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Desmodos

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  1. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Syntax42 View Post
    You went past 32.5% on S/L and left E/N in a bad spot. There is a lot of energy damage at level 50, especially in current incarnate content. Screenshots of I20 suggest it will likely be a major threat there, too.
    This is tad misleading. While I would agree it is better to have both S/L Defense and E/Ne defense, it's important to remember there is considerable over lap with typed defense. Very few attacks will be exclusively energy attacks. The majority of attacks will a second component. The most likely 'other' component will be smashing or lethal.

    Given the choice between {35% S/L defense with 25% E/Ne def} vs {32% S/L defense with 35% E/Ne defense}; I'd chose the first option. (that's specific to Dark Armor scrappers.)
  2. Desmodos
    Apologies for the late reply, busy weak with RL stuffs...

    I should point out I hate all this maths stuff...gives me a massive headache. On that note, please double check my numbers as I often cross multiply when I should be dividing by zero.



    To make apt comparisons, I've made some modifications to my build for to more closely match what Auroxis is getting at. Specifically, both builds need to have 15% damage bonus from sets and both builds need to have Musculature Radial Paragon slotted. While I still question the wisdom of building either Spines in this fashion, that's a separate debate.



    For the sake of clarity, I am comparing the build Auroxis posted in response to my build and a my modified build.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
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    Code:
    | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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    All of the Spines Powers are slotted identically as are the damage auras and Fire Ball. The means the DPA for each attack is identical. That means the damage output for a single target or AoE attack chain will be identical.

    Using the following AoE attack chain:
    Quote:
    Throw Spines-->Spine Burst -->Fire Ball
    The duration of this attack chain is 6.2048 s
    Quote:
    Throw Spines + Spine Burst + Fire Ball
    1.848 + 3.168 + 1.1888 = 6.2048
    Using Arcanatime settings in Mid's
    The relevance of recharge is significant to extent that allows you to chain these attacks together continuously. With the aid of Hasten both builds achieve this. While Hasten is up, recharge contributes nothing to damage output. Recharge remains significant to the extent of Perm-hasten. Neither build achieves perma-hasten. Auroxis Spines/Elec build falls 7 seconds short. My Spines/DA build falls 10 seconds short. Advantage to Spines/Elec, but IMHO it's quite negligible.

    The real crux of the issue, is how long can this attack chain be maintained.
    Auroxis Spines/Elec build has a net EPS of 1.619. On that build, the cost of the attack chain is 4.15 EPS.

    Quote:
    Throw Spines + Spine Burst + Fire Ball
    (8.523+6.75+10.5)/6.2048 =
    25.773/6.2048 = -4.15 EPS
    Assuming the attack chain is run continuously and Power Sink is never used, Auroxis Spines/Elec build will run out of endurance in ~44 seconds.
    Quote:
    -4.15 + 1.619 = -2.531
    110/2.531 = 44 seconds.
    On my Spines/DA build, the net EPS is 1.62. On this build, the cost of the AoE attack chain is 5.429 EPS.
    Quote:
    Throw Spines + Spine Burst + Fire Ball
    (12.81 + 9.76 + 11.12)/6.2048 =
    33.69/6.2048 = 5.429 EPS
    Again, assuming the attack chain is run continuously and Dark Regeneration is never used, my Spines/DA build will run out of endurance in ~31 seconds.
    Quote:
    -5.429 + 1.62 = -3.81
    118.55/3.81 = 31 seconds
    In this area, Electric armor initially appears to have the advantage as it can maintain the AoE attack chain 13 seconds longer. The question becomes to what degree is the advantage significant? If you factor in Power Sink (assuming you have enough accuracy to reliably hit multiple targets) Spines/Elec should be able to sustain the attack chain indefinitely (not factoring Hasten downtime.) The issue will rest on the success of the Theft of the Essence: +10% endurance proc (20% chance.) On average, the proc will make the activation of Dark Regeneration free (assuming you had sufficient endurance to fire it in the first place.) On the spines/DA build I posted, DR has a recharge of 9 seconds, which gives you three chances to roll the dice and hope the proc hits enough targets to fill your end bar. This is by no means a guarantee, but at 20% per target, the very scenarios that lend to the AoE attack chain are ideal for firing off Dark Regeneration for endurance gain.


