Emerald_Ally_EU

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In a game this dynamic, with so many archetypes that reach far off into different specialisations, how exactly is it possible to reach a real sense of balance? In truth, that kind of thing may be possible, but it would take far too much time, effort, and a lot of trial and error (and annoyance on our part) to find a way to give everyone a participating chance in a PVP fight. The problem is, that would most likely cause PVE to be very different from PVP, unless of course the changes happen to both, which would force the already fine PVE side to become very odd-feeling.

I have to say that I think the way the AT's are right now, is probably the best we're going to get for overall balance. Sure, there is room for some tweaks, but the only way to bring balance to an equasion with so many specialist and mixed-type AT's, is to allow each one a strong ability. Each AT has a real strength to it, but it doesnt guarantee they will compare well against all opponents. Controllers without stalker defense measures will find themselves laying on the floor 99% of the time. At the same time, people without mez protection also find themselves unable to take part in most fights when a controller shows up.

The solution you proposed is creative, but I dont think I like it. Both out of personal preference, and the liklihood of people finding and using exploits with the way it works. I dont personally think it suits the game at all, though it would be interesting to implement this idea in another way. It might make a good plot-piece for a magic-origin story arc.

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I think your right about pvp balance in general. I guess its time to throw in the hat and say thats as balanced as its gunna get.

I personally dont liket he way pvp works and plays. Its too fast, its over before you know it. You dont get time to savour the fight at all, theres no real fun except in winning. But as I have learned over the years that opinion is just a drop in the ocean of ideas. I guess its time to move on.

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Actually, we can quite happily "insult" your idea and leave it at that. You know why? Because some of us don't see anything that needs a "solution".

The problem is with percieved balance issues between ATs; not how the mez system works. There are ways to counter the mez effects, even avoid them completely, and adding complicated methods to try and "solve" the problem won't do a thing.

Toss around "I'm a casual player!" all you want, but the fact remains Cryptic have provided ways for "casual" players to participate in PvP. If you run out of the appropiate inspirations? Get more.

If you keep running out of them, then I think you might want to address your playstyle, not the game.

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So what is it that you are contributing to this discussion?

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Wrong on both counts - my main PvP toons are both squishies (Blaster/Corruptor), and I fail to see mezzing as an almighty problem. You either carry BFs, team with players with de-mezzing powers, you find other ways to avoid being mezzed, or you get mezzed.

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Have you pvp’d with a defender other than empathy at level 50? The advantage that both the blaster and corruptor ATs have is that they can do enough damage to avoid getting mezzed. On top of this the blaster AT has the toggle dropping advantage, which I rightly believe they need. I completely agree with NB in that if toggle dropping was removed from blasters they would be outshined by scrappers.


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I don't know where you've been playing, but I've seen a healthy number of types of Defenders in the PvP zones in Union - Kinetic, Empath, Rad, Storm, Dark, FF - the only gap has been in Sonics and Trick Arrow.

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Defiant. Come over and check it out. You will see I’m right.

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The main problem for Defenders isn't mezzing at all, it's that Controllers have access to the majority of the Defender primaries and have more useful powers on top of that, other than anaemic Blaster powers (generally speaking). Even worse, some Controller secondaries are more effective in PvP than Defender primaries - I understand this is being looked into, however. That in itself is more a problem for Defenders than mezzing is.

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Firstly can you give me examples of powers that controllers borrow from defenders that are more effective for controllers than defenders in pvp. In addition can you explain how these powers work against defenders in pvp.

Secondly, I agree that controllers using defender powers is a problem, however my reasoning is different. The reason I believe that controllers makes better defenders isn’t because the powers they share are any more efffective, its because controller survivability in pvp is greater than defender survivability and that I believe is largely due to the fact that controllers have mez protection. If there is one thing we can all agree on its that toggle dropping kills. Imagine a rad defender and a rad controller. A rad defender would spend his time running around the map trying not to get killed, constantly being aware of his BF intake rate so that he isn’t caught out and his toggles don’t drop. A rad controller wouldn’t have to waste time with his BF intake count and will be able to concentrate on his buffs. He doesn’t have his toggles, like RI or EF, dropping every time someone holds him, he just gets on with the killing. In summary the controller has a higher chance of survivability than the defender and so is able to concentrate on buffs more than the defender. That is the root of the problem. This is the reason that controllers make better defenders than defenders.

I don’t believe you have played a level 50 defender (other than empathy) to an extent where you could possibly make an adequate judgement about what they do or do not need. Your more than welcome to, but don’t expect me to take it seriously.

