Fanservice

If people were complaining that we were promised a box set I'd say fair deal, I only recall it being mentioned once though. I wasn't talking to the thread as a whole anyway, so no need to be quite so defensive.

As for the rest of the points. The EU isn't NA.

You can't apply the same logic to both. We're a big group of different countries, they're a pretty freakin' huge unified one. They presumably still get a good return through game stores on PC games, while we're slowly seeing them disappear entirely.

Yes we'd get a few more players if the boxes hit the shelves here. But they're not going to do it if it just ends up wasting more money than it brings in. Deriding them for being fiscally responsible isn't helping, suggestions of how better to spend the money might!

I'm amazed at the number of people in this thread who have marketing experience.

C'mon, the games four years old and the UK isn't all that big. Game shops barely stock PC games anymore as it is and music CD's have dropped right off the radar too. I'm glad Cryptic isn't wasting the money on putting out a load of boxes that just aren't going to sell. Anyone here who wants a box is probably going to still hit up the Digital Download. Yes it sucks to lose the chance to own a box, but really is it that big a deal?

If people haven't heard about CoH by word of mouth yet then MMO's probably aren't their thing to begin with or they never really planned on buying it.

Now an advert on Steam or getting Penny Arcade to do a comic? That's worth a go, but don't demand they toss money away on something they've already been told is a bad idea.

Blackgate is built (Or at least funded and helped with design) by Bruce Wayne and he's tried to improve it as a place to keep villains incarcerated a few times.

Also they can't imprison people on the moon or in deep space. They don't OWN those places nor have the right to extradite people there. Batman doesn't mind breaking and entering, but he draws the line at outright abuse of human rights.

It's just the way his world works. There's nothing he can do to keep them permanently out of the way. Not kill them, retire, blow up the world or lock them in a super special prison. Arguing that one way is 'best' because his current one doesn't work is a bit silly.

All of Batman's villains were there before him, or started without the intention of getting his eye. None existed entirely because of Batman, except the Joker (But he can't ever get his origin story straight, so maybe not)

Just one or two got obsessed. The Joker and the Riddler respectively and the Riddler's pretty harmless because you can't prove you're smarter to a corpse. He leaves the justice system to deal with them and really its their failing that's the problem, not Batman's. But hey, Batman has recurring Villains in the Main Continuity and its part of the draw. Don't like it, read one of the innumerable spin offs where he doesn't.

Same for Spiderman. Venom would have found someone to posess if it didn't find Spidey. Van Kraven is the one exception, but he's really a gag Villain if anything.

Also Gotham, if not the world, would have been destroyed a few times if not for Batman so that does get him some big bonus points in the Hero category!

Batman not killing is a fairly integral thing of him being Batman. Hell despite what everyone usually assumes, he's the most steadfastly moral of all the DC heroes. Usually. Of course some Writers miss this by a mile and make him a psychopath, but that's not really compelling.

Of course that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people in the DC who really should have killed the Joker by now that aren't Batman, or at least he'd have been heavily medicated, but that's not how the main DC continuity goes.

Which isn't to say it's never happened in alternate continuity comics. Kingdom Come pretty much starts off when a new hero kills the Joker and it goes rapidly downhill from there.

Vigilantism was biggest in the Iron Age comics and really the key theme of it all was that the Heroes ended up pretty much no better than the Villains. Killing people changes you, doesn't really matter how you justify it and its a rapid decent from being judge, jury and executioner to the whole system breaking to bits as the Law gets ignored and everyone starts to take justice into their own hands.

Part of the problem I see with it, is we have the Justice system because it tries to give a fair punishment. Its not always right and far from perfect, but there's a rare criminal who everyone can agree on the punishment for and death isn't something you can undo easily in CoH. Its happened, but its rare. If everyone's given a licence to kill then there ends up being a whole lot of bodies.

Or in short. Vigilantes are rarely the level headed and thorough investigators needed to be sure that their brand of justice is fair and tend to be so sure of thier own opinions that they rarely consider anyone else's.

Amusingly, I have a character that might well be the same in mind but as far from a Vigilante as you can get. But at least they're not killing anyone.

Not to mention Heroes killing people in Comics makes everyone mopey, the world gets grim dark and even more crime ridden. Thighs get larger, feet dissapear and the pouches.... my god the pouches...

I think a Vigilante can have selfish motives. Killing criminals who caused you past pain is probably the most common type we see in comics and killing them to make yourself feel better is a fairly selfish act. It also rarely works as they slowly lose their marbles in their own personal crusades.

The Punisher of course is probably the archetype for this sort of character, but there's plenty others!

