Fugacity
-
Posts
164 -
Joined
-
Quote:I'll assume you meant HO's when you said IO's, no big deal, typos happen. Apparently the game developers care about what was intended. That the exploit gave people extra options on how to build their characters I have little doubt, but using exploits and expecting them to never be fixed is a fool's wager.Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Who cares what was 'intended'? The way the IOs work now, allows people to enjoy them, and made the IO's valuable. It gave people extra options on how to build their character. It made running hami raids and stf's more worthwhile. Apparently that all happened accidentally, but all I'm seeing are positives.
The only reason the enhancements were worth so much in the first place was the large demand by players who wanted to use a well known exploit. When it became public knowledge that the exploit will be fixed with i22, of course the value of those enhancements dropped. The only players limited by the exploit being fixed are those who chose to use it.Quote:Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Removing them destroys most of this type of enhancements value, as evidenced by the drop in prices in the markets. It limits peoples choices in how to build their toons. It makes running the tf's that grant them less worthwhile.
As can be inferred by Combat's following statement and mathematical derivation, by utilizing the HO exploit his Shielder was six times stronger against defense debuffs than it would have been without it.Quote:Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
And all of those negatives correct what horrible, game breaking situation?
Significant enough that without use of the exploit, he no longer deems the character worthy of playing.Quote:Originally Posted by Combat
I responded to claims that it wasn't that big a deal by showing that a relatively small change in DDR of 25% would actually make shields 6 times weaker to debuffs.
Quote:Originally Posted by Combat
I'm seriously considered deleting a 50 over this, something I have never done. I didn't think it would effect me this much, but it really does take a lot of enjoyment out of playing my DM/SD. I enjoyed him because he was consistent. He wasn't hurt by most debuffs, didn't have a mez defense, and had solid damage. I know, SR was weaker than SD in every aspect, but now I have no intention of ever playing one of my characters again and I am currently in the process of stripping said character of all enhancements. It is too bad I can't strip his incarnate powers down too. -
Quote:Can you slot a Defense IO or SO in Active Defense and gain DDR? No you can not. Had Active Defense been intended to work in that way, you would be able to slot Defense IO's and SO's to gain DDR.Originally Posted by _Pine_
I keep seeing people comment that HOs let you do things that were 'unintended'. Isn't Perma Hasten unintended, Perma PA, Soft Capped defense on a resistance toon with no defense (Regen, Elec, blasters and controllers) unintended?
Can you currently(pre-i22 release) slot an HO that gives +Defense in Active Defense and gain DDR? Yes, and until i22 is released you will still gain an unintended benefit by doing so.
The other cases you've declared as possibly unintended are only achieved by IO sets, specifically global recharge and defense bonuses. Have IO set bonuses been declared as known exploits by the devs as the HO exploit has? No, therefore they must be working as intended.
Outside of a poster's declaration of emotion(ie-"I'm angry about..."), no one knows what that person feels. It is from their words alone that we will know what they think or feel.Quote:Originally Posted by _Pine_
Secondly, how do you, a random person on the internet, know what other random people on the internet feel and think. -
Quote:Attempting to justify and downplay your use of a well known exploit does not change the fact that it is, by definition, an exploit.Originally Posted by Combat
I think it is very telling that you use the word exploit. It implies a certain level of cheating, of game-breaking, when used in an MMO world. It paints those that use it with a broad brush, and it equates this with things that truly affect the game-world, like AE farms and kheldians one-shotting hami. I don't use the word because it is an exaggeration. The HO-bug isn't by nature abusive and didn't guarantee unbalanced levels of rewards for those that used it. At worst, it slightly gave shield an edge on balance by making it too well-rounded, and I have agreed that other sets should be closer to shields in regards to balance (by raising the DDR in other sets and making SR better).
