DarkMaster

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I honestly could give to ****s about whether or not EA is balanced with or without IOs in mind. My brute runs with IOs. Those IOs are now going to be better (capped smashing defense is gonna become capped smashing/lethal defense - score). My brute is happy. You all and your 'sets shouldn't be balanced by blah blah blah' hooplah can go pee in someone else's Cheerios.

Who the hell doesn't run with IOs anyway? Is there some CoX equivilant of the Amish running around?

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Actually, MOST of my toons do not have IO's of any kind. Only a couple of my most faves do. Most of my SG mates and in-game pals are the same way. No need to down millions upon billions of infamy on every toon. So what do you want? A friggen cookie? You just made yourself look like an [censored], congrats

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Frost, of late, I've agreed with some of your posts, but this is not amongst them.

I've played brutes with every one of these sets in I6 and I7 except SR. (I played an SR scrapper, as SR brutes didnt exist)

Accro is not that large an end drain. Dark regeneration? potentially yes. Accro? no.

-def for SR might once have made some sense, but in recent times, SR is so utterly immune to -defence that it's not even worth talking about.

Both EA and shields can be extrordinarily powerful with enough IO sets. [edit: maybe stronger than they should be] They're both weaker than average without them. That's the way it is.

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Agreed on all.

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And once these buffs go thru, heh, my softcap to 6 types of defense combined with a 30 second heal/end filler, and unsupressed stealth? Yeah you can keep your SR.

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Your heal is "lulz" at best. Especially solo. It's quadruple "lulz" in pvp. Have fun.


Glycerine:
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This IO change was the key. As long as the change sticks, I'll be so happy to play my Brute once again.

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And, NO set should ever be balanced around IO's. This should never be the intent as, according to the dev's, IO's are completely [u]optional[u]. So if this is the case, there is definately something wrong with EA still, and you just pointed that out.

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Nice guide M3z. I have done jump-canceling but never all the time. I didn't know that it could be repeated based on a clearly defined method. Now to practice!

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Nice guide m3z, but I am honestly astonished at how many people actually "didn't" know about jump canceling, or at least know the benefits of it....no wonder there are so many people that blow at pvp and then don't give it a second thought.....

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Castle, can you go into more detail on the cage suppresion nerf, thanks.

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It operates exactly the same as Hold suppression. Initial Cage will take full effect. Any additional cages will not take effect until the "suppression" period ends.

EDIT:
FWIW, we reverted out the "Not affect players" change to TK, and changed Break Frees to 50% Repel Resist, and 100% resist for Medium and Large inspires.

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Awesome awesome AWESOME! Perfect change Castle! Thanks so much for listening! I'm honestly quite impressed, kudos


Now, back to the acrobatics thread lol, don't listen to all the whiners btw

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you know they are just doing this cause heroes cry too much first they let blasters attack while mezed now they want to let heroes pop bf's and come get a mind dom tk was what they used to keep em away to kill this is lame i dont even play a mind dom and i think this unfair
smh why do devs favor heroes so much?

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???

You realize that there are mind CONTROLLERS in existence right?

Also I agree with the general atmosphere: GG Castle.

Looks like not being the ONLY powers guy for 3 issues anymore is freeing up some of his time.

Thank GOD!

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Overall I'm VERY pleased that TK's issues are being addressed. It's been overpowered and out of balance for WAY too long.


I'd suggest that "2" BF's are required to "break" TK's repel though. Just don't remove TK's repel in pvp altogether, that really wouldn't be right.

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I'd say 2

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I am EXTREMELY pleased with this new system now, and more pleased at the fact that people who are currently playing CoX get the perks of having a couple "free" slots. That's just awesome, and something that I was REALLY hoping we'd see someday. Kudos on that!

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“I would like to see a red name explain why heros get cold and therm and villains get double storm.” – jeffg316

Originally, Castle only wanted to allow 9 powersets to be shifted around, while others wanted to open things up much more completely. After much debate, and back and forth discussion, we came to a compromise on which sets were proliferated and which would be delayed to future updates. The sets that were chosen, ultimately, were easy to port across, and tried to fill thematic holes where appropriate. “Balance” was mainly a factor in which sets NOT to port immediately – things like Kinetics for Masterminds would be extremely dangerous to port directly; many changes would need to be done to make that one work. The same can be said with moving Illusions to Masterminds as a Primary powerset.


