Gen_Prot_Fault

My only comment is to not to forget that the to hit debuff enh's are now schedule B (5/10/20), not schedule A (8/16/33) as the builder currently indicates.

Well, finally hit 37 and took my 2nd respec (saved it until 37 so I could change enh's at the same time). So I thought I'd post my updated build here for anyone that's interested ;-)

I definately agree with Valkryst that Air Superiority is superb, but I missed Incinerate, it's a great little attack, and one of the better single-target damage ones in the fire melee "tree".

As it is, I had a bad habit of using Air Sup -> Fire Sword -> Cremate -> Auto Boxing so my chain was sometimes broken and this fixes that too.

Overall, seems pretty decent to me so far, and I'll take Fiery Embrace at lvl41 or higher since the PPP's definately leave me a couple of spare skills to get ;-)

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Makie
Level: 40
Archetype: Brute
Primary: Fiery Melee
Secondary: Fiery Aura
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Fire Sword==> EndRdx(1)Rechg(5)Acc(5)Acc(13)Dmg(15)Dmg(25)
01) --> Fire Shield==> DmgRes(1)DmgRes(3)DmgRes(3)
02) --> Cremate==> EndRdx(2)Rechg(7)Acc(7)Acc(13)Dmg(15)Dmg(25)
04) --> Healing Flames==> Rechg(4)Rechg(11)Heal(34)Heal(34)Heal(34)
06) --> Air Superiority==> EndRdx(6)Rechg(19)Acc(19)
08) --> Incinerate==> EndRdx(8)Rechg(9)Empty(9)Acc(17)Dmg(17)Dmg(33)
10) --> Boxing==> EndRdx(10)Acc(11)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Swift==> Run(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --> Plasma Shield==> DmgRes(22)DmgRes(23)DmgRes(23)
24) --> Consume==> Rechg(24)Rechg(39)Rechg(39)Acc(40)
26) --> Fire Sword Circle==> EndRdx(26)Rechg(27)Acc(27)Dmg(31)Dmg(31)Dmg(33)
28) --> Tough==> DmgRes(28)DmgRes(29)DmgRes(29)EndRdx(31)
30) --> Build Up==> Rechg(30)
32) --> Greater Fire Sword==> EndRdx(32)Rechg(33)Acc(36)Acc(37)Dmg(37)Dmg(37)
35) --> Blazing Aura==> EndRdx(35)EndRdx(36)Taunt(36)Dmg(39)Dmg(40)Dmg(40)
38) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(38)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> EndRdx(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Fury==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------

yeah, that's exactly my view, the defense is nice, but otherwise....

Now, as you say, if there was something nice as power #4, then I could easily take one of the others as the "price" for that, but as is power #4 is actually worse than a hold I had to leave out of my build pre-40. So obviously, I'm gonna get the one from my 2ndary over one I have to spend 3 points to get.

[ QUOTE ]
Do heroes have to have epic pool powers?

[/ QUOTE ]

I asked a mate this a while back, and was told no, there is a high chance you WON'T want to heavily invest in the epic/patron/ancilliary power pools, and instead will fill the missing stuff you wanted pre-40 but couldn't get.

In particular, I was asking if I would be able to take my lvl38 2ndary power for my brute after lvl40.

It does seem imbalanced, I mean these are my gut reactions for my 2 main chars:

With my Bot/Dark MM, I can't really see much except the defense I'd bother with, I don't use ANY attacks at all, instead concentrating on debuffing/buffing, so I'd be more likely to fill in some gaps there (and maybe take the hold). I certainly don't see any major incentive to take 3 powers from one of these pools, unlike every other AT which at least get's a pet.

My fire/fire brute's a different story, a ranged attack could be handy (especially with knockdown for the mace), an AoE hold would be extremely useful for AoEing and the pet's just icing. Some form of status protection would have been nice, but can't have everything.

[ QUOTE ]
a fast way to build Fury without using much End is just to alternate Boxing and Brawl on the first few easy mobs in a mission (it's partly the reason I still have a Recharge SO in Boxing) - Fury builds fast, it doesn't cost much End, then once your Fury hits 80-90% you can get into your usual attack chain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that's a great idea, gonna give that a try. Since I notice in teams I never get much rage really (what with bots and other brutes and stuff).

Thanks again.

Well, I respecced last night, and took Air Sup and Boxing (and took Build up instead of Aerobatics, until level 30).

I was definately unsure about Air Sup, but I gotta say, it's a total blast. Knock down, couple attacks, knock down, almost feel sorry for those poor mobs.

Kinda miss Incinerate, but it can't be helped, something had to give and Air Sup is definately more useful to me.

I do generate rage a lot faster, but I'm running out of end faster now, presumably due to the faster cycling attacks. Guess it's time to take and slot Consume, didn't really need it before ;-)

Thanks for the advice guys, Air Sup is prob the most useful skill I've got for survivability.