Shaking her head, Fanservice has busted out the 'Teacher catching someone chewing gum' avatar mood set "Trying to paint Longbow as being as bad as Arachnos just doesn't hold up under examination. Longbow have accountability, no they're not perfect, sometimes bad things do happen but the people who commit, say, murder or manslaughter are incredibly rare and they've all been tried and convicted. Ms. Liberty may not be liked by people here, but she's also a hard-liner when it comes to the law and wouldn't accept her own to be treated with any more preference when they do wrong than others. Perhaps she gets that from her dad too."

Relaxing into a more natural pose, she goes on in her usual cheerfully explanatory tone "After all Longbow's standards have been criticised for being TOO tight and not allowing in people with even a slightly disreputable past. A warehouse fire a year and a half ago is a tragedy and something that i've no doubt has reprocussions for those involved. But Arachnos has a list of crimes to their name that's so long over that period that to rehash them here would take a good few hours and attempted world domination features on that list. More than once! For them there's no accountability, other than Don't get in the way of Recluse's plans, they're free to rob murder and steal as much as they like otherwise."

Shrugging, the avatar gives a light laugh "I don't get how people can even compare the two. There's simply no comparison. Yes, Longbow make mistakes. Yes, they do have heavy weaponry. Considering the odds they're facing it's not just prudent to have those weapons, it's practically insufficient. I worry for my life when tangling with Arachnos and I'm near invulnerable and strong enough to crush steel. Only a few of the Ballista have even close to my level of safety or strength and all the rest are making do with very slanted odds against them."

"Maybe there hasn't been an investigation into what happened because... well what's to investigate? The Villains attacking us is hardly a new development. The Corporation is on tape as having killed, or at least dealing the injuries that eventually killed, Pious Hunter and hasn't issued any denial to the contrary, hell I bet if anyone can find a statement off them it'll be gloating. In fact there's substantial evidence from threats issued that they also premeditated the whole thing."

The avatar gives a laugh, before pointing declaratively to the sky, "I don't mind a good conspiracy theory. But this is a really, really bad conspiracy theory when I can poke holes this big in it!"

"It seems to me like more unwarranted Rogue Island aggression that's finally hitting the public concious. The thugs of the Islands have always been desperate for attention and maybe they thought trying to start a war might finally make them more than second stringers?"

Coughing Fans bites back a retort "Apologies, I think this whole things just got people grasping at straws for a culprit within easy reach. There may not even be one, he could have just died of his injuries. They were fairly extensive and we all know exactly who delivered those, so you could say the most obvious candidate for the blame here isn't that hard to pick out."

"She doesn't sell weapons to murderers, that'd be all kinds of illegal! It's possible to own a weapon and not be some kind of serial killer, millions of people manage it in America every day. Not to mention armed forces are far better at providing security when they're actually, y'know, armed."

Giving a little huff, she crosses her arms "That logic is just so tortured and makes way too big a jump to be credible. There's no evidence at all of Molly's guilt in this, if this is really the best you can do then we should probably move on to something that isn't just navel gazing."

"Wasn't the point of that letter to be condemning Pious for that very approach?" says Fanservice, rubbing the side of her head "That's a pretty big left at the traffic lights to get to her wanting to murder him to hide illicit weapon deals that no one's got any proof actually occurred. I don't mind a good discussion, but you can't just blurt out random unfounded accusations, we'll never get to anything good!"

Smoothing back her hair she laughs "I've never really known Molly to take a step wrong, she's a really responsible girl. To jump from that to murder just sounds crazy, especially without any real proof."

Matching the room, though with an unbroken white star, is the small mockup of Fanservice Girl in her ever popular Statesgirl outifit. It was rumoured that the real life heroine paid a tidy sum to get the name off a previous user when she found it was taken and Wikipedia confirms it as true. On the internet that's good enough to be a fact.

"Not to mention who'd she be selling these weapons too?" Fanservice says with obvious puzzlement on her face. "Longbow get all their equipment off NATO and a few Ms Liberty subsidiaries and Arachnos' have their own suppliers too. Maybe it was a good chance to show off her weapons in a combat theatre, but that's hardly illegal or worth killing someone over."

The avatar seems to have good natured built into it and the cheery looking mock up is backed up by an equally positive voice "As for her going on to lead the Hero forces after Pious' death, maybe she did it so she could try do it right? You don't just give in the first time things go wrong after all, you try your best to make good of a bad situation. I've gone on to fix messes that disgusted me at the time they were skirting the borders of legality, that doesn't mean I was complicit in them. Just hand tied."

It's more than a mass suppression of free will, its a total removal of people's core character. No one's going to be the same if they can no longer feel hate, everyone hates things. I hate long queues, McDonalds and Radio 2 but I don't really think any of that makes me a monster. But this goes deeper than that, it's essentially telling people what they should think on every level so they can never make a wrong choice. Talk about a dull and stagnant world.

