Dysmal

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Now, its popular to bash WoW around here in some quarters, and I'm sure the game has its flaws. But with seven million subscribers (according to their advertising anyways), there's probably something for CoH to learn from WoW.

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I'd wager many folk happen to have many, many opinions of what WoW's success can be attributed to. I'm resisting the urge to post my stock response of "It's not exactly something you can implement on a whim."

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Thats resisting posting a stock response how, exactly?

I'd also note that I made no comments about the ease or speed of implementing features or lessons learned from WoW into CoH.

Nor did I comment on the reasons for WoW's success, which are surely diverse. The fact remains though, WoW is the undisputable market leader for MMOs. Therefore, there may be something to learn for other MMO developers to learn from WoW. Just like say, Microsoft likely looked at the Ipod when designing their Zune MP3 player.

On Feedback and Personal Attacks on Devs

Of course personal attacks on Devs aren't contrustictive. They're emotional, irrational reactions. They're also about as common as sightings of Bigfoot waterskiing behind the Lochness monster and Ogopogo.

Seriously, I read alot of threads, far more than I post in, and these personal attacks almost never come up. When they do, they're usually quickly deleted, and even then, the most common ones are based on ignorance of the roles of certain people, such as complaining that Lighthouse is posting alot instead of working on the game, when an informed player knows that the first activity is part of his job, while the second isn't something he can do, since he works for NCSoft and not Cryptic.

It also baffles me that this thread which is free of such attacks has been derailed into a discussion about this phenomenon. These personal attacks on devs seem more commonly to be brought up by people making attempts to discredit any criticism of the game by pointing out the most extreme, rare, examples of criticism, or by people unable to see the difference between saying "I don't like this, I think you could make some improvements" and "I hate you and hope several rabid ferrets climb up your pant legs."

On Comparisons to WoW

A ways back in the thread, someone asked why people commonly compare various facets of CoH to WoW. I don't play WoW or any other MMO, but I think there are some reasonable reasons to compare the two games.

Firstly, WoW is the most successfuly MMO in history, at least in North America. WoW is the undisputed leader in this field in terms of commericial success and as a cultural phenomenon. No other MMO has shown up being satirized on the comics page of my newspaper, or had commericials on mainstream TV in my experience.

WoW is to MMOs what the Ipod is to MP3 Players. Now, if you're a competitor within the MP3 Player field, it only makes sense that you'd want to take all the lessons you can from Apple's success with the Ipod. You probably can't hope to dethrone the Ipod, but you can learn about whats popular about it, what features people like, and try to incorporate those things into your own product.

Now, its popular to bash WoW around here in some quarters, and I'm sure the game has its flaws. But with seven million subscribers (according to their advertising anyways), there's probably something for CoH to learn from WoW.

A slight delay, I think, would be OK with most folks. There would of course be some complaining, thats inevitable. Its when delays start to get longer and longer, and it seems like its becoming a pattern that people get more riled up. Its like if your friend is late by ten or fifteen minutes to meet you, thats not so big a deal. But if that friend is a hour late, thats more of an issue. And if your friend is consistantly an hour late, then, you start wondering if its worth making plans with them anymore.

Originally, IIRC, Issue Seven was aimed at being released in April. To that end, they started promoting it in Febuary. And then for various reasons it didn't arrive on Live until June. Which meant we'd been hearing about the issue for months by then. The sense of excitement and anticipation that the initial promotion of an issue brings gets replaced by a "is this thing ever coming out" sort of feeling.

Issue Eight is suffering from some of the same problems. Not so much the premature promotion, but the taking too long to go from Test to Live. I think part of what is upsetting people is that the Issue Seven debacle, which we had hoped was an isolated incident, feels like it could be becoming the standard to expect from now on.

I don't know, it just feels to me like the sense of excitement and energy that a new update brings to the game is getting squandered by the delays. When CoV launched, we had the highest subscriber count the game has seen, excepting perhaps the months between CoH Launch and WoW launching. Failing to get an update out for six months after that really squandered a lot of that momentum in my opinion. And it feels like this becoming a pattern. Thats not good.

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Someone is watching this thread closely, it seems. A bunch of posts got deleted when Friggin Taser had a momentary lapse in logic.

EDIT: it's ok Taser, ur still awsome.

[/ QUOTE ] Friggin Taser post is what got deleted , anyone that replied off his original post were automatically deleted.

