and copies of all currently owned enhancements would be available to be emplaced. However, all unslotted enh could not be placed in the storage tray and would disappear for zero inf (or simply have the system keep track of the sales amount and subtract that much immediately after it is added). This is so that someone could not "create a PVP build", slot none of the enhancements, and recoup their entire enh investment or have rare items duplicated to carry back to the market (can't be dupin' rares now can we?). Once the respec is exited, the two builds exist separately. The PVP one could only be accessed by going to a PVP zone mission-contact and selecting "enter PVP mode". If the zone is exited, the PVE build automatically reverts. A separately recorded power-tray arrangement would appear in each mode. Enh could be added to the PVP build at any time by putting them in the storage tray, entering PVP mode, and slotting them normally. The build could be respeced by entering PVP mode and choosing an option to use a respec from the zone mission-contact. However, no inf or enh could be retrieved from any PVP build respec; enh can go into the PVP build but they can never come out.

The barrier to entry for PVP is reduced from dedicated builds to something casual players can outfit themselves for. The learning curve is softened since one can explore, ask questions in-game, and observe instead of being driven from the zone five minutes after arriving. The mood is slightly improved since gross misbehavior can be avoided and there is awareness that potential playmates might have to be talked into participating. Traffic increases dramatically, improving exposure and creating a larger pool of potential players to entice into joining a PVP session. Finally, instead of being a gamble, content of a type already proven to have sales appeal can be added to the game for lv15-50.

I feel the need to point out that it's not that I don't long to see War Witch's next piece, but opening up four pre-existing zones for new content sounds like a heck of a short-cut to me.

A potential criticism of this idea I've heard before is "PVP is for PVP zones and PVE is for PVE zones; leave PVP for PVP". This mental segregation is foolish. Beyond the fact that there is already nominal reason for PVEers to enter for badges and such, all the PVPers already PVP. It is the PVEers that would need to be courted to find something appealing in PVP for it to flourish. That will only happen with more (and better) exposure. This also doesn't "destroy PVP" by any stretch of reality. All those who PVP will still PVP. Those who had thought about it but didn't want to make design compromises for the rest of the game will give it a second look. And those who avoided PVP zones 100% of the time are now free to enter the zone and possibly be invited (or repelled) by what they see to give it a try. The only standpoint from which this is a bad thing is the opinion that PVEers are drawn into PVP zones to be the rightful prey of dedicated PVPers. Strangely, "you are there for my enjoyment" is rarely an attractive argument for people .


Challenges
Being able to switch builds and turn the PVP flag on and off isn't enough though. That only addresses the issues with specific encounters in the most tangential way. Once the PVP flag is on you could still be teleported into a kill box while dueling or end up facing a monstrosity loaded up with Purple IOs purchased from Gag-me-with-a-wonton.com (what does "Shock the Christmas" mean anyway??). A further way to manage encounters, relative power levels, and minimize interference is needed. For this a method of being able to "invite" an opponent to a fight is needed.

Upon being invited to a challenge and accepting, both members would switch to a flagging scheme such that they could only attack one another. No one else could attack them and they could not attack anyone else. (I do not know if this is possible with existing tech.) If the challenger or challenged is a team leader, then all of their team would enter the challenge on their side.

This ends kill-stealing and harassment at a stroke. If roleplayers want to play out the clash of hero and their nemesis they are able to go ahead without worries for being disturbed. Also, a disparity in zone populations does not stop play. For example, if there are three villains and sixteen heroes, the three villains could team and challenge a team of three (or whatever) heroes and play anyway without being overwhelmed by the majority population. If the populations stay that distorted, the thirteen other heroes don't all have to leave either because it could be agreed upon that the villains would rotate their opposition after each encounter. Finally, this gives more than a binary off/on response to misbehavior of other players in the zone. Players can still engage in free-for-all open-zone PVP, but if a group begins Teleport Foeing or an individual simply behaves as a bad sport, play can switch to Challenges and continue free from interference from the offenders. The "gank squad" will run short of targets and get bored and the player behaving immaturely is rebuked. Like the fact that not everyone in the zone is automatically flagged as a potential opponent engendering at least a modicum of solicitousness, the realization that opponents are people who can choose whether or not to associate with a player will engender a minimum of concern for whether the other person is enjoying them self.

Yet more benefit is found if another existing system from the game is added: The Ouroboros difficulty settings. The Challenge invitation could include a list not only of the opposition, but difficulty settings that the Challenger(s) is offering. The Ouroboros settings include: time limits, limited lives, buffed enemies, debuffed self, no enhancements, no inspirations, no travel powers, no pool powers, no temporary powers, and no epic/patron powers. I don't know whether it can be separated from "no enhancements", but the only thing I would think could be added to this list for PVP would be "no set bonuses".

The limit that immediately jumps out is "no inspirations"; no more "popping" unless it is agreed upon.

The Self-Debuff limit has the potential to even out otherwise wildly uneven matches or enh investments. No more "pwning" people who've spent less inf and concern for bringing a "wrong" non-FOTM powerset combo into a PVP zone is reduced.