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In absolute fairness, the US forums are hardly a haven of reason and logic - more a den of nerfherding and whining. If anyone has a perceived advantage, you can bet there'll be a chorus of complaints. Our community is sufficiently developed and matured so as to be able to decide for ourselves what the issues with PvP are - we certainly don't need to take any cues from the US.

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I didn’t say that the US forum users were any more or less right than us. I was simply stating that there are people that perceive this as a problem. After all they do play the same game as us, surely their opinions count for something.

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I came into this post late - remind me what that question was?

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What do you do if you’ve run out of BFs? If you don’t have a pocket empathy or kin friend? If all the people you can find to pvp with are PUGs? If you have a level 50 defender and don’t have the time to level another AT, more suitable to pvp, to level 50? What do you do if you’re a casual player like me? Give up? Go play another game? Come on to the forums and make a creative suggestion to alleviate the problem?

In addition to all the people that say it is a silly idea. Well then come up with your own. Don’t just say its rubbish and leave. The whole purpose of this post isn’t to insult my idea and at the same time it isn’t to promote my idea as the all encompassing solution, its to find a solution that satisfies all of us. Don’t just put an idea down. Come up with a counter idea. In the case of syn, he didn’t like my idea and he argued against the fact that there was even a problem. This is great! I’m putting down my counter argument and in this way we will argue and argue until we reach some sort of common ground. This is much better than simply saying ‘its bad’ or ‘its silly’ or ‘I don’t like it’. It doesn’t go anywhere.

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I think thats a terrible idea.

Controllers have holds, its their main thing and to get them to indulge in some form of sub game while a stalker comes up from behind and [censored] you is not pvp. Blasters have no mez protection but can blow the attackee to kingdom come, its all swings and roundabouts. The mezz factor is fine as it is, it does next to no damage and is mainly a support character. Whats next? someone healing the opposition isnt fair on the person who is not getting healed to have his opponent restored to full health, what about someone with mezz protection, thats not fair for people with mezz powers, perhaps we need to come up with a sub game in order to see if each and every power hits/defends and is effective

I dont mean to be rude in anyway and Im sorry if it sounds like I am getting at you but the pvp system may not be perfect but it is pretty good. No AT is overpowered and all have their strengths, seeing as how there is a specific insp to negate mezz I dont see a problem with the system.

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You don't play a lot of squishies do you?

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I think this is true for most of the people that play on the EU servers. In the US servers when talking about mez protection there was a huge call to to do something about it. This is because many many people play squishies (and im not talking about the empath kind). Ive been playing this game for nearly two years now and i started off in the US servers. Then i transferred over the uk servers a few months ago. One thing that struck me was the complete lack of knowledge about defenders amoung the people here. Also in pvp i never ever seem to see another defender except for the empthay kind. The fact that you tell me that there is no problem with the mezzing is telling me that you havent really played a true squishy before. I dont think you guys really understand the problem from a squishie point of view. The fact that you say toggle dropping is the biggest problems tells me that you most likely pvp with scrappers or tankers. Maybe my solution isn't the the best to this problem, but i assure there is a problem. Just as the squishy community on the US forums will tell you. Back when i was there it was the number one complaint that they had about pvp. Think about that before you say mezzing is not a problem. Also not one of you have given me an answer to my previous question.

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Hm thought about it...CoH is too dynamic/fast for this solution to work.

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Yes thats true, i cant argue with that and it is one of the reasons i believe that pvp isn't as fun as it could be.

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I think thats a terrible idea.

Controllers have holds, its their main thing and to get them to indulge in some form of sub game while a stalker comes up from behind and [censored] you is not pvp.

Blasters have no mez protection but can blow the attackee to kingdom come, its all swings and roundabouts. The mezz factor is fine as it is, it does next to no damage and is mainly a support character. Whats next? someone healing the opposition isnt fair on the person who is not getting healed to have his opponent restored to full health, what about someone with mezz protection, thats not fair for people with mezz powers, perhaps we need to come up with a sub game in order to see if each and every power hits/defends and is effective

I dont mean to be rude in anyway and Im sorry if it sounds like I am getting at you but the pvp system may not be perfect but it is pretty good. No AT is overpowered and all have their strengths, seeing as how there is a specific insp to negate mezz I dont see a problem with the system.

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Im sorry i just dont agree with you. I understand your argument and appreciate that your being polite and answering my post with some courtesy , I will try to do the same.

I dont believe that all the ATs are balanced and that PvP is done as well as it could be done. I also dont believe that the way to finding a solution is to keep this system the same.