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Yep. Unfortunately, posts are sort of chained together on this forum, so if you delete one post, all posts that replied to the deleted post go in the can as well.

I've noticed a few times that Lighthouse has taken to just editing out the content of a post and putting in "Post Deleted by Lighthouse" or words to that effect. I much prefer that approach.

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After digesting this thread for a little while and thinking about it fully, I've come to a conclusion.

The Playerbase really doesn't know what it wants.

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Now, this will apparantly come as a shock (hur hur) to you, but the Playerbase is not some gestalt entity with a hive mind. Did you think that the 170,000 some odd players were all members of the Borg or something? Are you actually suprised that a group made up of thousands of individuals has conflicting priorities and viewpoints?

This is basic human nature stuff. I'm at a loss to understand how you may have missed learning this rather basic fact of life.

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Dude, you've been around for two and a half years, look at who you're talking to... seriously...

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This is true. Just trying to illustrate the absurdity of the complaint I suppose.

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After digesting this thread for a little while and thinking about it fully, I've come to a conclusion.

The Playerbase really doesn't know what it wants.

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Now, this will apparantly come as a shock (hur hur) to you, but the Playerbase is not some gestalt entity with a hive mind. Did you think that the 170,000 some odd players were all members of the Borg or something? Are you actually suprised that a group made up of thousands of individuals has conflicting priorities and viewpoints?

This is basic human nature stuff. I'm at a loss to understand how you may have missed learning this rather basic fact of life.

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Or we could, y'know, just shuttup and play the game and be excited when a new issue comes our way rather than going on and on endlessly about how some of us think we know better.

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If thats your opinion, why the hell are you reading a feedback forum? Seriously, can we follow you around and post "shut up and play" after everything you say?

Excitment is one of the problems with this glacial update schedule. Six months between updates sucks excitement out of the playerbase.

Depends on what percentage of the monthly fees go to NCSoft and Cryptic, and what restrictions if any there are on what that money can be spent on.

I don't believe that the poor perfomance of Auto Assault is affecting CoH directly. Remember that Cryptic develops the game, not NCSoft, and a third company, NetDevil I think, develops AA. Now, poor performance of AA could affect the NCSoft run aspects of CoH, like the forums, GMs, tech support, etc.

But actual development at Cryptic? Unlikely to be affected in my opinion. The one place where poor performance of other NCSoft games could potentially affect CoH is in QA, as all patches must go through NCSoft QA before they hit our Test Server and thence to Live. It is conceivable that say, staff reducations in the NCSoft QA department brought in as a result of poor performance of other games could slow that process down.

MUO, well, thats more likely to drain developer time and attention away from CoH than other NCSoft games IMO. As an established company with a track record Cryptic surely got a better deal from Marvel and Microsoft than the deal they made with NCSoft when they were a startup studio with no record to point to, and therefore little bargaining power. MUO is Cryptic's future, while CoH is its past and present.

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From my persepctive the Faultline zoen does make sense in level range.

FAR more players run through the pre-30's content multiple times compared to the higehr levels.

Now dotn get me wrong Im looking forward to a revamped shard and a whole new set of arcs for the 40+ area.

Alts a plenty means we need to keep the pre-30 game fresh.

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Its an interesting question... Do people roll alts and play through the early game more often in part because there is far more diversity of content in the early game than there is in the high level game? The increased XP to level as you advance certainly plays a role too I'm sure.

Would not adding more diversity to the 35+ content perhaps encourage more people to play through the higher end of the game more often?

I do hope Cryptic isn't simply looking at the level ranges of characters people are playing and not thinking critically about the possible reasons behind those numbers.

I should note that I, personally, have never run out of missions in the 30-40 gap that some have enountered. But I recognize that its a problem for some folks.

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The delays are mainly because there is alot more being jammed into each issue, not because of anything you have listed.

Looking at the number of issues isn't really fair especially when you consider that issues like 'Colosseum' had almost nothing in the way of content added and 'A Council of War' simply added the Kheldians and their story arcs. Issue 8 is adding safeguard missions, veteran rewards, the new costume options, new powers, a whole new zone and its giving powers an overhaul.

In terms of raw bulletpoint features the issues might have more of a gap between them but they contain a great deal more additions.

