Defense_Options

I get wanting to reduce the depence on burn many fire/ tanks have. I have always felt weird not taking any attacks until level 30 and still soloing at a good clip. However the need to take cj-sj-acrobatics for full status protection does leave one a little light on power choices.

Also while not directly about burn why drop FE also. If you want fire tanks not to use burn as a weapon why take their other attack powers away? Seems like getting hit from both sides to me.

Ok its hard to give any solid advice now because of the flux in power that Inv is currently in but I would make a few changes to your build anyway.

Unyielding only at most needs one endrdx. Then once you get stamina slotted I would drop even that but that depends on what the value it will end with. If as positron suggests its 20 then six slot it with all damresist.

Even now I would suggest slotting Invincibility before Resist Elements. If the values on test go live I might even question taking Resist elements but I would certainly slot it very late in my build. After Invinicibility to be sure.

At level 22 O would take Knockout Blow. It is a great attack and will really help you out.

Fly hits its speed cap at 4 true but its so close at 3 the difference may not be worth a slot. More then that 2 endrdx slots in it are unneeded unless you plan on fighting while flying and then I would suggest getting hover and 6 slotting that for speed.

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His Buffer Overrun idea is pure gold (all rad SG).


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I'm in an all Rad SG, The Manhatten Project, on guardian. We had four full time members and were doing the striga stuff but have since pretty much cooled it. One member is on extended Military duty and the others have moved on. Still all Rad is amazing.

Oh and I am totally out of touch with current comics. I used to love Marvel and DC. I have hundreds of old Avengers, Thor, Iron-Man, and Captain America. I also have a very nice collection of Superman of course. I have a still in its cover copy of his death and another of his return. I haven't read all that much recently though.

Assuming he means Unyielding will have a base resist of 20 now then you can hit the upper 50s low 60s to all damage types except psi and that really will make Havok's build still viable.

But he could also mean that 6 slotted it will now reach 20 in which case you can hit the mid 30s and that's not really enough but we have to wait and see if he will spell it out better.

Not to speak out of place and all but I do believe its the changes coming in I5 that has Havok going. From what he has posted on the tanker boards he simply doesn't want to play EQ in tights, or a tank that is so weak he can't handle stuff without tons of back up.

Havok has been around a long time and added a ton to the game. I personally have disagreed with him and agreed with him and he's always been a pretty classy guy. His leaving will dimish the game as anyone's leaving does but he has a special place that will not be filled.

I hope someone comes along and keeps updating this fine theme build if no one does I will try though I'm not half the tank many others are. My own Inv/SS tank has been a joy to play and for as long as I'm playing this game I will try and keep up on what makes them work best.

Recent Regen Test Results

You say they had other tests but didn't post them. Ok fine. But why did they post the one using a primary that would most skew the results if not to make any arguement by regen look worse? It did seem they posted results that only benifited the arguement to nerf regen. As for whether or not the community was heard on this I can take your word for that BUT real proof isn't in saying something after the fact its in reacting before it.

Official Threads, Posting, and You

Here's a problem the moderators seem to have with offical threads. You say post after testing. Fine. But you lock all other threads regarding the issue. So those who wish to discuss what is happening and how as a community it will affect us have no place to post. In locking all these threads it creates a very adversarial relationship between devs and the community. It also makes it feel like we are being herded to be ignored. Whether true or not the fact that feeling is created does not change. As it does come off very heavy handed.

As for comments about hating the changes well you are going to get those. Some people don't like change. Its a fact. That you have to not take personally.

Now as for how you edit the threads it also seems very ... well its not always done well. Often someone comes to start throwing fire and others respond and offer support for their points. The flame thrower continues and so on and so forth. Well eventually it gets cut from the thread. Often taking many good posts with it. A little more care with that would be helpful, but I do understand that the best way to avoid that is to respond to red names only.

Speaking on responses that get removed. Why do responces like:

Come on you know it's overpowered. I mean I retired my regener because of how great he is.

Not get pulled.

This kind of response did not come from testing it is a simple flame yet the regen thread was filled with them. Here's another issue since you mentioned it.

Regen was told it was "unparalleled" the devs word not ours. At that point it becomes extremely valid to point out that regen is not. And in doing so bring other ATs and powerset up that we feel can do the same things we are accused of doing. It is not "nerf-herding" to do so. It is trying to show the error in the "unparalleled" statement. Fair is fair when accused of being more powerful then others it is fair to point out that others are able to do what you can and in some cases better.