I have said no such thing. I have neither called you an "evil exploiter", nor have I said that you are "bad for the game". My stance this entire time has been that you are exaggerating the effect of an exploit fix in an attempt to draw sympathy for having used it in the first place. You knew it would be fixed someday, but you chose to use it anyhow, so accept responsibility for your actions instead of continuing to attack straw men in your attempt to avoid the facts of the matter.Quote:Originally Posted by Combat
And almost everyone of my posts was a reply to people trying to demonize me in one way or another. Demitrios has put it most blatantly, suggesting I and every other player that used it get banned, but JustBling, you,and others have all made arguments that people that used this glitch to gain either slightly higher defense for less slots or higher levels of DDR (and of course the PBU thing as well, but I never used that) are evil exploiters that are bad for the game. -
Quote:I think it is very telling that you refuse to say "exploit fix" or "exploit", instead favoring words like "changes" and "bug". In any online game, true exploits(like the use of +Def HO's in AD to gain unintended DDR) inevitably get fixed, especially those that are abused the most. Writing pages of straw man arguments in an attempt to garner some kind of sympathy does not change the fact that you abused a known exploit and are now upset that you will no longer be able to do so.Originally Posted by Combat
However, understand that one my biggest points against this changes is this is cuts the usefulness of HOs in about half for me. They were only overpoweringly imbalanced before the multitude of nerfs towards them, and now are mostly overpriced curiosities.
HOs allowed me to create a melee character with enough survivability to face most content and the ability to solo a wide amount of AVs. But I can do that without HOs on numerous characters, and better. I didn't use the bug because it made me more powerful than all characters, but because it created a gameplay style I enjoyed (and I've advocated giving other defensive sets similar abilities). If I had wanted a more powerful character, I could easily have made one.
There's no need to call the exploit fix a "nerf", because that's exactly what it is not. It's a fix, plain and simple, to something that was never meant to be used the way players like you have used it. Your other comparisons are like apples to oranges. -
Quote:This exploit fix is not "giving it(SD) a new weakness to a very common threat", it is removing your ability to game the system by giving Shield Defense a level of DDR it was quite clearly never intended to have.Originally Posted by Combat
And just so people listening at home can understand what I was trying to argue:
My personal reason for disliking the change was that it changed the feel of SD, by giving it a new weakness to a very common threat (my DM/SD character was created as a thought experiment originally, as a melee character that could solo the broadest swath of content).
The rest of your argument is merely a straw man. -
I love inviting players who are jovial and intelligent, players who speak English rather than "l33tspeak", and most importantly players who are willing to play through and finish a TF they have joined.
I also like inviting those I've teamed with before, especially if I've rated them, as I usually only rate players as 1's or 5's so I'll know what to expect from them. If they did something like the Dr. Q TF with me and stuck with it to the end, that's an automatic 5 star rating. If they bailed on the second mission of Synapse TF with a lame excuse, then they earn 1 star. If they're funny or just plain good people, that's a 5 star rating. If they're antagonistic jerks who do or say anything just to get attention, that's a 1 star rating(and probably an ignore).
Other than that I just like teaming with new people. You never know what kind of gems you'll find in the rough. -
Quote:To be clear, it's not a "change", it's an exploit fix. What you liked the most about your shielder was his ability to use a known exploit to become more powerful than he was meant to be in the first place. The devs fixing this exploit does not equate to a "QoL nerf" for anyone but exploiters.Originally Posted by Combat
To be clear, I'm not angry about losing what I liked about my shielder. I can fairly easily replicate everything that he did on another character, though I am said that I will lose the invested time and effort I put into him. What makes me angry is that this change is not positive in any way. At best, it is a QoL nerf. And when developer time is used to negatively impact the playerbase, something is wrong. I would be willing to lose the ability to slot membranes if it meant that HOs were buffed to the point of actual usefulness, but right now it is just a net loss in usability.
-
There is no such thing, why would I want to limit my choices?
