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I'm sure thus virtual Seer network won't actually lead to any of you "disappearing"
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Quote:I'm pretty sure Primal Earth would refuse your "help" if it was the same kind of "help" that Tyrant gives ot the people he rulesI don't like Emperor Cole, FYI, but only because he is too extreme. He makes choices I would not immediately make because I would give Primal Earth a chance to accept my help in pacifying the threats on their planet instead of just conquering saying "they would never change".
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Really?

He doesn't sound very open to the idea of freee will:
Quote:“People are weak. At least when it comes to doing the right thing. That is why you cannot give them the choice to do what is wrong". Really?Quote:non-canon theories 
From the GR website:
Quote:When someone speaks out against Emperor Cole or Praetorian matters, the dark side of the PPD emerges, and burly, well-armed officers come into your house in the dead of night and take your loved ones away. From the main CoH website:Quote:The Resistance attempts to awaken the populace to the reality of what's going on in Praetoria, and it does everything in its power to get would-be Heroes and Villains educated and out of Praetoria as quickly as possible. Members of the Resistance have banded together under the universal goal of stopping Tyrant and returning freedom to all.
Quote:"Emperor Cole's ultimate goal is not to hold ultimate sway over our Earth, but to conquer the entire multiverse. Until the Heroes and Villains master their new Incarnate powers, they won't be able to take on Cole, but they can slow him down. The first strike against Emperor Cole lies in weakening his powerbase in Praetoria". From the devs:Quote:"If the Incarnates are to have any hope of putting a stop to Emperor Cole's unrelenting thirst for power and domination, they must first strike at the B.A.F., or the war may be lost before it can truly begin".
Quote:Joe "Hero 1 " Morrissey:
"Emperor Cole is an actual tyrant, and he's doing things to humanity and the freedoms that we're losing because of this".
"The real threat is not the Resistance, it's the Praetorian Police Department, and Clockwork and the Seers and the Praetorian Guard".
He’s also said that inspiration for Praetoria came from books like “1984”, “Brave New World” and “Fahrenheit 451”, among others.Quote:John "Protean" Hegner:
“Tyrant needed to be someone that people could empathize with, despite the fact that he was a villain. We made Tyrant into a version of Statesman who believed a little less in the inherent good in people, and a little more in his own. This minute change was all it took for Primal Earth’s greatest hero to become Praetoria Earth’s greatest villain.”
The Powers Division “Kill more people than the other four (PPD, Clockwork, Seers, Praetorian Guard) combined”.Quote:Matt "Positron Miller:
"Praetorians do not use the normal GR system, but have points within their stories where they can choose "Loyalist (aka Villain)" or "Resistance (aka Hero)""Quote:Jesse “Ghost Falcon” Caceres:
“At one of our prior panels we revealed that loyalists were actually villains, and Resistance were heroes.”
“We made it actually really cool to be a villain, right? And that’s awesome. And players were just choosing like “yeah I want to be loyalist, I want to be the guy that’s supporting the dictatorship””.
And there's more where that came from too
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Quote:And kill anyone who opposes him, then have the entire surviving population of Primal Earth mind scanned by thre Seers to identify potential "troublemakers", who will then be slaughtered - after that, he'll move onto the next world, and then the next, and then the next, until the whole multiveverse is enslaved by the loyalists.His plans are, as far as canon, "to wipe out the threat of Primal Earth with as few civilian casualties as possible".
Liberating Europe from the Nazis isn't quite the same thing as trying to impose a modern version of the Nazis onto the entire multiverse.Quote:Was the American and British side of World War 2 evil for trying to stop Germany with an invasion?
It's no different than Cole's Invasion, especially since America only had one attack made against it, but Praetoria has had several before Cole even acted.
How very 1930s Germany that all soundsQuote:Emperor Cole is very much justified in all his actions, though his actions are a bit extreme and his motivations are a bit extreme(though starting from good intentions). 
Lady Grey must be a monster then, as she has a lot of troops under her command.Quote:Emperor Cole is a leader which is why he does more evil. Statesman is not a leader so he doesn't have the burden of doing what is necessary even if it is morally questionable, like ordering soldiers to their deaths in war.
Quote:He can't do ti alone and the responsibility was placed on his shoulders by the people, when they were not drugged. Quote:"I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent".
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It's world wide - the Resistance is found wherever Tyrant has trapped the survivors of the Hamidon Wars.
And like all his problems, the Resistance are Tyrant's own fault - by crushing humanity under his evil dictatorship, he's losing the chance to face the Hamidon with a united front, and driving people to take up arms to regain their freedom - if Tyrant wasn't a monster, the Resistance wouldn't exist.