But most important is the Limited Lives setting. Rather than beating on each other endlessly and being defeated not mattering, now there can be a set endpoint which is mutually agreed upon. Duelists can set themselves to "one life" and go two-falls-out-of-three to find the victor. Teams of four could set to "four lives" and see who beats who the fastest. Teams of eight could set ot "zero" and battle defensively to first-blood. There can be a goal.

If one cannot "hunt greys" who are not PVPing and an opponent can bring them self up or you down instead of an IO investment leading to permanent dominance of the field, "rep" might actually come to mean something. If everyone else can take their ball and not go home, but play without you, some social skills must be exercised. If there's an end-point and defeat matters, PVP is no longer measured by "you win when you &lt;self-censored&gt; the other person off"; frustrating or offending someone in PVP could become a bad thing.

A potential criticism of this idea is that it "recapitulates the arena". It does not. The arenas are dedicated PVP venues with pre-schedulable set-piece matches. Zone play is pick-up and free form; this adds to the options for play and limits hindrances. For PVP to find wider participation, it needs more spontaneous and casual participants who were on their way to do something else and decided some PVP might be fun. You can choose who to play with when, in what way, at will.


Merit System
The remaining systemic issue affecting all of PVP is a lack of reward. As stated this cannot be anything that advances a character or is tradable on the market. Fortunately such a reward system is already present in the game: Vanguard Merits. They would need to be called something else; "assassin points" or "bars of soap" or something. For the moment I'll just call them "merit-alikes". If spendable merit-alikes can be earned from PVP along with ephemeral "rep", then a broader section of the game can have something to PVP for. With little modification there is a list of rewards already present in the system as well: the Siren's Call temps. Currently most of them last for "30 minutes after purchase" (that's elapsed time, not time of use) and are only available if "your faction controls Siren's Call". They were apparently conceived as PVP-only temps and a reason to "try to control Siren's Call". Very rarely do these get purchased from what I've seen, nor does anyone seem in a hurry to try to dominate the zone for a thirty minute power; they just seem to play free-form in Siren's Call.

However, now most of these temps have an analogue that can be gotten elsewhere in the game from Safeguard/Mayhem Raid side missions. If the temps were modified to be time of use rather than elapsed time (and the teleport was made say 30 activations rather than 30 min) and purchasable with merit-alikes then you have your game-wide reward system. PVPing for merit-alikes and purchasing a pair of IR Goggles +perception power is much more reliable than running Safeguard/Mayhem side missions until it randomly gives them to you from a potential list of nineteen. Furthermore, the Raptor Pack temp would ameliorate the irritation of only Villain-side Ouroboros offering perma-temp fly power in the form of the Sky Raider Pack. And if retainable 30 Activation Teleport (enough to have fun with or use cleverly but not nearly enough to use as a travel substitute) and 30 minute use Low-G pack were available this would be the only place in the game to acquire them currently. If the Arachnos Mace was made available on both sides as well, I'd expect some roleplayers to be willing to "kill" for such a prop. These temp powers are all useful, potentially fun, and could see repeat purchasing, but are not game breaking if someone were to "cheat" and take falls for merit-alikes.

The selection obviously wouldn't have to be limited to the Siren's Call temps either. Custom weapons and exclusive costume pieces could be offered. Off the top of my head: is there a Wrestler's Championship Belt or Luchadore Mask costume option already in the game?

As the only comment I'll specifically make about the Arena: merit-alikes should also be awarded for victories in arena matches; both regular PVP and Gladiator.


Mutual Support
On the face of it, adding a seperate PVP power build for characters sounds complex, but the effort can be rationalized as work towards new PVE play options. (The Ouroboros system would ensure such content was on offer to all existing characters as well.) Allowing groups of opposite factions to merge into a "team" in which opposite faction members may attack one another but no one else might also be complicated. Or it might simply be an expansion of the existing grouping mechanics of the game and the Ouroboros limits already exist. The Merit system is proven and popular in the game already. Regardless of their difficulty or ease, in order to work all of them would have to be present at the same time. PVE to PVP build toggling is useless if no one wants to enter the zone because of ubiquitous and unavoidable bad behavior. A dueling system that lets you avoid encounters with players found unpleasant and compete with those you choose to is useless if the entry barrier competition still limits participants to those with a dedicated PVP build. Neither has any lasting appeal unless there is a reward that can be shaped to be whatever a given player might find interesting. All would have to be implemented together to allow their complements to work.

There would still remain issues specific to individual powersets (see: Aim + Build Up + Tactics vs Super Reflexes), but trying to address those before making the system itself work would merely be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Once the rest of the PVP-game functioned, empirical looks could be taken at making various sets work better in that particular environment.


I'll focus on each zone and go into how they might be set to attract more players to enter in a separate post below.

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No slight intended to the villains out there! The Praetorians are still my favorite CoH creation and Ghost Widow's journal pieces are my pick for best Manti-lore.