I realize that many gamers enjoy using only the "best" sets sets to make the game a trivial button-mashing exercise, but to me that gets boring fast. I've had a lot more fun playing "under-performing" sets, having to figure out what it is I have to do to win, rather than just rushing into every mob for the inevitable win. -
Quote:Is it rational to compare what 8 support characters can do with what a single melee character can do?Originally Posted by Combat
And yes, I know that diminishing returns should NEVER happen. But still, any combination of 8 defenders, controllers, corrupters, or VEATs is more broken by definition than any melee character can possibly be.
Your basic argument in this thread seems to be that since Shield Defense will no longer be the number one and best possible defensive set, then it therefore has become be the worst set. Doom and gloom! The reasoning just isn't there, however, as you have brushed aside up to half the powers from /SD to try and make your point seem valid when comparing it with other sets.
For years the general consensus on these forums has been, "Why go /SR when you can just exploit /SD and get soft-capped defense with the same DDR plus a whole lot more?". Super Reflexes has been the red-headed stepchild for far too long, mainly due to a well known and long abused exploit.
The only trick /SR has ever really had is not getting hit, so it just makes sense that it should be the only set that can achieve capped DDR without much effort. Shield Defense still has a host of tricks up its sleeve that /SR will never have: higher base hp, passive and (oh snap!) clickable t9 resists to most damage, toggle damage boost and damage reduction for foes, tele-nuke. -
Quote:So if you skip a power then Shield's DDR drops to the same level as Energy and Ice, but only if you choose to skip that power?Originally Posted by Combat
Energy and ice actually have comparable levels of DDR to shield without grant cover, which many view as the most skippable power in the set.
Shield has OwtS(moderate +resists, +health, +recovery), True Grit(+hp, minor damage resists), AAO(+damage/foe, -damage to foes), Shield Charge(AoE damage + KD), plus its click status protection works against Fear where Practiced Brawler does not. Poor Shield Defense, it really is going to be worse off than Super Reflexes now, isn't it?Quote:Originally Posted by Combat
Every single set has options for mitigation outside of their defense except SR and SD.
So, when you neglect roughly half of the powers in Shield Defense and focus on DDR only, it really doesn't seem to size up to all the other sets. Funny how that works.Quote:Originally Posted by Combat
Ice has hoarfrost for healing, hibernate as an escape, and energy absorption to gain a little extra defense at will. Energy has energize and energy drain to sap and restore/buff defense. Invuln has good resists and dullpain, and has 50% DDR, which is comparable to shield without GC. Stone of course has granite, and earth's embrance/rooted for regeneration. Willpower has excellent defenses and resists along with its defense.
What does shield have? 17% resists to all outside of tough and OwtS, and some minor -damage from AAO. That is basically nothing. -
Quote:That was in fact the very nub of my gist.Originally Posted by Generalissimo
Not to put words into someone else's mouth but I believe the Nelson meme pic was pointing out the humour in the quote "calling this an exploit is over-stating it. I used the exploit because" as the poster immediately called it an exploit himself after saying that calling it an exploit was overstating it.
-
Quote:Originally Posted by Combat
Too be honest, calling this an exploit is over-stating it. I used the exploit because...
-
Good job devs on fixing a long standing and much abused exploit!
*plays tiny violin for all the exploiters* -
Quote:So what sort of trick, puzzle, and gimmick-free AV fights would you consider to be a "challenge"?Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that it doesn't really matter where these sorts of gimmicks appear, be it TFs or iTrials, they are weak sauce game design elements just the same. A lazy way of delivering a challenge no matter which part of the content they affect.
Special text wouldn't be necessary if they didn't resort to lame "tricks" to turn the iTrials into a puzzle-solving exercise reminiscent of a Rubik's Cube. LLR'U'RBL and you can take down Penelope; anything else at that stage and you just end up with a cube more mixed up than when you started (i.e., you lose).
