Evil_Legacy

yeah.

That is what I'm refering to when I say COH2.

Oh I see.

NCSOFT Employeee!!! REPENT!!!

j/k


This is true.

yeah, seen some of those that said this game was cut down prematurely. Also I've seen just as many just mention the game is shutting down. And yet at least a couple that say that it was time for the game to go.

I just wish some one would release some more direct facts about some things about this shutdown. With all the speculation about the reason why, coming from the side of people that seem to highly dislike NCSoft now, seem to be more in a negative light and no matter what NCSoft say is dismissed as pure BS without even being there in the decision. It makes sense because it did not support the idea of the reason why that is made up before the announcement was released. Maybe it is BS, the statements from NCSoft is. Maybe this isnt just about realignment of the company and maybe they didnt exhaust all sources. Only if there was totally unbiased view from a reliable unbiased source of the reason why and what went on. All we have now is pure speculation about everything. And that only seems natural because there isnt much details, although I doubt many would believe it anyways unless it's exactly what they want to hear and already decided is "truth".

So naturally of course probably wotn be much details from NCSoft. It might be other legal things they cant or dont want to explain at work. I know if I was NCSoft, I wouldnt bother releasing much information at this point as all that is going to happen is that the words will be used to strole the already angry flame, especially judging from the tone. It's like many anti-NCSoft people are saying "We are willing to listen." but got their fingers in their ears. Not very constructive for two way talks.

But if some source that is not leaning either way coud release the actual facts, that would be great to end the speculation that seems to be past around as The Facts a little too often. The way some people present the information you would swear they was right there in the board room when the decisions were made or was the ones that did the offering, or was the one that made the decision to kill the game. So far only true reason we have is mostly realignment focus. Was it a proper reason? Maybe maybe not but anyone else that was actually there and handed the true reason by some NCsoft insider can debunk it or came across another statement by them that proves otherwise. I bet if NCSoft gave the reason that they already believed I bet that there wouldnt be a single one of them calling the reason BS then. But since it's not a reason they believe, it's considered automatic BS. Funny how that works.

Alright then.

Probably.

Well then we'll have to prove that is what we really want. The next game that is an actual sale for PC MMO, then flock to it. If it fails, then it looks like people prefer the rental way. Of course, have to leave the rentals alone then.

Words are words in buisness but money is what is important. If we want them to change, then we have to speak with our money. Remember who the law makers are. Mostly people that own buisnesses and or have investments in buisness. They usually dont make a law that is not in buisness failure unless they have to or after dragging the entire way until they are cornered especially if there i no benefit for them and there are plenty of people that dont seem to mind and keep giving them money for rental.

Maybe Plan Z should follow this format. Sell the game only once and the player owns it forever and have online access to it forever. This is the chance to set the standard that we wish to impose. This is also a way to show that even in this modern word with new MMOs, that format can work. And then must make the other game makers hungry by taking their customers with the ethic of valuing every customer.

But if a player only pays one time, and updates for COX like game costs money to make but the player isnt paying for it, where is the income coming from to pay for this, the CS people and development staff? Especially at a release rate that is not considered too slow, which seems to be most games outside COX. And to cover this income loss that is gone from monthly subs, what would be the price of the game to compensate for this income source loss?

Not trying to refrute the point. Trying to see what is the point you are getting at.

So basically the end of the game halted your plans in a very abrupt manner and there is no where that is a replacement. I think I got it.

Have you tried the beta server? I think there is time left to try those things.

exactly.

It's number 2 it is. Except they didnt rescind the buisness model per se, they discontinued the product.

Even if the game continued, free forever is a common ad loophole that many marketers use. In law it usually just merely mean a "reasonable person's standard as nothing really last forever." And you know, as vague as that is of a "reasonable standard" varies.

But if you want to persue for false advertising, you might have somewhat of a case given the short time period, if you can get a super suave lawyer and NCSoft dont bring their A level game. In reality though, it probably wont make it beyond the first set of paper work.

Hell even life-time warranties are not always life time. California and some other states have laws that say that a life time warranty must be a min. of only three years. The average one is only five years overall. So much for "life time"

Ah yes minecraft. not sure I thought it was starcraft. yes minecraft, sandbox game right with the cubes I believe. my error.


Sure they can make games like that, there is no doubt about that.

Where would the line be drawn between service and program. I would assume the program is out of the box and the updates are service or is it something else? Or should, with the above model, should game makers start charging for updates, if they are considered part of the program once they are released?

