GrinningSpade

Yes a fantasy (most often medieval zone) would probably not be a good thing. There are tons of more or less good fantasy mmorpg's out there. Not a good thing to try to compete with those when your own mmorpg got its own unique niche in the mmorpg market.

Nothing wrong with enlarging that niche but medieval fantasy should not be the first choice imo.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now try that at him being +2 levels. A level where you find the normal opponents a satisfying challenge.

[/ QUOTE ] Sorry that argument doesn't work. It's that players' fault if he/she chooses to attempt a mission containing an EB/AV at a difficulty level higher than he/she can cope with due to the presence of the EB. You are given full warning by the contact that you may need help.

What you are asking for is to have your cake and eat it. I'm sorry but if you can't cope with the difficulty level [u]you chose to run at[u] because of an EB in your mission then that's tough. You'll just have to [u]lower the difficulty to a manageable level[u] to take into account the higher overall difficulty of that mission.

I'm sorry if this reads as rude/blunt but we've tried reasoning and you don't seem to grasp that it's not the game that needs to be changed to accommodate your problem because it is self inflicted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lowering the difficulty is exactly what I always do. Or if the AV/EB is just to though to handle try to ask people for help. Or worst case scenario outlevel the mission completely. I know the solutions. But that does not mean that I don't think the system can be improved. Because I am convinced that it should not be a tough endboss that makes a mission worthwhile doing.

But it seems that only a minority of the players have the same feelings as I do about this. I made this case as best as I could and leave it now up to the developers to either do something with it or not. The defense rests.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fail to see a nobody like golden sphinx, 3k kelvin, Unnamed Longbow Balistae or biffs fall into the Darth Vader Category.

[/ QUOTE ]

They don't. That's why they are reletively wimpy EBs, not powerful AVs.

You could downgrade natural EBs to bosses, in the same way as AVs are doungrade to EBs but I really don't see the point, for these reasons:

1) There are very few natuaral EBs in the game, they are hugely outnumbered by AVs, so the people you are trying to help would still get hung up almost as frequently as before.



[/ QUOTE ]
There are more redsided and es I realize that with this option you would still get hung up now and then. But you guys convinced me with the need for the occasional Darth Vader

This would make the option less useful I agree.
[ QUOTE ]


2) Take away the EB status of some mobs, and they may as well not exist at all. The whole point of LB Ballistae is they are EBs. That is what makes them distinctive. And wouldn't Frostfire be a real letdown, if he where only a boss?


[/ QUOTE ]
He used to be a normal boss before. A boss with wicked evil powers. For those who solo him a challenge enough when you try him on invincible.
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know exactly what they do with EB's but they are significantly harder to beat then a normal boss.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. They may require a moments thought, rather than just plowing strieght through without noticing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Plowing straight in is for most of the squishies I play not an option when I encounter that boss. And even for non squishies a boss mob is often a hard target to take down solo. At least for me.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now im starting to disagree, Spadey. Downgraded AVs can still be quite nasty, and so they should be, swear at them though I may
'Normal' EBs get chewed up and spat back out with extreme prejudice, as they deserve No real problems, unless your even worse than me at playing ATs XD

[/ QUOTE ]

You might be surprised here

[/ QUOTE ]

The ONLY EB I have found to be a real challange, and one who isnt normally an AV, is a Ballista. And even then I managed to solo it. Orange conning (equal lvl), with a Claws/ninja stalker. Challanging, but very satisfying. I still have the spine somewhere

[/ QUOTE ]

Now try that at him being +2 levels. A level where you find the normal opponents a satisfying challenge.

[ QUOTE ]
Now im starting to disagree, Spadey. Downgraded AVs can still be quite nasty, and so they should be, swear at them though I may
'Normal' EBs get chewed up and spat back out with extreme prejudice, as they deserve No real problems, unless your even worse than me at playing ATs XD

[/ QUOTE ]

You might be surprised here

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then there are EB's who are nothing but a speedbump.