--&gt;M

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YOOUUUUU!!!! Dammit! \./ You people really need to attribute authorship publicly. Since it was part of the website I thought it was Arctic's.

Ghost Widow's Journal is the piece of CoX writing with the absolute best "voice" I have ever seen. I adore it. I'm so glad it's up on a webpage where I can go back and look at it.

Write more of it. No, I'm not even kidding.

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This is true, been here since the begining of the thread

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This thread is awesome. To add something... uh...

Did you know that the 5th Column conspiracy nuts were totally wrong?

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Yeah I did notice that. And since I got shouted down by some of them when I suggested those markings on the Ouroboros symbol might just be...well.."markings", I find it tremendously funny.


In further reply to Entropy_Aegis: "Cuppa Incarnate" is in reference to the second head forum moderator these boards have had: Cuppajo.

(Aura was the first)

No one has said it yet, so I will bravely throw myself on the pun-grenade for everyone else' sake.

This year the Devs go to 11 .

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Posi and I did want to make this the year where we gave fans what they've been asking for!

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You did it with this fan!!!

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/signed!



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Huzzah!

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Ahem, if I may have a moment to note something I think I may have solved.

I do notbelieve the new wallpaper has anything to do with Nemesis..

Two words...

"Mayan Calendar"

That is all.

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Yes like i said about Kuclakan and 2012 winter solstice, but one problam. It is 2007 now,and in game i think it's 2005.(the obituraies in rouge sland protecter).

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It's worse than that, Jim....

The article mentions Columbia. The Mayans were in what is now Guatemala. The Aztecs were in what is now Mexico. If you're talking about Columbia then the local mass-murdering-city-dwellers were the Inca. (And even that's on the border fringes of the Inca's largest expansion.)

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Also, there have already been hints that most zones are going to see at least minor changes as a result of I11.

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Can you point to that reference?

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Do you like PvP?

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No.

level15
Might explicitly state you can get a Stealth Temp power for patrolling Bloody Bay. Also get a Shivan Shard.
If you have leveled in the Hollows and completed all four of the contacts there, Cavern of Transcendence Trial (the mission holder must be between 12-15 in order to start the trial; otherwise you must wait on someone else to offer to take you along auto-exemped at a later level. Also note that the aforementioned Stealth Temp comes in handy in this Trial )

level 20
Do Siren's Call patrol for another Stealth Power (full invis rather than partial)

level 21
Banished Pantheon Masks can also be hunted in the northeast forest of Bloody Bay, and they are auto-scaled for you rather than being random level. They are also -much- more plentiful.

lv 30 do Warburg Patrol for Intangible Temp power. You can now get the Warburg Nukes as well.

lv 24, 34, 44 Respec trials

lv40 Hydra Trial?

lv41 Eden Trial?

-Daemodand,
I got the Watchman/Watchwoman Accolade last night with a lv8. In Peregrine Island and Skyway. They only time I faceplanted was deliberately taking the hospital-exress from Portal Corp quadrangle on the way to the Ferry.

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Someone asks "You've been playing for three years and you've never done a TF?"

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Me... I've been on 3 failed respect trials not because I wanted the respect just because I got invited, 1 successful cavern of trancendance and about 3 missions into a positron before it broke up. Thats in 3 years 3 months.

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Okay. In my year and a half I haven't done many myself... But after three years you know what a Task Force is, right? Therein lies the give-away.

I recently saw two of these in the same Synapse TF. One of them was a Claws/Dark Scrapper. He didn't say much of anything during any of the mishes. I checked his badge list to see what kind of player he was (casual, all the mission badges for content, badge-[censored], holiday-soldier, whatever). He's got the 12 month Vet badge and a sprinkling of others. So then I go look at his powers list. He isn't in Fitness Pool and alarm bells start to go off. I take a close look at his Primary and he had a grand total of 3 Claws powers, including the slow low-damage PBAoE and not including Focus.

No one else really paid attention early on (Scrapper, he can take care of himself, no?) but I kept a watch on him. During combat he used his Origin Power (Taser for Tech origin) in his regular "attack-chain". If I can call it that. The three Defenders on the team were each out-damaging this Scrapper. What's more in the very first mish he ends up in that ball of lightening the Clocks use for Sleep. Sleep! I start to watch the icons next to the team window.....and he's running no toggles at all. I mean none. Nothing. It's pretty obvious this is a bought account and this person has no idea what they are doing (if it was someone's kid on a parent's account they would have been given better build advice). I'm going to stay polite and at the start of next mish I ask "Why aren't you running your toggles?". Without saying a word he suddenly turns on everything, including Sprint. There's not much I can do without stopping and giving him a game tutorial and we're in a rush to finish the TF before people have to start leaving. Needless to say he left his toggles off throughout the next mission and ended up getting mezzed. In exasperation I told him to at least keep Obsidian Shield running. I'm guessing he wasn't even sure what that was because he briefly turned everything on again. It was a very unique approach to Dark Armor End-management.