Anyway. All this is words. And nice as they are actions speak louder. The only action we saw was a release without response to question before hand. That does weigh a lot in my thoughts about this. I hope both sides can learn, and yes we seem to me to be on oppisite sides on this, from this and improve. Thanks for your efforts.

I have seen and posted on broadcast this though.

Team needs damage dealer.

I'm a scrapper mostly but when fighting an AV or just trying to balance out a team it helps to have every AT. Blasters are a real benifit to a team if they are good players.

Actually love these ideas.

What percent are you looking at?

Remember since its a starting power you can't be over shadowing the tank even at low level defense wise. But I'd think a solid 12.5 % would be in line. I would suggest against toggles since you have no mezz protection.

12.5 is actually a very solid amount scrappers can not get this much from even inv to start with they get like 10 % but since you never get anymore a temp lead isn't too much really. It won't last long but it could really help.

By the way I have no poblem raising the blaster damage cap to the same point as scrapper and even flip flopping the caps assuming crits are allowed to surpase it. BUT Blaster must not be able to reach the new cap without help. That means they can not buff themselves by only using built in power buffs from their primary or secondary. It should require outside help. Red pills, defender/controller buffs you get my meaning.

One thing I keep seeing is how powerful scrapper AoEs are. Its really not true. Only spines has decent AoEs and even then its only at the top levels and as good as his are they don't match most of your level 32 nukes. His recharges faster but does it really do damage equal to Nova or Auto? It's not his damage you need it more solid defense. And he's not coming anywhere near his or even your damage cap when he's doing this. Try broadsword or katana their AoEs are ok but not even in the same league as your worst. My pal plays Ene/Ene and I have a BS/Regen my AoEs are used to grab the opening agro so he can Nova them. The damage compaison is well just not even close. Yes a boss might survive but then again if I did my part I whirled on the boss so likely he's dead. He also has another AoE (I don't know the name) that is pretty nice at knock everything off me and doing some great damage along the way. Knockback is a real great thing for a blaster and it why I think my next blaster will be Ene/Ene. I like it to keep things away. But its not enough to keep a blaster alive. That I have seen first hand and I want my blaster pals to be more solid that way.

Another thing to think about before asking for too many defensive power. A regen scrapper built by the cookie cutter uses 40 slots for defense. 40. That leaves only 27 total slots for travel powers, attacks, and fun stuff. That alone reduces significately the damage of the scrapper compaired to the blaster. And it is something that has not yet been mentioned. Again blasters need something and from what I've seen a little resist could help, and I'd have no problem with the damage change I mentioned earlier try both see what happens. If its too much we can alway tone it down, if its not enough we can always add. I think what needs to happen is something needs to be tried. For good or bad there needs to be a change then testing and evaluation to see what we have done. Blaster need help how and how much needs to be tested.

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I would say add mez protection to Conserve Power.

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Great Idea

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That is perfect. It's not perma-able but it can be made to refresh pretty fast. Now we just need to find powers in the other secondaries that fit the bill.

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Why are you using them as a baseline? Ther're the two sets most unlike the others, they alone have higher HP and self defences and status protection (minus Force field people). They and post 32 controllers are considered the most broken of the ATs.


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Defenders have the same hits as scrappers.

This means that if you are underpowered then you need to be buffed to fit in with them. Or do you think blasters are at the right power level and you have no interest in seeing blasters get improved? I for one think improving blasters would be a great thing and far easier then dropping the power level of everyone else.

I have seen this a number of places that defenders need a buff. Please don't say that too quickly. I and a friend play a pair of Rad/Rad defenders and we certainly are fine as it. Yes we get mezzed but so what? We do just fine. Together just the two of us in an hour long war of attrition took down the new AV in Striga (can remember his name Maestro or something.) All defenders don't need a buff. Plus this is the blaster page lets keep to what they need.

Ok not to do this but I did watch and have pictures of a crazy blaster herding monkeys on monkey isle. Best part was a tank was also and when they ran together the carniage was just plain fun. (The blaster did pop purples but the sight of a blaster herding was just ... well funny.)

There is no doubt in my mind blasters need help. I spent my entire 50 scrapper levels with a blaster or two and they need real help right from 30 on. I needed help in the 40s but he simply seemed to loose hope then. It wasn't fair and it wasn't right. He should have been able to find a way to do well but all the stun and mezz was just overpowering for him. I even carried extra disiplines for him but it was never enough. He does love TF and uses it to stun bosses into oblivion and that's how he kills them but it takes a ton more work for him to level then it did for me. Not fair, not fair at all. His first level may have been easier but to end so poorly is just ... I am glad he made 50 is all. He earned every last level.