Without an answer to that question, it seems that your type are the ones being elitists. You're all judging the iTrials from on-high and finding them all wanting, without making any suggestions that would improve things or be superior "challenges" compared to what we currently have. If you don't like the iTrials then that's your prerogative, but to say you don't like them because of X, Y, or Z and then be mute as to what you think would make for better mechanics is just weak sauce. -
Here's a build I made to see if I could soft-cap S/L and get perma Hasten, Light Form, and Inner Light. It works once you've got T3 Total Core Spiritual, but it's yours to copy or get some ideas from. Good luck with your build, Bill.
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1577;687;1374;HEX;| |78DA65945B4F135110C7672FA5B650DAD25240A07768A1B4D0E8BB51894653A08AA| |F862CB24093DA366D31BEFA29BC805FC117AFAF7E20046F8906619DDDF953567B92| |CDEFEC9CB99D99D95D79BA3CF4E6F6B36BA48CDCAC1B9DCE46D5341E999BED5A63C| |76C7B578DEE5EDBA893BDBCFCCCB84F37D6B6B7CD46A7F6C42C55F61ED71ACDBDCE| |C60DF6D1CDFEA3B56CF6695D67A7E13B8D5DB36D36BAA5F38DBFDA6CD64BEB2DD3D| |C0A38DB5BB59DDD2E3B1972DE2AA6D1E297E0F9CB96D9EEECD65A34CE7915F9F9ED| |212CCB43CF19399DE65E08E75F82FBE08170F1B34A14D1E9D0B6551C5BA231DE4CE| |B74E281882C5D813F15FE54F89B7B05C2EF11DB68B0D1AA6C5DD6495F032BC2DC0A| |B82A3C651B49DDD23C55465AA7817BE07D61765D78E6913ED8FEBD6FC9B1BFF41EF| |C20F47F14663F09D36CE093BB29BE0274401A201A84BF41F81B7A07C2EFF07FFEB8| |BA1480BFC081D46F785FA870AC20EE127C20398770A710EE90C29D148E1D866E183| |A23B8F70874E2B0D1D86F44626A918CE2D43A1A0713C2784AF883F31BC59D46D183| |187A10430FC6D18371F440F74ADBD9461D1B1559310A86A0C3F94E60BE264E54477| |6F90F782A9C3A032D61DC9E06E64FCE69526C9549D43E07C638F634666F1AB13D1C| |2B815809C44A225612B192889542AC14620DB06D1A754D7F97B3CC31F80DFC2AFCC| |579CDA0AE3369A9DF2CEA398B7ACEA2CE61CE338F1AE591E7226AB4881A4558A780| |D928BC969958C06C44F9AC24795109F62ACB9690EB12E6A58C59286306CA9881433| |F7F8FA8939291DA1DB9657725CF2F6E595EF48EDDB2A4C8A6F4DEFF4223C45E40EC| |05C42C9ECFA1A36B3BB0ACFC851D11F29877CB2C5EB4D42729F749AEF449AEF6492| |A6E89265DABEABD3F132998225FA8F7E7B1D6F5DE174F3E54BAEAB77B22E70F5D7B| |C3B5DF74ED9DB512615B08FE02E398F187| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
-
Quote:Balderdash.Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Poppicock.
-
Drats!
Out mature'd again by Rhyme Tyme and the Caps-Lock Gang!
Git along, Rational Argument! Git Along! -
Quote:The problem I'm seeing from those who have stated a dislike for the current iTrials is that they are "not hard" because they rely on "gimmicks", and that they are "binary". Those complaining give no advice on making more interesting trials that are gimmick-free, challenging, or "hard", instead they state that are taking their ball and are going home unless trials are made to their unspecified specifications. The only requested changes they make rely on different "gimmicks", LR's towers, Nictus from ITF, etc. A gimmick by any other name is still a gimmick, albeit the ones mentioned as being superior are so familiar that they can be button-mashed until the inevitable win.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Here's another acronym for you: ROI.
Return on Investment. Building these trials isn't free. If people are ignoring them to the point that the developers start asking why they're not popular, any arguments about how players should rise to the challenge fall by the wayside. Maybe would the trials would be better if we had more players who wanted that type of content, but if we don't have those players, calling them names really misses the point.