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Small correction. I3 "A Council of War" only had the first two or three kheldian arcs. The post level 20 or so arcs were added in I4. I3 added Striga though, with all its associated story arcs and two TFs. I3 also added the difficulty slider, Global Chat, and the Calvin Scott TF, stacking armors, made Fear useable, and added APPs.

Zloth's update history Is a good reference to see what was added in each Issue.

I8 has no new powers aside from the vet reward powers, which are simply copies of existing temp powers. There's no "overhaul of powers" either. I don't know where you come up with that. Are you referring to the graphics updates to a few powers?

All in all, I8 has significantly less new content than I7, and yet it is taking just as long.

Or, more people will play with the new stuff in I8 for a month or two, cancel their subscriptions, and come back when the devs get around to updating the game again.

The update schedule as it is now, is not doing the game any favours.

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Well, certain people have left to pursue other projects, like Zeb Cook (Lord Recluse), and now Captain Mako (Sean Fish).

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Not to nitpick, but Sean Fish is Manticore.

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Whoops. You're right. Mako is Shane Helmsley I think.

Would you expect them to publicly admit that delays and slow updates are to be expected? Or that they've internally shifted resources to focus on other projects?

I wouldn't. It wouldn't exactly be the smartest PR move on their part.

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But the hero "protect" missions aren't brand new....they're a copy of the mayhem missions...shouldn't that have helped make them a bit easier?

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They're not an exact copy. But yes, it looks like this will be a six month delay rather than seven, as I7 was.

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Lots of lost staff,

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Cryptic haven't lost any staff, they've taken staff on. NCSoft have lost staff, which may or may not have had an impact on QA.

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Well, certain people have left to pursue other projects, like Zeb Cook (Lord Recluse), and now Captain Mako (Sean Fish).

I'm more concerned that while Cryptic has not lost much in the way of staff, I do wonder about whether or not the bulk of the staff at Cryptic may not be working on other projects like MUO or other games they are apparantly developing.

I sort of have the feeling that CoH is yesterday's news.

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Yep...considering that I9 will be considerably larger than I8 I would easily wager a guess at a May-June launch for it...hell, by then they'll have to come up with new Vet rewards to go past the 3 year mark.

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They seem to have a fair size chuck of it under works already though, which is nice.

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While thats true, theres no guarantee that any of that work they've done already will amount to anything. They'd done enough work on the skill system for elements of it to show up in the pigg files during I3 or so, and that never materialized, for a range of reasons.

I'm afraid I'm very skeptical of the ability/will of the devs to get new systems and updates out in anything approaching a timely manner.

Any additional secondary effect to Fire Blast is likely to come at the price of the additional DoT.

That said, a small To Hit Debuff could be appopriate, because its sort of hard to aim when you're on fire.

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Hi gang,

I just wanted to comment that this isn't a scientific foray into poll making Cricket and I have been talking more about doing more regular Forum Polls and we put this one together to see how things would go over.

Looks like it started up some good conversation. I'm sure we will be doing more polls in the future!

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I think this is a great idea Lighthouse. I've said a number of times in the past that I think some more polls or surveys would be a valueable tool for the developers. Especially given the new "give the players what they want" mantra. While forum threads and posts are of course a little more in depth in terms of feedback, polls and surveys can give you folks some quick quantative data to work with.

I might suggest that you put a notice in the updater about whatever the current polls might be, so players who dont regularly visit the forums get a chance to make their voices heard as well.

I would have picked PvE Combat if that was an option, which it should have been IMO.

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In an upcoming patch, here are a few things you'll see:
Increased EDIT:Maximum ranges for attacks like Blaze.
Some improvements for */Fire (No, no powers were switched out. No Fiery Embrace, I'm afraid. )
Some improvements for Fire/*
A very minor improvement for Gadgets...I mean, Devices! (Yeah, it was a dumb mistake -- typing in haste and all of that.)

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Let Bitter Ice Blast be your guide in adjusting the high-damage attacks. Never made sense to me why BIB was so much longer than the other attacks in the first place.

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What is Ice's exchange for not having a snipe then?

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Two single target holds probably. Also, the best animation times of any set and one of the best secondary effects on its blasts.

Snipes aren't that hot anyways, haven't been since ED. Anyhow, Archery's Blazing Arrow (the archery 3rd single target blast) already outranges BiB, and Archery has a Snipe too. I don't know that theres a spreadsheet where having a snipe is equated to other powers in some sort of numerical fashion. I suspect that there isn't.