The second one was a Warshade with the 36 month Vet badge. We came out of the first mission of the TF and he speaks up in chat "So is that all there is to the TF?" &lt;chills down the spine&gt; I had to send a tell to the team leader (friend of mine) and ask if I'd read that right. No, we reply, that was the first of many. Someone asks "You've been playing for three years and you've never done a TF?" "Oh I have, but it's been a while." Uh-hunh, right.

We had a really talented Ice Tank on the team who specialized in Herding, great for the Warshade and team-lead Peacebringer's AoEs. But the Warshade keeps insisting on going Lobster. Worse, he does something I've read about on these forums but never seen before: he suddenly says "AFK" in mid-fight and does this every mission. He parks himself and leaves everyone else to go fight. Then he miraculously comes back at the end of each mish. This was his regular behavior till the Leader threatened to boot him if he did it again.

We made it all the way to the appearance of Babbage dragging these two through every mish. We've got three Defenders (Kin, Dark, and Emp), an Ice Tank, a Peacebringer, my Scrapper, and the claw-less Scrapper and absent Warshade. With two -regens on him and Fortitude on the damage dealers we still can't dent him. The Warshade...goes into Dwarf and stays there. We tell him repeatedly to go Nova for the extra damage. That the Dwarf doesn't hit hard or fast enough, we need the Nova. He ignores us. Everyone else is off chasing Invasion badges so Skyway is unusually empty and we're having trouble getting extra help in Broadcast. The Tank finally gets her fill and says what everyone else already knows: "&lt;character-name&gt;, is that a bought account?" Silence from the Warshade. In annoyance I send "You don't suppose &lt;.&lt;?" Silence from the Warshade. Joining in the catharsis the Peacebringer says "Could it be &gt;.&gt;?" The Warshade says nothing...and finally goes Squid-form.

We eventually got enough people to claw down Babbage's HP. As soon as he was down the Warshade suddenly said he "Had to go" and quit the team. The other Scrapper spoke up and said he had to as well. We went into the final mission of the TF with the same effective complement we had done the rest of the missions with: 6.

The rest of the team was absolutely stellar. We completed the TF in 2.5 hrs. I'm curious how fast we could have gone without the dead weight.

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Since April Fool's Day is around the corner...

Did you know... The Hidden Badge!

It wasn't long after CoH went live that someone figured out how the data files were compressed and went "pigg diving". With Issue 2 on the horizon, a lot of the upcoming badge info was dug out of the .pigg files and enough spoiler info was posted to the forums that the forum moderators ended up making it a bannable offense to read the .piggs and upload their contents to the forums.

In March of 2006, a new badge appeared in the .pigg files and got the "pigg divers" buzzing about an upcoming April Fool's event in City of Heroes. Despite the speculation, April 1 came and went with no special event heralding April Fool's Day. Positron got the last laugh when he revealed that the "April's Fool" badge was an easter egg inserted into the data files to tease the "pigg divers". To date, there's no way in-game to become "April's Fool".

(Note to self - Try /settitle just for laughs.)

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Did you know...

That since Paragonwiki went BOOM! (and was later reinstated) on 7/15/07 links like the one above no longer point to anything and linkers need to go back and update their link-etys for posterity's sake?

(this one was fixed by switching ".....com/index.php?title=Easter_...." with "....com/wiki/index.php/Easter_....")

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I sit in awe.



Eww... I got it on mah pants.

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Better to sit in awe than stew in anger .

In addition to congratulations on your quinfecta, I would like to complement the original poster on his fantastically dramaticaly-appropriate forum name.

Now go out there and win a sexfecta.

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So, the sexacta is indeed possible. I wonder if Ambrosia insps work the same way? (And if base and invention salvage drop separately, then we'll be looking for the sepfecta).

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For the THIRD TIME: Base and Invention are already separate, and already part of the Quinfecta! Take a closer look at the original screenie.

*friendly slap to clear Zombie's head*

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I dunno, I prefer "Sexfecta".

And since I didn't fight too hard when you suggested "Bloom" over my "Chromatic Dawn" for Mito respawns Zombie (it's shorter and I was looking for a way to escape anyway so it wouldn't be a true "Dawn"), I think I'll dig in my heels on this one

Sexfecta FTW! .

(That was what we were discussing right? &lt;.&lt; &gt;.&gt; &lt;.&lt

This is also being discussed in the Abyss thread.

No. We've never seen any amount of +Stealth keep a Stalker from being seen. I have vague recollection of Iakona saying in Closed Beta that Hamidon's debuffed-to-minimum perception was greater than Stalker's stealth cap.

I do have some question about what it is that's doing the perceiving. The Yellow's will definately shoot at a Stalker. If it's all the Mitos or even just the Nucleus that has this perception then a Stalker is never going to be able to move around invisibly. If it's just the Yellows standing Sentinel, then it's conceivable a Stalker could move in hide after they are down. I've got no evidence for that though and I doubt it's set up that way.