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You may state this but if you look at it from a player’s perspective, no matter how you word it Villains are getting the shaft. Now I do not even think I speak for most of us forum goers, but when you see the same response from many posters you get the gist of the issue thrown in your face, the number one reason I think a lot of us who play mostly redside are not happy with this issue other then VEATS, which we have been due since CoV launch much like the Cathedral of Pain, is that the sets that people wanted at the top of most peoples lists did not even begin to make the redside list at all.

Sure as you stated it is easy to port storm, but you know what? It is not easy to port /Cold to Defenders, heck its not even easy to port Plant to Controllers since Plant was designed from the ground up to be a dom set and as such is balanced as a Dom set in that’s its controls take into account the target cap on a dom vs a troller and the lowered duration of dom controls. Psi for blasters is not an easy port either, as Psi damage is ridiculously under or overly resisted throughout the whole game. It looks so lopsided in the fact that you are willing to watch some sets and not others and I quote “the developers will be keeping a VERY close eye on this powerset to make sure that it is not overpowered in the hands of Blasters” ( gamezone.com article on Psi Blast for blasters ). Why is it that this powerset can be so closely watched yet you can’t do the same exact thing for /kin on MM’s or Illusion on doms ( I am willing and hoping that Illusion for MM’s as quoted is a typo, Illusion is a control set, please do not even consider it as a pet set! ) heck even /sonic would be an improvement over /storm twice, and /sonic as is can be a direct port to MM’s with little to no modification the same as /FF. I hate jumping on the “Devs want heroes to always win” bandwagon, but it becomes much easier to join that crowd when I can’t even come up with one thing that Villains get in I12 that will be worth it on any level ( As stated above VEATS are not part of this list, every time you ding 50 on a villain you get the message that you unlocked Epics, thus in my eyes this is so long overdue and should have been there since launch of CoV ).

So I am sorry but I do not buy the X or Y set that Villains really want would have been too dangerous or too hard to modify when you are more then willing to do all the careful watching and modifying of the same possible issues for sets being ported to heroes. It is a copout, nothing more nothing less. All I, and probably many like me, want is equal willingness to devote the same effort to what is being added to heroes to villains as well. I won’t demand empathy for villains even if I think it makes just as much sense on a villain as on a hero, since as was stated by BaBs that as a collective group you view it as un-thematic for villains, however I do feel it is within my right to request you rethink just what you are doing with passing sets both ways. Perceived imbalances by your player base need addressing just as much as actual data traceable imbalances if you do not want to alienate more and more of your player base.

-Sanjiyan

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All to true.

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Can we look forward to superstrength for scrappers in the future? The lack of a non-weapon punching set for scrappers has been a big hole for four years. There was talk about a street fighting set, but when Castle talked about upcoming powersets a few weeks back, street fighting wasn't even mentioned.

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Dark Melee and teh powur poolz.


Done. Next.

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Tried it. Incredibly subpar. The Power Pool attacks are pretty weak, and dark melee has remarkably few punching powers, given its name.

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Shadow Punch, Smite, Shadow Maul, even MidG is sorta like a punch, but more like a face palm lol. Add in Boxing or Air Sup and you have a FULL and competant attack chain....why do you need "moar" punches after that? It only breaks DM's sweet sweet flow.

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Can we look forward to superstrength for scrappers in the future? The lack of a non-weapon punching set for scrappers has been a big hole for four years. There was talk about a street fighting set, but when Castle talked about upcoming powersets a few weeks back, street fighting wasn't even mentioned.

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Dark Melee and teh powur poolz.


Done. Next.

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They're practically screaming hints that Kinetics Masterminds are in the plan. They've just got to figure out a way to [u]nerf[u] them out. Patience please.

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Fix't.

MM's are villains not heroes.

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Soooo when will the new primary be revealed since it's kinda obvious you won't be doing a direct port of defender psy blast with Subdual and Psy Scream in the secondary?

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Like I said before, PsiBlast WILL have Aim lolz. I knew it all along

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“WHY NO EMP FOR CORR?” – ELF_STALKER



Empathy isn’t a villainous trait, generally speaking. From a fiction standpoint, it will likely never be given to Villains as a set.