Let me approach this from another angle, using a philosophy of participation. When you are attacked you can heal. You are participating in the game. When they heal you can attack. You are still participating. When someone debuffs you, you can try to run and drop the debuffs. You are participating in the game. When someone slows you, you can jump around and try to escape. You are participating in the game. When you are mezzed you sit there and cross your arms. You are not participating in the game. There is nothing you can do about it. The solution I’ve proposed allows some active participation, however futile it may be, so that pvp is still fun for the person being mezzed. It takes steps to making the system slightly more balanced but overall more fun. I mean it couldn’t be less fun than just sitting there now cant it!

You say that the system should have the controllers involved in a sub game. What sub game?? What are you referring to? The whole OBE idea was something for the person being mezzed, the controller isn’t involved in any ‘sub game’. If I’m not wrong I think you were trying to say that controllers were more of a support class so it was ok that they have status attacks like this, also because they do next to no damage. You do know about the controller inherent right? Triple damage on holds? With regards to the support question all I have to say is, why is it that controllers are better at dueling in pvp than all the other ATs?

You say that there is no problem when you have a insp to negate the effects of mez. Im telling that IS the problem because it prevents any real solution from being proposed. What do you do when you dont have any insps left? Stand there and die? Play another game? Come on to the forums and make a creative suggestion? I dont have the luxury of a pocket empath or kin defender. Heck i hardly ever have a team mate. Its stupid for a defender to fight solo in the arena I know. But I have a better chance for survival than fighting in a PvP PUG team.

Another suggestion would be to build another AT and get him to 50. But I’m a casual player I don’t have time for that. Give me a free char respect so I can make that ill/rad controller or that ice/energy blaster or even that spines/regen scrapper. Better yet, make it easier to powerlevel so I can do it myself. I suppose you could say that I made a “misinformed decision” (to coin a phrase from statesmen). If I had known it would be this difficult to play a defender in the PvP I wouldn’t have chosen to make him in the first place.

In summary, I do not believe that the current PvP system is the most balanced and the most fun that it can be. I believe it can be better. I also believe that arguments like “The pvp game can never be balanced” only serve to prevent us from finding a solution and there is a solution! Also, lets get one thing straight, this is by no means a cry to nerf controllers. I understand that controllers depend very much so on holds and my intention is not to take that away from them.

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I like blizzard games, but i think they must have been smoking something when they came up with that idea. I agree the current situation isnt great but I dont think i'd like to see this implemented. I posted my own solution in suggestions which might interest you.

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Where is your idea? I cant find it. Also what do you not like about the above one?

Hello everyone,

Let me start off by saying that I hate mezzing in pvp. I think the way that people are mezzed and break out is [censored] and badly thought out. So this post is a proposed solution to correct what I consider as a flaw in the system. This is a draft post and i hope to refine the idea with further posts.

Ok, what is the major problem with mezzing?
From the point of view of the person doing the mezzing, nothing.
From the point of view of the person being mezzed, alot. The most prominant argument I have against it is that once your mezzed there is nothing you can do. Its a kind of either or situation (similar to the problem with defence). You stand there holding your head like a sitting duck while your opponent kicks the [censored] out of you. That is no fun. Especially if your a defender or a blaster and have absolutely no resistence to mez attacks without the use of a BF. There is alot of mezzing in this game, so when you pvp your bound to be hit by them and if you dont have a BF when that happens then its game over. As I said that is no fun and is not at all fair.
However the other problem is this; How do you make a system that is both fair to the people doing the mezzing and the people being mezzed. I mean if everyone had resistence to mez attacks then there would be no point in having those attacks. So they have to be useful for something.

In summary the problem is a two sided coin. On one side you have to maintain the usefulness of the mez and on the other you have to ensure that people being mezzed have a fair chance.

Now we move on to my solution. To illustrate it better i would like to refer to a feature i saw in WoW when my housemate was playing the game. When somebody dies in WoW they seem to have what id describe as an Out of Body Experience (OBE). Their physical bodies remain on the spot where they die and their spirit self is transported to a safe zone where they there have to make their way back to their bodies. Once they touch their bodies they regain control of their physical selves and then continue questing. I only saw a little bit of it and that is my understanding of how it works. Forgive me if i am wrong but it is just to illustrate my solution.

What if in CoH pvp, when a hero/villain is mezzed, instead of being held there like a buffoon not being able to do anything, they have an OBE. The mez KBs the spirit self of the hero/villain out of their physical bodies. The magnitude of the mez would determine how far the spirt self is KB'd away. Now there exists the spirit self and the physical self of the hero/villain. The player can only control the spirit self. This form cannot attack or cannot be attacked. Its like a phase shift if you will. The physical self stands there and is opening to attack and can take damage. The aim then is to get the spirit self back to the physical self before the hero/villain dies. If the hero/villain dies, then his spirit self is transported back to his physical body and he dies in the normal way. If he manages to get back to his body then the hero/villain regains control of their physical bodies in the normal way. All the mez status's are dropped from him and mez suppression is applied, as normal. All good and done.