Ok early game blasters are good is that something that most people agree with?

If so then its becauseof two things from what some have said.

Tanks/Scrapper/Defenders have two lines that they are slotting so they can both defend themselves/others and do damage where as the blaster is only concerned with damage in the early game. Basically the blaster has twice the slots for attacks as the rest because he's an all attack guy/girl early on at least.

Mezz takes balsters apart in the 20s and up.



My idea for the first is give blasters the same damage cap as scrappers BUT reduce their big nukes in damage and side effect. I say that last line since I read in another thread that the nukes are why they will not raise the damage cap. Lower the nuke power and side effect (side effects I am to say what happens to the blaster when he uses them, Nova reducing end to 0 and such) and then you can feel better about raising the damage cap.

Give blasters some defense against mezz even if its half the strength of tanker/scrapper it would still be enough to resist the first few mezzes.

I would like to see some defense additions to blasters too but try those and if it works great if not lets add some defenses. Just a thought you have to try something first.

Can I ask why are blasters solid up to say level 20?

What makes their damage good till then but fall apart later?

The cap is in play then as it is later, so it can't be that can it? Or is it that you don't really keep getting better attacks while the scrapper does?

I don't know for real but could better later attacks be the problem. Hack is much weaker then headsplitter. But you get snipe one of your best damage attacks very early. Maybe what's needed besides mezz defense is better late attacks.

I don't know just asking.

SOs do and HOs take that to an extreme.

Wont my slotting of TH help deal with your mistake on Invinc? Honesty I have no intention of taking my Supes into the arena so its no bother to me he wouldn't be any good there.

Ok Havok since this thread seems to be the Superman build thread and you know what I love the guy so I posted a thread with mine in which I got some help and have refined my build.

First A couple things.

1. I have a prefly build because there was a time before supes could fly and well I'm nuts.

2. Group fly is a must because I want to fly away with my girl. (How many times has supes flown off with LL?)

So other then that here it is.

Pre-Fly

01 : Jab acc(01)
01 : Temp Invulnerability damres(01) damres(3)
02 : Punch acc(02) dam(3) dam(5) dam(5) dam(7) dam(7)
04 : Taunt tntdur(04)
06 : Swift runspd(06)
08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(9) damres(9) damres(11) damres(11) damres(13)
10 : Haymaker acc(10) dam(13) dam(19)
12 : Hasten recred(12) recred(15) recred(15) recred(17) recred(17) recred(19)
14 : Super Speed runspd(14)
16 : Health hel(16)
18 : Invincibility endred(18)
20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21) endrec(21) endrec(23) endrec(23)
22 : Combat Jumping defbuf(22)
24 : Super Jump jmp(24)

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01 : Brawl Empty(01)
01 : Sprint Empty(01)
02 : Rest Empty(02)

Post Fly

01 : Jab dam(01)
01 : Temp Invulnerability damres(01) damres(3)
02 : Punch dam(02) dam(5) dam(5) dam(33) dam(37) dam(3)
04 : Taunt tntdur(04)
06 : Hover fltspd(06) fltspd(7) fltspd(7) fltspd(15) fltspd(17) fltspd(17)
08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(9) damres(9) damres(11) damres(11) damres(13)
10 : Haymaker dam(10) dam(13) dam(15) dam(33) dam(37) dam(40)
12 : Swift runspd(12)
14 : Fly fltspd(14) fltspd(43) fltspd(19) fltspd(19)
16 : Health hel(16)
18 : Invincibility thtbuf(18) defbuf(45) defbuf(45)
20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21) endrec(21) endrec(23) endrec(23) endrec(25)
22 : Hasten recred(22) recred(25) recred(27) recred(27) recred(29) recred(29)
24 : Super Speed runspd(24)
26 : Resist Elements damres(26) damres(34) damres(34) damres(34) damres(46)
28 : Knockout Blow dam(28) dam(31) dam(31) dam(31) dam(33) dam(37)
30 : Rage recred(30)
32 : Unstoppable recred(32)
35 : Resist Energies damres(35) damres(36) damres(36) damres(36) damres(46)
38 : Foot Stomp dam(38) dam(39) dam(39) dam(39) dam(40) dam(40)
41 : Conserve Power recred(41) recred(42) recred(42) recred(42) recred(43) recred(43)
44 : Laser Beam Eyes dam(44) dam(45) dam(46) dam(50) dam(50)
47 : Tough Hide defbuf(47) defbuf(48) defbuf(48) defbuf(48)
49 : Group Fly endred(49) fltspd(50)

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01 : Brawl acc(01)
01 : Sprint runspd(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)

Like I said I'm nuts.

