Dark One

Forgot about Jim. I was thinking Donna (the twins' mom), Amy, and the unnameable. That makes four before Herschel's place and they weren't exactly a big group.

Ya, talking about her. They wasted half the damn second season dealing with how she was to get John to love her or some stupid **** and then she kills herself. I think she was a big part of what killed that show.

There were three that I can remember offhand before they got to Herschel's.

But you are right about the space thing. It's not like Sarah Connor Chronicles where they waste half a season on an utterly useless meatsack only to kill her off.

There were only a few deaths in the comics that had any weight to 'em to begin with. And that was only by the time it got to volume 5 or 6 of the TPBs. Most of the people were simply redshirts, which is what you are going to need for a zombie show.

(IMO)

You take that back!

*throws chair*

Do you really think with zombies around, i.e. the smell of death, that that buck wouldn't be spooked to holy hell and back?

And do you really think that area hasn't been hunted regularly? The show takes place in Georgia. A State with deer hunting seasons. Presuming they are still in Georgia, of course. And that area was pretty good for archery hunting, at the very least.

Edit - I'm willing to accept that larger specimens would show less fear. After all, if the buck can turn him into gooey paste, the little human isn't much of a threat, so not a reason to run. The closest I've come to a wild buck (or at least a buck that has become used to our scent and willing to enter our garden) is about 10 feet and that was only because I was in a tree blind above said animal.

Portable emergency generator? Wind generator? Solar cells?

/headdesk again

What are you going to do? Apply pressure to six individual holes that are clustered together or apply pressure to the area of the injury?

And no, there was not "one wound". There were multiple holes. If you look at the scene where the extraction takes place, there are at least two other darker patches than the spot that he pulled the fragment from.

He did not say for certain that there were six fragments. He spent approximately 10-15 seconds looking at the entry spot. How long do you need to count to six? The closest he comes to saying it is, "One down. Five to go." when he pulls the first bit out.

*******, but you are going to long distances to avoid saying, "I was ******* wrong.".

You do know that when blood soaks into a bandage, it tends to make for a wider area, right? When Rick gives Carl the first transfusion, there are clearly two darker patches on the bandage (a long one and a satellite wound) with blood soak around. Later on, that same bandage is more soaked so it's obscuring the extra spots. We don't actually see the underside of the bandage, only the top.

YOU are the one calling it absolute fact. He is the one basing his statements on the earlier presumption that he counted six fragments and/or entry wounds.

He knows there's at least one more in there, given the fact that Carl is, you know, bleeding internally.

They only don't "add up" to you.

What part of "I count six" is in any way a definitive statement? I could count a dozen zombies in a herd, but that doesn't mean I can't have missed a few hiding behind a car or crawling along.

If the deer is looking at something, then there's a decent chance that there is something there. If there is something there, then it behooves Otis to look for it. If only to make sure that there isn't a zombie there that'll get his fat *** when he goes down to get the deer.

It might not be a kid, it might not be a zombie, but something, maybe a mountain lion. Maybe a squirrel. But it takes little effort and time to make sure.

Is it possible that he truly couldn't see him? *shrug* It's possible, but not probable. He had a clear enough line of sight to drop a deer in its tracks with a single shot, and a clear enough line of sight to see Carl on the ground ("I didn't see him till he was on the ground), but not able to see him ten feet from a deer when Otis is potentially on higher ground?



In other words...LET IT GO. This is not the first time that you've done this, iirc. Better yet, stop watching the show since it apparently bothers you so much.

The zombie apocalypse isn't that old in the show. It's not like he's went through season after season of hunting and built up new habits.

I know that for me, the first rule (checking load status) is pretty much an automatic response when handed a weapon. I've been doing it for 20 years. I don't even have to think about, "Do I need to check to see if it's loaded?" anymore. That response is not going to disappear over night, nor should it. Same should go for the other good hunter responses.

/headdesk

Are you purposely trying to be obtuse and arguing for the sake of arguing?

He has a fair idea of what he is expecting based on the evidence presented to him. He is planning for the possibility of more than that, but expects at least that many. He is getting the equipment so that he can cut Carl open and root around in there. If he finds more, he'll deal with it.

Once again, YOU are the one stressing that six is the exact number. Herschel said that six is what he counted. Not that there is only six. Just that he counted six.

There was no underbrush around Carl's legs. He was in a semi-clearing. There was a bush to his left. If Otis was on top of a hill, then that is even less of an argument for him not seeing Carl. Even more so when you consider that there were two additional people behind Carl, one of which was wearing a bright shiny cop badge.

The deer saw Carl. If Otis had been paying attention, he would've seen that something attracted the deer's attention. Pan up a little and try to see what caused the deer to turn his head. As some are saying, that he would've been in a hurry since he's in a forest of the undead, it would make even less sense to not see if the deer is starting to get spooked by a walker. Since even if Otis would've shot the deer, he wouldn't have been able to get it gutted and carried out.

