Evil_Legacy
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:See what I'm getting atis if that information is supposedly suppose to be that secret, then why even mention it, and wondering if it's even legal, if it's illegal to give out any information of what's going on. If no information can be given out, why even bother bringing it up without solid facts? why not just wait until the solid facts can be stated and then state them? It's like bringing up a good resturant they found but then when some inquire about the whereabouts and menu, they say "oh I cant say because the guy that told me where it is at, which I cannot say or what they serve or how good the food is but I heard from a reliable source that cannot be mentioned that they heard from a source that also cannot be named said this resturant exists." Why bring it up then if you cant or dont have details? Once ok, things are going on, but no point in bringing it up again and again and again if there are no new details but the same old I cant say but my reliable source who heard fro ma reliable source who heard from the bum on the corner who's uncle work for this guy that has a reliable source says talks are going on." We already knew that. How about what is becoming of those talks or what happened with the old talks? Each time it's gets fishier and fishier and starting to sound like they are just making stuff up just to be making stuff up just for the hell of it.Originally Posted by Tenzhi
The lack of solid information about what may or may not be going on doesn't really tell us anything one way or another. If real efforts to continue the game are, in fact, being made then those in the know might have to keep the solid facts to themselves for now. It could also all be a load of hooey with the same info or lack thereof. I'm certainly skeptical as to whether such efforts are being made, and if they are I'm also skeptical that they'll come to any sort of fruition.
Mind you, while I'm not one to maintain optimism and hope, and I will freely share my lack thereof, I'm not going to tell others that they shouldn't hope. For some, it's a powerful sustaining force. "One person's trash is another's treasure" is a statement with broad applications. -
Quote:But the more people "supposedly" offer and keep offering, it makes it have value.Originally Posted by GadgetDon
Um, weren't you saying that a 500K offer was insulting because the customer base would mean they'd make it back instantly? But there's not enough players to make it financially viable. If you're right here, 500K seems like an overly generous offer.
Though I think you're right that much of the damage has been done. Let's assume a sale was going to happen:
Scenario 1. No shutdown announcement. NCSoft and Paragon make a joint statement that Paragon has been bought out by CompanyX (or Paragon Studios is being spun out on its own). Paragon describes all the wonderful things they plan to do on their own. Big noise, lots of excitement. Highest IP valuation possible for the deal.
Scenario 2. Soon after the shutdown announcement, NCSoft and Paragon make a joint statement that Paragon has been bought out by CompanyX. There will be no shutdown. We'll be working out the details of transition, everyone is happy about the new situation and all/most of the employees will be staying on. IP valuation lower than Scenario 1, but probably not much.
Scenario 3. Just before the shutdown, or just after the shutdown, a sale is announced. Those not yet with new jobs will work for the new organization, we "hope" to get some others back. It will take time to set up the new organization, the servers are still shutting down on schedule and we hope to have them up under new management with a month or two. IP valuation plummets because of the lack of confidence in new staff and the players who have moved on.
Scenario 4. Early in 2013, a sale is announced that the IP has been purchased. A new dev team is being put together and we'll try to have the servers up in a few months. The new company better be really well funded to both promote the recreation, run things as the word gets out, and until/unless a CoH 2 is done it'll never hit the levels prior to the announcement. And the value of the IP will make 500K look as unrealistic as 80M is today, but a percentage of future revenue may still pull in money from it.
Any of these scenarios, even Scenario 4, will benefit NCSoft more than the CoH backup tapes sitting on a shelf in the vault next to the Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault backup tapes, which has a value of 0. And no, NCSoft is not going to be able to make money with it in the future. NCSoft lives and dies on the asian market and CoH just isn't a good fit for it, the value of the brand is negative (those who recognize the name "City of Heroes" knows that NCSoft is the ones who killed the game).
If no one is offering anything and there is no demand, then yes, the value might be zero or rather zeron in the fact that it's not bringing in any money.
