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Beam and Time are both sets that demand a lot of activation time to shine. They aren't a good mechanical pairing.
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Quote:In the vast majority of cases, especially for single target powers, proc rates are going to increase.I have to wonder if the PPM change Synapse announced is going to be like the next ED or GDN.
We can call it the Great Proc Blocking of 2012.
AoEs that aren't extremely rapid cycling will remain similar or improve.
Quote:Yes it worked great in autos but the original version was lack luster in AOEs you really mean to tell me that twice as bad in AOEs is how it should have been from the start? It alone was to be denied the amazing in some places, awful in others role the other PPM procs got
Given the same mentality is goin into the new fix being proposed... -
Quote:Agreed in the specific example of Hasten, for most builds, because as you point out the performance difference once downtime is low starts to become meaningless, but as you said yourself,In your example with Hasten, I think the big motivation is the psychological desire to not have up and down performance. That's qualitatively judged to have a penalty associated with it that is not quantitative.
Quote:its too complex to say what the actual "return on investment" is for different kinds of changes except when dealing with very specific changes to specific builds that can't always be extrapolated.
In the former two, the difference between 10 seconds of downtime or 0 is not just qualitative, as it's not hard to imagine a scenario in which the downtime on one of those abilities could pretty easily result in death.
In the latter, If I recall correctly the necessary recharge to sustain the optimal attack chain is something like 300% in Follow Through and near that in Arc of Destruction. Having a recharge fluctuation during that attack chain would impact DPS (Momentum mechanic aside, but that has the potential to make it much worse depending on timing).
As I said before, the absolute value of reduction is definitely not the only consideration, and you're probably right that it's not the most important consideration, but I don't feel it's necessarily as disconnected from the game mechanics as you seem to. -
I've always wished that instead of blocking KB effects, the Immobilizes instead capped their magnitude at 0.67, but I doubt that will ever happen. I think it would be viewed as overpowering for high-frequency knockbacks.
Immob+Tornado, for example, would become near-hold-level CC. -
Quote:I would explain to you all the things that are wrong with this post, but Snowzone and Bill seem to have managed just fine.Yes, but plant is stupidly overpowered. It is better than all of the others. So being worse than plant means nothing.
Ice could use help. It needs to have its immobilizes not break ice slick. Other than that it is great.
If I were ever insane enough to make another Ice Controller, I probably wouldn't either. As it happens, my only one is Ice/Storm, so she's heavily dependent on Frostbite to utilize her Storm powers for damage. -
The quote in Greyhame's post is pre-PPM Proposal 2.0.
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You're right in that I should have said "the more recharge you have, the less each percentage point is worth as an absolute value in seconds."
However, people do frequently build for recharge for the absolute value in seconds reduced from a cooldown. This is especially common when considering buff uptime.
The most prevalent example is probably Hasten, which has a 450s cooldown at 0% Recharge (note that I'm disregarding the complication made by the fact that Hasten has a partial-uptime Recharge buff itself, since, while it makes the math more complicated than I feel like doing, it doesn't affect the point) which has a 120/450 ~= 26.67% uptime.
Hasten with 50% Recharge has a 450/1.5 = 300 second Recharge, a reduction from base of ~33.33%. 120/300 = 40% uptime, an increase of ~33%.
Hasten with 100% Recharge has a 450/2 = 225 second Recharge, a reduction from 50% recharge of 25%. 120/225 ~= 53.33% uptime, an increase from 50% recharge of ~25%.
When speaking in the relative, each 50% Recharge increase is about a 13.33% uptime increase from the previous, but in the absolute sense, the second 50% recharge increases the buff uptime by ~25% less than the first. Every percentage point of Recharge gains you less uptime than the previous, until you hit the magic number where the buff becomes permanent, at which point, unless it can stack, any further increase has no value at all.
This isn't the only perspective of recharge, certainly, but I don't see how it's an incorrect one, either. -
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Quote:No one ever said it was, either.The great part of all this is that Mace wasn't proven to be a bad set.
Quote:Interestingly, I dont agree about ice control at all. It's my favorite control set, and I find it to be the best control set in the game, especially against higher level targets
Quote:The immobilizes are a bit silly too, the -kb needs to go.
That isn't an advantage, every melee set can slot the Gladiator's -Res Proc (except for a few special cases on Stalkers where the only PBAOE in the set is removed, which doesn't actually matter because Stalkers get neither BA or WM).
Quote:Especially since it doesn't offer -250% It offers -150% and you have to use TWO powers to obtain that amount. Not to mention if you miss with the first power of -100% you don't even get the -50% from the second power.