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There's a few things about the whole Hami overview that are, from what I've seen, incorrect. Here's the observations that I've made during Hami testing:

<ul type="square">[*] Neither the mitos NOR Hami can overcome a tanker's standard mez shield on their own, it takes a minimum of THREE yellows to break unbuffed Unyielding. The Blues do not appear to stack mez with the yellows, I've had 2 yellows + 2 blues on me without breaking Unyielding.

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If you are talking about one single shot then this is correct. Otherwise not in my experience. Aggroing a single Yellow I've been two-shot out of Unyeilding on more than one occassion. Integration has the same magnitude (10.4) and people have been two-shot stunned through that as well.

There have been times when I've been shot by a single Blue and Feared and times when I've been shot by a single Blue and not Feared. So in this case there appears to be a %Chance of Mezz instead of guarantee. It's possible that there is %Chance of Bonus Stun Mag in the Yellow Attacks and you've been fortunate.

Furthermore, if more than one Yellow is shooting at me I've been Stunned through Unyeilding and Unstoppable (total 27.7).

And finally, I've been stunned though Unyeilding in the PBAoE of a Yellow when it was shooting at someone 80' away so the Aura appears to have Mezz as well. Anyone not standing at a distance but up in their face is going to have to deal with that as well.

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<ul type="square">[*] The greens CANNOT harm Phantom Army, so once the yellows &amp; Hami are under control PA are still highly effective in tanking the greens. A Granite Armor tanker with the +Toxic RES FF bubble could also easily tank greens for a reasonable amount of time, enough for a clearing team to hold &amp; kill off the greens.

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According to TheGrinnz, he was shot through Phase Shift by the Greens back when they had 600' range like the Yellows (top of this page).[/list]

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For the record, Tlatoani is the Nahuatl word for "speaker" or "ruler".

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And Nahuatl is the Aztec language.

For the record, Vulpish_One/Tlatoani was one of the two, along with TopDoc, that helped me confirm the Yellow aggro range for the map on Friday.

Here's my report and impressions from the 4/5/07 Villain test-run on Hamidon organized by Lemur Lad. Even though there's a lot of information to share this is pretty long. But I kind of have to tell it this way.

To start off with, we attempted the Yellows with a team of 5 Brutes including myself, plus Lemur's Dominator as Team Teleport/Group Fly-Battle Taxi. Each member of the team was given 4 EoE, 2 Large Breakfrees (Mag 20, 90 sec duration) and 3 Medium Breakfrees (Mag 15, 60 sec duration); the Breakfrees to be used should anti-mezz buffs be insufficient. I also invited a Mind Control Dominator to the team (Dr.Mindbinder) and asked him to follow us in on foot and see if Mind's ranged attacks would hit the Yellow given that they are only typed Psi_Attack.

The method of attack was the 'standard' Team Teleport to the Mito under EoE and attack it with 6 melee characters. Group Fly being used to keep everyone in contact with the Mito and maintain DPS. By report Scrapper teams hero side have this down to 20 sec per Mito.

Our first target was to take down a single Yellow as a practice run and get everyone oriented. After the first was down we would begin trying for more than one in a row. We had /Colds, /Therms, and at least one /Kin and one /Rad buffing us.

In both jumps 1 and 2 we failed to take down that first Yellow. It's disorienting and the environment so punishing that even a tiny mistake can cause the attack to fail in the 60 sec window of an EoE. As an example: upon teleporting in you still must hit Follow to close and then manually maneuver into melee range around the Mito with several other teammates. On the first jump I over-shot the Yellow in the confusion and ended up near the Blue line. Both the Blues and Greens aggroed and started shooting. I had to stop, hit Unstoppable (3 sec activation) to protect myself from the Greens, then retrace to the mito with Slow effects from the Blue-shots, the Goo, and Group Fly reducing my speed. This is a good 10+ sec I wasn't helping the team because I held "W" a moment too long. There's lots of little things you can do wrong with severe punishment until you get situated.

On our third jump we added a 6th Brute who had been locked out of the zone-limit for the first two runs. the third jump took down the first mito in 60sec. After more EoE was distributed we tried for two in a row and the 2nd and 3rd Yellow mitos were taken down each in 60sec. In four attempted attackes we'd taken down the southern 3 Yellow mitos. With only 3 spare EoE that was the end of the formal jumps for Yellow Mito clearing.