I think NCSoft would be nuts to let that IP go right now for 500K. That is basically gift drop to the buyer. Assuming those numbers about the profits are right, raking in what about 3-6 million a year at time of shutdown. That would mean that even if under the new management with a smaller team and smaller expenses and it rakes in half of the current "said" profits then that would be 1.5 million to 3 million a year. That only takes about one quarter to break even at 1.5 million a year. Or else with the expesnse of rebuilding and stuff, about two quarters at the low end of 1.5 million a year to recoup costs and even less time if it rakes in 3 million a year. 500k offer right now, is very low ball it seems. Maybe after a few months on the shelf, then yeas it would be more reasonable. But most multibillion dollar companies probably wouldnt bother with a 500k offer especially when only person getting the cake and icing relatively risk free is the buyer.
The sad part is that it seems that NCSoft dont want to sell the IP for pennies, and the buyer want to buy the IP for pennies. Or as some sources say, 80 million and NCSoft didnt budge which isnt odd. In 2008-2010 time period I believe, Microsoft offered Mark 15 billion for Facebook and was turned down. Yet, didnt see many people trying to boycott Mark for not taking that offer. In fact after that offer, they stopped acknowleding offers, yet dont see anyone here on their case for that like they are no NCSoft for the same behavior. -
Quote:Then I guess COHTitan will be pretty empty once that plan go into effect.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That's the code-name of the anti-troll plan we're putting together.
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Quote:yeahOriginally Posted by Tenzhi
I'll be interested if the quote in the OP is true and it pans out, but I take it with two grains of salt.
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Quote:sounds nice> i like the ring of that. Of course it would have to live up to that name.Originally Posted by That_Ninja
How about the Final Solution?
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Quote:Well well the head honcho himself has arrived.Originally Posted by TonyV
I think I just squeed a little bit.
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Well for all the "inside" people we have I find it odd that still cant get solid facts and or evidence of what is going on. Usually inside people have, I dont know, inside information but seems some inside people are coming off as knowing exactly the same information we know except just pass on the words of any ol body that says stuff that they want to hear and believe.
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Quote:yeah sounds like Arizona.Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Heh. I'm sure that's temporary until a better title can be found. The original was actually Phoenix City (for obvious metaphorical reasons), I think, but a lot of folks, myself included, just didn't like the sound of it.
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Come to think of it, I'm not sure Plan Z is the best name for the project, you know with the WW2 era connotation of Plan Z out there.
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Quote:Yeah sometimes though, I wonder who is actually trolling who.Originally Posted by blackjak
I am certainly not one of the people bashing NcSoft in every possible venue, and I highly doubt you'll see me ranting on here. I am also not on the forums posting in every thread that raises the topic of saving the game and essentially telling everyone that they are stupid to hope for anything or try to take a stand in any manner.
My stance is that if the campaign can make NcSoft think of selling the IP, then campaign away. I am also involved (in very small part) in Plan Z. Do I think it is a sure thing? No. Do I think it is crazy? Sure. I also think it is the last thing we can do to salvage a great game that we all love to play. It's also pretty fun to brainstorm and create for a new thing.
I am not singling anyone out. I was just commenting that out of every thread about any kind of saving the game, there is a few that are bashing the crap out of people.
The same few.
It smells of troll.
For example, if a person posted something knowing it will get a negative response, then who is actually trolling? The person that reply with the expected response or the person who posted knowing the response?
Like if someone came in here saying "Hail the KKK", which more than likely the person know the negative responses will happen and from my understanding they would be considered the troll.
For a crowd that is pretty angry at NCSoft for speaking half truths, and all, why would someone celebrate the new group that does the same thing with spreading rumors and lies with only evidence being some random anonymous person that just supposedly offered NCSoft money but conviently cant say what that offer is, how the offered, what was said, the presentation, the amount, or even who. Yet we suppose to eat this up without question while being weary of anything NCSoft has to say?