Or like the Devouring Earth that Tyrant asked Maelstrom to summon to attack Resistance sympathizs in the Magisterium, to both get rid of them and set up another chance for Tyrant to prove to his slaves how only he can "protect" them - those DE really are useful for him - againQuote:They are safe under the protection of Emperor Cole/tyrant. They have the sonic fencing and First Ward's "Seed of Hamidon" proves that Hamidon is out there and a huge threat, not to mention all the other references to the Devouring Earth and Hamidon such as the tentacle you can see from Praetoria past the zone boundaries in a certain place. 
Even a broken clock is right twice a dayQuote:You quote canon background about Marcus Cole to use against him, but then you ignore the same canon that says he really did save the people of Praetoria and keeps them safe. 
He keeps them safe only if they obey him - and kills or imprisons anyone who opposes him -
Brainwashing, torture, slavery and mass murder are a little beyond the "questionable" stage of actions - they're pure evil.Quote:It's not in question that he protects the people. The issue is "how" he protects them.
He protects them through questionable methods, though he does protect them.
I'm surprised there's no resistance movement on Primal Earth to try and stop Statesman and the heroesQuote:1) Primal Earth is still pretty corrupt in the newer stories, rather than the old "PPD are saints and the heroes are beneficent deities" stories.
2) There are plenty of villains in Primal Earth, one even controls a nation the size of Praetoria and treats the people a lot worse. Lord Recluse ring a bell?
3) Statesman and the Freedom Phalanx don't need to set up a dictatorship. They already have practically free reign, without the public scrutiny of being at the top. They're legally sanctioned hero groups that can get away with things such as invading sovereign nations to depose the leader(STF anyone?).
And according to canon, the loyalists are Villains, the Resistance are Heroes, Tyrant's thugs are the biggest threat to Praetoria, and Tyrant is Praetorian Earth's greatest villainQuote:And as for canon, Praetoria is, and is supposed to be, a moral gray area.
That is why Emperor Cole is in power, as of the retcon with Going Rogue.
Enslaving all of existence and exterminating anyone who opposes you or even thinks of opposing you isn't a "necessary evil" - it's the actions of supervillain on a cosmic scaleQuote:War is sometimes a "necessary evil" but it is always "evil" because people die on both sides, all while the leader is safe behind fortifications and distance from the front lines. 
I'm surprised he's so keen to take on the bruden or ruling the entire mutliverseQuote:Cole is a leader. He is forced to make hard decisions, as a vigilante, because that is the burden of leadership. 
Enslave them?Quote:He literally can not do the "epitome of heroism" types of acts that the heroes in Paragon City do because they don't even work on the small scale in Paragon City.
Every arrested criminal of any higher stature is out of jail fast and at the same crimes again. They never ever do what is necessary to protect people forever.
The sonic fences keep the Hamidon out - the mass-murder, "disappearances", brain-washing, torture, thought police, drugged water supply and propaganda are there to keep Tyrant in power - they'e not connected to each other - just like the war walls were built in Paragon City without turning it into a fascist dictatorship.Quote:Seriously, the heroes of Paragon City are never execute anyone. They always have to be like the Doctor in Doctor Who and either hope the enemies end themselves or trick them into doing so.
Or, they just arrest them and turn them over to a completely inept police force and legal system.
So, if Emperor Cole was as "heroic" as the "heroes" of Paragon City then Hamidon would have won and the world would have burned in nuclear fire.
All because he would have been too much of a wuss to stand up and say "ENOUGH!" and end the clearly repeating and absolutely evil threats that his world has to face.
The heroes of Paragon City are heroes because they protect the people wothout enslaving them.
Dictatorships usually are stable - they have more ways of keeping stabilityQuote:After all, Paragon City sure has a lot of "the world is going to end" crises compared to Praetoria, which is remarkably stable.
Of destroying humanity, yesQuote:It sure looks like Cole is doing a better job than Primal Earth could ever do.
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Quote:You obviously haven't read the invasion plans - or even the out-of-game announcements for each new IssueI haven't seen Cole doing any of those things.
The invasion of Primal Earth was more than justified in my eyes, considering that Praetoria was attacked by Ultimatum, Malta, Arachnos, Longbow, Vanguard and the entire Freedom Phalanx before they finally decided to strike back in 2011. You were there during the invasion, as was I, and thanks to Synapse's blunder we both heard Cole's broadcasts live. Apart from threatening to tear off Synapse's head if he didn't shut up, I didn't hear anything that suggests Cole is a murdering psychopath willing to commit genocide, only an opposing general trying to win a war he didn't start.
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Well, even if they have to pay the full $15 for a month of rage, that still works out at a very resonable 2.083 cents an hour for them to bathe the forums in their hot salty tears of frustration and wrath
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Actually, we won't - the updated NCSoft launcher will automatically change our desktop backgrounds into various messages from the community team.