Oh, and the effects for those powers? A slow and and a hold that are highly resisted by the targets you'd want to use -Regen on.Quote:...I really hope this is a joke. High magnitude +Damage (which is notably only brought by Kin, and is the major selling point of the set) and -Regen are just about the only things Time Manipulation DOESN'T have from the huge Support toolkit.
It's one of the best support sets in the game and without question the most well-rounded one. It does a bit of everything, it has the best personal +Defense buff, the best personal +Recharge, and probably the best Control, MAYBE matched by Dark Miasma. -
Quote:If you didn't see a mile away that IO procs were going to be converted to PPMs sooner or later, that's probably your own fault.I bought ONE Lockdown proc when it was put on sale - it had a 100% proc rate in Shadow Storm, which made it worthwhile for my stalker to buy it. I'm not necessarily angry that it's now capped at 90%, but rather there was NO reason for me to buy it since I already had a level 30 proc in the power which I overwrote for the SBE version.
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Quote:The formula for actual recharge is Base Recharge / (1 + ΣRecharge Increase) where Base Recharge is a value in seconds and ΣRecharge Increase is the decimal sum of all recharge modifiers such as enhancements, buffs, and debuffs.I don't currently have the means of verifying whether Recharge buffs provide diminishing returns (as memory fails me at the moment), but if they do, it will mean that those with high Global Recharge benefits will be seeing toxicity in Enhancement Recharge values, which also makes Enhancement Boosted IOs with a Recharge component dangerous to min-maxed builds.
In short, yes, the more recharge you have, the less each percentage point is worth. -
You were probably lagging.
Both powers have a recharge time of 12 seconds.
With ArcanaTime, Shatter has a 2.508s cast and Crowd Control has a 2.244s.
12/2.508 -1 = 3.78
12/2.244 -1 = 4.35 -
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Yeah, Titan Weapons would like a word with you, eth. It's the best ST and AoE DPS set in the game.
Fire and Dark both have much better single-target for Scrappers, and Fire has, while not as good as Mace, a decent AoE in FSC. Both also feature exotic damage. StJ might beat them both at ST.
For AoE, Dual Blades and Broad Sword are least partitive if not better. Electric and Spines are certainly better. Claws is probably even.
Super Strength is better, too, for non-Scrappers.
Quote:Whirling Smash blows Crowd Control out of the water for DPA, does nearly the same base damage, has a wider radius, and is a full PBAOE, not a cone.I have.
None of the TW attacks have jack on crowd control. Closest is Arc of Destruction, which deals good damage, but it still lacks the mitigation and target cap.
Beyond that, Arc of Destruction (which also has a wider radius and does almost twice the damage of Crowd Control, with a better DPA even without momentum, though only hitting 5 targets) and Titan Sweep are both so infinitely much better than Whirling Mace and Shatter that there is really no comparison between the sets.
Then you have Defensive Sweep for filler.
Oh, and Follow Through is the one attack that actually beats Clobber for DPA, while the rest of TW's ST attack chain makes Mace's want to cry in a corner.
On top of all this TW has room for much better proc options than Mace. -
Quote:Eh... It has one really, really awesome attack (Clobber) which is brought down by the awfulness of the rest of it's single-target powers, and one good AoE with two more average ones, and is all smashing damage.Actually Draeth, I think Mace is really good. Bland? sure, but a really good set.
Like I said, it's not a bad set, but it's certainly not one of the best, either.
Edit: One other thing, it and Battle Axe (Well, and Archery, if you count ranged sets) are also the only pure S/L sets that can't fit an Achilles proc anywhere, if I'm not mistaken. -
Caveat: this entire post will ignore concept/theme as a reason to select a powerset. My thoughts are purely in regard to mechanics.
Quote:All ATs' Electric Blast, Energy Blast, Dual Pistols, and Assault Rifle could stand for serious improvements.Ranged sets (Blaster/Corruptor primary, Defender secondary):
The one I see brought up most often is Electrical Blast, since it sacrifices some damage for a secondary effect that is difficult to leverage and arguably not all that effective even when you can.
Blaster Psi is awful compared to to all other versions of the set and pretty bad compared to other Blaster sets for no compelling reason.
Non-Blaster Radiation is terrible. Blaster Radiation is okay for AoE.