    Conclusion: There is no significant advantage to damage output to Spines/Elec over Spines/Dark Armor. It is undoubtedly easier to manage endurance with Electric Armor and this will likely steer most players away from Cardiac Alpha slots (which is debatable.) Since Dark Armor requires endurance management, many players will initially gravitate towards the Cardiac Alpha slot (myself included.) That doesn't mean Dark Armor is required to utilize the Cardiac Alpha slot.
  3. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John_Printemps View Post
    For the record, speaking straight to you, Desmodos, the build I originally posted was a personal build.
    large snip for sake of brevity

    So yes, I could easily be ... uh, "crazy" if you will. The strange part is that no one else bothered to see that I'd done something so outlandish and tried to correct it
    Oh, I didn't look at your build from the onset, as I knew I wouldn't like it. Not a dig against you, just recall us having a difference of opinions from prior discussions. Your character, your time, and you should play it as you see fit. I still say your nuts, but you play Dark Armor so it's a given.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
    I never said this is how I would build a Spines/Elec, I just tried to stay as close as possible to JP's build so a comparison could be made. And like JP said you can include Impale and Ripper and the comparative numbers won't change.

    This is why I didn't want to get into build wars on this subject, as builds are a personal thing with lots of variables, and it's hard to compare builds of different flavors.
    Would have been nice had you stated so, but it retrospect I should have seen the build similarities. Serves me right for reading and posting in the forums between work and dinner.

    The instant you claim /Electric Armor can out damage /Dark Armor you've essentially created a build war. Now we can make claims with out builds that will prove nothing, hence the first half of this discussion.

    For the sake of comparing apples to apples you posted a comparable build, which is what I suggested. I just never got past the "I'd never play this" factor, for which I apologize.



    Quote:
    Also, I took the build you posted and tried to make it as comparable as possible on Spines/Elec. Again, more recharge and damage.
    Thank you for this. Will save me time to compare a build that's slightly more sane. Just kidding John_Printemps Granted, I won't be attempting a comparison until after work...and some dinner.
  4. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chuckles07 View Post
    So you're unable to post a build that's better then that? From the way you've been talking, it should be easy.
    I've made no claims regarding superiority of either Spines/Elec vs Spines/DA. Auroxis has made claims, the validity of which I doubt. Before any comparisons could be made, builds needed to be posted so we can all see what's actually being compared. That's all I've asked for in this discussion.

    Going back and reviewing yours, Auroxis, and John_Printemps builds and I've concluded you are all nucking futs. You've all skipped Impale and Ripper. I can't post a comparison build because I'd never play a build without Impale and Ripper. If that's what's required to obtain these numbers, I can happily say no thanks.


    Since it's been requested, here's the build I'm considering but I am not really happy with. Again, not really comparable.

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    | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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  5. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chuckles07 View Post
    Could you please post a build for comparison?
    A build with out Ripper and Impale...no, I'd never play it.
  6. Desmodos
    Quote:
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    Just so I understand correctly. You've skipped both Impale and Ripper to make room for Assault? This build completely abandons single target damage for 10% more AoE damage?

    That has nothing to do with Dark Armor vs Electric Armor, your build gimps Spines.
  7. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
    I just made this similar as possible build for Spines/Elec. I tried to stay as close as possible to the above Spines/DA build. It has more than sufficient levels of protection(softcapped), and more recharge and damage.

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    | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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    OH...now you want to present evidence...

    Incidentally, you posted a Spines/DA build.
  8. Desmodos
    This conversation is going nowhere.
  9. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
    Why isn't it relevant? You need endurance to do damage. You need your attacks up to do damage. You need +damage to do more damage.
    Because there aren't any sets you're slotting in Spine/Elec that have 0 endurance reduction. Every Damage set and every resistance set has some endurance reduction. It's a moot point. If you wanted to discuss an SO build, there would be some validity to your concerns. On IO builds, endurance reduction slotting simply isn't relevant to damage output.