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Quote:The Freedom sale didn't start until August 22nd - the details of the new hybrid payment model were relased on June 21stMy friends and I bought CoH during the Freedom sale. Some of us are returning players, some are new. We have been playing the **** out of CoH for the past couple weeks. At $1.99 to pick up the game, plus a free month, it has been totally worth it. We were looking forward to continuing to play as Freedom launched, until the details of the F2P system were announced.
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Quote:I don't really know who he is, but going by his registration date, I assume this is some kind of ritual thing he does every so often?The funny thing is that he will probably resubscribe just so he can post his rage quit post in 2 or 3 months.
It is amazing the energy he invests in his ranting.
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So in the list of evil plans, where would you rank trying to enslave all of exisitence, and exterminate any sentient being that opposed you, as well as any that even thought about resisiting you?
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Quote:It's evil and unnecessary - that's why he's the bad guy the Heores have to fightAnd there lay the question:
"Is what Cole is doing necessary or unnecessary?"
"Is it evil and necessary or evil and unnecessary?"
Independent thinkers are kept independent because they have Vanessa DeVore's psychic protection to shield them from the enslaved thought police on every corner.Quote:How much is he controlling people? Is he just putting them on "happy pills" so they do the same things they always would except the evil ones? Is he making them mindless?
Apparently, Praetoria is still full of independent thinkers and those who still choose questionable acts so either the mind control isn't working for most people or it isn't strong and is more like "hypnotic suggestion" to do good things.
The drugs int eh water supply make people more likely to accept what the dictatorship says, which means that they think they're safe under Tyrant's "protection" when they're not really safe at all - Enriche makes people not want to ask questions, so they don''t wonder what the Seers actually are, or why people disappear, or where the Ghouls come from, or why the "popular" emperor has such a massive armed uprising going on in his "perfect" empire.Quote:Is the drugging and such really necessary?
Tyrant and his loyalists stormtroopers certainly areQuote:Are the people of Praetoria prone to violence? 
And strangely, Statesman and the Freedom Phalanx haven't deciced to set up a dictatroship to make Primal Earth "safer", and no one in any of the blue side content even seems to consider it for a moment - which is why they're heroes and not villainsQuote:Can we judge that based on the "close cousin" Primal earth and all the evil and corruption there? If we do then maybe Cole is right. If Praetoria were to be like Primal Earth then it certainly would be worse off with many more dangers than just the Devouring Earth that ended up "top dog" in Praetoria.
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Quote:And while it was an awesome addition to the Cohverse, it might also have put some people off.The storyline there just wasn't something I expected from City of Heroes
As we've seen in other threads, the majority of players prefer to play heroes, not just in CoH, but in other superhero games too - and a lot of players will have certain expectations about what a comicbook game world should be like, which would also be one of the reasons that they'd pick up the game in the first place - and which is why they could quite easily find Praetoria to be a confusing turn-off - especially as they had to make their first avatar there, and it wasn't clearly explained that they could just log in then log out and then make a normal Hero or Villain as their next avatar.
Praetoria as first glance seems to ofer all the classic comicbook world requirements - it's a city, with parks, skyscrapers, backstreets, factories and even some slum areas - it has a police force, government departments and officals to interact with, civilians going about their business on the streets, and criminal gangs lurking in the shadows - the basic facade is identical to Paragon City, because that's the classic comicbook setting - but past the facade, the problems start for people looking for a normal comicbook environment.
In superhero comics, which are set in the real world, usually in America, there's a natural feeling that laws are mostly fair, that cops are mostly good people, and that the government is mostly working in the best interests of the people who elected it - so the heroes don't really have to worry about helping any of them in their work - when heroes arrest people, they're genuine criminals who'll be dealt with fairly by the authorities.
That clasisc comicbook set-up is reflected perfectly in the blue side content - we arrest criminals, assist the police and government agencies, and even work with the UN for some of the major threats - we sometimes run into rogue elements like Longbow agents who have become vigilantes, or corrupt PPD officers - but these are always presented as special cases, which is why we're called in to take them down.
At no point are Heroes ever given any kind of suggestion that helping the authorities might be a bad thing to do.
But Praetoria takes that classic comicbook set-up and twists it right round into something very dark and creepy - it has the classic superhero city setting to patrol and protect, but right from the tutorial, players are shown that there's something very, very wrong with the authorities that a comicbook hero would normally assist without a second thought - players who arrest people in Paragon City know that they're criminals they're arersting, and that they'll be put on trial, and sent to prison if they're found guilty - but players in Praetoria find out that the people that they arrest will be brainwashed, tortured or executed - and that unlike Paragon City and other normal comicbook settings, the people they're arresting mightn't even be guilty of any real crimes.
You can fight for truth, justice and the American way in Paragon City, but not in Praetoria - and that's one of the main reasons that Praetoria has a problem with attracting players to level up in it.