[/ QUOTE ]

How are you distinguishing between these? Most of the ones you have mentioned seem to fall very firmly in the first catagory.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fail to see a nobody like golden sphinx, 3k kelvin, Unnamed Longbow Balistae or biffs fall into the Darth Vader Category.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
so much more high and might then a bossmob

[/ QUOTE ]

But they aresn't so much higher. EB HP and damage are really only a little higher than a regular boss.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know exactly what they do with EB's but they are significantly harder to beat then a normal boss.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can so. I think, if they actually worked on it and took some time, it could be epic. Anything done half-a$$ed will suck, obviously, but theres no reason something thats planned out couldnt be great.
Besides, things like scabbards and w/e used as costume details could coincide with more costume details that would work in similar ways, like backpacks, back details, amongst others. Maybe even, heaven forbid, CoT style robes!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes - nice long dresses - they managed to duck out of it with tunics in Cimerora, but a medieval zone would demand them

[/ QUOTE ]

And as Jay is unable to make long dresses work, we wont get a medieval setting.

Personally I would like a more Victorian style better though. Because in there you can introduce steampunk which seems to fit the CoX universe more. It has been done before in games but less often then Medieval/Fantasy.

The Dark Ages wouldn't be the Dark Ages when some heroes come rampaging through.

Happy Birthday, enjoy the carrots!

[ QUOTE ]
Powers like stealth, invisible, grant invis and recall friend are there for a reason.


[/ QUOTE ]

^^^ This. Ghosting a mission is just a strategy to deal with the mission. It is as valid as other strategies. I made my main ghostable now and can help out in the next tf she will enter.

Lets break this down a bit.

I got problems with some AV types. But they are designed to be tough and hard and be a major challenge to take down. To take them down is a major victory and not something most AT's (or in my case even AT who should be able to do so ) can accomplish solo. To diminish them in power would be wrong. I concur with that. Especially since there are not that many of them and you see the trouble coming from afar.

Lets keep those above out of the discussion because I agree with you here.

Then there are EB's who are nothing but a speedbump. They have no major part in the background or an other good reason to be so much more high and might then a bossmob. The only reason is to make life harder for the player. Well that might be nice and dandy but when the player is playing at a difficulty level that is already challenging then making it more challenging is to much. As red player I encounter these to often. Resulting in having to reset the mission into a lower difficulty so I can beat them. Those unnecessary random EB's are a thing I want to optionize out when I solo.


Ps. T3h Pwnz0r should be an EB. You even get a Badge for defeating him!
Pps. Rick Morrani = Dark Helmet actor. Thanks for answering. Ps does it count that I got nightmares about him to raise him in evil stature?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In a lot of arcs you will have to defeat boss huppeldepup. And instead of him being somebody big he is just a boss. It happens often enough in normal arcs.

[/ QUOTE ]That's because there is nothing special about him. He's just another Freak Tank or Death Mage.

[/ QUOTE ]

And why did Golden Sphinx or 3k Kelvin or Phil suddenly become a Darth Vader?

That Lord Recluse or Statesman are Darth Vaders. I happily agree. But there are quite a lot of plebs out there that suddenly are EB's. T3h Pwnz0r has every right to be an EB as a nobody like Golden Sphinx and yet he is not.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
So a boss doesn't need to be an EB to be a boss.

[/ QUOTE ]Nice try but you're only half right here. Bosses are Bosses. EB's are Elite Bosses, a cut above the armies of pleb bosses. Be it "T3h Pwnz0r" or "Tank Smasher" it's still a pleb, however there is only one Bobcat or Ghost Widow. It's as much about the distinction as it is about the threat they pose. An EB isn't an EB because the Devs decided that they wanted to upset the cart for soloists, they represent characters who are exceptionally powerful/talented according to the game lore.
Also, if you're soloing then alot of the EBs you're facing would have been AVs if you had a team. AV's being the pinacle of power for an NPC character, it would be criminal to downgrade them further, just so someone can blast through them like any other pleb boss. Again we're back to replacing Darth Vader with Rick Morranis in a glorified welding mask.