You'd find precious few people who'd be either willing or open to having their minds purged of any 'Improper' thoughts. In fact wouldn't Facade also have to edit himself? I'd find it hard to believe he doesn't hate things, else he wouldn't even be affecting this change. At which point he'd no longer be the person who'd started all this and.. well it just sounds full of holes and messy from then on.

The world could already easily make enough Prozac to have a world where people on the whole aren't going to cause trouble and be happy, but that's not really a world I'd like to live in. This is even worse!

But let's say it's just extremism that gets removed. But how do we draw the line there and once you've pushed it back, doesn't whatever is at the boundary now become the new extremism? Eventually we'll end up again with the original problem, a world where no one gets to make any choices anymore as the ever present Overmind has already picked the 'right' one for you.

Of course it gets even worse when Facade doesn't stay beneficent. Power does corrupt even the strongest person, give them total control over someone and eventually they're going to start abusing it and then things will get really hellish. When the entire world is your plaything... well yeah, i'd think Professor X really would mind screw him right there and then. If he's even asking this question, he's already on the slippery slope best to do it before he goes all the way.

Everyone loves a good Gumshoe! I've no idea why a grim pragmatic outlook on life is so endearing.

Very nice Ellen, i'm looking forward to more.

Pretty much, I mean it's not like we were all clamouring for a forum merge.

EU RP has always had things from the forums go into the game. Threads like IC Rumours and Stories let people do the side stories and creative writing without being tied into anything, while the IC threads either take people out of play or are rather unspecific about when exactly they happen. Occasionly a thread gets ignored if it die or goesfruit loop crazy, but otherwise some of my characters even started on the forums!

Claire's eyes narrow at this, and her voice is definitely getting all the more clipped and worn "Amazing! He acts clever now and yet foolishly in a fight, sadly the other way round would be better. At least he now admit he was wrong. Even if everyone here is so cowardly as to give a speech and then run away like children."

Pointing to Ibuprofin she replies to Acid "Thank you for your concern too, talk is already being done. For now we make sure those responsible feel some regret at a poor choice so a repeat is not made, she will go faster if we do not bother her. She will no doubt do her best for Krill, although she has already done much I fear it will not be an easy fix."

Claire let out a long sigh and the support suit made a tiny adjustment to compensate for the lost moisture. She wasn't really equipped to argue this sort of thing verbally, she knew simple phrases and if people went too far off them she just nodded her head and waited for them to get back to something important, which they'd repeat in a simpler way if she didn't understand. She'd left the whale, de linked and tried to shut it out. It was a damaged mind and she shouldn't use its senses, or it may interrupt her thoughts and then she would become damaged herself. Claire had gone to speak to Susan face to face, but Susan was very angry and would likely not want to talk right now.

One thing was definitely on her mind though as she waited for nerves to calm, and she has a try at expressing it with her usual mish-mash speech, "I do not understand all this nonsense. We are, all of us heroes. If you work only with such fire in your heart then you should have leave it to those with gentler ways. They all expect better than this from us, killing is too easy for our kind. We wear masks not hoods and we do not get to decide who is up for execution. I find it puzzling, that you act great in your motions but when it comes to your actions you invest only the littlest of effort."

(( Claire Bouyant is a Clairvoyant Telekinetic with very minor psychic abilities on land animals and greatly improved on sea animals. She is registered. Her Personal Details are withheld.))

Murmuring a thanks to the heroes helping get him to the sea as her funnel to the sea finishes, one good push should set it trundling down with ease. Claire touches the side of the telekinetic bubble with worry as the thoughts seem to regress, trying to project the right whale song once more, the message simple "Safe soon. Okay?"

Turning to those talking she gives some of them a funny look "So because something is not legal, people never do it? Your jobs must be very easy."

Clearly it wasn't going to be Claire's day. Not only was she having to negotiate for the life of an incredibly angry and now likely quite bitter psychic whale, but the Heroes were being especially confusing today. Thunking one of the fence posts into the ground she lets the other float there as she twists to the side to look at Amy with a dour look. "It is not so simple, the Whale is a psychic and has come for revenge for its fallen kin. With the two heroes here acting like children as they try to kill it and the fashion designer coming to yell with undeserved self worth, making everyone a little harder to calm down. I also think Susan has hurt her head worse than the rest of us."

She lets it sink in for a moment, before rubbing her eyes and lowering the other fence post. "I am sorry, I should not lecture. I never intended for this to get so much like a fight. I just do not like it when others are treated with less regard than a human would enjoy. If one of these two try to finish the whale, please help me pacify them for the moment Amy."