Observations:<ul type="square">[*]I glanced at my Fury bar several times while fighting the Yellows and the reads fluxuated around +150% damage, so Fury was building fine. Never-the-less, we still never bettered our time from 60 sec per Yellow. I actually thought we hadn't taken down the 3rd one because it was defeated just a moment after my EoE coverage vanished and I went down. This is a far cry from 6 Scrappers defeating a yellow in 20-30sec. Was this due to simple lack of practice or the lower base damage of a Brute putting them further behind in the healing race against the Greens? I don't know. This is the first time we've been able to mount a formal attack on one Yellow with multiple Brutes under EoE.
[*]We had two /Fire Brutes in the team and neither was able to lay Burn on the small platform of the Mito. It would have been nice to see but this tactic doesn't work .
[*]The Mind/ Dominator was able to score hits on the Yellow. While they have Ranged defense they do not have defense against Psi attacks. This means that both Psionic Assault melee attacks and Mind/ Ranged attacks (along with Blind from Illusion control) can be used on a Yellow mito. None of those does a terribly large amount of damage, but every little bit can help.
[*]One of the present /Cold Corrs (Frigid Wytch? Sorry, not sure on your name) told me that while we were attacking she had managed to land a Heat Loss on the Yellow. She knew this both from the animation and the report in her combat log. I asked her to repeat this in our next run on the chance she had just gotten a lucky 5% to-hit floor shot. It landed the next time as well. Heat Loss is an auto-hit debuff and this opens the possiblity of other auto-hit and toggle debuffs being applied to the Yellow mitos.
[*]The change to Thaw and Antidote including Fear and Confuse in their protected mezzes is fantastic. We didn't have /Sonics there but still could keep ourselves safe from the Blues without piles of Breakfrees.[/list]
I heard that this one time _Castle_ forgot to bring his lunch to work and Chuck Norris offered to split his sandwich with him .<ul type="square">
[*]In previous times in the Goo I've always been loaded up with Breakfrees due to lack of available Corr support. This means I've usually had anywhere from 40-75 mag knockback protection on me. I've had a few times where that was not true but only a few. On two of our jumps this time I went in with only my Unyeilding toggle and a stack of Thaws. With all of Hamidon shooting at us I never took knockback. I've suspected for a while that the knockback component wasn't as high as some have been reporting and now I'm pretty sure just a standard melee toggle or Acrobatics is enough to protect from it. What this means is that a Melee team wouldn't have to depend on extra buffing from a /Kin with Increase Density or Breakfrees; the mezz protections from other Corr types without knockback protection should do just as well.
[*]Even with a small amount of EoE, experimenting is problematic because the small slip ups that come with learning are severely punished. The Villain side Monster Island-alike is coming (and in good hands from what I hear), but we need it badly. It's hard to maintain a steady stream of testing on this side because even a small mistake is just so darn expensive.[/list]
Out of EoE and with 3 Yellows still up, we followed Jeromus' idea of simply throwing everyone in the zone with a mellee attack at a Mito. The testers split into two groups with a smaller third. Lemur took charge of a ranged group along with part of the present Corrs. The melee characters plus a few support-buffing corruptors made the second. Foxboy/Lady Nogitsune (later replaced by Zombie Man just as Lady N was leaving) with a small team formed an attempted Nucleus taunting group. While he had a taunt-Brute and /Therms the multiple yellows still up meant he had to use pet-streams to try this. How well this distraction worked was inconclusive. The southern Yellows had been cleared so this is where the Ranged team was, the Melee team was to the north east, and the Nucleus group was at 11 O'clock Rock; all three had to be out of direct sight of what the others were doing.

For the first mass-rush on a mito, three (3)! Warburg Bio nukes were dropped on the group. Casualties among the 20+ attackers were total, but the Mito was successfully defeated. After recall-n'-rezz and regrouping, we went after the fifth Yellow. Without the +450% damage to the group from the previous run we failed to defeat the Yellow and again everyone in the wave was downed. A second attempt at the fifth Mito had similar results.

While this was going on the ranged group had tried to engage the Blues at the same time as the melee group was attacking. The Yellows fired on the ranged characters as well as the melee group, overwhelmed the healing umbrella, and casualties were apparently 'quite high' .

Observations:<ul type="square">[*]Taking a Yellow down with an EoE-less bum rush does work. I informed Jeromus later that his methods were "crude and uncivilized, and they got the job done". But you have to really want it to work. If this becomes a tactic that is likely to be necessary in a Live raid it will very much hurt the popularity of Hamidon runs.
[*]Even just two Yellows were enough to halt 20+ people trying to maul one of them.
[*]Even without the EoE, the massive buffs to the entire group from the Warburg Bio nukes let us take down the 4th Yellow in short order. This applied only to that mito though since the buff vanishes on defeat and the speed with which the Yellow was destroyed still wasn't enough to allow survivors to escape the fire from the other two.[/list]
At this point in the evening, with people drifting away, morale dropping, frustration building, and the likelyhood of making any more headway disappearing, I noticed a character I'd been looking for over the past week. I'd been collecting the EoE for this test-run since back in Closed Beta and announced on those boards that I now had enough to make an attempt at a Yellow clearing. When I posted this announcement, one of the people who had donated 7 EoE to me posted that, in that case, they wanted their 7 back. I hadn't seen this person in-game since then and expecting the evening to end soon I sent them a tell informing them that I had their 7 still sitting in the base bin, hadn't used them, and could return them after we were done here. They replied that they had only been joking and I could certainly use it.

