Evil_Legacy
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I dont think this game made anywhere near the amount of money mickey mouse pulled in. More like maybe the amount of money that "Victory Through Air Power" cartoon. Significant during the time but mostly forgotten now and days and no plans on reviving it although other cartoons of that era have been re-released and or redone.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Spacewar still lives. The basic pong/tennis game was made on an analog computer in the 40s and used an oscilloscope as a display. Still going and I expect they will be around as long as their is the tech to make electronic games.
Want to go slightly younger you have games like net trek, rogue, any variety of physics based games like cannon shoot that are not only still around but you can play in so many different variants its mind boggling.
When anyone said this game was destined for doom they were talking out of their rear. I don't see the Disney corporation going "You know our mickey mouse character is going away time to move on". The people who kept saying the game was destined for death and that it was doing really well were all people that were acting to shield the developers from the consequences of bad decisions. I expect some really believed in the concept, having seen it shouted at them on the forums, others just wanted to be friendly with the developers.
Well given tha amount of time for that game to make a come-back, what about 40 years and only looks like one guy at first until Win 98s. That means what version of Windows we have to wait until COX come back out in the same manner? But given that those games were small, and relatively simple and it took decades for them to revive it, dont looks too good for someone doing the same thing to COX while we are living.
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Quote:Sounds a little toooo convienient. First totally ignoring him, according to him, now all a sudden they pop with an enforceable NDA? Unless TonyV was an employee or someone part of the actual negotiation process, which means he would have been NDA a long time ago, something isnt adding up.Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
I think TonyV got close enough to NCsoft to earn himself an NDA of his own. He doesn't seem like the type to let people keep wasting their energy at Titan if he himself had given up. And if he knows anything, that probably means he can't tell us. And that also means he can't even tell us that he can't tell us.
TonyV would have to be silent about it even if all he got was a cold shoulder, which is probably what happened. So don't assume I'm thinking this because I'm hoping against hope. If I'm right, it doesn't make me think any differently of CoH's chances.
He repeated said that NCSoft was ignoring him and unless they actually told him something important, there would be no need for an NDA and it means he was full of crap and been talking to them a lot more and was not actually being let on as he was trying to paint NCSoft as doing to rile people up.
Just too convienient that all of a sudden he cant speak and cant even speak about that he cant speak just as much as that Brian Clayton guy was suppose to be the rich savior and couldnt speak on it but convieniently, TonyV and Lackey claimed to have inside info about the entire deal but couldnt give out "any details" from him, but havent spoken a single word about him since the deal fell and no details on what transpired besides more rumorsespecially the 80 million one as though as if Mr. Clayton wasnt as deep into the deal as they let on and about as much a fringe rider as they was.
Maybe TonyV just took a break to deal with some real life stuff. Didnt he have surgery not too long ago on his back? -
Quote:yup.Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Common sense is often clouded by emotions and paranoia, but you try telling them that LOL!
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Quote:Before some of those pogues from that site starts pointing a finger my way:Originally Posted by Dauphine
I would like to add that although we players tried to keep the game alive with the resources we had available - it failed. The game is done at the end of the month.
The reason I say this is there is a group making ***** of themselves on a particular website and its shameful the game dies with this core group of fans behaving irrationally and paranoid. Get over it, you probably spent too much time on the mmo, you probably made sacrifices to real life relationships in the playing of this game, but make amends with your poor decisions and get back to reality or drop out into another mmo. This march behind some twit trying to sell you her books is getting sillier every day.
I aint do it, aint another account I created, and its not an E_L plot.
But glad he said it so I dont have to say it again. -
That is the million dollar question.
If they dont they are about to find out about some things.
If they do, experience might be the least of their worries. -
Quote:yeah.Originally Posted by That_Ninja
This thread perfectly encapsulates the CoH forum community.
But we are missing the My little pony pics. -
Quote:lol. hey dont worry the way things are going, only super hero MMO out there are going to be the ones where you have to choose between a set of well know heroes and team up with other well known heroes.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Even Cryptic despises CO
A team four spidermans and a batman. lol.
Or 5 wolverines and two jean greys.
At leats costume contests will be easy. -
Quote:Duke Nukem good game. Like the Duke Nukem 3d one the best.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Duke Nukem Forever?