If that is the case and that is all the evidence that is needed then I too know this guy that cant be named that made an offer to NCSoft but I cant tell you the amount or even tell you this person exist but you have to take my word because it came from a reputable source that I also cant name or have no evidence of existing. -
Quote:touche.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's quite possible to do both
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Quote:sometimes it isnt about saving anything. it's about doing what was going on prior to the announcement, buisness as usual, enjoying the last days, talking to the people who they was talking to prior to the announcement, some trying figure out what happened, some are the way they were prior to the announcement.Originally Posted by blackjak
I find it funny that a people feel the need to waste their time on a dead game's forums to decry fans of the dead game's attempts to salvage something of said dead game. Maybe the very act of their posting means they are using reverse psychology and want to save the game by keeping the discussion about the game alive.
I'm sure they have deep philosophical reasons to waste their time on the forums of games that are a waste of time to try to save.
Ranting on a forum about NCsoft, about Save the World and We are heroes is saving crap in actuality. So before you ask about why people waste their time on one side, look at the other side and question why are they wasting their time here instead of actually saving something instead of just talking about it?
For both sides, I think the reason of because they want to will suffice and needs no explanation to you, or anyone else. Why are you not out trying to save the game instead of wastign time posting here? Isnt there a news article to write about NCSoft, or a banner to be made, or Advertisment about Plan Z that needs to be done? Or Facebook postings that need to be written to get the word out. Yet, here you are, with the rest of us, including the ones you point out as wasting time. -
wouldnt say video games asa whole will be gone in a century or so, but even in the relative short time that movies been around, alot has changed on how movies are made and what kind of movies are made. Some subjects and movie types/acting methods/camera work that are "normal" in this time period would have been an unthinkable way to make a movie then.
I think the same will happen to video games. New types will be concieved of, ones that we cant fanthom at the moment while the style that is popular today will be considered old fashioned and drab by then. In a short time, we went from basically bouncing a ball back and forth, which at the time was the greatest thing out, to the 2d scoll and space like games of the upper screen scroll, to first person shooter like Doom in 91 about, to advanced AI and storylines line Halo 4 and open sandbox games like GTA, and then you have the MMOs, type of games that people can play together and dont have to be in the same room a feature about 2 decades ago was nearly unheard for a console game. Now talking about centuries, which is about 5 times the length of 2 decades, I think the landscape of gaming will be far different then what it is now and so will movies. O
One century ago, watching a movie in home wasnt even thought of. Then putting a movie on a small disk was thought to be a fad, now there is blueray, and now alot of people dont even buy disks anymore but just download movies over the internet, which when spoken about in 1992 time period would have caused people to get pegged crazy. 3d movies once a fad that almost faded into oblivion is common place now. Now they have those 3d tv that was a staple in sci-films now people can actually buy.
In the 80s, anyone that said soon games like Super Mario would be a thing of the past was pased off as doom sayers that didnt know what they are talking about. Now, look, no game maker that I know of make new console or computer games in that style anymore. And that was only about 20 odd years ago. Is it possible that MMOs will still be around, maybe but probably not in the style that we are playing now. But I doubt any of us will be around to see what the end of the next 100 years will bring. -
Quote:yeah.Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Centuries from now, WoW would probably be the only MMO remembered from this era, if MMOs are remembered at all.
Even now, Nintendo, hundreds of games maybe even closer to thousand, but by the average gamer, only about maybe a dozen or so are remembered and even less for the casual player. And some people that wasnt around during that time, they may remember Super Mario Bros. and that was only about 2 decades and a half ago about?
Centuries is a long time. Not sure if many people remember any popular games(mre than likely pretty sure it wasnt video games) 100-300 years ago. -
Quote:Happens quite often actually.Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
The analogy that fits my mindset the most: CoH = an Apartment complex that's now being torn down for a new high rise.
Especially in Atlanta, and I heard in Chicago too. -
Quote:I second that.Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Now there's something I think we can ALL agree is a religion 8)
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religion
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion
Depending on which definition is used, Atheism may or may not be viewed as a religion. Some sources say it is a religion and others say that it is not a religion.