    Quote:
    Sure, you need to also be alive to do damage, but the amount of survivability you need varies a lot depending on content and teammates. Extra damage is rarely ever unnecessary, especially considering the fact that you are a scrapper.
    This is quite far from truth. Depending the team, buffs from can actually make all of you +damage bonuses and enhancements completely meaningless. On a TF, a single fulcrum shift can cap your damage. A few Accelerate Metabolisms or Speed Boosts can make all of your endurance reduction and recharge completely meaningless. Teaming only makes your argument sillier, not stronger.
  10. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
    I'm really having a hard time figuring out why you can't understand that endurance is required to do damage, and that having to invest less in endurance gives you more options to increase your damage.
    There is nothing to understand. No one is disputing that endurance is required to perform attacks. It's simply not relevant.
  11. Desmodos
    Auroxis, from where I'm sitting, you seem to be comparing apples to oranges. I requested a build from you so a proper comparison could be done. You've chosen not to do so, which is your prerogative, but that requires nit picky side by side comparisons.

    Spines/DA (or any DA build) was capable of managing endurance before the introduction of IOs. No specific IO build or Alpha slot is required to achieve this. Players simply chose to do so for ease.

    Both Spines/DA and Spines/EL can chose Cardiac Alphas and completely ignore endurance slotting. Both would benefit from the additional resistance enhancement. Spines/Elec would remain weaker to Neg Energy and Toxic, where Spines/DA would remain weaker to Energy to a greater degree Toxic to a lesser degree. In short it's a wash.

    Both Spines/DA and Spines/Elec can chose Musculature Alpha slots. Each has a damage Aura of the same base damage. Neither has a damage boosting power in it's secondary. Both builds are subject to same damage caps and the same ED limitations. Neither would benefit fully from the damage portion unless they chose to sacrifice basic damage slotting. Both would benefit equally from portion that ignore ED. Spines/Elec would get more end drain out of Power Sink (the benefit of which would be debatable) and better movement via Lightening Reflexes. Spines/Dark would get more out of To Hit Debuff, but only if one chose Cloak of Fear.

    Both Spines/Elec and Spines/DA can chose Spiritual Alpha slots. Both would get the same amount of recharge enhancement. Before factoring in IOs, Spines/Elec would benefit more since those recharge values would stack directly with Lightening reflexes. The problem comes when both builds start stacking recharge from IOs. Due to diminishing returns, the recharge advantage of Lightening reflexes begins to dwindle. Once you've attained perma-hasten, additional recharge starts to become insignificant (not factoring in debuffs.) If you remove travel powers, Spiritual benefits Electric Armor's movement more, but once you factor in travel powers, they'd all be capped so that advantage becomes mute.


    In short, I have not seen anything presented that would lead me to believe Spines/DA or Spines/Elec has any significant advantage in damage output. When built to their strengths, both builds would be impressive AoE lawn mowing machines. At this point, I am hesitant to even accept the notion that Spines/DA has any real survival advantage over Spines/Elec. While in my hands, Spines/DA would be more survivable, but that's due more to my familiarity with Dark Armor. Anyone as well versed with Electric Armor should be able to do the same.
  12. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrandX View Post

    Here's a quick attempt at Spines/ELA

    45% Melee Defense. I chose Cardiac because I 1) Wasn't sure if Power Sink and Energize was enough to get around the END Consumption 2) Even more resists!

    Enough Recharge to go Impale-Ripper-Throw Spines for Single Targets as well (which I think was what I worked out as the best ST DPS for Spines).

    If it has enough END REC for it's END USE with just Power Sink, then I'd for sure go Spiritual Core for more RCH and HEAL, to bring Power Sink up even sooner as well as Energize.

    The added RCH for Spine Burst wouldn't hurt either

    You lost me BrandX. Was that build supposed to prove Auroxis point?
  13. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
    What is it you want me to do to make you get it? Create entire builds that have so many different variables? similar builds for two completely different powersets? What would be the point of that other than wasting my time?
    ...because you've wasted everyone else's time with this fabricated nonsense. You don't even need to set up multiple builds. Simply post recharge and damage values you believe Spines/Elec can achieve that Spines/DA cannot.


