GenericVillain

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What does a boss having no end have to do with the speed at which you kill it? Few if any mobs appear to have defensive powers which require endurance.

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Simply put, the less time spent hittin the boss does, the more time spent hittin your character can do, as opposed to healing, popping greens, whatever. Not to mention you aren't getting hit by acc/dmg/whatever debuffs as well.

That may not have been what that person was talking about, it may just be a psychological effect too.

Its not the hit, but just being swung at. Minor nitpick I know.

And like I said, the fury generation of lightning field is indirect in that it gets you more aggro in team situations and holds it to you, which results in more fury on the average. Again, just a minor nitpick, but it does in a way generate more fury which is all I was saying.

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And, for the record, Lightning Field DOES NOT GIVE YOU FURY!

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Actually... in team settings, damage auras also serve as taunt auras getting you more aggro, which gets you more fury.

Kind of indirect fury generation, but it does serve to keep aggro glued to you. At least blazing aura works that way, so it's reasonable to assume lightning field does too.

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IF people where planning on skipping it (for Acrobatics), well now they're using the same amount of powers, but using less END (if Grounded stays a passive).

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Actually, my build has gained a power because I'm going hasten/superspeed/grounded instead of hasten/cj/sj/acro

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Dull pain is nice but won't stop some psi mob from brutalizing an inv tank, it just gives them a few seconds more to stand there as they get brutalized by ZERO def/res to it.


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Against Psi, assuming aid self is taken, invul has 2 self heals (one HUGE heal that takes you from 45% hp to full health, including your 60% health boost), and more health gained per tick from regeneration thanks to DP.

Against toxic, assuming aid self, electric has... aid self.

Further add in that even against only one enemy, invul has quite a sizable amount of defense. tough hide and invincibility against just one enemy amounts to something like 13% defense (tankers have 17.6, but I believe brutes have 75% tanker numbers) (I'm factoring in both tough hide (5%)and invincibility against one enemy (6% for the first). That's an effective additional 26% damage mitigation on just one enemy, which is something like an effective 41% resists. (on top of something like 21% elemental/energy resists, again assuming 75% of the tanker 28% resist numbers).

Take note that this is electric's numbers (higher than n.e. too), for everything except energy (but invul has higher s/l resists which is more common).

And it only swings more in invul's favor the more enemies that enter your invincibility's radius.

And that's not even factoring in DP's pseudo resists, which is like multiplying on 37.5% more resists. It also 'resists' self heals since they don't scale, but for the purposes of comparing invul to electric, it doesn't really matter since neither set has a self heal (outside of invul's dull pain, which completely fills your life anyways, plus you'll never activate it while dull pain is running, so the topic of resisted self-heals isn't a factor with dp). Factor in aid self and even still, the regeneration boost means invul still comes out quite ahead.

Not factoring in self heals, against one enemy, invul has an effective 63% resist against said damage types, not to mention 37.5% resist against psi damage.

Dispute my numbers if you will but invul comes out quite far ahead of electric in terms of defensive capability. As it should.

Btw, if you wanna claim that I shouldn't be trying to convert defense to resistance, then I can just call it damage mitigation, where invul has .21 resistance (.79 damage taken) and enemies have .37 base accuracy(.5-.13), which becomes .79*.37 = .3 vs electrics .41 resists (.59 damage taken) and enemy's base .5 accuracy (no defense) .59*.5 = .3... exactly the same.

Both take 30% damage over time (60% if you don't like factoring in enemy's inherent 50% miss rate). That is until you factor in dull pain. And more enemies entering invincibility's radius. Then invul clearly wins.

You guys? Were you replying to me out of convinence, or was that remark directed at me? Because I most certainally wasn't writing off invincibility. It was one of the factors I included when I said Invul was better than electricity defensively.

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DP is not interuptable like Aid Self so hitting a blue then getting interupted after trying to heal for electric will not go so well.


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There's an emp blast thingy at the end of power surge in the electric set that incapacitates the enemies around the electric brute, giving you time to pop blues/heals/raise shields/whatever.

Assuming it hits. Also, aid self really isn't that hard to get off. I'd be more worried about dying than a properly slotted aid self not going off.

But you are right that an invul tank can also take aid self and have 2 heals.

Electric still has more resists than invul, however. The pseudo resists that DP gives aren't true resists as heals don't scale with the new hp. Still, I think that the defense, resistances, and the super healing and regeneration boosts that DP gives, passes up electric's defensive ability quite nicely. Except maybe against energy attacks. But it should because invul is pure defense, and electric has LOTS of utility.

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ummmm... HP/end drop witch means no dull pain for you tell you get alittle end back

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I believe people save blues for the crash so they can go crash/blue/DP/other stuff
Electric will be able to go crash/blue/aid self/power sink/conserve power/raise shields/continue on like normal. With their nuke at the end, they might even survive long enough to get it all off.

I don't think it's that impossible to fix. Say they changed the power like this.

First they make an invisible, intangible pet. Casting chain induction summons this invisible pet on your location. The pet attacks the target you cast it on (a lightning bolt). It then instantly teleports to that enemies exact location (hovering, in case the enemy is in the air).

It then immediatly attacks an enemy within a certain radius. If it misses or there are no enemies in its radius, it disappears. If it hits with it's bolt, it immediately teleports to that enemies exact location. Rinse/repeat.

Put in the buffable pet patch and apply it to this pseudo pet, and voila, all damage counts towards your exp.