If you have a number of entry wounds, you can make the assumption that there is at least that many fragments. You give the relatives an idea of what you are going up against and the confidence that you can manage. You don't say, "Hell, I don't know what's going on. There could be eight bajillion pieces in him.". The idea is to calm the parents/relatives/bystanders.

Making Rick extra nervous and on edge by saying there could potentially be 20 pieces or whatever in him, when you don't know if there are more than the entry wounds, is not going to help matters in the slightest. You state what you can with a degree of certainty.

It's not a matter of guessing that a bullet can break up, it's a matter of knowing that bullets do in fact break up. Lead bullets mushroom upon impact with soft tissue. It's what they are designed to do to maximize damage to the target. Now, that bullet goes through a rib? Hell ya, there's a good chance that thing broke up on exit.

I never said it couldn't. Hunting accidents happen all the time. What I find issue with is the setup for the accident in this case.

Had the show stuck to the comic, I wouldn't have any quibble with Carl getting shot by Otis because it would make sense.

And there's other rationales that says it's an idiot setup to get Carl to the farm. A set up that didn't really add anything substantial to the show.

The very most basic thing that it ignores is the fact that wild deer will not generally allow people to get that close to them, especially when the deer is staring right at you and you continue to close with them. I can't even get that close to deer that come up into my yard to eat my grapes and apples. I can get maybe 50 feet from them before they bolt.

The bullet comes out of the deer's chest and hits Carl straight on in the side. It wasn't a glancing impact and didn't appear to enter at an angle. Ergo, Otis presumably fired at a right angle to the deer.

Now, it could've bounced inside the deer and ricocheted out. That's a possiblity. But if you're shooting at an oblique angle, say Otis shooting from behind and to the left (of the deer's facing), you stand a decent chance of hitting the intestines and stomach, rather than a shot that'll drop the deer in its tracks. Hitting that will spill those contents into the deer's carcass. Carl could've been hidden by that bush to his left. However, that shot was placed good enough to drop the deer in its tracks.

He said, "I count six fragments." in the same discussion that he says it didn't go through clean. He's basing that off of, presumably, the number of entry wounds. You're the one stressing six. The doc pulled out the shallowest of the ones. That's why he wanted them to go get the equipment so he could cut Carl open and find out exactly what happened.

If Otis was using a lead bullet, those things mushroom on impact with soft tissue. It could easily have broken up on the way out. A full metal jacketed round would simply have passed through the deer.

Considering that I've been hunting since I was sixteen and shooting for a couple years prior to that?

Saying the kid was obscured when he clearly wasn't is a bit of a stretch. The only way Otis could've legitimately missed seeing Carl was if he was in a hurry and not taking the time to do what good hunters do.

Uh, no. Comparing the amount of coverage of the camo t-shirt, which was mostly covered hence not very visible, versus the amount of coverage of the reddish-brown shirt and very visible blue jeans.

Tricky lighting? The boy was standing in direct sunlight at one point. It's not like it was twilight with shadows playing tricks.

It was not Otis saying that it didn't go through clean. Otis thought it went through clean. Herschel, the doctor, is the one saying it didn't go through clean.

Read it through again. I mention Otis, then Herschel, then state He. Why are you thinking "He" references Otis, rather than the most recent name?

And if the doctor is examining the boy and sees multiple entry wounds, it's a fair bet that the bullet didn't go through the deer clean. If there's six entry wounds, then there's at least six bullet fragments. It's not rocket science.

You're not having a hard time. You're flat out denying anything of the sort.

He was wearing reddish-brown overshirt + blue jeans in an area that was majority green. He was also sporting pale, pasty skin in an open area with sunlight shining on him. The camo t-shirt was not very visible.

None of that screams low visibility.

And yes, Carl gets shot in the comics. His shooting there is much more forgivable given that Otis thought (apparently) that they were zombies and there was no deer.

I just watched it.

Otis says it went "clean through the deer". Herschel says that probably saved Carl's life because it slowed the bullet down. He also says, "But it did not go through clean [meaning that it was broken up on its passage through the deer]. It broke up into pieces.".

Yes, it does happen. In situations such as someone's been drinkin', or someone turns to far on a pheasant hunt and pops his buddy, or some fool forgets to wear blaze orange during rifle season.

Were you using a scoped rifle? Which is what I seem to recall him having. He couldn't have been very far away given the amount of brush and cover he was shooting through.

Nevermind that Carl was far closer than a buck that size would allow. Especially considering the amount of dead person stench that is in that area. That deer should be fairly spooked at anything moving. I know that I've only been able to get that distance to a semi-wild deer when it couldn't see me. Getting closer than 20 feet-ish while it's looking at you?

Now, if there had been no deer and Otis thought Carl was a zombie? Could totally buy that explanation.

I do not recall him saying that it broke up inside him. Just that it broke up. Which again, there appeared to be several holes on Carl, though that could've just been blood spatter.

It should be an automatic reflex. Not something you need to think about doing. Otis looks like a person who has hunted a lot. It should be second nature to him.