[/ QUOTE ]

Who is Rick Morranis? But back to your arguments. I would not dream of tackling such as Statesman or Lord Recluse alone. ArchVillians are indeed to big and nasty to grade them down. Their might and power is integrated in the background story. Note that I was talking about EB's not ArchVillains. So yes there are some arcs where this option would not apply.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand why would the big bad boss suddenly be surrounded by flunkies (hero level) instead of his most trusted soldiers (invincible level)? That also doesnt make sense Rp wise does it?

[/ QUOTE ]Difficulty level is set by the player, not the mission design. It is not logical to reason that Invincible difficulty mobs are different to Heroic ones as far as the story arc's design is concerned. The mobs around an EB/AV are his/her chosen bodyguard, whether they are even level or +2s is irrelevent. RP is also irrelevent when it comes to mission balancing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Turning of EB's would also be player decision. It would balance the mission also nicely. Instead of having to go to seas of of flunkies and then suddenly 1 speedbump. You now can have a tough fight throughout the whole mission.

Must agree with SteelRat here. Cartoonist are seldom paid by the ones they make cartoons of. Kind of defeats the purpose of their work.

I do hope we will see more of his work soon.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another thing with the likes of Infernal and Calstix. They are dangerous because of thier ability to summon boss rank pets. Even downgraded, they would still be able to summon boss rank pets. Putting asside the oddness of minions being more powerful than thier master, it would mean that if you stuggle to defeat them at EB rank you would still find them difficult if doungraded to bosses.

[/ QUOTE ]Infernal's demons only have Minion HP, don't they?

[/ QUOTE ]
I never bother to kill pets. They just get resummoned. So their hp is not what is important it is their ability to rip you to pieces. So even at boss level infernal is still a dangerous opponent because of his pets. Especially if they are at +2 levels.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But the same thing is happening already with a lot of the so called leaders you have to defeat so often (not even talking about the radio ones here). So why are those just bosses or lt's instead of EB's?

[/ QUOTE ]Such as?
I can only think of one EB that was downgraded to Boss status (its name escapes me right now).
You're also neglecting that Infernal (and pretty much any other EB/AV/Hero) is some kind of demon summoning juggernaught. Lore wise he is a whole world of power beyond a simple CoT Death Mage.
It's like Longbow agents. Wardens and Officers are the lead field operatives with boss level power. However, when a "big gun" is needed they dispatch a "Ballista". To downgrade them to Boss level would defeat the purpose of their presence.

[/ QUOTE ]

In a lot of arcs you will have to defeat boss huppeldepup. And instead of him being somebody big he is just a boss. It happens often enough in normal arcs. So a boss doesn't need to be an EB to be a boss. On the other hand why would the big bad boss suddenly be surrounded by flunkies (hero level) instead of his most trusted soldiers (invincible level)?

That also doesnt make sense Rp wise does it?

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone know if accepting Influence in game for services such as PL is against the EULA ?

[/ QUOTE ]

This has been discussed before and no it does not seem to be against the EULA.

[ QUOTE ]
The thing is, with these story arcs where there is an EB at the end it fits that they are of that level of power. Weakening them so they are no more of a threat than a regular Boss is like taking Vader and the Emperor in Return of the Jedi and replacing them with Dark Helmet and President Scroob. Sure the Stormtroopers will still offerthe same challenge but their all-powerful leaders become a joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Dark Helmet was a challenge

You got a good point here. But the same thing is happening already with a lot of the so called leaders you have to defeat so often (not even talking about the radio ones here). So why are those just bosses or lt's instead of EB's? Point is it is being done all the time. And they could still keep their special powers. Infernal would still be infernal and summon his demon horde of doom. If those are at +2 level then they would still be a major challenge to destroy.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Question; Which builds can solo AVs? Because, from bitter experience, I have found said conflicts impossible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Night Widows, /regen scrappers with high ST damage, /WP brutes, rad defenders. Quite a few others too.