The teleport would of course be instant, and the 'animation' for the lightning bolt attack would be just long enough for the bolt to arc from one enemy to another.

I have to agree. This set sounds just about perfect. Only real drawback is no power can go unpicked :< Even the Electric Aura is a musthave because as people should know, aura pbaoes often contribute more towards your overall damage than any other attacks.

Does anyone know how much the movement speed boost is from lightning reflexes? Namely, I'm wondering what a build with 3 slotted LR, sprint and swift for run speed would be like compared to SS. Besides slot expensive.

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The most simple method of solving the problem would be to change the attack to a ranged AoE with a casting range of 5' (melee). Problem solved.

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There's no bouncing back and forth between 2 enemies over and over, which is what makes chain induction cool. Assuming that it currently does this on test. I know my sorceress in d2 loved chain lightning for this reason. Nothing like back and forth for massive damage.

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FYI: Electric Shields' Grounding Power will have Immobilize and Knockback Protection added. The set will still not have a Heal power or HP Buff power.

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_Castle_, I think I'll quit if you ever leave

The sudden rush of air everyone just felt was my sigh of relief at the breathing room in my soon to be elec/elec's build. Still tight for room, but now I have the option of getting superspeed as a travel power since I want hasten anyways, and saving 2 power slots over the old build.

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I have just sold myself on Dark Melee/Electric Armor and stamina be damed

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You'll still be hurting on endurance until 28, and even then, probably still until 35.

One consume isn't really enough. I have a dark scrapper that tried to make a no stamina build and rely on consume.... I can function on teams, but I run out of end pretty easily. It does make things interesting tho. I pay lots of attention to that dc recharge .

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As has been said before, this getting rid of the health pool and making it as part as a leveling reward

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I didn't suggest that, and no one else here suggested that, that I know of. I'm actually against that idea myself. I think having stamina as a selectable power is a good idea, I just think 2 prereqs is a bit much.

I would rather they combine hurdle/swift into one power (without reducing either power), change travel power SOs to a generic "Travel Speed" SO, move stamina down to the 14 power, move health down to fill the other level 6 slot, and add in some random level 20 power (like a quickness clone for example, or a self heal, or some team aura travel speed booster toggle, or even a useless power, I don't care).

This would satisfy the people who have to have swift, satisfy the people who want stamina earlier, and pretty much everyone wins... except the devs won't ever do this. I've seen this suggested at least once, probably more than that, without so much as a red name response, so it's safe to say that stamina is working as intended.

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as the set does not offer defense, only resistance thus making Aid Self a useless power choice.

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I agree with most of your points, but aid self isn't useless for resistance sets. Slotted up with int reductions, it's possible to get it off in the middle of DoTs.

I like having conserve power and power sink in the same set... especially since we can't get conserve power in our ppps now.

I still don't know what 7(!) powers to drop for all the pool powers I want, but I know that lightning reflexes + hasten + conserve power + build up will be one heck of an attack string, especially with a high amount of fury. 2 or so minutes of non-stop attacking with all your biggest attacks at high fury would be nuts.

Here is my biggest problem

Too many good powers. First time I've seen 2 sets and wanted EVERYTHING (sans taunt).
Too many holes

I'm having serious problems trying to figure out what 7 powers to drop out of my elec/elec to cover all my holes. (for stamina, hasten, aid self, and acrobatics).

This doesn't look like a beginner set to me. Some serious choices to be made. Fire it was easy. A lot of useles powers like ROTP and temp prot and burn and breath of fire. Electric... everything just looks so good

Probably not... I pmed _Castle_ asking him if fury affected pets and he said he was pretty sure it didn't, so it's reasonable to assume nothing else affects pets either, espeically since self-damage boosts don't affect any other pets currently in the game.

But then again, the buffs affecting "pets" like burn change might change things for real pets too (maybe accidently) so I can't say for sure.

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Everyone I asked said it was 75% because like scrappers it is secondary set which is why the mez sucks against longbow, 3 nulifiers hitting you with beanbag and no more toggles.

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Everyone you asked is wrong. The 75% number you are probably getting is that brute's shields are 75% as effective as tanker shields, just like scrappers. However, the resistance caps for brutes are still 90%. The mez protection has nothing to do with resistance caps either.

I've always thought of brute's as the "Potential" AT. They have an incrediably high damage cap and resistance cap, but they can't hit either without a lot of help. Heaven help those in said brute's way when he's at both caps.

The resistance cap for brutes is indeed 90%, but they can't hit it without help (except, apparently, electric energy resists). It's one of the reasons why a lot of tankers fear (unneccessarily in my opinion) the day brutes can swtich over to the hero side.

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As I understand it, it doesn't actually prevent Immobilization, but rather just lessens the time you are affected by it.

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You understand it wrong. It can be overwealmed like any mez protection, and a lot of immobs will still slow your movement considerably even with combat jumping on, but it most definately doesn't merely reduce your immob time.

I'm not sure why you think the powers would be impossible to respec. I'm pretty sure that if you respec, starting at level 41 you can start pulling powers from the patron pool you picked or from your primary/secondary/other pools.

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As far as I know, this is the only set in the ENTIRE GAME that gets psionic resistance (not defense) (I don't play/know dark well, so whatever)

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Dark Armor has psi resistance too. And the weakness to kb, but it also has the best self-heal in the game.

So does ANYBODY have durations yet on the aoe immobs?