Quote:Melee sets (Scrapper/Brute/Stalker primary, Tanker secondary):
Energy Melee seems pretty high on a lot of lists, although I'm not experienced enough with the set personally to say why. My own choice would probably be Dual Blades, primarily because its gimmick of attack chains is actually better off ignored at the highest levels of performance, and chaining your highest DPS attacks will always be better than playing "properly". I'm not sure if it's underpowered as a result, but it doesn't seem like that's WAI.
War Mace, and Battle Axe could stand to be given a little bit more personality, but they're not necessarily bad, just somewhat bland and pretty similar.
Energy Melee, Spines, and Broad Sword probably need mechanical help the most after Ice, as a guess.
Quote:Control sets (Controller/Dominator primary):
Ice Control is begging for a niche pretty badly. It's got a fairly random grab-bag of tools that don't quite fit together, and although you can manage decently with what you're given, it never really seems like there's any reason beyond concept to recommend it over the other choices available.- Shiver is practically useless.
- Flash Freeze is entirely useless.
- Ice Slick is useless for hard targets (EB, AV, GM) and almost everything in Incarnate content.
- Glacier has a needless restriction (can't be cast in the air).
- Jack's damage and control are both mediocre.
- Arctic Air suffers from a personal identity crisis, and would lose its 50%/50% terror/confuse and its recharge slow in favor of a 100% confuse chance and a damage component if I had any say in it.
Mind Control could stand to be made more group friendly, mostly due to it's heavy reliance on Sleep, but it does well solo. Specifically I'd look at making Mass Confusion equivalent to Seeds of Confusion. I'd say better, because it's a Tier 9, but SoC is pretty ridiculous. Telekinesis could definitely be made better, too.
Quote:Buff/debuff sets (Defender primary, Controller/Corruptor/Mastermind secondary):
In end game content I can't see much to recommend Force Field. Its primary goal seems to be leveraging defense and KB to mitigate incoming damage, but in incarnate trials there are so many things which simply ignore all of that and autohit anyway.
Sonic Resonance and Trick Arrow could handle some improvement.
Poison is still pretty mediocre in my opinion, considering its formerly-single-target debuffs only splash for half effect and have pretty small areas. I don't see a mechanical reason to ever use it over Rad or Cold, for example.
Quote:Defensive sets (Tanker primary, Scrapper/Brute/Stalker secondary):
Probably Stone Armor? I honestly don't think there are any true underdogs in this category, but Stone Armor (especially Granite form) is a bit of a relic of a byegone era. It gets results, but it makes sacrifices that none of the other sets are subjected to.
Stone could handle some rebalancing of its tier 1-8 powers to make the choice between normal toggles versus Granite a good one.
Quote:Summon sets (Mastermind primary):
Opinion seems fairly divided between Mercenaries and Ninjas. Personally I think Mercenaries are awful even in ideal circumstances, whereas Ninjas are actually (for the most part) ok if they get a chance to do their thing. Primarily I think it's because Spec Ops don't hold up their end of the deal, they do insignificant damage but don't really control/debuff well enough to make up for it.
Ninjas have a strong point (ST DPS), but that's offset by the fact that Demons are still better at it, an order of magnitude or three more durable and have significantly better AoE.
Necro pets are also annoyingly squishy but otherwise do fairly well.
Beasts suffer because they have numerous long-recharge, partial-uptime buffs that the AI isn't programmed to use decently.
The pet sets all really need to be brought up to the consistent durability levels of Demons/Bots/Thugs, and Masterminds as a whole need some time devoted to bug fixing, AI improvements, proliferation of Recharge Intensive Pet IO powers, and improvement of personal attacks.
Quote:Manipulation sets (Blaster secondary):
No idea, I have less experience with blasters than any other AT, and zero experience with them in endgame activities.
Quote:Assault sets (Dominator secondary):
Not really sure about these either, to be honest. The only AT I have less experience with is Blasters.
Quote:Buff/Debuff: Hmmm...
I want to say Time Manipulation because I still think it needs it's -Regen bumped to a useful level.
It's one of the best support sets in the game and without question the most well-rounded one. It does a bit of everything, it has the best personal +Defense buff, the best personal +Recharge, and probably the best Control, MAYBE matched by Dark Miasma. -
/Time/Mace is probably the best use of Ninjas in the game right now.
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Quote:Synapse has already posted the answers to both of these questions. Read the Dev Digest.Synapse, I know you've tossed out the numbers (or projected numbers) based on your formulas. But what about the auto on powers that don't have 'recharge times' that can accept Procs? Just how would they work with these changes. Performance Shifter (which has been the prime example in regards to the PPM vs straight up percent debate in other threads) is a prime example here in that it's fairly common to hear of people slotting it into stamina.