I sent a tell to Lemur and Jeromus telling them to wait because I'd just gotten access to 7 more EoE and went to base to retreive it. The 3 I had remaindered from before, the new 7, and 1 contributed from Mjorn's group arriving from Abyss2 meant we had enough for EoE to cover a core group of brutes for two runs (6 the first and 5 for the second). We gathered the people that were left, launched in again, and had the satisfaction of of watching the 5th Mito vanish with a few seconds to spare on EoE coverage. The ranged group had tried to move in again but even one unengaged Yellow was enough to stop their advance.

Around this time we began to experience zone-wide mapserver delays. I don't know that anyone actually had to relog, but from chatter it seemed everyone was affected by the freezes.

For the final Yellow mito, enough on its own to keep us away from the Blues, we had a smaller group of around 15 meleers, no major external buffs, fewer supporting Corrs, and only 5 characters under EoE. Do-or-die we launched at the last Yellow and in flight the improvisation of debuffing the yellow with my WB Chemical nuke occured to me. I dropped it in my tray and fired when I arrived with the first group. Did it hit? I'm not sure. Between the AoE flashes, Aura Pulses, and general confusion it was impossible to see any debuff graphic. I'm not even certain it was low enough to the ground to be in the area of effect to begin with. To my eyes it looked like we ripped much larger chunks out of it and went down alot faster, but I'm not certain I could trust my time-sense in all the excitement. Most of the attackers were still alive when the last one went down.

Observations:<ul type="square">[*]A Warburg Chemical nuke may or may not be able to debuff a Yellow Mito. This should be considered annecdotal until someone else can confirm it actually hits.
[*]A core of meleers under 1 minute of EoE with a swarm of kamikaze followers can take down a Yellow, but if there is another around it does not appreciably improve the survival of either group.
[*]A single surviving Yellow mito was enough to prevent the rangers from advancing under a healing umbrella.[/list]
We defeated the last Yellow...

...and the Raid instantly became a Mob. It had been 3 hours since we started trying to take down the Yellow Wall. The frustrated and long-waiting ranged team immediately attacked. Jeromus and I tried to call the meleers back but they still wanted blood. The Brutes and Stalkers swarmed into the Goo from where the last Yellow died. The Taunt team ran in to take up their assigned job. The rangers didn't stop at the edge and keep their distance but moved into Hamidon and began clearing the blues in a spiral from the inside. This was Sherman's March To The Nucleus and nothing was going to stop it.

I spent a minute trying to regain any sort of order in the scattered meleers before giving up. I saw an unoccupied Green firing down into the trailing edge of the rangers and flew into it. I had a minute left on Unstoppable, clicked for the extra mezz protection on the final Yellow attack, and held it's attention off of the group. I called for a Recall Friend just before Unstoppable began to blink and rode out the crash from the sidelines (I hid behind a rock to be safe from fire before I realized I didn't have to do that anymore ). I got everything turned on again and stood off to take a look at things.

The Taunt team was surviving just fine standing in the Goo and everyone else seemed to be ignoring the nucleus for the moment. The Blues were already halfway cleared. Every mito was swarmed by fliers who they couldn't seem to stop. A few Corruptors were flying between spots putting Mezz protections and heals on the attackers and debuffs on the Mitos.

Have you ever been on one of those really good PuGs? Where you don't know anyone else in the group and neither do they but they know their own characters and what they can do? Where no one ends up giving orders but when someone sees where they might be needed they just go and do it and support the whole team?

Now imagine that with about 35 people.

Have you ever been in Siren's Call when there's a large number of roughly equally divided players? Where there's almost constant motion between the dogfights with enemies and allies flying in different directions through your field of vision? Where a spot you might be needed in appears, disappears, and shifts from moment to moment?

Now imagine that as a PVE experience.

Hamidon is modeled after some nightmarish giant Amoeba. Watching from the outside it looked like Hamidon was being engulfed and devoured by the Villains rather than the reverse.

The last Blue went down in short order and there was enough of a break for cheers and enough realization we were too scattered for Lemur to call everyone to gather on one side of the Cytoplasm. I sent a tell to Lemur asking if we were going to stop for any of the tests on the Greens that we'd planned for. He replied that there was no way we were going to get people to stop with them in this mood and this much excitement. I'd already agreed with him before I asked. The mob began to retrace its path through the Goo for the Greens. Determined to get -some- testing in I yelled in Request for any other Super Strengths in the Abyss. I got one reply, located him in the swarm, and led him around to the far side away from everyone else. We attacked a Green, seeing if the holds from two Knockout Blows was enough to drop the resistance shield. My Unstoppable click was still recharging and the Green took me to 25% health before I could set it off. We couldn't hurt the Green until some annoymous Dominator(s) reached us from below and then we killed it quickly.

The last greens were destroyed shortly after and half the people pulled out while the other half went to the nucleus. Yells in Request and Broadcast got most of the rest out so we could reorganize. I was in the Goo sending tells to individual players who hadn't noticed they were mostly alone beating on the nucleus when the last mapserver hit us. Unlike the others, everyone DCed and had to relog this time.

When we came back the zone had reset and our Hamidon was gone. There were cries of frustration (not least of which from me) and then congratulations and approvals all around for how well we'd ultimately done.