Back to thematics – Empathy isn’t really a villainous trait. From a fiction standpoint, it wasn’t our first choice to port over and the reason corruptors didn’t receive it in the first place as part of the release of City of Villains. If we were to add an “Empathy Like” set, it would need to be all new and not a port of it, to make it fit into the Villainous theme. As such, that fell out of the scope of Issue 12’s powerset proliferation and is why it wasn’t included.

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Defenders have dark, not very hero like.

Scrappers have dark melee, not very hero like.

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That is consistently and intentionally overlooked. They just don't want to give empathy to villains.

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Also, "arresting" people by burning them, shooting them to death, and SHOOTING RADIATION DIRECTLY INTO THE CROTCH (X-Ray Beam) doesn't really seem all that heroic. Hilarious, but not heroic.

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Agreed.

And: lol villains yo

Drain Psyche...wow.


Scare...double wow.


Omgwthdunnoboutit factor...wow.


Poor poor villains...

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... wait. These things give a buff to you AND YOUR TEAM?

So what happens if a team of 8 people get together, all running their buffing pets?

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LFT, 48 Vets only!

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Cry doom much?


There really isn't going to be enough 48 month "vets" in this game to have that happen on a "realistic" and "common" level. I mean honestly...think about it. Something like that just won't happen any time soon, if ever.


Quit worrying. Teams of "8" 48 month veterans will be few and far between as well, I'm sure. It's not like everyone you see running around in this game is a vet. Hell, not even close. I'd say on average most seem to be around the 12-24 month marks at best and may never see even 36 months.


This is an awesome reward though for those of us who will attain it within the next few months.

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A player can do most of the damage to another player and still get no reward if an off team player kill steals him. Award partial credit for Bounty based on damage, as is done for XP when 2 different unteamed players defeat a mob on the street.

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The bounty store in Sirens should be updated to include post-i9 rewards including recipes and salvage. If possible, allow people to choose between inspiration and enhancements if they enough bounty for either. Priority Issue

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People often want to 1v1 in the zones but have no way of doing so without getting interrupted. Add arena terminals to hero and villain bases.


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When more than one team of heroes or villains is in the zone, they have no way to communicate and plan an assault without the opposing side hearing. Make request faction side only.


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Those four, for zones, are HUGE deals and definately need looked into. I like these fix ideas, great work on summing all of what we've been asking for over the past couple years. Hopefully rednames take heed...


Oh, and...

so so /signed x100

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lolerz.... hold on a second.

Your trying to make fun of Justice PvP yet you have the title "Freedom Zone PvP" in your sig?

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I'm not trying...I'm doing it. And freedom zone PvP is like the NBA, where justice is high school basketball. And yes, I have toons on justice, so I know from personal experience.

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i have toons on freedom, its like justice but with less wait finding people to fight. if the devs gave out free server transfers i'd probably move over though honestly, simply to get more decent matches in.

its funny how people put down other servers like its not the same game. hopefully the new owners come up with a way to do live cross server pvp before the game dies [u]more[u].

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Fix'd

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As pretty much everyone knows, despite my best efforts to prevent this power from stacking from multiple users, it can still be stacked.

At some point in the future, I *will* get code support to eliminate the problem. In the meantime, if people are abusing this loophole (it's an exploit but not an "Exploit" -- GM's and petitions won't do anything about it at this time) I suggest that you blacklist their team and simply do not engage them in PvP.

For the PvE folks reading this, no, Vengeance is not meant to stack in PvE, either and the change, when it happens, will apply in those encounters as well.

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Good. And it's about time.

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PVP isn't optional for COX's long term survival. The PVE is stale and most people in the anti pvp crowd turn to badge hunting just to keep themselves entertained. Most of the people I talked to had servers that went through a shock when the zone bugs effectively shut down pvp on most servers from november to february. Most people stopped logging in and serveral people quit, who are only now coming back. Since COX is a game of many alts, these people turned out to be a lot of toons people had known in other venues.