But yes, while a single player version would be fine, and a game maker can already make that type of game where there is a single person version but you can go online, why take that choice away from them where they have no choice but to build that model? Is that model kind of like a console game so what would even be the point of having a PC version?

They may have tried. Or they may have not even thought about it. Not sure if Nintendo is still in it's "family oriented game mode" or did they shed that image? I'm not sure if I can image some of those costumes especially for the female roaming around on Wii. Microsoft to could be hot but there might be alot of work that would have to be done to make it solo centric I think for console play. COX was very (not strictly) team oriented and of course have to deal with the drops or is will be very grindy as a stand-alone.

In hindsight, yes, it doesnt seem like a bright idea to not explore that option. prior to aug 31st, no one was trying to hear that. About 2010 and early 2011 that idea came up and it was quickly panned as impossible and defeatign the purpose of it being an MMO. That also could have been a reason they didnt go that route. "Man, you see the player's reaction when it was suggested to try to work a console port of COX? Note to self, never suggest going console again. Geesh, the poor guy got ripped apart."

Nope. Didnt get that thought at all from the post but still good analogy nonetheless.

I just believe that it is possible for a good point to come from anyone even sworn enemies that would rip each other apart with their bare hands if they ever were to meet in real life. Of course not everyone share this view. Some views are "Oh I dont like you so matter what you say, you're wrong and stupid." but when their friend say the exact same point they are backing the point like they loved it from the get go.

+1

And that right there is what it seems like and why the american market seems a bit unfamiliar to some game companies. In many of the gaming companies home town, one in particualr that we all know of, MMOs sell like hot cakes, the ones that take years to gain a level or two, and console games are out there but not talked about so much. Here, it seems like MMOs and PC games are on the decline especially since the console game have the capability now to easily to go online in itself.

Yeah you are right, many consumers will look and wonder why pay $15 a month or so for a game that goes belly up and become unplayable while I can spend $60 dollars, dont have to worry about computer specs graphic cards, sound card, etc and even if the game still go belly up I can play it for years? Sound logical to pick the console but if logic ruled 100% we would not be playing this here game at all now would we. There is something that a MMO on a PC offers that no console with a joystick can ever offer. But like anything, there are downsides. It all can become a part of history with a blink of an eye as far as MMO goes.

And it's ironic that those games you mentioned maybe besides the sports one, originated in Asia. Not sure about Zelda's Link but I would have pegged him for some Animae thing.

I'm still wondering why the hell isnt this game the 900lb Gorilla even without counting the Asian population (no offense), especially since it came to be prior to WoW. We had good devs, good concept, good communication between players and devs, frequent updates relatively, yet...what happened? Originally I thought that it just failed to pull WoW players away but this game seemed to have been here first.

Unfortunately as long as WoW stays the 900lb gorilla, I think that is what many game makers assume that is what we want. It's kind of hard to argue from looking on the papers. "Ok, we can make a super hero game people. How did the other super hero games perform?"
"Well sir, none peaked at over 200,000 players and COX was an exellent game."

"Ok, no super hero game. Too risky. Not enough interest. How about the usual fantasy stuff?"
"Well WoW still have millions of players, Everquest peaked at 1.1 million, and there is Everquest 2."

"Well boys, looks like gamers want fantasy and grind. Lets make one that they really want."

In reality, I think it's different story but when it do happen again, we have to show them everything we have with no holding back. Spend spend spend (for those that are willing to.) until there is no "Uhm meh they are making a profit but not much. Think we get more from taxes? Send a bootlegged letter to them and shut it down. It isnt that many fo them so dont worry much about PR. They wont make much fuss." but more "That game dont fit with the line up but they are racking up a fortune. Screw the lineup, we keeping it."

hmmm never thought of it in that direct manner.

That happens quite often in real life too.

Landlord just didnt want the apartments anymore so he just stop renewing the leases and when the last one was done, he tore the buildings down.

He was making a profit, living good but he just got tired of the apartment buisness ad decided to rid of the buildings. Been two years and last we spoke, he still wasnt sure with what he was going to do with the land yet.

It's a two way street and you're right we have a right to opinion even if it's against SaveCOH. Want people to stop trying to portray you all as whiney brats, we would appreciate it if you all stop trying to portray anyone who dont go along and join saveCOH and praise them is a troll, NCSoft employee, and calling us every name under the sun that they can think of for also stating our opinion.