I see you're point mate, but then again, /EA doesn't have any of the significant debuffs associated with /Rock and that's an important factor as far as I can see. And since they're the only two DEF bases sets rather than RESIST, that's the only comparison I can make.

I wouldn't like to comment on how much less or more effective 12.5% (base) defense (ea secondary) compared to 22.5% (base) resist (most of the resist 2ndaries) would be though.

I do know that my /fire brute at lvl25 is quite non-squishy enough for my liking, and that's before I've even got Tough, to add another 17.55% (with SO's) Lethal/Smashing resist. But as the man said, we're not tanks

Oh, and btw, the latest hero builder is 1.7.6.0 and can be obtained from http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php (hope it's ok to post that link, moderators remove it if not plz rather than delete the post).

Please, feel free to post your build Valkryst, I'm pretty sure I've got a good idea what I'm going with this brute now, thanks to all the great advice you guys have given.

When you really sit down and look at it, having finally got an idea of how to play a brute and what's needed, there's not really that much you can fiddle with with a fire/fire brute really. Your travel form is fixed by needing Aerobatics, Boxing is a pre-req for Toughness, which is inarguably useful and stamina is needed of course. Maybe all brutes are like this, I'm not sure, but surely it means that all fire/fire brutes will be VERY similar

Only things I'm undecided on atm, are:
* Air Superiority - for some reason, I find myself wondering if I really want this, so I'm going to take it before I respec and see if I like it, before committing to it. I guess my attack chain would be kinda crappy with just Boxing, Fire Sword and Cremate though. I guess the main reason is due to below.
* Build Up and Fiery Embrace - Would love both of these, but at what sacrifice. Hence why Rise of the Phoenix is swapped for Build Up in my newest build. My temptation to not take Air Sup is due to trying to save a skill for this (though I'm sure I'll take Air Sup once common sense prevails and I've tried it)
* Rise of the Phoenix - Would love to have this as an emergency fight turner (and good for soloing) even if it is very situational, another reason being it would give me something move interesting than Build Up, Tough, or Aerobatics to look forward to at 38 . Maybe I can take it at 41 instead if need be.

Anyway, a couple of thoughts to add to the accuracy, etc debate:
* According to hero builder, the base "hero" accuracy for PvE is 75% (50% PvP), with one SO adding 33% (75 / 3 = 25%) making it 100% (though the cap is of course 95%). So the only reason I can see for slotting more acc is for higher level mobs, when you get debuffed (CoT, etc) or PvP. Though I'd swear I can tell a difference in the miss ratio with only one SO in - but maybe that's just me thinking "crap, shoulda slotted more ACC every time I miss"
* Aerobatics "Mag1" protection from knockbacks. Does this work well across the game, or does it become useless later on, when presumably mobs are dropping more knockbacks on you?

One question though, is it worth 3 slotting Health with 3 heal SO's (to make it up to +80% healing), or isn't it worth bothering with beyond the one slot it starts with?

Interesting, so nobody really seems to double-slot acc, except for pvp?

Thanks again for the info guys, got a pretty good idea what I'm doing now, compared to the start of this thread, when I had no idea whatsoever

Hmm, think I can make a viable attack chain without Air Sup? Mate just pointed out I forgot Build up, since it stack with Fiery Embrace for some SILLY AoE dmg ;-)

What you've said about Incinerate and Scorch totally meshes with my experiences. Incinerate was awesome at lvl10 and is now already a highly situational spell to me, at best a fast DoT, rather than a chain attack.

I'm using Brawl as an auto-attack, and even then it's not a good attack chain for me with Scorch, Fire Sword, Cremate and Incinerate. Also I forgot about Toughness, so I need to drop something to take Boxing anyway (bye bye scorch I think).

Is Air Sup that useful? or it just a handy quick attack with the ability to bring down flyers?

Surprised nobody's suggesting slotting more than 3 def enh's as well, don't they give less benefit than normal SO's? so ED won't kick in until about 4 or 5 of 'em?

Assuming I go with Air Sup, and take Swift rather than Hurdle (trivial change). This is what I guess I'm looking at as my spec for the mo, unless anyone has any other suggestions ;-)