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Have you ever used the Archery snipe? Not quite worth the interruptability.

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All the snipes are interrtuptable. I wasn't making any kind of point about the specific value of Archery's snipe. The person I was responding to was obviously putting forth the idea that Ice Blast's greater range on its third single target blast, Bitter Ice Blast compared to, for example, Energy Blast's , is a compensation for the lack of a Snipe in Ice Blast.

Archery, as I point out, has both a third single target attack, Blazing Arrow, that outranges Bitter Ice Blast, and Archery also has a Snipe.

Therefore, the range on Bitter Ice Blast is not necessarily something that was based on the lack of a Snipe in Ice Blast.

And this is all a very long way of explaining what my original post already freaking said!

I do hope you get it now.

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In an upcoming patch, here are a few things you'll see:
Increased EDIT:Maximum ranges for attacks like Blaze.
Some improvements for */Fire (No, no powers were switched out. No Fiery Embrace, I'm afraid. )
Some improvements for Fire/*
A very minor improvement for Gadgets...I mean, Devices! (Yeah, it was a dumb mistake -- typing in haste and all of that.)

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Let Bitter Ice Blast be your guide in adjusting the high-damage attacks. Never made sense to me why BIB was so much longer than the other attacks in the first place.

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What is Ice's exchange for not having a snipe then?

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Two single target holds probably. Also, the best animation times of any set and one of the best secondary effects on its blasts.

Snipes aren't that hot anyways, haven't been since ED. Anyhow, Archery's Blazing Arrow (the archery 3rd single target blast) already outranges BiB, and Archery has a Snipe too. I don't know that theres a spreadsheet where having a snipe is equated to other powers in some sort of numerical fashion. I suspect that there isn't.

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In an upcoming patch, here are a few things you'll see:
Increased EDIT:Maximum ranges for attacks like Blaze.


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It would be great if this meant a buff to Shout, Blaze, and Power Burst to Bitter Ice Blast Range, or at least close to BiB range. (say, 40 compared to BiB's 50)

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Some improvements for */Fire (No, no powers were switched out. No Fiery Embrace, I'm afraid. )
Some improvements for Fire/*


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/Fire definetly needs some help. Not sure what needs to be buffed in Fire Blast other than Blaze's range, which you already mentioned. I suppose a new animation for Flares would help, since its pretty much universaly skipped right now, unless youre a /Fire Dom who has to take it.

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A very minor improvement for Gadgets...I mean, Devices! (Yeah, it was a dumb mistake -- typing in haste and all of that.)


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Make AT portable again? Stope Smoke Grenade from suppressing Cloaking Device? Please tell me it isn't something silly like increasing Caltrop's range.

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I have some ideas for other changes/improvements, but there is no ETA on when or if I'll get them in.


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When everyone else is on lunch. Or I suggest giving Positron something to sign towards the end of you office Christmas Party. After he's had a few "refreshments" of course.

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So what happens to the in-game Mako?
What happens to Pocket D appearances?
Will Mako just continue on in game as an NPC only? No more special appearances?

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I'm sure he'll still appear in Game and in special appearances. The Captain Mako character surely is owned by Cryptic. Note that Lord Recluse was the handle of Zeb Cook, who left Cryptic a long time ago and is now a dev on the Stargate MMO.

These bugs are among the reasons that PvP never really took off in my opinion. Its a shame that they put so much effort into producing the arenas and then didn't get them properly working. Fixing these bugs and adding a feature to allow us to choose the arena map we want to use would make it a lot more palatable.

As this guide explains, you usually need to place an avatar on your own image hosting space. Both Image Shack and Photobucket have free accounts you can get that are easy to use.

Many people here use screenshots of their characters, for example, that they have cut down to the right size for an avatar. They then place that image on their Image Shack account, and link to it from there.

To set up your avatar on the forum, you click on My Home at the top of the forum. Then click on the link that says Edit beside "Personal information, email, password, etc."

At the next screen, at the bottom of the page are two round boxes. Click the one that says "Enter the URL to your avatar" Then put the URL to your avatar in the field provided.

If you're looking for a site with a bunch of premade avatars, I cant help you, as I make my own.

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"You can use this power to create a solidified hologram of a Redcap Rascal. It will follow you around wherever you go. Great for parties!"

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Then he needs an H on his forehead!

(sorry, nerd reference)

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Smeghead!

Sorry, just wanted to see if that got throught he filter.