Thanks. Yup that works better. Sorry thought you had level specific and if you didn't fall in a 5 level range you had to move on. Thanks for clearing that up for the blind man here.

Well I'm not a huge fan of level approprate trainers.

1. At high level you still get missions in lower level zones and now have to haul tail out of a zone and make your team wait while you train in "your" zone.

2. During a TF you generally level at least once and maybe twice. That means a ton of down time as players shoot off to "their" zones to train between missions when now you can usually just stop by a nearby train on route to the next mission. TFs are long enough already lets avoid adding to that.

3. When I hit level 50 I wanted to come back were it all started for me that was Atlas. I came back to be trained by the Lady herself because she had trained me to 2 and well it just seemed so right she be the one to take me to 50.

As for multiple levels I guess I can live with that though at low level 1-12 I generally don't bother training at my odd levels since I usually can't afford enahncements or if I can I'm saving up for DOs. But I can see not allowing you to build up more then say 2. That would be fine.

Ok after reading this massive thread that grows with each day I still have yet to have this answered for me.

Here is my situation.

For the sake of my story I'm a scrapper and sk'd to me is a tanker. The rest of my team is blasters and other squishies as they are called. We are fighting the Psi Clock King and see him in the distance. My tanker sk is inv and so has no defense against the opening killer stike from CK so I do the mentor thing and move in to taunt him so the blast hits me, I pop purple shields and pray. It hits and kills me, one shot. My tanker sk charges as does the squishies with. If I hospital they all die. If I stay I get nothing XP wise becuase AV fights can last easily more then one minute.

Now you say I should get nothing for no risk right. Well I died so I'd say that was risk enough.

You say you don't want any PLing, well I'm the high level one not the sk and even so its not pling if everyone kicks in.

How can you defend me getting nothing for this? I am staying to help the team. If I hosptial the tank dies. If he dies the rest are in grave danger. So I stay and get rooked. Help me understand how this stops pling in anyway?

States I still have a bit of a problem with the timer issue.

It still encourages a mentor to hospital during a fight thus killing his SK. Shouldn't he be encourage the other way? If the mentor dies and doesn't hospital he may not get any XP from what is likely the best XP on the mission. Its the noble thing to say dead and there so your SK has a fighting chance but your timer will punish him for it. That just needs to be looked at please. I don't hate your plan, nor do I think its going to do anything to Pling but the timer is going to hurt only people not PLing. Because a PLer doesn't get into fights that take a minute each and if someone died he'd just wait for him to hospital and return before continueing on. Further most pling that happens is on mission maps so the while distance thing is really moot based on your altered fix of letting all people on a mission map get the XP. I understand your desire but I think this arrow will miss the mark and hit the people playing the game not those pling it.

Real Name: John King
Hero Name : King Creole
Job: Elvis Impersonator
Powers: Stone/Stone (or I like to think of him as a Rocker)

Origin:
John was touring with his best bud Dog. Now Dog, Hound Dog is his stage name, is a mutant and a fire tanker. They have known each other for years and for a long time have been touring together.

Dog fought crime when he could and if he had to miss a show John just filled in, its what buds are for. Now John has in the past had a serious problem with drugs but good ol' Dog has helped him stay on the straight and narrow for years now. John's other big addiction is PB&J sandwhiches. He eats at least two before every show.

One day Dog calls John and tells him he will need to cover for him because DE are causing problems and he is needed. John's tired been doing doubles shows all week but his bud is saving lives so he tells him he's got his back.

DE operatives know about Hound Dog's work but not about John so they set a plan in motion to poison Dog and thus take him out of the picture. They find the jars of peanut butter and pour in chemically treated rocks meant to react with Dog's mutant biology and kill him. What they had no way of knowing was the effect they would have on a normal human. John makes his sandwhiches and puts on another great show, ask him he'll tell you it was great.

After he is exausted and heads back to the dressing room where he colapses. Three days later John wakes in Atlas General.

Now not only did those rocks not kill John they actually gave him powers over rock. He can create rock all over making armor and weapons. The problem is that he no longer remembers who he is. He really thinks he's the King of Rock. Dog has helped him but he just can't get John to remeber who he is.

King Creole and Hound Dog now fight crime together.