    Quote:
    Elec Armor starts with more recharge, and the difference won't go away unless you invest in slots. Elec Armor starts with more endurance, the difference won't go away unless you invest in slots. Elec Armor can use slots to get more damage. Thus the ceiling is higher.
    All I have asked is that you validate your statements. They are inconsistent with my understanding of CoX mechanics, Electric Armor game play and Dark Armor game play. I'm not above learning new things but you need to back up your claims.

    A ceiling would be the highest value a build can obtain. By virtue of being both scrappers, Spines/Elec has the same caps as Spines/DA.

    For all scrappers, the Damage cap is 500%.

    For all archetypes, the recharge cap is 400%.

    Thus the ceiling for both is the same.
  14. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
    No doubt both benefit from extra survivability, but they don't need it.
    That's debatable, but irrelevant to the conversation.

    Quote:
    When it comes to having more damage, Elec Armor has a higher ceiling than DA.
    This statement is emphatically false.


    Quote:
    You can go for sets like Obliteration, but you need to make up for the lack of endurance reduction it offers. You can go for sets like Mako's Bite, but that's not really closing the recharge gap between Elec Armor and DA. The reason nothing is preventing you from slotting those sets is because you spent slots on dealing with the endurance issues. An Elec Armor toon can use those same amount of slots to get another set.
    More generic statements that do nothing to support your position.
  15. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
    No it doesn't. Elec Armor doesn't need to beef up its HP and Defense any more than Dark Armor does. We're talking about damage potential here.
    Out of context. I was referring to Electric Armor comparable survivability to Dark Armor. For both Dark Armor and Electric Armor, adding recharge and defense is a good idea. Electric Armor needs more defense as it has none, but benefits greatly from adding HP. Dark Armor has minimal use for additional HP. Both builds benefit greatly from recharge which Dark Armor had none.

    In other words, the difference only affect focus of the build, not the final out come...which is what John_Printemps has been saying from the onset.

    Quote:
    The same works both ways. There are dozens of ways for Elec Armor to get more recharge and damage, but rely on its endurance management to work, and some of those options actually improve survivability. Here are some examples: the Obliteration PBAoE set, Positron's set, Purple sets, fitting a proc or a recharge enhancement instead of an endurance reduction enhancement, getting the Musculature or Spiritual alpha instead of Cardiac alpha, you can also focus on getting damage bonuses from IO sets instead of getting recovery and recharge(Makos Bite, Touch of Death, Obliteration all increase defense as well as damage).
    There is nothing preventing Dark Armor from choosing those same sets. Touch of Death, Obliteration, and Mako's Bite are popular choices for anyone wanting to build Dark Armor for positional defense. It's done routinely. There is nothing stated here that Electric Armor can do that Dark Armor cannot.



    Quote:
    It looks like I have to talk in circles to get through to you.
    ...because you still haven't said anything of substance. Mind you, I haven't even disagreed with you. I have made no claims as to the accuracy of your statements. On the contrary, I've invited you repeatedly to prove your stance with concrete values. You don't even need to post a build. State explicitly the recharge values or uber AoE attach chain that Spines/Elec can achieve that Spine/DA cannot. Granted, posting such a build would be easier, IMHO, but that's your choice.
  16. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
    I'm not saying one is vastly superior to the other in damage output, Elec Armor and Dark Armor are quite close. However, the base recharge and endurance management of Elec let you reach higher levels of offense. Simply put, DA needs to spend slots on endurance and recharge to reach Elec's baseline. Elec can spend those same amount of slots to get more offense. Also, Spine Burst and Throw Spines aren't the only AoE's in your arsenal that benefit from recharge. Fire Ball comes to mind.

    Starting a build war will do this thread no good.
    You are still making generic statements. In order to give any credence to those statements, you're going to have to back it up with actual numbers. Electric Armor doesn't add any damage to your Spines attacks. Unless you can provide recharge values that Dark Armor cannot achieve and/or sustain then your claims are meaningless. Their are dozens of ways for a Dark Armor build to resolve it's endurance issues, none of which require sacrificing recharge. In fact, some of those options actually improve global recharge.