I mean I don't mean to come off as paranoid, but since we're talking a power that essentially has a 0 for recharge time, wouldn't that possibly muck up the procs that they're slotted in?
Also, just for an official word in regards to what would count as a Proc in regards to the changes you're talking about and what wouldn't? I doubt the +Stealth would count myself, but without some sort of official list that you guys can point at in regards to what counts and what doesn't, there probably will be some confusion in regards to which enhancements are being changed and which aren't. -
Devastation and Touch of Death are both 15% Proc Chance IO, 2.5 PPM SBO. They were the only 15% IOs I could think to check; I didn't realize Lockdown broke that pattern.
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15% IOs are currently 2.5 PPM, and would be increased to 3.125 PPM with the proposed changes.
In Acid Mortar: 3.125 * 0.04825 = 0.1508, or about 15%, still.
I'm assuming this question is referring to the Devastation proc, which can be slotted by the Corruptor/Defender versions of Acid Mortar. -
Quote:I'm actually pretty curious about this, so I'm going to run through the math here.For my main my io proc slotting in caltrops and acid mortar is getting ripped to shreds
Acid Mortar (the power the pet launches):
Activation Time 0.0s (this is probably a bug, good thing we have The Powers Guy in here, huh?)
Recharge Time: 5.5s
Radius: 8
Area Factor: 2.2 (1 + 0.15*8)
Adjusted Area Factor: 1.9 (1 + (2.2-1)*0.75)
The Recharge can't be adjusted, because it's a pet power, so we shouldn't have to worry about variable recharge levels.
Proc Chance = PPM * (5.5 + 0.0)/(60 * 1.9)
Proc Chance = PPM * 5.5/114
Proc Chance = PPM * 0.04825
A 20% proc now will convert into a 3.75 PPM proc, and a 33% proc will convert into a 5.625 PPM proc under the proposed changes.
3.75 * 0.04825 = 0.1809
5.625 * 0.04825 = 0.2714
So, yes, Acid Mortar will see a slight reduction in proc rate, decreasing it's proc chances to ~18% with normal procs and ~27% with Ragnarok, but I'd hardly call it "ripped to shreds."
Note that ATO procs put into Acid Mortar will actually increase unilaterally in proc rate because the Recharge can't be reduced, but the PPM value of those procs will be increased by 25%.
Caltrops I'm afraid I can't help you with, as I don't feel like hunting down the pseudopet in City of Data to calculate it's Area Factor.
As a note regarding Traps, according to the Real Numbers info the powers Trip Mine and Time Bomb use to deal damage have 16 minute 40 second recharges, and Poison Trap's is 0.0 seconds, all which will break the PPM formula gloriously.
Edit:
Quote:b.) They are attuned, making them highly desirable for those of us who primarily use an existing main to experience new content at all levels.
After IO procs are converted to PPM, minimum-level IO procs will be completely identical to Attuned procs. -
I'd really like to know how the Powers Team feels about the "10 second rule" regarding all this.
The entire reason it even exists is to prevent damage auras and Rains from not demolishing everything in sight with procs. I think it would be very cool if, out of all this, we could see that rule get abolished, since PPMs would solve that issue much more elegantly. -
Quote:The Hecatomb PPM is currently 4.5, not 6, so you're going to lose more than that. Assuming a 25% increase it will only be 5.625.I'm using the normal Hecatomb proc, not the SBE. The new formula penalizes my Shadow Punch less than the original posted one. But, I"ll still lose ~3.7% proc chance (33% down to ~29.3%; assuming 25% PPM increase from 6 to 7.5).
I can't say I appreciate the idea of being nerfed ANY to fix the broken PPM SBEs that you introduced that I'm not even using.
However, this is far nicer cut on my proc chance than the original formula was going to be. So, there is that.
I still advocate a Floor proc chance at the existing rate. No nerfs for anybody, and some long recharge powers get a more proportionate increase from procs. -
Quote:I vehemently disagree.As such, I wonder whether having a cap on *how much* recharge it will consider in the proc chance formula might work out better than distinguishing between different sources of recharge - in other words, trying to only decrease the proc chance by an amount of recharge you could reasonably be expected to *benefit* from. For example, if it only considered (say) the first 100% worth of recharge, regardless of source, then it doesn't matter if you've been buffed to the recharge cap in a MS raid.
I much prefer the enhancements-only method. This leaves me in control what affects recharge has on my powers. Your proposal still leaves me at the mercy of a random well-intended Kineticist.