Golden Girl
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:The problems with that is that the people the system you're working for calls bad aren't always bad.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
When I joined the Loyalists as Responsibility, I expected to work as a cop and strive to put bad guys in jail.
When a game gives you the option of playing a law enforcement officer, but makes the game setting a dictatorship, then that means that some of the laws you have to enforce are not going to be normal ones.
For example, putting people in jail in Praetoria is not the same as putting people in jail in Pragon City - torture is used on a regular basis by the Praetorian government, so anyone you're sent to capture, especially if they're part of the Resistance, will very likely be tortured once you hand them over - so while you're not actually taking part in torturing them, you're still helping it happen to them by arresting them.
Plus, there's also the drugging, brainwashing and death squads in the Behavioral Adjustment Facility who you can also deliver people you capture to - so while the methods you use to arrest your targets are the same as in Paragon City, the fate of your targets after you've handed them over is a whole lot worse. -
That doesn't even make sense
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Quote:This means that you're a Little MonsterOriginally Posted by GeneralKnowledge
Also our goddess is Lady Gaga.
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Quote:No, those two things are inherently evil - there is no justicifation for reducing humans to a subhuman state the way Tyrant has done by denying them the free will and freedom of thought that are basic parts of human existence.Originally Posted by Dementor_NA
Things like drugging the population into submission and policing thought are the concept of law (society's control over individuals) taken to the extreme, but is not inherently evil.
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Quote:Just tell him it's a danger to society, and you'll never see it againOriginally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Think he can help me with my stat homework?
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By the way, how do you address him in the text? Like do you say "Your Majesty", or "Your Highness", or just "My Lord"?
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There needs to be a /e spitinface emote for these sorts of encounters
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Quote:Which makes Tyrant quite the statisticianOriginally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
A single death is a tragedy. One million deaths is a statistic.
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Quote:It's before - Dark Watcher tells you it'll take a few months before Vangurd can set up a water treatment facilty in Praetoria to supply clean, drug-free water to the people.Originally Posted by Hundred_Nations
More spoiler talk:
Y'know, now that I'm thinking about it again, I can't remember if the bit about the drinking water was revealed before or after you blow up the Enriche plant. I'll have to look for that the next time I play that mission. -
Quote:That would be tyrannicalOriginally Posted by MTS
/me idly wonders if the forum's ban on political discussions extends to Praetorian politics, and if perhaps it should
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Quote:You're totally misisng the point - no one claims Arachnos is morally grayOriginally Posted by Slashman
What's really funny is how much of a hypocrite she actually is.
If she really believes all the crap she's spewing, then the fact that she praises the devs on their work and continues to monetarily support a game which makes it easier and easier to cross the line to gray areas and outright evil, means that she has about as much true conviction as a hamster. Guess who creates the evil content you hate so much!!
And even if she actually 'won', what would that mean? If we all up and followed her way of thinking then we happily leave half the content of the game unplayed and unexperienced(not a word)? Just because we made the 'right' choice in terms of playstyle?
How many great games would I not have been able to play if had that philosophy? Let's see...Prototype, Dungeon Keeper, Darksiders(coming out for PC soon!), no Warhammer 40K games at all! Far Cry 2, Jedi Outcast, Hitman, Overlord.
I mean, what is the overall point? I'm all for threads discussing how morality choices affect the gameplay experience, but I don't need each of those threads to be constantly hijacked by stupid one liners and winkies. If she actually had a point to make and discuss that would be one thing. But all the rest is just silly hot air.
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Quote:Well, only if they don't boil their waterOriginally Posted by MTS
They blow up an Enriche distribution plant. It will prevent the mood-altering drugs from affecting the populace, but will also leave them without fresh water. People will get sick. People will die.
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Quote:That's not so far from the truth eitherOriginally Posted by Obsidius
All Praetorians have moustaches that they twirl. They also tie poor maidens to the railroad tracks. You can decide to either rescue those maidens or drive the train over them. No worries, it's all Comic Violence (Rated T for Teen and all that).
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Pants are now legally required for men in public in all 50 states during daylight hours.