    The advantage of extra recharge and easy endurance management allows to Electric Armor to make up it's lack of survivability. While Dark Armor works harder for recharge and endurance, Electric Armor needs to beef up it's HP and Defense.

    Unless you post concrete values that Spines/Elec can achieve and Spines/Dark Armor cannot, then you'll continue talking in circles.
  17. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
    You're missing the point. The endurance management lets you fit more offense/defense in your build(instead of building for endurance). You're also completely ignoring the fact that the faster your AoE's cycle the more efficient you are at dealing AoE damage(as long as you don't have a complete attack chain). If it's enough for you, that's great. But don't ignore the numbers.
    You're talking in circles. Try posting a build you consider vastly superior in damage output. I'm having are really hard time believing Lightening Reflexes will have the massive impact you are claiming.
  18. Desmodos
    How attached to Darkness Mastery are you? I've always found MA/DA to be the most endurance intensive builds. Physical Perfection is a really good way to mitigate that. Another option would be to switch from CoF to OG. I strongly prefer CoF but there is no denying the cumulative benefits of MA's stuns with OG.

    OK, this build won't be cheap but it will be pretty bad ***. Endurance will still occasionally be an issue, while running CoF.

    If the sticker shock hits you, flip all the purples over and dump the PvP IOs. Move a slot to Dark Blast and finish off the set. That set up will net you more energy defense but make CoF less effective.

    Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
    http://www.cohplanner.com/

    Click this DataLink to open the build!

    Level 50 Magic Scrapper
    Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
    Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
    Power Pool: Flight
    Power Pool: Fighting
    Power Pool: Leaping
    Ancillary Pool: Darkness Mastery

    Hero Profile:
    Level 1: Thunder Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(46), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
    Level 1: Dark Embrace -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(42), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(43), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
    Level 2: Storm Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42)
    Level 4: Death Shroud -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg(5), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(40), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(40), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(40)
    Level 6: Murky Cloud -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(7), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
    Level 8: Crane Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15)
    Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(11), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(11), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
    Level 12: Hover -- Zephyr-ResKB(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(13)
    Level 14: Fly -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
    Level 16: Dark Regeneration -- Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Heal(17), Theft-+End%(17), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
    Level 18: Crippling Axe Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37)
    Level 20: Cloak of Darkness -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(21)
    Level 22: Cobra Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36)
    Level 24: Focus Chi -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(25)
    Level 26: Dragon's Tail -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Erad-%Dam(27), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(34), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(34), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(36)
    Level 28: Cloak of Fear -- N'mare-Acc/Fear/Rchg(A), N'mare-Acc/EndRdx(29), N'mare-EndRdx/Fear(29), Abys-Acc/EndRdx(31)
    Level 30: Boxing -- Empty(A)
    Level 32: Eagles Claw -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Hectmb-Dmg(34)
    Level 35: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(36)
    Level 38: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(39)
    Level 41: Petrifying Gaze -- Empty(A)
    Level 44: Dark Blast -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(45), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Apoc-Dam%(46)
    Level 47: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
    Level 49: Combat Jumping -- SW-ResDam/Re TP(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
    Level 50: Cardiac Total Radial Revamp
    Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
    Level 0: Task Force Commander
    Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
    Level 0: Portal Jockey
    ------------
    Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
    Level 1: Critical Hit
    Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
    Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
    Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
    Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(50)
    Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
    Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(31)
    Level 4: Ninja Run



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  19. Desmodos
    Two things:

    1) Would be helpful to know what kind of budget you are working with? The better Dark Armor builds tend to be expensive.