Some say that in order for it to be considered a religion, there must be some diety involed although Buddhism is considered a religion although one of the core beliefs is that there is no over-arching god such as the creator like god found in the Christian Bible. Then again, Buddhism can be considered a form of Atheism.
It all depends on how religion is defined and or how te definition is perceived.
There is really no evidence that god exists and there is no evidence that god doesnt exist. The funny thing is that if this was any other subject or object and there is no evidence that it exist (look at the many threads on this forum about different subjects that someone cant merely quote or show evidence.) then it's easily dismissed as doesnt exist because there is no evidence that it does exists. Yet, what makes god so different? Why if it was something else, it's easy and sane to say because there is o evidence of that so it must be false/non-existance/ or that person is imagining things but when it comes to god, the rules change to well just because there is no evidence of it not existing then that doesnt mean it dont exist. If that logic is true, then it should be able to apply to anything. Besides that, it's just a convient reason to say it exist without any evidence that god do exist. -
Quote:exactly.Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
...there is simply too much rumor.
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Quote:So basically neither side know if the number is true or not.Originally Posted by Terwyn
Did it occur to you that the number is accurate, and the parties that made the offer are legally required to remain anonymous?
It's still, maybe it is true, maybe it is not true. Unless NCSoft or that anonymous guy says so.
All this so anonymous crap. Out of all the buisness transactions that are made public of who bought what for what price or made an offer to this company and what offer they turned down. I mean hell there is even an article about 11 companies that tried to buy Facebook and Mark turned them down. Even one remained unnamed. Yet, his offer is published instead of this I heard from this guy that knew this guy that knew this guy that said she heard from the janitor that the offer might have been 80 million. Out of those 11, 10 of them were named companies. And lo and behold, it also show what they offered.
All we have is rumors. Usually when these situtations come to light, there is whole lot more than meet the eye and it may end up that all this stalling in price negotiations is just NCSoft's fault, and yeah if I was NCSOft I probably would have turned down 500k too. That sounds like very little risk for the buyer especially with supposedly ready made fans all ready to jump onto the revived COX no questions asked. And if the offers were along that line then yeah, they cant really be considered reasonable offer from the seller standpoint. Although on the same token, it might be NCSoft being a butt. Or more likely than not, it might be both sides being unreasonable and not really trying to negotiate at all but trying to do barely enough to say they exhausted all options and the other side barely doing enough to say that they were wholly ignored and stonewalled. When in reality neither side is doing anything besides trying to reinforce their predetermined stance they made before even entering into any form of communication.
There are other examples out there but for the one that is mainly mentioned http://www.businessinsider.com/all-t...n-fall-2006-12.
Not making it up. -
Quote:hear hearOriginally Posted by Angry_Citizen
*shrug* People need to get away from the crutch of religion. I actually became happier when I became an atheist. And that's another thing. Very few atheists have been atheists all their lives, so it's amusing when people (not you) start talking about how atheists are "closed minded" and "wouldn't accept evidence of God". We were open minded enough to reject religion...
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As a species, we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up reasons to kill one another. Why do you think we invented politics and religion?
-Ollie
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out of curiosity, how much did NCSoft spend to buy COX?
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Quote:Not sure. Might have to ask the ones that came to that conclusion.Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
I'm curious how everyone arrived at the conclusion that the entire basis for the idea that NCsoft is ignoring all offers and inquiries regarding the sale of CoH, all came from one ignored helpdesk ticket. That's just as ridiculous as the 80 mil rumor if it's origins are indeed what has been said about it here.
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Quote:lol. yeah that too.Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
Nope. That's more likely to get you arrested. Meet some interesting people of a different sort then.
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Quote:Possible but very very very unlikely.Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
It does strain credibility. Could I get in contact with Tim Cook by way of an Apple store? Could I seek an audience with Pope Benedict XVI by going to a local Roman Catholic church and asking one of the deacons? Could I get in contact with U.S. President Barack Obama by asking a clerk at my local city hall?
I dont think it's guranteed to get in contact with those people if you went directly to Apple HQ, got inside the Vatican, or went to the White House's front door.