Yes, the trials are binary, in the same sense that everything in this game is binary, win or lose, complete it or don't. For anyone wishing to do something that is not binary, I have suggested the button mashing farm, carefully designed to offer little to no chance of losing and all the rewards you can carry. The return on investment doesn't get much better than AE farming. Yet, for merely pointing out this truth I have been called elitist and raised one person's blood pressure so much that I fear he has caught a case of the vapors. -
Quote:Has it been mentioned? I can't find any mention of it in this entire thread until just now, so I believe you are mistaken. These trials seem to have made you angry, but you insist that they are not "hard", so I guess you have completed them many times and are just bored with the mechanics of them, then?Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
This kind of elitist condescending response to legitimate concerns is part of the disconnect that has been mentioned.
Yet another who claims that these trials aren't "hard", so if that's true then how many times have you completed them? I'm just wondering, as you have obviously mastered them to the point of being able to label them one way or the other.Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
As has already been said, these trials aren't "hard".
I've completed both TPN and MoM half a dozen times or more each with the teams having no "set" group of AT's. There are a few AT's you can bring that will make things easier, but you don't have to have anything like your "holy trinity" to complete the trials.Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Why don't we just run down a straight hall and beat up everything in the way. Then we win when we get to the end with our holy trinity of Healer, DPS and Tank?
Fit that cookie-cutter baby! -
I'm really not sure what all the fuss is about. If you're on a team of experienced players who are willing to pay attention and work as a team, the latest trials are no harder than Keyes or UG. But if your idea of fun is standing in one spot and button mashing aoe's until you inevitably win, then you're probably not going to enjoy these new trials.
The mechanics of the TPN and MoM are pretty straightforward, and if you pay attention to your screen you'll even notice a timer for when the pink patches of doom are about to drop. If you can't develop a strategy to deal with that, well, maybe you should yourself find a nice farm, stand in one spot, and aoe until you inevitably win. What a fun and rewarding challenge that must be. -
Quote:What you have said about iTrials preventing players from running Task Forces and MSR's is demonstrably untrue. As I stated in my previous post, MSR's happen about 1.2% of the time on Exalted in any given week, it's simply a non-issue. I've formed and been on multiple Apex, Tin Mage, and Lady Grey TF's while iTrials were being formed in the same zone...again, it's a non-issue.Originally Posted by elvnsword09
Pocket D, a cross faction zone with easy access back to crafting and selling zones on either side, simply makes more sense to me, then choking the walking area around Lady Grey and stopping people from running LGTF, MSR's and even the new task forces for Tin Mage and Apex Task forces get ran less because of the crowd in RWZ spamming the broadcast with LFM or LFG messages regarding Incarnate Trials.
If you feel that these TF's and MSR's are not being run often enough, then I suggest that you should take some initiative and form them yourself. Then you will see what nonsense this entire subject of one zone vs. the other really is. If, on the other hand, you're the kind of player who sits around hoping and dreaming that someone else will start up whatever TF or event that you would like to do, well, having Exalted move the iTrials to Pocket D will have no effect on your problem.
I agree completely.Quote:Originally Posted by elvnsword09
It isn't a BIG deal...
I find it hard to believe that the hallway is so overpacked that you can't exit the Vanguard base in less than 30 seconds from reviving. Perhaps the problem there lies with your ability to maneuver your character in general. Might I suggest going to Firebase Zulu and purchasing a Raptor Pack so you can fly over all who stand in your way and prevent you from completing your mission?Quote:Originally Posted by elvnsword09
Sometimes, especially with certain masterminds, I think it is fun for them to try and choke the hall as much as possible. It is REALLY frustrating when I have a timed mission in the RWZ and I die, and have to run through the gamut of players waiting on iTrial attendees just to get back toward my mission...