Observations:<ul type="square">[*]I had two minutes on one Unstoppable (3 slotted for recharge), used Force of Nature for extra recharge against the last Yellow, used Hasten at the same time and again during the interrim, spent about half the time in the Slow of the Goo, and was through the next Unstoppable when the last Green was down. So between the first shot on a Blue to the defeat of the last green was somewhere around 10 minutes.
[*]The hold protection on a Green is at least 6. Two Knockout Blows with magnitude 3 holds, applied within 2 seconds of one another (KoBs activation time) were insufficient to drop the resistance shield.
[*]Fire_Ice managed to drop Snow Storm on all three types of Mito. What the actual debuff effect was we are not sure of. But normally auto-hit debuffs will at least land on them.
[*]During the attack on the Greens Lemur dropped Carrion Creepers on one of the Mitos. But he couldn't stop to watch it. I saw it already lashing about but had to keep going to put out other fires. Wintersthaw whom I spoke to later saw it but was too busy to pay attention to it either. If it was not defeated and the Green it was attacking was simply destroyed we woudn't have been able to see the 'bramble' animation under the water. So, it lived for "a bit" but we don't know how long. It makes me wonder though if it's only the 'Special' damage from the Yellows, Blues, and Nucleus that shoots through Phase Shift and destroys Phantom Armies.
[*]Assassin strike was previously shown to not be interrupted in the Goo by Infinite Man. I was unable to use Aid Other in the Goo though.
[*]This. Was. So. Awesome.
[*]All the people who've been saying the Villains just don't have the determination to beat Hamidon are Full Of It.[/list]
Overall impressions: The Yellows feel inordinately hard at the moment. I say "feels" because I'm not sure whether they really are or lack of EoE has kept us from developing the skills to fight them. With EoE to get some extra practice in the Yellows might just feel like a nice series of EB fights. But I don't known. Regardless there is a definite sense that once the Yellows are down everything else will be downhill. The Blues I've kind of lost my fear of (without intention to pun). The slows can be annoying and you need to take basic protections against the Fear, but if you do so they're not that much trouble even without EoE. With the frustration of the Yellows making a possibly distorted contrast I'm not ready to call for a buff to them but I'm thinking about it.

Fighting the yellows seems like work right now. They're like the hard crating you have to pry off to get to the fun toy inside. Once they were gone, and even without a formal plan or stepwise organization, everyone had a blast. I don't know that anything like that final assault can happen other than Spontaneously. I hope though that Live raids can capture at least some of that feeling of constant movement, battle, and not being able to see beyond your corner of the fight but having the overall impression that your side was winning. Part of the problem with the old Hamidon runs was people having little to do but stand in place and hit one button (or just set a power on auto). This encounter at least seems to have more potential for dynamism.

The more time I spend in the Abyss the more impressed I become at how successfully egalitarian Hamidon feels. Every AT is included at more than one point. Every powerset can contribute something that makes everyone else's job easier. We've yet to see a "you win" power or one without which "you lose". Someone will jokingly bring up Oil Slick, but even as awesome as that is (and I'm delighted for all the Trick Arrow users out there), it's something that makes it less painful to do Hamidon wrong instead of something that is required to do Hamidon right.

To everyone who was there last Thursday (except the hecklers that left before the Yellows were down): You all did fantastic.

To everyone who wasn't there at all: you missed it .

I'm looking forward to going back into the Goo.

No no . I mention that in the post Street_Wolf was replying to and the buffs to Thermal Radiation and Poison are wonderful. What we were talking about is the out-of-favor Powersets like Trick Arrow and Sonic Resonance becoming suddenly sought after in presence of new-Hami (and Sonic Resonance isn't limited in use to just Clarity either ).

[ QUOTE ]
That's an amazing tactic TAs are getting their glory!



. . . .Now theres sonic. &gt;_&gt;

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh I'm so sorry I didn't see this post days ago Street_Wolf.

Y'see, villain side we were looking high and low for a /Sonic Corruptor and there were none to be had! /Sonics have Clarity which is the only Fear protection villain side as a targetted buff. Hamidon's Blue Mitos throw Fears around. Now that changed with the last patch giving Fear protection to /Therms and /Poisons, but at the time we had to make do with lots and lots of Breakfrees.

Also, Hamidon's Green Mitos throw Toxic damage. /Sonic has the only really good Toxic resistance buff in the Corr sets. /Cold has a tiny bit in Frostwork but it's hard to put Frostwork on an entire team. Masterminds have a smidge in Alkaloid from /Poison and the same value (22%) in FFs Deflection Shield but our few MMs were tied up in other duties and I didn't see more than a couple /FF MMs anyway. We -really- wanted a /Sonic in Closed Beta and no one had one.

Also try: First ever defeat of a new-Hamidon Yellow Mito came at the hands of a Stone/Fire Brute (Sotark5). Fire's gotten some love recently in Healing Flames but many still look down on it.

new-Hamidon is setting a lot of things on their ear.

I love the command options .