On one of the first four pages on this thread someone brought up that SWG had been pvp centric as it's end game and had then switched to pve for a bit. They incorrectly assumed that's what hurt that game. By contrast, in 2003, SWG had the biggest openning of any MMORPG which it lost by being eclipsed by WOW. It's numbers dropped overnight and half it's servers closed by becoming a grind game with Jedi and the CU. It numbers were harmed even worse by becoming even more PVE centric NGE. SWG had to suck up that PVP paid the bills to begin regrowing now.

While approaching 9 million paying subscribers, which is more than the Nelson rating of most tv shows, WOW has servers that are labeled PVE and Roleplaying, which have pvp zones and have pvp hot options. Eve Online, MXO, Guildwars, COX, Vanguard, and every other game have the pvp components. Warhammer, Age of Conan, Gods & Heroes: Rome Rising, Star Trek Online, Marvel, DC, Firefly Online, and World of Darkness Online, are being pre built with PVP in mind and that's every major game being released from 2007-2009.

PVP pays the bills. PVE does not.

That's not me saying that. That's the entire video game industry saying that. They are saying that now. They are saying that through 2010 and quite possibly beyond.

In fact, PVE does the opposite of pay the bills. PVE only develops a core of players that burn through 3 month of development in a weekend. Does that make them happy? Not at all, they go on to cry on whatever forum board that another 3 months of development can't be done instantly to stop their boredom.

As much as the anti pvp crowd might stalk these forums and scream endlessly in the throws of obsessive compulsive disorder that they don't like pvp in this game. This game will have to have it and balance it to survive.

If the developers of this game ever get silly enough to listen to the screams of the anti pvp crowd, this game will have its life support plug pulled much sooner. Right now, without the balance issues being fixed, this game is expected to only edge out a suvivable profit by the time Marvel and DC come out. Paradoxically, NCSoft is developing Marvel and I'll bet real money it's being required to be absolutely balanced from the beginning.

PVP creates long time rivalries. PVP creates player driven content. PVP communities are the group that stay with a game for years in the highest numbers.

You might believe in your heart pvp doesn't pay the bills. But all the industrial side market research for the past two years says that you are saying the world is flat.

Here is your proof from just one major developer, watch all 7:26 minutes: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZOTRjWGxmjI

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Agreed. All.


It's what MANY of us have been preachin to the dev's and the general player base for years and years.


All of my pals that were 100% pve have LONG since moved on from this game, as the pve content go boring, naturally. You can only experience the 1 to 50 game so many times before you realize that it's nothing more than a photo copy of what you did the last time...


Now, my pals that were more pvp centric, are still around and hoping for new pvp content and fixes. Even those that have left still check back in from time to time to see if pvp has been given any love.....I think that says something.

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Well Sing can make this claim. He was by far the best pvper of the best pvp sg over the past few months in Lions Den. Other sg's would gameplan around him. Founder of the Hell Raisers didnt LD fight you and how did that go for you guys.

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Hell Raisers is and still has been, the only SG to ever beat Tribute in a planned/balanced match back when Tribute was "king of the hill" in pvp. This was at thier "peak" in pvp, so it was no small feat. We did it down 2 members with 2 half decent "ringers" as well. We were also one of the first SG's to begin the Blaster+Empathy combos back when arena first hit test. Think it was ol' Johnny boy? Nope, but close, as they formed the combo shortly after and did what they could to lay claim to it. Tribute was a great bunch of players at the time though, so don't get me wrong. When The Death Dealers broke apart, we accepted many of thier members, such as Labrynth, into our SG and really did become quite strong for a period of time. It has been a long time since HR has been "pvp fit" or even mostly together though.


As to where HR is today....most of the best have left to....ugh....WoW I still carry the sig in remembrance to be honest..

Wow, are you selling something? lol


Btw..


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At the time of this writing, I have spent literal years playing this game, and feel I have a more extensive view and grasp of CoX PvP than anyone to every play it. I was there on Test when it first released. I was there at the unveiling of I4, and participated in one of the first 50 arena matches.

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I don't know about that. Myself, as well as many other "vets" still kick'n around this game were in anticipation of "pvp" and the "arena" long before it even hit Test. I specifically built and leveled to 50 an Ice/Energy Blaster on the "thought" (because before arena even hit test, it was all simply guesswork) that it had good synergy for "pure" damage. My other "fallback" to pairing Ice with Energy was that if I couldn't get into melee and survive against Scrappers and Tankers, that boost range would help me keep them at arms length.