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Quote:It took you how long to finally say that? Well hope you feel better getting thta off ya chest. Should of grew some nuts a long time ago and just come on out and said it instead of waiting until the end like a coward. Well, better late than never.Originally Posted by GreatRock
Oh, seeing as we're all leaving anyway, I'll just say this:
Evil_Legacy, you were my least favorite person on the forums. You were an unfunny doomcaller who couldn't stop raining on everyone's parade to think about any of the incorrect drivel you post in these hallowed threads. I don't know who you think you are, but I can say this: You are a terrible person and a worse forumite.
That is all.
Seriously, I love all you guys... but not that guy. -
Quote:What video game is 50+ years that is still around aka one that been around since 1962 I think it is to be 50?Originally Posted by Another_Fan
There is no intrinsic reason why this game could not have continued indefinitely. People are still playing 50+ year old video games and enjoying them. I expect that 100 years from now nethack and spacewar will still be played provided the technological infrastucture is still available. People are still playing thousands of year old games.
As to no warning that is just sily. There was an insane amount of warning. It was their for you to see. All anyone had to do was look at NCsoft's financials or any of the posts where people were shouting out "WE ARE IN TROUBLE". Instead people on the forums chose to look at numbers that showed a game that couldn't sustain any growth and somehow say how wonderful it was doing.
If you wanted to save the game you needed to hold torch vigils when Castle was driving people away from the game, when Posi was ranting at people for not having a moral compass. You could have joined with me in trying to get incarnate content made into something that actually fit well into the game instead of a game destroying grind.
I mean really didn't the idea of being forced and bribed to do incarnate content set off a lightbulb that maybe having content that was so awful that you had to reward people with game breaking tools was a bad idea ? -
Quote:I think it boils down to what makes a person happy. For some, it's as simple as having a new pair of shows every month. Thus money can buy them happiness. But some are happy just being around family and money cant always buy that, although you might need some to get to family if you have to travel to see them. I rather be miserable with money than be miserable because lack of money.Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
That's nice. It's hindering our society more than helping it now and should be removed. Or the 'natural order' will probably do it for us and throw out the baby with the bathwater.
And poverty, the problem with "bare minimum" is you're not really in a stable environment. It's only stable if luck ignores everyone else and never deals Murphy's Law to you. Just because you're doing fine one month, doesn't mean a thing come the next one. When all it takes is a single breakdown of a car, or a colder than normal winter to put you in the red, that's not stable.
Inventions... we could actually be way more backward than we are now if the systems of greed existed before we started using tools. Just imagine if the patent system had been around at the dawn of civilization. We'd hardly be anywhere because nobody could afford to pay to use fire, and every simple machine. Things that are the basis for practically every piece of technology we have. Imagine if licensing had been around and every time you used a hammer on a new job, you had to pay for an additional license for the hammer.
I agree that the government needs to do something, even if nobody knows exactly what it is they need to do. What I see as the most basic problem with the whole thing is, I find it ridiculous that the thriftiest person in the world, with a minimum wage job, will not be able to afford the basic necessities. NO job should be incapable of supporting a worker (provided the worker isn't being a shopaholic) above the poverty level. That the only houses being built anymore are mansions doesn't help things any either. You certainly hit on something that has always irked me about happiness though. In our society, nobody really has a right to pursue happiness. That's only a privilege. So while the classic phrase, "Money can't buy happiness", while accurate, only shows half the picture. Nobody is happy if they have to constantly worry about losing their home, electric, heat, etc. Yes, money can't buy happiness. But what it can buy, is the freedom to pursue it. The pursuit of happiness isn't free. You need a license, and the fee is pretty hefty for many.
And yeah I think if you have a job, you should be able to live at least decent. -
Quote:yeah.Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
If I pay for it, I consider it mine. I own three different disc copies of this game; I bought innumerable super packs and costume pieces and power sets.
I do consider them mine. They were not rentals: I paid for them in perpetuity. They are therefore mine.
I will be thinking very, very carefully before I hand over more real-world cash to an MMO. VERY carefully. I imagine I am not alone in that.
They cant take your physical disks away from you. You can hold on told things for 100 years from now. -
Quote:That is in interesting view.Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
LOL I was wondering at what point someone was going to need to cite Dr. McCoy vs. Spock as Exhibit A.
Maybe that's more of my problem. I don't know enough of the neurology to be sure about this, but I'm guessing empathy happens in the right brain and logic in the left? Doctors discovered I have he ability to use both sides at once - it's a known disorder, but I can't for the life of me remember what it's called now. What it means is I don't have a truly dominant brain hemisphere. But that doesn't mean they're perfect harmony with each other. Quite the opposite. It causes them to 'battle' each other, which meant I had to fight much harder to concentrate than normal people.