    2) While IO set bonuses are the point of IO builds, they don't generally replace basic slotting. In other words, you need to slot attacks with damage. Everything still needs adequate accuracy, endurance reduction, recharge, resistance ect.
  20. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Werner View Post
    Yeah, in and of itself, the Gladiator's Armor keeps it from being called a budget build, though I'm going to guess that mine cost several times as much as yours, so there are definitely degrees of sticker shock.
    Well, I was away from the game during much of the inflation that's taken over the markets. Paying 2-3 Billion per Gladiator is out of my comfort range. I get mine via Alignment merits. Takes longer, but worth the time investment IMHO. I do understand for most players, the Gladiator's Armor will seem a tad out of reach.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Werner View Post
    I expected you to slot fear in Cloak of Fear instead of -to hit. I assume that was a compromise to get the defense bonus?
    Yes. You can either slot CoF with Siphon Insight for S/L defense or slot it with
    Nightmare for E/Ne defense. One of the additional benefits of Cardiac Alpha slotting is Cardiac Radial Paragon grants Damage Resistance, and Fear Duration. This makes up for some of the lost fear duration for Siphon Insight slotting.
  21. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Werner View Post
    I don't have a build to share as an example, unfortunately, and don't guarantee that the compromises will be reduced, but I suspect they will. It's at least worth poking at.
    I didn't post this build earlier for a few reasons, the main one being it would likely not be considered 'cheap' by the average player. Like most Dark Armor builds, I'm constantly tweaking. Honestly, I'd like to work Confront into the build.

    Things to note about this build:

    It falls just short of soft cap to S/L E/Ne in exchange for getting very near to soft cap to those main damage types. The build could be tweaked to obtain S/L soft cap at the expense of E/Ne but I'm not convinced that is the way to go.

    This build has Parry, but does not factor in Parry's buff for defense values. Parry is needed for a single attack in which to slot Kinetic Combat. I still consider Parry very valuable to the build as it can create a substantial buffer against mobs that dispense -defense.

    The endurance management of this build assumes possession of +end accolades and a Cardiac alpha slot.

    Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
    http://www.cohplanner.com/

    Click this DataLink to open the build!

    Desnocta Blades I19 A: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
    Primary Power Set: Broad Sword
    Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
    Power Pool: Leaping
    Power Pool: Fighting
    Power Pool: Speed
    Power Pool: Leadership
    Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

    Hero Profile:
    Level 1: Hack -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5)
    Level 1: Dark Embrace -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(7), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(9), GA-3defTpProc(11)
    Level 2: Slice -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Erad-%Dam(13), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(13), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
    Level 4: Death Shroud -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg(17), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(19), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(19), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(21)
    Level 6: Murky Cloud -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(21), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23), RctvArm-ResDam(23)
    Level 8: Parry -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27)
    Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(29), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(29), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
    Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Zephyr-ResKB(31)
    Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
    Level 16: Dark Regeneration -- Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Heal(31), Theft-+End%(33), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(33), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
    Level 18: Whirling Sword -- Erad-%Dam(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Erad-Dmg(34), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(36), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
    Level 20: Cloak of Darkness -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(37), HO:Enzym(37)
    Level 22: Build Up -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(37)
    Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
    Level 26: Disembowel -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40)
    Level 28: Cloak of Fear -- SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SipInsght-ToHitDeb(40), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(40), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(42), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Abys-Acc/EndRdx(42)
    Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(43), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(43), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
    Level 32: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(45)
    Level 35: Head Splitter -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg(45), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(46), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(46), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(46)
    Level 38: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
    Level 41: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(48)
    Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
    Level 47: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(48)
    Level 49: Laser Beam Eyes -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(50), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
    Level 50: Cardiac Boost
    Level 0: Task Force Commander
    Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
    Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
    Level 0: Portal Jockey
    ------------
    Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
    Level 1: Critical Hit
    Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
    Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
    Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
    Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(48)
    Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
    Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(50)
    Level 4: Ninja Run



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  22. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
    Sword/Dark is the only Dark Armor combo I would ever build for positional defense. For pretty much every other combo available, you will get more out of slotting for typed defense.
    My point was simply that the OP built for melee soft cap only. I've run into a few folks who seem to believe melee soft cap = S/L soft cap. Without obtaining soft cap to the other positions, soft cap S/L defense is superior to soft cap melee defense.