[/ QUOTE ]Masterminds in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

I discovered bodyguard mode not long ago and decided to try to use it. I went shockingly through an EB like a hot knife so this might be true. I daresay it is worth a try.

I would love to see one of those giant titans in Cim to go on a rampage! Best to make one of them spawn after a successful ITF. Like one was already half powered powered up and now that its controllers are gone......

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even on my SS/WP brute I sincerely welcomed the help

[/ QUOTE ]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A SS/WB brute should storm though EBs like paper. I think you are doing something wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]

I know, I know. I am just hopeless!

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I am certain that there are plenty people out there without those resources who will have to avoid missions like that. Thereby missing a nice part of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

The EBs are what makes these missions interesting. Take away the EBs and they would still be missing a nice part of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

EB's are indeed part of what this makes the game interesting and beating them is indeed fun. And I think I got most of them (most often in big teams but with the occasional solo action as well) That's why I don't want to ban them altogether. I just suggested an option to turn them of so I could smash interesting armies of villains to a pulp instead of having to go through white uninspiring mobs to get to the EB that i can't beat at +2 levels.

But nice well written story arcs are part of the game to. They ad variety to the game as well. And shouldn't everybody be able to sample those instead of a newspaper/radio boredom?

[ QUOTE ]
Not saying he has to play the game a certain way but don't expect things to change to suit his play style. He's made a choice that he's going to limit his teaming options, but why should valuable dev time be used to cater to his needs compared to the bulk of the player base? As things stand you CAN play the game solo, but you have to make adjustments to do so. I just don't think you need to make more adjustments to make it easier for people to do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well there are a few others who agree with me that this would be a welcome option. So I am not standing alone here.

Please don't forget that unfortunately you cannot always find people to help you out. This morning i was lucky despite there only being 60 people visible on the search screen to find somebody willing to help me help me with I Infernal and Lilith (Even on my SS/WP brute I sincerely welcomed the help and that was on the lowest setting! ). But that was plain luck and having a good channel to talk to people. I am certain that there are plenty people out there without those resources who will have to avoid missions like that. Thereby missing a nice part of the game. Consequence will be that they grow bored sooner and leave the game. I would have left a few years ago if all there was, were these radio and newspaper missions.

I hoped with this suggestion to make the Story arcs more accessible to people.

I would love other things as a reward but the best would indeed be:

tromroffle:

Costume Slot!

Basicly.

Paragon City got Hazard Zones. Rogue Islands are Hazard(ous) zones.

Travel Powers and superheroes belong to each other.

So while it might make an interesting challenge I say no because of the general principle.

And the last place I want those in is those awful Orangbega maps. Those are awful enough now. It would make people avoid CoT even more.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But it'd add even more variety - if we have time travel in the game, then we surely should have zones for the periods we can travel to.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's plenty of comic/superhero stuff they can add without kshites in nining armour. We don't need that and if you are into that, go play AoC or WoW

[/ QUOTE ]

So Romans and minotaurs are ok, but knights and dragons aren't?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are no Romans in WoW.
You got a point with Cyclopses and Minotaurs, thems a greek, not a roman thing right?


/signed about the Tsoo Giant Dragon though. Nice idea.

a giant Rikti monkey in RWZ would be interesting to.

[ QUOTE ]
I think from reading this thread I'm getting the impression that Grinning Spade wants his cake and to eat it too. The XP from high mobs without the challenge of the EBs.

This game has become more and more dumbed down since NCSoft took over the IP - arguably before then too - but it doesn't need any more dumbing down and sure you can solo but this game is an MMO. If you want to get a game you can solo, then why not get an offline game? One of the major points of an MMO is that you can enjoy the team experience it seems to me, and each AT is designed to work in tandem with others. If that weren't the case there'd be one AT, a form of blappempath.

If you aren't managing to do EBs solo then get a team, or change your AT, or lower your difficulty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I DO love to eat cake.

But that is not my intention. I want to be challenged in this game, not by endbosses or EB's but by the normal mobs.

Having to lower the difficulty to beat the EB defeats my first purpose.