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Makie
Level: 41
Archetype: Brute
Primary: Fiery Melee
Secondary: Fiery Aura
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Fire Sword==> Acc(1)Acc(3)EndRdx(3)Rechg(5)Dmg(31)Dmg(33)
01) --> Fire Shield==> DmgRes(1)DmgRes(17)DmgRes(21)
02) --> Cremate==> Acc(2)Rechg(5)EndRdx(7)Rechg(11)Dmg(33)Dmg(33)
04) --> Healing Flames==> EndRdx(4)Rechg(7)Rechg(9)Heal(9)Heal(11)Heal(40)
06) --> Boxing==> Acc(6)Acc(13)EndRdx(13)Rechg(15)Dmg(34)Dmg(34)
08) --> Air Superiority==> Acc(8)Acc(15)EndRdx(17)Rechg(34)Dmg(34)Dmg(40)
10) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(10)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Plasma Shield==> DmgRes(16)DmgRes(19)DmgRes(19)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(23)
22) --> Blazing Aura==> EndRdx(22)EndRdx(23)Acc(25)Acc(25)Dmg(27)Dmg(27)
24) --> Consume==> Rechg(24)Rechg(29)Rechg(29)
26) --> Fire Sword Circle==> Acc(26)Acc(37)EndRdx(39)Rechg(39)Dmg(39)Dmg(40)
28) --> Tough==> DmgRes(28)DmgRes(31)DmgRes(31)
30) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(30)
32) --> Greater Fire Sword==> Acc(32)Acc(36)Rechg(36)EndRdx(36)Dmg(37)Dmg(37)
35) --> Fiery Embrace==> Rechg(35)
38) --> Rise of the Phoenix==> Rechg(38)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==>
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Fury==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------

Yeah, after posting saw some threads with ideas. Seems Burn is useless atm, though may be different in I7.

Not convinced whether Build Up and Fiery Embrace are both needed, as you said. Build up can probably go. Presumably they don't stack?

Not sure about fire breath, if it's the same as the corr's then it's prob not all that useful bearing in mind the lvl26 and lvl32 AoE's.

Also noticed some poeople recommend Boxing and Air Sup instead of Incinerate and Scorch. Might have to look into that, since Toughness could be handy, and already incinerate is losing it's usefuleness (lvl17).

Definately after Fiery Aura, even though it's an end hog ;-)

Also, not specific to fire/fire but what's the consensus on slotting defensive toggles, how many +dmg reduction SO's to people usually slot in them?

Again, thanks for all the info guys, helping a lot, can't wait to get a bit further so I'm past the major end drain problems ;-)

Got to lvl16 and I'm definately enjoying this char. Need a bit of advice though, all the skills I *think*
I would like, I can't fit in. Can anyone advise which of these isn't worth bothering with?

I get the impression that Temperature Protection isn't *that* useful (got plenty of fire protection anyway) and Rise of the Phoenix is nice to have, but not mandatory.

These are in no particular order, just selected quickly from the builder, I obviously, wouldn't build my char with the skills in that order ;-)

01) --> Scorch
01) --> Fire Shield
02) --> Fire Sword
04) --> Cremate
06) --> Healing Flames
08) --> Combat Jumping
10) --> Incinerate
12) --> Swift
14) --> Super Jump
16) --> Plasma Shield
18) --> Health
20) --> Stamina
22) --> Acrobatics
24) --> Blazing Aura
26) --> Consume
28) --> Burn
30) --> Fire Sword Circle
32) --> Greater Fire Sword
35) --> Breath of Fire
38) --> Fiery Embrace
41) --> Build Up

Again, thanks for the info.

It's interesting you mention the animation times for Scorch and Incinerate, because the hero builder says they 1.67, faster than Fire Sword, but sure don't seem it, almost seems like it's using a "draw weapon animation" first. Maybe another instance where the hero builder is out of date *shrug*

lvl10 atm, and took incinerate for the moment to fill out my attacks. With full rage and that I'm already starting to laugh like a maniac as I pop it on a single target, and then attack something else as it quietly dies behind me ;-) ).

So far so good.

Thanks for the info guys.

So far I've got her to lvl7 and she's having a much easier time of it than my dark/dark, but that is partly because I've a much better idea of how a play a brute now (with my dark I made the mistake of taking too many toggles early for example).

rage wise, she seems to generate less rage that my dark/dark. even though the first three attacks in the fire/xx tree are nice and fast, but the extra damage more than makes up for it.

And yeah, I'd already specced for Aerobatics, because xx/dark has the same issue.

I assume I'm going for fitness ASAP, even with consume? and I've been told hasten is good for a brute. any other good pp advice?

Yeah, that pretty much summed up my thoughts as well, plus I know a en/fire brute and his defence certainly isn't poor.

Maybe I misunderstood, the topic was discussing pvp as well, so maybe I missed something. I'm mainly interested in PvE and solo anyway.

Thanks

Some people indicated that fire/fire was a bit gimped, can anyone elaborate?

I'm currently playing a dark/dark brute and want to try a variant with a bit more attack variety and AoEs.

Thanks

Yeah, as Banmido says above, I ended up making a MA/SR stalker, and like him very much.

Thanks again for the feedback guys.

Thanks for the responses guys. I'm thinking on passing on EN for the mo, because I'm more likely to use that on a brute perhaps.

Was thinking along the lines of MA/xxxx. Which would be the best match for that pve/solo without giving too much functionality up (i.e. Ninjitsu has some nice debuffs, etc while Regen just seems to be about recovery).

Thanks Again,

I'm mainly going to be PVE, so I'm not particularly worried about PvP viablility. Also going to want to be able to solo effectively.

Any suggests what would be a good starting point?

Seems to me that stalkers may have issues with self-healing and aggro, so I'm not sure which way to take one really.