I helped several SG mates build "pre-prep'd" toons as well. We built the now infamous "Rad/Psi Defender" during this period too. Going off the hopes that the "psi" damage would be least resisted among players, and that Rad could heal and increase Psi damage through EF, since it didn't have a Build Up. Boy were we right there lol I'm not going to stake claim to being the SG or person that made Rad/Psi the fame it is today (that most likely goes to peritus) but I will say that we did have one of the first few to venture arena pvp with.


Some toons we pre-built flopped, others soared, and some where short lived gods who were smacked by nerfs. I'm not going to claim that we were the "only" SG to "prep" for pvp or make assumptions as to what builds/AT's would rock the roost, I'm just pointing out that some people had been planning for pvp long before it even hit test.


Personally, from "day 1" of me purchasing this game, I built for pvp. A Dm/Regen Scrapper was my first toon to 50. I figured I could use "Soul Drain" to get a huge damage buff from other players surrounding me (lol) and if I got overwhelmed, I could fear them with ToF and make them run away (back then, ToF caused a "panic" type fear which made Npc's flee). I thought Regen would be nice because I always had a heal without needing inspirations. I felt it'd be safer that way because inspires could run out lol. In the end, not the best pvp toon, but I did think of it on those terms, even back in Issue1


Officially, as an SG, we started pre-prepping members with pvp toons in I2, and had a huge influx of prep-ready and anxious teammates in I3. Again, I'm sure we weren't the only ones doing that either.


Just don't make such a "tall" claim as having the most knowledge over all pvp'ers in this game lol. I've studied the pvp in this game with the best of them as well, as has many others I'm sure. Anyways, great effort on the guides, it's good to share knowledge

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Ok, one issue. It feels like it's been longer, but I remember ranting and raving when I found not Smoke Grenade was not auto hit in pve. But where do you get it was treated the same? SG finally got auto hit in pve and always has required a to hit check in pvp.

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Flash Arrow:

-->auto-hit pve (as of I7)
-->to-hit check pvp (left as normal)


Smoke Grenade:

-->auto-hit pve (as of patch/I8)
-->to-hit check pvp (left as normal)


This is why I say they were treated the "same" in a sense.


Both powers are virtually the SAME power now in technics (and even effects) thanks to it being made auto-hit in pve, and keeping with a to-hit check in pvp, which is the same thing they did to Flash Arrow in I7.

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Ok, it's been one issue, but it was a quite awhile ago. But where the hell do you get to hit check in pvp?

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Nevermind, I found my answer. Smoke Grenade "will" indeed be treated the same way in pvp as Flash Arrow. In pve, SG will now be auto-hit, but in pvp, it will still require a to-hit check......just like Flash Arrow. Unfortunate to be honest....but at least we have TD.


_Castle_

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Apparently, I forgot to write up a patch note on this...mea culpa.

The -Perception portion of Smoke Grenade for Devices is now auto-hit in PVE. The To Hit Debuff and PvP segments of the power still require a 'To Hit' check.

EDIT: There was also a slight change to Cloaking Device which should help with the SG breaking Stealth a bit. Experiment with it some and let me know what you think.

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Oh wells..

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No, Smoke and Flash Arrow have both been auto hit in pve for the last few issues. In pvp it requires a to hit check.

Smoke Grenade just finally got the same love.

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Again, wrong.


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06.06.06

Issue 7 - Destiny Manifest

Combined (CoH and CoV)

...

Several changes have been made to the Defender, Controller and Mastermind Trick Arrow sets:

-Added 0.1 Slow effect to Entangling Arrow.
-Changed Flash Arrow to Auto Hit in PvE. In PvP, a to hit check is still required.
-Glue Arrow recharge time cut by 50% to 60 seconds.
-Glue Arrow now has a -Fly component.
-Disruption Arrow recharge time cut by 50% to 60 seconds.

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As you can clearly see, it's only been auto-hit in pve since I7. I know, because I was pushing for it to be auto-hit in I6. So, it's not unlikely that Smoke Grenade could be treated the same, and remain with a "to-hit check" in pvp.