It's two way street. Just as you are tired of us talking about SaveCOX, we are just as tired of them talking insultingly about NCSoft every thread and quite frankly in my opinion again, acting pretty ungrateful for them giving this game a total of 8 years, longer than most MMOs would ever see.

I think it is ok to grieve but I dont think it's ok to troll peopel that dont grieve or take it as hard as saveCOX. Want us to get off your back? Then stay off ours.

It is very possible to have difference and still act sensible but there is no point in not shooting back if the other party automatically shoots first because we are not slipping into depression, didnt feel the game saved our lives, understand the buisness aspect, think it's just a game, or not cursing at NCSoft at every turn. Everyone reacts different and some 7 year vets are torn apart, and that is cool to express, while others is another game dowen the tube and will move on after Nov. 30th. I just got fed up with being called names and everything just because I dont understand what's the big deal and have no intentions on joining TonyV crew. If you do that is fine. But dont insult us for not choosing to just follow because you feel like someone stepped on your heart with golf cleats and we just so happen to not. It's fine that saveCOX is giving to charities, now, and doing good things but that is no right to insult people that dont agree and then dont expect something in return.

I guess right here, for the last month can be the cross road. Either we can continue at each other, a split twisted communit yat each other throat because the other side wont see the view and cant because it's hidden behind the insults and calling other people's views dump or stupid. Or we can at least spend this last month going out somewhat like heroes.

I'm an extending this truce to the saveCOX people. If they stop with their tactics against us, I wont bother them. If they continue to continue to state their opinion in the matter that have been, riddled with insults to anyone that dont agree with them or I think the insult of the week for us is NCSoft employees or is it NCSoftfangirls, I lose track with which one we one, then we wont have to return the favor.

This is our home too and dont automatically become the sole domain for SaveCOX just because the game is ending. You have a right to your opinion and want them respected, then respect ours. It's not going to work expecting us to always respect you opinion but not giving a simple crap about anything that dont fit the saveCOX view. Just Of course I cant speak for anyoen but me, but I think this is a good junture to say this and try to end this on good terms even if we dont agree on views.

So we can either respect EACH OTHER VIEWS or continue the way it's been going in the past. I leave that choice up to you and your saveCOX people. And I'll at least have my answer next time I post my opinion on a topic and see if they can refrain from insults and calling the view stupid dumb idiotic, NCsoft employee and etc, and stick to the topic, then I know we are good. If not, then I guess then it wasnt meant for be even in the last leg.

Interesting points.


And maybe many more didnt know the about the other games until after the fact. Very much possible yes.


So really the only true odd game that wasnt dead yet that they killed was COX?


It did come off as selfish actually like the only reason they are downing NCSoft every other thread is because they killed "this" game. Prior to the announcement any negative comment about NCSoft was shouted down by many of the same people that is on their case now, especially when it can to talking about NCSoft past. My, how times has changed. Hmm, that clears somethings up. Thanks for answering the questions without the insults. Appreciate it.

Hey, I'm not saying the process is right or wrong. I thought this was focused on the end result, which I thought what was mattered. Yet I'm confused. One day it's about the game closing and people sayign they should have kept it running or should sell it. The next day it's about the way they did it. What is the TRUE reason most people are upset? The process or the end result?

Yea figured Everquest was irrelevant and was wondering why you introduced it as since everquest is still running since 1999 then expectation of COX running "for quite a while".


But I guess I should have worded my question about the time period a little better and been a bit more clear of what I'm actually asking about.

I mean, should have NCSOft waited until COX ran into the red? Or how low should the population be low to before taking action or how else should they have realigned the company if COX had to be a victim? That is what more I was tryign to ask in a shorter way. Didnt work apparently.

Do most other games run into maintance mode and who finance the game after that and who is in charge of it and who's books is it under? How long do a game run in maintance mode? How do this maintence mode works? Who makes money when the game is maintence mode and what are the cost difference between runnign the game full time and when it slips into maintanence mode?

Well from what I gather about the posting, I thought it would not be of any benefit to them. And as I said i nthe first posting about the topic, I dont see a game company making games where they dotn feel the risk would be worth it or to no benefit for them especially if a game doesnt go as well as they thought and end up losing everything with no form of compensation with that law.

What is with you and the insults today? If you dont want to convo. just say so and we can end this. Dont have to resort to insults every single time now.

uhm how is that paraphrasing? That is nothing like what I said or asked here? What that is is just an invention of your mind that you decided to assign to what I said just hoping to probably cause a problem. But maybe you are not tryng to start something and is just an easy way to dodge the questions of why now but not giving a big crap then?