    Now I did design my BS/DA for soft to typed defense (S/L + E/Ne), before applying Parry, but as Werner pointed out, such builds are not cheap.
  23. Desmodos
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Werner View Post
    For comparison purposes, here's what I consider an excellent-for-the-budget positional soft-capped Katana/Dark build by Ramia Angriffe with a few modifications by Iggy Kamakaze. There are, of course, many ways to build, so I'm very much not saying, "do this". I just wanted to put it out there to look at so you know the kind of thing that ClawsandEffect and I have in mind when we're talking about soft capping, and can also see the kinds of compromises involved. There are fewer compromises at much higher price points, of course. But I assume you're not looking for a ten billion influence uber build.
    Good example of a build I don't like, wouldn't play, but I can understand the choices made here. While I would not make the compromises made in the build, I would agree the pay off is worth while.
  24. Desmodos
    Sorry, I don't like this build.

    I'll start by saying CoF is the better choice than OG on BS/DA build. This becomes even more so as you add on more defense buffs. BS attacks make it easier for CoF to hit. CoF hits make your defense more effective. But I'll leave this dead horse alone...for now.

    Lots of wasted slots here. Stamina and Physical Perfection are way over slotted for bonuses that do little for your build. Combat Jumping, Cloak of Darkness, Manuevers and Weave are all over slotted. I can see over slotting a power for set bonuses you can use, but while +HP and Regen are nice to have, you've got far too many other gaps in the this build to spend these slots as such. That's a lot of slots in build up....

    The endurance management on this build seems REALLY low to me. Even with a Cardiac Boost, you'll be at 3.46 Recovery - 2.02 end drain = 1.44 net EPS. That would be rather intolerable for me. I generally shoot for a minimum net EPS of 2.0.

    I LOVE broadsword....but it is slow. You need lots more recharge than I see here.

    Werner and Claw and Effect already explained the defense concerns. Actually, I think they are understating things. Against mobs with ranged energy attacks, this build would take a pounding.

    I'm all for designing builds differently. IOs and now Alpha Slots give you a lot of options, but this build seems to make a lot of sacrifices with out any improvements over basic BS/DA build designs.

    I don't even build for positional defense, but that would be preferable to what you have here. Building for S/L soft cap is not the same as Melee softcap. If you're gonna build for positions defense, which I don't recommend for Dark Armor, you need to get all three. On the other hand, building for S/L soft cap grants a great deal of overlap coverage.
  25. Desmodos

    Tin Mage.

    POST-ACTION

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ir0x0r View Post
    I ran it with Des yesterday and we got him the badge, woot!

    Different way then I did it originally. Once we went in, everyone except for Des stayed at the door. He clicked a few glowies to spawn some ambushes. We killed them as they spawned. We then moved to the AV spawn spot, pulled out shivans, bio nukes, spawned AV and took him out quickly. It went pretty quick and smooth once the AV spawned.
    Couple of things learned that run. That method isn't guaranteed. When Director 11 went down, I was convinced the attempt had failed. Some mines had gone off. I tried to move away but thought I got hit. Either he dropped as I got hit, or I got REALLY lucky. Basically we were about 3-5 seconds too slow in taking him down. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the badge award in my window.

    Thank you to all that participated and tolerated my instructions.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VoodooCompany View Post
    Sure, it can work that way........if you don't have some random/stray/I'mprettysurenoonewasactuallyhitbutwearen'tgoingto giveyoubadgecredit bs going on. Mines can be set in and around that door as well.

    There is some kind of delay before the invisomobs show up and run amok with tripmines. Massive debuffs and instadamage will net you the badge everytime if you're on him immediately.

    It's a really horribly designed encounter.
    I have mixed feelings about the Director 11 encounter. Obtaining the badge is rather annoying unless you have specific ATs/Powersets/Buffs in place. At the same time, I've never been on a Tin Mage that failed. Sure, we didn't get the badge, but we eventually took Director 11 down. We completed the TF, got merits and shards, usually in under an hour.

    While I REALLY wanted the badge on Desmodas Siazar, it's still just a badge. I'm willing to help other get it, either by this method or others, but I'm not going out of my way to get the badge on my other characters. It's not even part of an accolade power.

    I'm not sure it's really fair to say the encounter is badly designed.