<< warning: I'm not posting these for debate, but if you feel you must debate them, keep the politicians out of it >>
But keep in mind my gripes about the CoH shutdown, stem from my hatred of much larger issues that are caused by the same kind of business thinking. Humanity as a species is so obviously headed on a collision course for disaster, we might as well be crash dummies in a test vehicle (and I'm not even talking about global warming). For just one example, "perpetual growth". Impossible to sustain. But it is the holy grail of business and seen as a necessity to keep from getting slaughtered by angry investors. But how can ANYONE think it is possible? Even the most perfect business in the world, will eventually fail due to a lack of resources. How can we expect perpetual growth to sustain us when Earth has a specific limit of natural resources? One way or another, that business is going to be unable to keep producing more than they did the previous year.
Social Security is flawed in the same way. It relies on every generation having more humans than the previous one. Once again. Earth is limited. It only has so much surface area that we can live on and even less of that is arable. Yet even as overpopulation becomes a real threat reproduction is pushed just as much now as when "Be fruitful and multiply" was penned into the Bible. People are even called selfish if they choose not to make babies.
Despite these realities, logic is taking us down a path to disaster, and somehow even many logical people do not regularly see these things, or they just don't care, because they're logical instead of empathic. Whether that would technically be Empathy for the planet, or "Gaia" or whatever, or a lack of Empathy for humanity as a whole, I'm not really sure.
"Wall-E" had it right. While the imagery of a trash city was mostly done for dramatic effect, the mindset behind how Earth reached that point is entirely real. A disaster of that caliber can and most likely will happen, and greed disguised as logic, will lead us to it. And that brings me to a point that most will hate to agree with. Greed is NOT logical. Therefore logic shouldn't even be used to justify it.
but greed have to be defined. If it's want for more than we need to live, then by definition, everyone that is wasting electricity and resources here is greedy while we play games while there is no electricity in other parts of the world. At what point does it actually becomes greed? I think there was a study that found that most millionaires/lower billionaires do not consider themselves rich. -
Quote:yeah.Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Well if that was the case, then sorry, I was mistaken. But everything I heard about Tabula at the end was that it was very much in the red.
However, the scary thing about profiting games still shuttering is, if you can at least assume that the game will continue while it's profiting, then you can contribute to keeping that game alive. If there's some unknown profit percentage for each company that may suddenly get more greedy for a number we can only guess at, then we lose the feeling that we are 'supporting the game', and that isn't good for the morale of a community.
Oh yeah, I'm fully aware of what's going on in the political ivory towers. Even there, we've seen a bit of a shocker in the past week though. The unthinkable happened. The 'businessman' wasn't given the king's seat despite the financial noose that has been slowly being tightened around everyone's necks. Whether or not that is the main reason is open to tons of debate, which we definitely shouldn't go onto a tangent about, but between that and the Occupy rant fest, it MIGHT be a sign that people are finally getting fed up with it.
This empathy for other games is more of the change I was referring to originally. Not a change across the entire business landscape. I don't know exactly what it is, but something about this shutdown has made an unusual impact. I wouldn't say it rocked the internet, but it was at least a ripple that everyone felt, and that's more than what usually happens. It's not a great change, but it's a first step. The eyes of the gaming world have been opened, at least a little. -
Quote:tell me about it.Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
LOL except now there is so much variety on television it's crazy. Hundreds of channels most of which I have no use for.
Golf Tv? Food Network? Discovery Kids? G4? Seems like there is a channel for almost everything any more. When I was a kid you had: NBC, CBS, ABC, and PBS hehehe. I remember when cable started getting popular and there were channels like: MTV (They played videos back then), USA, TNT, and of course my mom's favorite: Lifetime - Television for women. THAT I never understood - television for women yet it seemed almost every film they had the woman was getting beat/rap3d/killed/kidnapped... what the frock man!
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Quote:Yep as usual, I just play the game unti lthey take it back and never put money/time that I will miss into something that I do not actually own .Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Not decrying the support of other games/gamers, but if I were a ChO or DCUO player this should worry them. Neither of those games are performing well and I fear their sunsets are a lot closer than they want to admit. If either of them make it through 2013 I would be hugely surprised. I'm not knocking the games themselves (I did not like them but I can see their appeal to others) just hoping they see the writing on the wall. Economic times are rough for everyone; even businesses, and now is not the time to be seen as losing money or pulling in weak profits in the MMO industry.
