Front_Loaded

Some strange perceptions of how people have reacted this set. I can't recall anyone besides just Zen_Concern who is actually okay with no knockback protection. Almost no time has been spent defending the holes in the set or pretending they're not there; some number of people have simply gotten over it, because it's fixable and the set is pretty interesting.

If you post ideas in a thread like this and you don't see players e.g. me going wild over it - so what? I'm not on the dev team, what do you care if I'm impressed with your idea? And all these threads have gotten so long and trashed up with various people's personal forum fencing that to be completely honest, if I was on the dev team I'd stay the hell away from them, because they're annyoing as hell and as you imply, signal is totally drowned out by noise. After the 50th "Hey this set doesn't have knockback prot, ti si teh gimpz0r" post, I'm sure it gets pretty unpleasant to read if you're the guy that designed the set.

If you have a real suggestion for the set you would like to get noticed, your best bet is probably to PM someone who can do something with it, or email. As to who to contact, you might PM Cuppa or Cricket and find out, or just ask them if they can pass it along. I'm sure it would take some time, but your idea would be received in a completely different atmosphere from this alphabetical septic tank.

If you plan on being a "tanking" brute, Lightning Field is going to be pretty much essential as your main way of keeping aggro. If you don't, that's a power you can pretty well skip (myself I plan to skip it).

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I may be giving the devs more credit than they deserve, but isn't it pretty likely that they're aware of all these holes?

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Of course not, they created the set like they do everything else: Stabbed keys at random while drunk, blindfolded, and "engaged" with two hookers. Were it not for the dedicated and courageous posters in this thread, nobody might ever have found out. And thank god they're continuing to remind everybody because, ya know, when you're drunk and blindfolded and getting it on with multiple hookers, you have a lot going on in your mind and something as trivial as YOUR JOB can slip under your radar.

Max graphics settings except for the fluff (AA, Deptho of Field). To me it looks like a blend between Gaseous and Tendrils aura, Static Shield. It seems to wave/stream a little bit as you move, but that could just be my perception. Color is red (surprise). The aura appears to extend out from your body maybe 6 virtual inches in all dimensions.

Hey I heard they still haven't put in toxic resistance! And you know what, still no knockback resistance or immob resistance!!!

This just in! An important update:

This set has no knockback protection!
This set has no immobilze protection!
This set has no self heal!
This set has no +Defense, so you might be interrupted when using Aid Self!

Is there a way to automate daily updates on these things so their status can be brought to everyone's attention?

Your point was, since a Blaster's "primary" and "secondary" are not rigidly described as "control", they should never be able to "control" a tank (e.g. via stun) under any circumstances.

My point was, since a Tanker/Brute's "primary" and "secondary" are not ridigly described as "control", they should't be expecting mag 4 stuns either, but they get them. I don't ask that that should be taken out, because that would be bad for everyone, but I just highlighted that particular incidence where the rigid conceptions of "the fighter" and "the mage" and "the cleric" break down. And not in a bad way either.

I don't think that's an extreme or stupid way to look at it at all. I do think it's extremely stupid to invest more effort in this debate, when the great majority of responses (not just from you, but you are definitely included) boil down to "but it's SUPPOSED to be like X".

And ps: dividing the frequency a power occurs by 100 is the same as reducing its effectiveness by 99%.

*really, really, really exits thread*

*I mean it, dammit*

Hurdle + Combat Jumping is very much faster than Swift and staying on the ground. Different people have different opinions about CJ and what to put on it, but I notice a difference with Jump vs. without. I do not notice a difference with DefBuff vs. without. It gets you less than 1% defense (base of 2.5%).

No Jacob's Ladder? Shame.

Stimulant is a popular choice over Aid Other, to give some status resist to your squishies. In either case I sure wouldn't slot it. Those slots are more useful on Havoc Punch by far imo, you'll rarely ever be called on to toss Aid Other but you'll be throwing Havoc Punch every few seconds.

I think it is very likely that in the later game, with Powersink, you won't need end redux in all your toggles. More slots you might free up.

Might think about 3x interrupt redux instead of the 1 cost redux on Aid Self, again particularly after Powersink.

Might as well take it to 50 now that the cap is raised.

Hey you're right. I don't see Control in tanker or scrapper primary OR secondary roles. They need to take hold/disorient etc. out IMMEDIATELY! How is it EM gets a boss-level stun? Clearly iniquitous! No fair!



I was just pointing out how people keep funneling every aspect of character mechanics into specific pigeonholes, and you kindly provided another example. A recap of how things "should be" according to many in this thread:

- Blasters should stay at range
- Tanks/scrappers/brutes should usually or always win when someone enters their melee range (many people have said exactly this, in so many words)
- Tanks/scrappers/brutes should just have to start their toggles and hit 1 2 3 4 once or twice to win any fight
- Blasters must get a team to even think about pvp, but tanks/scrappers/brutes should never have to
- Character A, with ~200% (?) hitpoints of Character B *and* 80% or more smashing resistance, 10+ BI attacks at a base damage of 80% is .... balanced ...........

Why am I bothering? It's in, heads are jammed wayyyy up there, and I like the new Brute sets. *goes off to play her brute*

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more like "you should need someone with dedicated mez abilities to bypass my mez protection, solo"

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So while we're adhering to a rigid tank/healer/damage/crowdcontrol model, shouldn't it be expected that a tank or brute shouldn't actually be able to get any kills themselves, but get a damagedealer. I considered putting a question mark after that sentence, but frankly I don't care about your answer.