Actually, yeah there is a standard zone for iTrials on Exalted. It's the Rikti War Zone, and until the leaders who come out and form the iTrials decide that doing so in Pocket D would be a better idea, it always will be.Quote:Originally Posted by elvnsword09
As it stands there isn't a standard zone for iTrials... -
Quote:It's a matter of perpective I suppose. While Disintegration is Beam Rifle's big trick, it isn't necessary to always use it in order to do good amounts of damage.Originally Posted by Broken_Wings
This is my main problem with the set, I tried it on a blaster and dropped the character when I found myself wishing the group would not kill the enemies too fast.
...
I'm a blaster and my powers are reliant on the enemies not dying too fast, wait, what?
Would your opinion differ if you were on a Fire blaster and your group killed most of the mob right as you launched Fireball? Fire's one trick is extra damage, and if most of the mob is dead already then you've wasted an awful lot of damage now, haven't you? -
Does it suck that I wasn't the first one to think of exploiting this? Sure, why not. I could have more than I ever wanted, needed, or deserved, right?
Does any of this really affect me? No, not in the least.
While I understand that some people's OCD demands having the absolute "best build", sparing no expense for a mere percentage or two of gain here or there, afk PvP IO farming hasn't affected my gaming experience at all. I have made many characters that function as well or better than builds that probably cost ten or twenty times as much influence. To quote Eric Clapton, "It's in the way that you use it, boy don't you know?".
With Hero/Villain merits, Reward merits, and Astral/Empyrean merits, any IO recipes I could ever want are within reach if I choose to put in the time to get them. As far as purple and pvp IO's go, I don't use them unless they are random drops, or are relatively cheap(confuse purple set, 2 pieces of the purple pet set). It's not important to me if someone looks at my stats, doesn't see "Ulitmate PvP Whatever x 5", and tells me that I suck without them. Hopefully the way I play will make them think, "How can he possibly be so good without Ulitmate PvP Whatever x 5?!?!".
Maybe it's just that money in a game isn't important to me at all. If I can scrounge up half a billion influence, then I've got more than enough for my next project. Everything else I'll need will come from doing TF's, Hero Tips, SSA's, and Incarnate Trials.
Would it be easier for me to find a way to cheat the system so I can have infinite money and best of the best IO's? Sure, but why stop there? Why not farm all of my toons to level 50 before I play them, fill them up with purple/pvp sets, and then realize that I'm not happy with how the toon performs because I have precious little experience playing it? How much money is enough? How many IO'd toons do I really need to be happy while playing the game? At what point am I just collecting really expensive relics that do nothing but collect dust?
I guess it all depends on what reason a person has to play the game. Some play to impress others, I play to have fun. I pug as often as possible from level 1-50 so I can meet the broadest range of players, and I have rarely been disappointed with what I have found.
There are many exploits used by players in this game, but PvP IO farming is just the tip of the iceberg, in my opinion. -
So what is everyone going to wear when they attend Statesman's funeral?
I thought about wearing a tuxedo, but that just doesn't seem right, so now I'm thinking about wearing a plain all black suit. The real question though, is should I wear a black cape to go with the black suit, or should we stop wearing capes for a while to honor Statesman after his death? -
Much ado about nothing, really. Consider...
How often do MSR's happen on Exalted? Twice a week for about an hour each(unless cancelled, which has happened a lot during this holiday season).
How often do iTrials happen on Exalted? Any hour of the day, seven days a week, at least when people willing to lead the iTrials are logged in.
I don't see a problem with having iTrials form in RWZ, especially considering that only about 2 hours out of 168 hours, that's a whopping 1.2% of available game time per week, MSR's happen. Besides, when an MSR does form, many players(myself included) join it to help, either on our 50+ Incarnate toon, or on our alts.
So to reiterate: Much ado about nothing.
If iTrial leaders choose to form in Pocket D, players will migrate there because that's where the action they're seeking is. If iTrial leaders choose to continue forming in RWZ, then players will stay there because that's where the action they're seeking is.
It's really not as big of an issue as it has been made out to be in this thread.