(I didn't mention SWTOR because I only played that game for like an hour and am completely unfamiliar with their financial situation; although I remember reading they are losing customers at an alarming rate). -
Quote:Yeah I noticed this beyond the gaming world. Even though sometimes companies see their mistakes and realize that the niche was not as small as they thought, like the Camaro. When it was first killed off, there was no intentions on bringing it back because GM said that car filled only a niche market. Ford was filled with joy. Then the Mustang sale soared, it got a retro look, and GM starting looking and saying "God dang it what have we done." Thus the retro styled Camaro came to light and they spent big bucks to make up for lost ground and for them it works. For others not so much. I think about all the stuff that have come and gone now to be replaced wit hstuff more "generic" but hugely popular. Everything from car designs, clothes, shoes, tv shows, movies, even food.Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Heh, this reminds me of an episode of Boston Legal that really intrigued me. An old couple sued a television station because all the shows targeted the teens demographic and there was no entertainment for them.
It sounds petty, but seriously think about it. What ever happened to niche marketing? It used to be a good thing, and now it magically isn't. In the most obvious example, nobody can make a low-pop MMO now even though what is now a low-pop MMO was top dog 10 years ago and highly profitable. This is bad, bad, BAD, for anyone but who always becomes the target demographic: the gullible young crowd. Why should everyone else have to be told, "you get nothing but what is crap to you because all we care about is the demographic that is easiest to string along"? This is how smart sci-fi has almost become extinct and now can usually just be described as soap operas in the future/space. Entertainment is telling you, "You're not in the largest demographic, so you don't like poop? Too bad. You either eat the poop, or starve, because the only people who matter to us are the poop eaters."
One one hand it's maximizing profits on the other hand it makes it bland. But hey, seems that is what people want or at least enough of them want it that they dotn have to worry about the people that dont. Just like when Cadillac killed the Eldorado. There have been customers that (most now are highly pissed and said they wont buy another GM product) been buying Eldos. every year since the 70s. Niche market. DTS-niche car, replaced with something that is barely has more room than a CTS. Smooth ride in most new cars-niche. People like the feel of every bump inthe road accordign to car makers. Car designs that look like it had any thought process-Niche market. People apparently want cars that look like a giant insect or like a run of the mill Civic (Talking about that blasted C-CLass that looks like the Civic). Shows where people are not acting like a plum fool on tv-niche. Hey people love Snookie and them house wives. -
Quote:Ah you see. You said that those other games, because they were in far worse shape and nothign wrong with them shutting down. Lats I remember Tabula RAsa was generating a profit, small one, but as you said still profit. I bet those players was hurt when they game went but over here, it seems not much emotion for those games, but people that dont show emotion for this game is a (word of the week) robot now. Yet even now, it's not about the termination happening to other games that is bother some. It's just the fact that it's happening to THIS game or as some people put it YOUR game that it's bother some. I bet some at more profitable games say that this game had it coming because it's in worse shape than their game and so on.Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
That's starting to change too actually. Amazingly we've been getting support from other games. And I think we're going to see more of it, if these kinds of things keep happening. The frontier of the internet is so young though that there's scarcely been any time to define its value beyond a literal sense. But philosophy can't help but become more of a factor as time goes on. And people will start asking the deep questions that will make the whole thing sound like a dialogue from the Matrix or Tron. "What is real?" "You don't have the right to cut the users off."
But comparing CoH to NCsoft's previous slayings is moot. All of those games were in FAR worse shape than CoH was when given the termination order. And whether it was a weak profit or a strong one, it was still a profit. And MMO's being shut down while they're still generating revenue is uncharted territory, and paints a pretty scary picture for the future of the genre.
By the way, the fact that you said NC doesn't care whether we keep buying their products or not, is EXACTLY why I have felt that "voting with your wallet" is a meaningless gesture and does NOT create the balance of power between company and consumer that most pro-capitalists (probably the wrong word to use, because I don't disagree with capitalism, only that it has become more corrupt and 'scroogey' as time has progressed) love to use as a reason why everything is as it should be.
But will change come? Time will tell. I think some people think companies only care about money but there is something else that rarely mentioned that many loves sometimes mroe than money. Power. Usually these two things go hand in hand. Want to change buisness? Easy stop voting for pro-corporation people into law making positions. But unfortunately people are attracted to money and power as leaders. They put on a suit, ran a big buisness, that means they are fit to be a politician. Why do laws tend to favor big buisness? You think the marketing budget is huge? Its small in most corporations compared to their political funds budget that go to politicians and or lobbyists.