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30% unresistable damage wasn't cutting it when resists where 2 to 3 times higher than they are now.

When toggle droping was first introduced, Tanks could hit Energy and Elemental resists in the 60-88% range. Now its more like 25-30%*. Scrappers are even lower.

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But the great majority of melee-range damage is smashing, particularly for /Electric and /Energy, and nobody had their defenses cut that much in that department. Once again, and to be more specific, why do you think toggle drops were added to the melee-range hits?

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Now that people are testing the set, people should shut up about KB protection because they talked about it before.

Do I have the sequence of events down properly?

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Yeah, that's about right. Shut the hell up about knockback, everyone knows it, it's in and it's news to nobody at all. Might as well complain about Fire and Dark not having knockback protection.

Heh. Why do you think toggle dropping was added in the first place? Because the 30% unresistable damage wasn't nearly cutting it. How many attack cycles do you think a blaster is supposed to wait through vs. an EM tank or brute at the extreme of the scale?

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Is it so f-ing unreasonable for a power that protects us from mez, actually give us some protection from being mez'ed?

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If in the past you only ever fought toggle drop users and they always got your status toggle down in their alpha, sure. I think we all know that's a lot more uncommon than it is a given though, certainly in PVP zones on Infinity and Protector, the servers I play on.

PS: see Powerhelm's post for another perfect example. It's a common viewpoint, many cases in point throughout this thread.

Generally if you are tagged with one immob and you turn on Combat Jumping, the immob is cancelled, or if you already have it on you might not even notice. Immob does indeed appear to have a mag that can stack just like Disorient or Hold, and my experience agrees with GenericVillain.

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I eat break frees all the time on my scrapper and tanker. This is because there are holes in their status protection - fear and confuse for my tanker, and confuse for my scrapper. However, I have a perfectly good power that should make break frees unnecessary for most uses of holds, stuns, and sleeps. Do you think that it's unreasonable to want a power that protects you from these effects to actually protect you from these effects? If you want to break my status shield, grab a goddamned controller.

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"You should need a team to beat me solo."

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Which are strangely unclickable when you've been mezzed after your Unyielding or Rooted or Wet Ice drops.

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It is irritating to see this harped on over and over and over. Just because you're playing tank/brute/scrapper does not mean you are on a higher plane from everyone else and should simply never ever have to eat a breakfree. It would never occur to me when playing ANY character, brute or tank or whatever, to enter a PVP playfield without a few breakfrees. Refusing to make use of a readily available and very effective tool that is pretty much a requirement for everyone else is simply bad tactics, and imo nobody should be rewarded for stubbornly using bad tactics.

Repeatedly pushing this forward also seems to me to glaze over the fact that you CAN carry breakfrees just like everyone else, and much of the complaint in this thread would be simply irrelevant.

Tough 3-slotted is what, 26% smash/lethal?

ps: thanks for the numbers

Argue with someone else. Bye now. *plonk*

That is a good point, although you still have -jump to contend with if you do end up taking Jumping, and both Quicksand and Caltrops apply -jump.

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My biggest problem is the fact that people say take SJ for your immob and KB resistance, except you can only have either superjump or combat jumping on.

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Both powers have an activation time of 0 and recharge time of 0, and immob doesn't prevent you from activating powers, it's not really that horrible to click a button when needed.

Where did I say "you are stupid if you don't take this"? I pointed out that the effects the power grants are useful and valuable. Did I ever say anything like "only smart people will take this power" or "you're gimped if you don't take this power"? By contrast, some others have tossed around implications you're a gimp and a moron if you take Grounded, and in fact none of them have even tried it yet, and at least some appear to be basing their judgement off of completely irrelevant experiences (e.g. your dark/dark corruptor).

If you want knockback protection, get knockback protection, that's not a big point for me because it is easily solved and I got tired of arguing about that a month ago. If you think the set sucks, don't play it, and if a lot of people agree with you, then they won't play it either. Eventually that gets addressed and the set gets buffed e.g. Trick Arrow's recent halving of most of its recharges. I think everyone is well aware now that the set does not have knockback protection, and I don't think anyone has said they are happy that the set does not have knockback protection. This stopped being news the day after they announced it.

Okay, if you want a more exact number, I don't think anyone out of scrappers or tanks had any defenses DIVIDED BY ONE HUNDRED - going from two guaranteed toggle drops to .05 x .22 = 0.011. The poster I responded to was the one who brought in the term "proportional".

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The resistances you get with the toggles is nice. In the scheme of things, the minor boost from the passive is fairly pointless and arguably not worth a power and two extra slots.

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Okay, then don't take it. Are you trying to convince everyone everywhere that it should never be taken under any circumstance? Why would you bother? You don't want it, don't take it. Play your character how you please.

Your perceptions of how frustrating endo drain can be in the high game are very different from mine, which is fine. Personally I despise it and find it frequent enough that I am pleased to see a set that looks to be strong against it. Okay with you?

Please do not get the impression it's my faq, I didn't mean to give that, I just spread the gospel of Confuse. Cforce wrote the faq.

edit: I clarified my sig, probably should have had it that way in the first place.

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It may have been confirmed in a PM, thus Statesman addressing the question of whether they'd be getting rid of melee attacks.

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He also said they'd be giving Tankers what Brutes ended up getting, Fury. Blaster secondaries are pretty fun and please many paying customers, if they do anything profound it'll involve adding NEW sets rather than taking away the melee attacks in nearly all the secondaries. They do goofy things sometimes but they're not stupid.