But wait theres more. In the spirit form the player can take a BF that will instantly return him to his body or someone else can free him using CM or ID. The number of mez attacks that stack will allow the mezzer to slow down the speed of the spirit form. So therefore the more mez attacks that stack the slower the speed of the spirit form. In addition to give things more flavour, the very first power that the mezzee activates will have a boost associated with it. For example it it was an attack it will do more damage than normal, a debuff will debuff more than normal, a hold will have a high magnitude and a heal will recover more hit points than normal. But it only works for the first and only action.

I think this is much more of a fair system because it benefits both the mezzer and the mezzee. The mezzer gets the guaranteed amount of time that the mezzee will be mezzed because of the KB into spirit form. Also the mezzee has a fighting chance to return to his body and save himself. The way resistences work will be the same as before no change. The only difference occurs when someone is successfully mezzed. In addition it adds a bit more of an interesting dynamic to the game. This way the player is still actively participating in the fight as opposed to sitting there arms crossed and waiting to either die or for the hold to be released.

This is a very general idea and i would like to address it in more detail specific to the different type of mezzes and status attacks. However it is for now a start. What do you guys think?

Well I obviously havent been playing FF for long enough, because so many of you have so many great things to say about it. Things that I myself really have not experienced. I've been playing my bubbler for more than a few months now, although he's only around the early 20s. Like I said before, so far my experience has been one of complete frustration. I want to enjoy bubbles, I really do and that is why im sticking to it. However there are big flaws with the set that just seem to stick in my backside like a thorn. Until these problems are solved I dont think i'll ever truely enjoy the set.

Dont get me wrong, im not saying the set is broken, just its not fun for me. Especially compared to a set like radtiation and its frustrating too. So many times, i'll be standing around while my team mates health bars go down and all I can do is watch. I mean they have all their bubbles what else is there to do? If I do pull off a repulsion bomb then all the aggro is on me and then all i can do is hide in my PFF not helping anyone. Its very boring! On the other way with a set like radiation, Id run RI with EF on a mob and if that failed i could maybe slow them down with LR and if that failed i could maybe stop them with EM pulse and if that failed i could just try to spam my healing aura or blast away. So many different options, so many different ways to arrest a mob. FF seems EXTREMELY limited in that sense. I really think it needs to be looked at.

PS: detention field in teams is just annoying!

Thanx for the info, do you have any numbers? I used joe chotts hero planner and for some reason it said that dispersion had a resistence of 25 to everything and no defense. I know that wrong so numbers would be nice.

Also, does anyone know if the devs are planning any changes for this AT? Its silly how flawed this AT is. Its very very difficult to solo and teams games are just as tough. All I ever seem to be able to do is PFF everytime im in trouble, its just boring. How can anyone play like this and call it fun is beyond me. There is a HUGE difference between my rad/energy and my ff/psi. Does anyone know if anything is planned with this AT?

Can anyone tell me what the defense ratings are for dispersion bubble 3 slotted with defense SO's?

Hello, Is anyone here interested in joining a force field and radiation super group for controllers and defenders on the defiant server? Its called the Emerald Alliance. Ive just transferred over from the US servers and am a long time player of the game. I've also just registered the SG and so I havent recruited anyone. I am looking more for mature people to play with that have similar interests. Age is not that important as long as we all get along and you carry youself well. Leave a message here or send me a tell in game if you are interested. My global is @Emerald Ally. Hope to hear from you all soon.

Hello, Is anyone here interested in joining a force field and radiation super group for controllers and defenders on the defiant server? Its called the Emerald Alliance. Ive just transferred over from the US servers and am a long time player of the game. I've also just registered the SG and so I havent recruited anyone. I am looking more for mature people to play with that have similar interests. Age is not that important as long as we all get along and you carry youself well. Leave a message here or send me a tell in game if you are interested. My global is @Emerald Ally. Hope to hear from you all soon.

Hello all,

I recently transferred over from the US servers and am looking to start an SG for anything FF or Rad. obviously for controllers and defenders. The SG is called the Emerald Alliance and the colours are green black and white. I havent decided on anything else yet as I havent recruited anyone. Im looking for more of a mature crowd. Age isn't really important, just as long as you carry youself well and we get along. So give me a shout if you interested. My global chat handle is Emerald Ally. Give me a call in game or leave a message on here. Hope to hear from you soon.