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They just need to make the walls of Studio 55 gold plated instead of steel, and it'll look stunningly over the top and "utopian"
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And when the madman is an immortal who can survive a direct hit from a nuke, how long do you just stand their screaming "hail Cole" in the hope that you won't be the next one to "disappear" if you happen to let a "bad" thought enter your mind?
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Quote:Well, vegetables anywayOriginally Posted by Obsidius
It's a thirst quencher. It's got what plants crave!
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Quote:But that's also balanced by the fact that the people working for Tyrant have superpowers too - Tyrant vs a normal army wouldn't be much of a contest, but Tyrant vs several thousand members of the Powers Division might be another story.Originally Posted by Hundred_Nations
Actually, this is one place where stories like Praetoria's genuinely take a turn for the strange: super-powers. Hitler and Stalin weren't capable of throwing tanks and knocking artillery shells and missiles out of the air with their hands, like General Zod in "Superman II."
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Quote:You're missing the point - it's not just the laeders who are corrupt - they're not the exception in the system, they're the rule - the entire system is corrupt from top to bottom - every level of the dictatorship is rotten and vile and comitting crimes on a daily basis.Originally Posted by MTS
Only the true fascists see the world in such black and white terms. What you're saying amounts to, "You are either with us or against us," and ignores the good that people working within the system can accomplish, just because its leaders are corrupt.
The enslavement of the Seers is government policy.
The drugging of the citizens to turn them into docile zombies is government policy.
The thought police are government policy.
The regular use of torture is government policy.
The imprisonment without trial is government policy.
The tight control on the media and the education system is government policy.
The mass murder of critics is government policy.
The general repression and harassment of the citizens in government policy.
It's not a few "bad apples" or rogue elements in the system that are the problem - it's the entire system itself - the crimes being carried out are the system, not something separate from it. -
Mender Silos is now called Mender Silo - it's thrown everyone into confusion as to who he really is.
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Quote:Plus, you can also get a badge for finding one of the PPD torture centers under the Precinct buildings.Originally Posted by Divus
I mean the Praetorian Police department, specifically the PPD in Nova Praetoria. If you explore the underground it's an actual area you can blunder into.
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Quote:Yes it does - in RL, dictatorships fall once the police and/or army side with an uprising against them - if the PPD and the Powers Division turned againt Tyrant and the Praetors, they dictatorship would collapse.Originally Posted by Zikar
Sorry, the world doesn't work that way. You don't blame the police for the dictatorship.
There's Tyrant plus 12-14 Praetors - they can't run the dictatorship by themselves, so Tyrant employs several levels of administration and law enforcement to carry out his will - and everyone is a cog in the evil machine he's built - but take out the cogs, and the mahcine falls apart.
Tyrant can't run his prisons, his torture chambers, his enslavement programs, his death squads, his propaganda system, his water drugging activities or his general intimidation and repression of the people without a the massive army of willing followers he has in the Powers Division and the PPD.
If they turned against him, the entire horrific system would cease to exist. -
The problems loyalist players and Washington face is that the internal politics of the dictatorship leave you with only the one option given in the mission.
Marauder is very open about his contempt for the PPD, so if the PPD then go out are arrest his girlfriend for being a "Resistance spy", it just looks like a petty attempt at revenge, as they can't touch Marauder himself.
Normally, the standard Praetorian law enforcement procedure would be to arrest Cleo, have her tortured for information about the Resistance, and then imprison or execute her - but her reationship with Marauder, and his ties with Tyrant, makes the arrest and torture option a non-starter, so your only choice is to skip straight to the execution stage.
From a Praetorian law enforcement point of view, what you're doing is totally legal, and it's the internal faction politics that have forced your hand. -
Quote:All loyalists work for a dictatorship that is worse than anything in RL history - they're agents of evil, and everything they do helps keep the dictatorship in power.Originally Posted by MTS
Responsibility is for Heroes.
They're servants of a system that is rotten and corrupt to the core, and it's very existence is a crime against humanity. -
I think the idea of this mission is to show you how different Paretorian society is from normal society - after 1-50 levels of the game going out of its way to tell you that you're only ever arresting or defeating suspects, within a few levels of the Paretorian content, the game is inviting you to decide which person you'd prefer to kill.
Placing this misison so early on in the story seems like a very deliberate act to show you just what the place is like compared to Paragon City.