Just as many people can feel the pain for loss of this game but seem to have hard time feeling the same way for other games is the way many politicians that have buisnesses, friends that run buisnesses feel compared to the plight of the people that are customers and want more for their money.
As someone said, they would not exist without us. Looks like we created a monster then. And sometimes monsters are not as easy to kill as they are to make. -
Quote:Last I checked I dont think they are forcing anything besides taking, as you said, their cake back.Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
This. Exactly this.
Also, don't forget:
5. Just find another game. Just because CoH is the only MMO you've ever found that does things in a way you enjoy doesn't mean you can't just instantly replace it with another game.
It's like they're trying to convince people that, sure, you can't have any chocolate cake anymore, but you can eat all the poop you want. They're the same color, so they must be the same thing, right? And don't complain to the company that used to make the chocolate cake, because it's their right to make you eat poop.
... I want my cake back.
That would mean it's probably time to go find your own cake if you dont like people having control of what they own.
If you think everything else is poop, then that is your personal problem and not NCsoft. Yes there are plenty of other games out there but there isnt another COX. You dont need COX anymore than you need cake to survive, normally. But if it is to the point where there is a feeling of life and death if you dont get your fix of "chocolate cake" and a company have no right to decide what products they make or continue to keep making, then either you might need to seek help, or learn to make your own so you can have it without having worry about people taking it.
Dont worry, word on the street is that Plan Z is on the way so looks like you wont have to worry about NCSoft at least taking their stuff back. -
Quote:that is the million dollar question. Word is that they wasnt losing money on it but wanted to refocus on another product (word says Vault is what became of it) and...wait a sec this sounds very familiar.Originally Posted by JohnRobey
It doesn't work as an analogy for the reasons you cite. My point in posting this is that sometimes customers can get discontinued products restored. Perhaps the small number of City of Heroes fans makes the analogy to Surge more apt, since Surge is a soda pop I've never heard of nor tried.
That said, why did Coca-Cola discontinue Surge? Was it profitable? -
Quote:EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE!Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Unbelievable.
A thread where a group of robots are telling humans to stop being humans.
Maybe you should just try saying EXTERMINATE over and over again.
No human emotion allowed! EXTERMINATE!! *BZZZT* ERROR ERROR! *BZZT* EXTERMINATE! -
Quote:yep but until now, didnt seem like many people had as much of a problem with this company's past habits that seem to be utterly the most aweful thing in the world and wonder why or how could they? Easy, the same way they have been doing. Yet, they rake in more money and more money becuase people complain whine cry curse but then go right back like dope fiend.Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Without us, their stuff does not exist.
Symbiosis.
And without people to make games, we would not be here having a game to miss.
But still, that doesnt change the fact of actual owner ship.
Yes we have the power but in order to use that power if a person want to change a buisness is understand the situation. Do they expect most of the customers from the game to actually migrate over to their other titles? Probably a few but probably dont expect most of us to do so. Thus most of us probably have already been written off as a loss. SO whether or not we spend another dime on them is moot, to them. But if the company as described in many posts of how NCSoft should be was THAT important, then most of those people wouldnt be here today. Or it seems those "morals" are only important when it affects them in a negative way. As long as it's done to someone else, they dont give flying crap. -
Quote:that what it seems like.Originally Posted by JayboH
People want to know more about NCSoft's reason for their decision just so they can argue more.
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Quote:Wait, what was your property that they took? From my understanding it looks like they just took their stuff.Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
3. It is wrong to be upset when someone else takes your stuff with no warning, and then refuses to give it back when asked politely. Refuses to give it back, when offered money! Wow.
I dont think it's rude at all to refuse to sell something even when someone offers moeny for it. If that was the case, I would never be able to keep a car for more than two days.
I think it's rude for people to get upset at the property owner for wanting their stuff back.
Just because I let you borrow my car for a while, and want it back so I can trade it in for a new car doesnt mean you all of a sudden OWN my car because you been driving it for a month or two. -
Quote:I just made that same anology. I liked Surge.Originally Posted by That_Ninja
I think the Coke analogy doesn't work that well with this situation. Coke was (surprisingly enough) the flagship drink of the Coca-Cola company, so of course they were more willing to appease its customers (and doing so made their sales increase more than Pepsi).
CoH is to NCSoft as Surge is to the Coca-Cola company: A well-liked but under-performing product that was put out of commission by the company and has a small but vocal fanbase on facebook.